The Norf

[.Kodiak]

Tomlin is 8-11 in the playoffs and only won playoff games in 4 of 19 seasons.

And he owes that 1-1 SB record and 5 of those playoff wins entirely to Cowher's coaches and players.

31 other teams would have fired Tomlin years ago. And then there are the Pittsburgh Steelers.

[Deebo]

Noll almost willed a Bubby Brister / Merril Hoge led Steelers team to a playoff win against a much better Broncos team

89 team, Jan 90 playoff game

This dumbass could never pull something like that off

Except he too, almost did....against the eventual SB champs Broncos in 2015....minus AB.

Now we're dealing with "almosts"?
How far the bar has been lowered

[swissvale72]

Noll almost willed a Bubby Brister / Merril Hoge led Steelers team to a playoff win against a much better Broncos team

89 team, Jan 90 playoff game

This dumbass could never pull something like that off

Except he too, almost did....against the eventual SB champs Broncos in 2015....minus AB.

Now we're dealing with "almosts"?
How far the bar has been lowered

"Almost" was first invoked with the 89 playoff game in Denver. Just keeping it fair.

[955876]

Well, we are “almost” going to win the Super Bowl this year.

Now we will fall several games short. But we will “almost” be there.

Swiss/Texas Black in Gold, you can pop the champagne now.

[swissvale72]

Well, we are “almost” going to win the Super Bowl this year.

Now we will fall several games short. But we will “almost” be there.

Swiss/Texas Black in Gold, you can pop the champagne now.

Once again, you can't fucking read. It was not I who first introduced the almost standard. Also, no one, no one is suggesting that Tomlin rivals Noll as a coach. The point is that in nolls final seven seasons he twice posted records of seven and nine once he was six and 10 and once five and 11. Yet nobody was rooting for Steeler losses during that time. That is the comparison.

[CKSteeler]

Get some fat drunk yinzers on a message board in the '80's where they can piss and moan about the state of the team and that may have been different, Swiss.

[Deebo]

Except he too, almost did....against the eventual SB champs Broncos in 2015....minus AB.

Now we're dealing with "almosts"?
How far the bar has been lowered

"Almost" was first invoked with the 89 playoff game in Denver. Just keeping it fair.

Gotcha.

But I think the 2015 team was much more talented (esp at the QB position) vs that 89 team. So there's a level of expectation there.

[anpsteel]

Biiiiiigggggg difference between that team and this one.

Care to guess what that is?

Sure there's a big difference. And some segments thought it was a joke that that team who started out 0-2, outscored 91-10, had made the playoffs. But like now, can't win if you dont play.

It’s kind of cute that you still think this team, as it’s currently constructed & coached, is capable of winning in the postseason.

I’ll take a Noll coached team that started 0-2 vs a Jibba Jabber coached team that started 11-0.

If you adjusted the offensive and defensive lines for weight variance between eras

I take the 89 team 7 out of 10 times

[.Kodiak]

The point is that in nolls final seven seasons he twice posted records of seven and nine once he was six and 10 and once five and 11. Yet nobody was rooting for Steeler losses during that time. That is the comparison.

The point is people still believed Noll could win playoff games.

Tomlin is plain fucking average year after year after year after year in a league that is DESIGNED to make teams average and games a coin flip. Tomlin's single greatest achievement is convincing people NHALS is an actual achievement.

[anpsteel]

Well, we are “almost” going to win the Super Bowl this year.

Now we will fall several games short. But we will “almost” be there.

Swiss/Texas Black in Gold, you can pop the champagne now.

Once again, you can't fucking read. It was not I who first introduced the almost standard. Also, no one, no one is suggesting that Tomlin rivals Noll as a coach. The point is that in nolls final seven seasons he twice posted records of seven and nine once he was six and 10 and once five and 11. Yet nobody was rooting for Steeler losses during that time. That is the comparison.

1 that was before free agency became what it is today so the team was old and aging fast

2 Chuck Noll, along with all of the Hall of Fame players they drafted turned this team around from a perennial loser to a four-time Super Bowl champion and perennial playoff winning team.

That holds a lot more credit than winning one Super Bowl with another coaches players and coaching staff, 17 years ago


If you cannot reconcile those two points as being the differentiation between Noll and Tomlin, I don’t know what to tell you

[swissvale72]

Get some fat drunk yinzers on a message board in the '80's where they can piss and moan about the state of the team and that may have been different, Swiss.

Prob true....lol

[955876]

Well, we are “almost” going to win the Super Bowl this year.

Now we will fall several games short. But we will “almost” be there.

Swiss/Texas Black in Gold, you can pop the champagne now.

Once again, you can't fucking read. It was not I who first introduced the almost standard. Also, no one, no one is suggesting that Tomlin rivals Noll as a coach. The point is that in nolls final seven seasons he twice posted records of seven and nine once he was six and 10 and once five and 11. Yet nobody was rooting for Steeler losses during that time. That is the comparison.

Your comparison is dumb and lacks let’s call em the ummmm “details”.

Their sitaluarions are not the same. Noll’s last few years while meager still better than Jibba’s 8 years without a victory. Noll only went 4.

That isn’t even considering what Noll built and accomplished vs Jibba’s meager resume of benefitting from someone else’s work.

Take away Jibba’s first few years when he had Lebeau, Arians, and a shit ton of Cowher’s players and culture and Jibbs is left with a career that looks awful.

Aside from the NHALS bullshit.

There is no universe where you can say with a straight face “ya but Noll”….

The calls for Jibbs to be fired and people wanting losses so that happens is not in the same universe as Noll’s situation at the end.

So just stop with the “nobody was doing X when Noll was around” nonsense.

Because that’s what it is. Nonsense.

[swissvale72]

Well, we are “almost” going to win the Super Bowl this year.

Now we will fall several games short. But we will “almost” be there.

Swiss/Texas Black in Gold, you can pop the champagne now.

Once again, you can't fucking read. It was not I who first introduced the almost standard. Also, no one, no one is suggesting that Tomlin rivals Noll as a coach. The point is that in nolls final seven seasons he twice posted records of seven and nine once he was six and 10 and once five and 11. Yet nobody was rooting for Steeler losses during that time. That is the comparison.

Your comparison is dumb and lacks let’s call em the ummmm “details”.

Their sitaluarions are not the same. Noll’s last few years while meager still better than Jibba’s 8 years without a victory. Noll only went 4.

That isn’t even considering what Noll built and accomplished vs Jibba’s meager resume of benefitting from someone else’s work.

Take away Jibba’s first few years when he had Lebeau, Arians, and a shit ton of Cowher’s players and culture and Jibbs is left with a career that looks awful.

Aside from the NHALS bullshit.

There is no universe where you can say with a straight face “ya but Noll”….

The calls for Jibbs to be fired and people wanting losses so that happens is not in the same universe as Noll’s situation at the end.

So just stop with the “nobody was doing X when Noll was around” nonsense.

Because that’s what it is. Nonsense.

And as per usual, your illiterate ass is missing the point. Unlike you and the other assembled asshats herein, I'm in no way comparing Tomlin to Noll insofar as coaching acumen. There's obviously now comparison and as one who witnessed Noll's very first game as Steelers coach and followed the team throughout his tenure, I know this better than anybody.

What morons like you fail to grasp is that the ONLY point I'm making is regarding the proclivity of a wide swath of you supposed Steeler fans to root for Steeler losses. My point being that despite some VERY lean years in the 80s, NOBODY was rooting for Steeler losses

[Dan Smith--BYU]

"My point being that despite some VERY lean years in the 80s, NOBODY was rooting for Steeler losses"

That's because the Steelers were only 5-10 years removed from the last title, not 17. And Noll had decent years in '82 '83 '84 with subpar talent.

The 80s decline involved a set of forgivable situations that fans understood. The great talents of Brad, Greene, Lambert, Swann, Harris in age and injury related decline, and the tragedy of Gabe Rivera (who IMHO would have been a great NFL lineman).

The number one complaint and justified against Noll was the Marino fiasco. The second complaint was not adapting to new trends including the WCO.

If somehow Mark Malone performed at Ben levels and Noll would have wasted that then you have a different story.

Tomlin took a great team, wasted the three Bs great years and never improved on the team at all after the very lucky SB win.

Still Noll was graciously shown the exit door by 1991, which according to the same timeline would have been 2020 for Katenji Pettaway X, twelve years after the last SB.

[anpsteel]

Once again, you can't fucking read. It was not I who first introduced the almost standard. Also, no one, no one is suggesting that Tomlin rivals Noll as a coach. The point is that in nolls final seven seasons he twice posted records of seven and nine once he was six and 10 and once five and 11. Yet nobody was rooting for Steeler losses during that time. That is the comparison.

Your comparison is dumb and lacks let’s call em the ummmm “details”.

Their sitaluarions are not the same. Noll’s last few years while meager still better than Jibba’s 8 years without a victory. Noll only went 4.

That isn’t even considering what Noll built and accomplished vs Jibba’s meager resume of benefitting from someone else’s work.

Take away Jibba’s first few years when he had Lebeau, Arians, and a shit ton of Cowher’s players and culture and Jibbs is left with a career that looks awful.

Aside from the NHALS bullshit.

There is no universe where you can say with a straight face “ya but Noll”….

The calls for Jibbs to be fired and people wanting losses so that happens is not in the same universe as Noll’s situation at the end.

So just stop with the “nobody was doing X when Noll was around” nonsense.

Because that’s what it is. Nonsense.

And as per usual, your illiterate ass is missing the point. Unlike you and the other assembled asshats herein, I'm in no way comparing Tomlin to Noll insofar as coaching acumen. There's obviously now comparison and as one who witnessed Noll's very first game as Steelers coach and followed the team throughout his tenure, I know this better than anybody.

What morons like you fail to grasp is that the ONLY point I'm making is regarding the proclivity of a wide swath of you supposed Steeler fans to root for Steeler losses. My point being that despite some VERY lean years in the 80s, NOBODY was rooting for Steeler losses

Nobody was rooting for losses, because

a. IF they were in the playoffs- Noll's teams were not going to be out coached. They might be out played- but Noll would put them in the best position to win.

b. Noll still had a lot of built up credit with the fans. Even given that credit, they still were getting antsy with the team's performance.

c. The entire purpose of people booing, routing for losses, and wanting Tomlin fired, are because he's far outlasted the credit built up as result of his coaching performance.

Noll was not at that point- and Dan was actively reeling in Noll. Forcing him to make staff changes and possibly other control mechanisms- until he stepped down.

AR2 on the other hand is part of the problem - and everyone knows- the only way to get him to take action is string of losses and/or empty stands.

That is why we people are actively routing against Tomlin and indirectly hoping for losses.

[Dan Smith--BYU]

I would also point out that in '98-'99 people were rooting for losses and that was peak Kill/Lynch/Fuck Cowher era. In '03 people were rooting for losses whcih was the right call considering the round one result in the '04 draft.

[Steelperch]

I would also point out that in '98-'99 people were rooting for losses and that was peak Kill/Lynch/Fuck Cowher era. In '03 people were rooting for losses whcih was the right call considering the round one result in the '04 draft.

Had we not gone 6-10 that year we never draft Ben and Swiss is still singing “one for the thumb” nearly 50 years after the last title. .

[swissvale72]

Your comparison is dumb and lacks let’s call em the ummmm “details”.

Their sitaluarions are not the same. Noll’s last few years while meager still better than Jibba’s 8 years without a victory. Noll only went 4.

That isn’t even considering what Noll built and accomplished vs Jibba’s meager resume of benefitting from someone else’s work.

Take away Jibba’s first few years when he had Lebeau, Arians, and a shit ton of Cowher’s players and culture and Jibbs is left with a career that looks awful.

Aside from the NHALS bullshit.

There is no universe where you can say with a straight face “ya but Noll”….

The calls for Jibbs to be fired and people wanting losses so that happens is not in the same universe as Noll’s situation at the end.

So just stop with the “nobody was doing X when Noll was around” nonsense.

Because that’s what it is. Nonsense.

And as per usual, your illiterate ass is missing the point. Unlike you and the other assembled asshats herein, I'm in no way comparing Tomlin to Noll insofar as coaching acumen. There's obviously now comparison and as one who witnessed Noll's very first game as Steelers coach and followed the team throughout his tenure, I know this better than anybody.

What morons like you fail to grasp is that the ONLY point I'm making is regarding the proclivity of a wide swath of you supposed Steeler fans to root for Steeler losses. My point being that despite some VERY lean years in the 80s, NOBODY was rooting for Steeler losses

Nobody was rooting for losses, because

a. IF they were in the playoffs- Noll's teams were not going to be out coached. They might be out played- but Noll would put them in the best position to win.

b. Noll still had a lot of built up credit with the fans. Even given that credit, they still were getting antsy with the team's performance.

c. The entire purpose of people booing, routing for losses, and wanting Tomlin fired, are because he's far outlasted the credit built up as result of his coaching performance.

Noll was not at that point- and Dan was actively reeling in Noll. Forcing him to make staff changes and possibly other control mechanisms- until he stepped down.

AR2 on the other hand is part of the problem - and everyone knows- the only way to get him to take action is string of losses and/or empty stands.

That is why we people are actively routing against Tomlin and indirectly hoping for losses.

Noll's 5-11 '88 team was hardly in danger of making the playoffs, yet the fandom was rooting hard for a late season sunday night win in Houston over the heavily favored oilers That was considered more important than moving up one or two draft positions.

[anpsteel]

And as per usual, your illiterate ass is missing the point. Unlike you and the other assembled asshats herein, I'm in no way comparing Tomlin to Noll insofar as coaching acumen. There's obviously now comparison and as one who witnessed Noll's very first game as Steelers coach and followed the team throughout his tenure, I know this better than anybody.

What morons like you fail to grasp is that the ONLY point I'm making is regarding the proclivity of a wide swath of you supposed Steeler fans to root for Steeler losses. My point being that despite some VERY lean years in the 80s, NOBODY was rooting for Steeler losses

Nobody was rooting for losses, because

a. IF they were in the playoffs- Noll's teams were not going to be out coached. They might be out played- but Noll would put them in the best position to win.

b. Noll still had a lot of built up credit with the fans. Even given that credit, they still were getting antsy with the team's performance.

c. The entire purpose of people booing, routing for losses, and wanting Tomlin fired, are because he's far outlasted the credit built up as result of his coaching performance.

Noll was not at that point- and Dan was actively reeling in Noll. Forcing him to make staff changes and possibly other control mechanisms- until he stepped down.

AR2 on the other hand is part of the problem - and everyone knows- the only way to get him to take action is string of losses and/or empty stands.

That is why we people are actively routing against Tomlin and indirectly hoping for losses.

Noll's 5-11 '88 team was hardly in danger of making the playoffs, yet the fandom was rooting hard for a late season sunday night win in Houston over the heavily favored oilers That was considered more important than moving up one or two draft positions.

Swiss-

I'm not trying to be a jerk toward you, but you are wildly missing the point

Current ownership is clearly waaay too passive to do anything about the poor performance of the current HC.

The fans, having very limited ability to influence this decision making process, are doing the only thing they can-

In the face of a coach who now has the longest drought between super bowl wins. The longest drought between super bowl appearances. The longest drought in play off wins

All of these aspects are why the fans are doing the only thing they can. The only thing that will get Art's attention.

Booing
Not showing to games
Generally disgruntled and hoping for losses - to hopefully expedite the removal of the problem. Namely Tomlin.

Of course, the team would be better served if both Tomlin and Art 2 left- but that's an entirely different level disgruntlement

[Dan Smith--BYU]

'88 was 9 years removed from a title and the man had goodwill that Pettaway X can only imagine in his fever dreams.

'88 on the Katenji Shades timeline would be 2017 so we are long past the expiration date on this curdled egg nog.

[955876]

What morons like you fail to grasp is that the ONLY point I'm making is regarding the proclivity of a wide swath of you supposed Steeler fans to root for Steeler losses. My point being that despite some VERY lean years in the 80s, NOBODY was rooting for Steeler losses

The one not grasping this is you doh doh.

I understand your argument. I KEEP pointing out that Noll’s “lean years” totaled 4 while we are now at 8 and counting with Jibba.

I also pointed out the why Noll would have more leeway. But even without that leeway Jibbs has now doubled Noll’s “lean years”.

THAT, plus a myriad of other factors is why people are rooting for losses because they want this fraud gone.

What part of that are you not understanding?

Nevermind, we’ve been down this street before. You are going to play dumb or obtuse or whatever and act like it’s others that don’t understand when it’s you that made a bad comparison which was shot down at which point you think it’s us/me that doesn’t understand your point.

I get your point. Noll had lean years and yet nobody rooted for losses. Got it.

I explained why there is a difference. Can’t help you if you are not able to connect these dots (make 1+1=2) on your own from here.

[Dan Smith--BYU]

'84 AND '89 were major overachievements with untalented teams. The Malone '84 Steelers had no business being on the same field as the Dolphins and would have gotten destroyed in the playoffs by the Niners and Bears of that era (yeah I know SF one loss that year was to the Steelers for which Noll deserves much credit).

Go to 1:20 and listen to Andy Russell on the detailed instruction. This is unimaginable with Pettaway X:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7L4TXx2ura0

“My job is to teach you how to play this game correctly. I will never give you a motivational speech; if I have to motivate you, I will fire you.”

That is the single greatest quote that any coach has ever delivered.

And then the one time he found an actual need for a motivational speech, v Raiders in '74 he made it count.

[anpsteel]

'84 AND '89 were major overachievements with untalented teams. The Malone '84 Steelers had no business being on the same field as the Dolphins and would have gotten destroyed in the playoffs by the Niners and Bears of that era (yeah I know SF one loss that year was to the Steelers for which Noll deserves much credit).

Go to 1:20 and listen to Andy Russell on the detailed instruction. This is unimaginable with Pettaway X:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7L4TXx2ura0

IIRC, that win against the niners was during the strike-

*I think

But still the only loss for San Fran that season

[Deebo]

"My point being that despite some VERY lean years in the 80s, NOBODY was rooting for Steeler losses"

That's because the Steelers were only 5-10 years removed from the last title, not 17. And Noll had decent years in '82 '83 '84 with subpar talent.

The 80s decline involved a set of forgivable situations that fans understood. The great talents of Brad, Greene, Lambert, Swann, Harris in age and injury related decline, and the tragedy of Gabe Rivera (who IMHO would have been a great NFL lineman).

The number one complaint and justified against Noll was the Marino fiasco. The second complaint was not adapting to new trends including the WCO.

If somehow Mark Malone performed at Ben levels and Noll would have wasted that then you have a different story.

Tomlin took a great team, wasted the three Bs great years and never improved on the team at all after the very lucky SB win.

Still Noll was graciously shown the exit door by 1991, which according to the same timeline would have been 2020 for Katenji Pettaway X, twelve years after the last SB.

Well said.

Noll had equity with what he accomplished.
WTF is Tomlin's resume? A SB. SB appearance and an AFCCG in 19 years.

Whoopy fuckin do.
I wish what happened to Moore would have happened to Tomlin.

[swissvale72]

"My point being that despite some VERY lean years in the 80s, NOBODY was rooting for Steeler losses"

That's because the Steelers were only 5-10 years removed from the last title, not 17. And Noll had decent years in '82 '83 '84 with subpar talent.

The 80s decline involved a set of forgivable situations that fans understood. The great talents of Brad, Greene, Lambert, Swann, Harris in age and injury related decline, and the tragedy of Gabe Rivera (who IMHO would have been a great NFL lineman).

The number one complaint and justified against Noll was the Marino fiasco. The second complaint was not adapting to new trends including the WCO.

If somehow Mark Malone performed at Ben levels and Noll would have wasted that then you have a different story.

Tomlin took a great team, wasted the three Bs great years and never improved on the team at all after the very lucky SB win.

Still Noll was graciously shown the exit door by 1991, which according to the same timeline would have been 2020 for Katenji Pettaway X, twelve years after the last SB.

Well said.

Noll had equity with what he accomplished.
WTF is Tomlin's resume? A SB. SB appearance and an AFCCG in 19 years.

Whoopy fuckin do.
I wish what happened to Moore would have happened to Tomlin.

Okay, so let's root for losses even though it's about that Tomlin's getting extended this spring.

[955876]

The reason folks are booing is so that the Dumb Dullard Art II wakes his ass up and doesn’t extend him.

If he does, well, he’s dumber than we thought.

Mike Tomlin can’t win here unless he makes major changes that will require him to take a deep look into the mirror.

But then, a leopard can’t change its spots.

[Deebo]

"My point being that despite some VERY lean years in the 80s, NOBODY was rooting for Steeler losses"

That's because the Steelers were only 5-10 years removed from the last title, not 17. And Noll had decent years in '82 '83 '84 with subpar talent.

The 80s decline involved a set of forgivable situations that fans understood. The great talents of Brad, Greene, Lambert, Swann, Harris in age and injury related decline, and the tragedy of Gabe Rivera (who IMHO would have been a great NFL lineman).

The number one complaint and justified against Noll was the Marino fiasco. The second complaint was not adapting to new trends including the WCO.

If somehow Mark Malone performed at Ben levels and Noll would have wasted that then you have a different story.

Tomlin took a great team, wasted the three Bs great years and never improved on the team at all after the very lucky SB win.

Still Noll was graciously shown the exit door by 1991, which according to the same timeline would have been 2020 for Katenji Pettaway X, twelve years after the last SB.

Well said.

Noll had equity with what he accomplished.
WTF is Tomlin's resume? A SB. SB appearance and an AFCCG in 19 years.

Whoopy fuckin do.
I wish what happened to Moore would have happened to Tomlin.

Okay, so let's root for losses even though it's about that Tomlin's getting extended this spring.

You never know.
I thought Sullivan would never get canned bc he's a Boston boy and FSG owns the team. But they mutually parted ways after it became untenable on both sides.

Gotta hope and pray the same befalls Tomlin

[.Kodiak]

I remember back in 2016 I said you had to go back to before 1972 to find a longer streak than 5 seasons without a playoff win, droughts both Noll and Cowher endured. And Tomlin got that win, thanks to a historical meltdown by the Bungles led by 0-8 Marvin Lewis (the symmetry here is just astounding).

And two years later Tomlin started his new streak at 9 and counting. He is the greatest coat-tail rider in history.

[MJG75]

At the risk of drawing the ire of the haters who increasingly populate this esteemed website, here's SBI for remaining weeks, hopefully allowing Steelers to clinch the Norf in advance of the finale versus Ravens.

-Root like hell for Bengals to beat Ravens on Sunday!! This is a bigger SBI game than the Steelers Monday nighter. Too bad that Tee Higgins is once again in concussion protocol.

-Should Bengals beat Ravens, Steelers would clinch the Norf in advance of the finalev by beating Browns in Cleveland and either winning one more game (Miami, at Detroit) or Ravens losing one more (New England, at Green Bay).

Should Ravens beat Cinci, but lose next two, Steelers would win norf if beating both Miami and Cleveland.

I think all that's right. At any rate, ravens loss at cinci, Steelers win in Cleveland means Steelers win tie breaker of division record.

Steelers should win common game tiebreaker with win against Miami and ravens losses to pats and packers.

Sooo.... GO Steelers and fuck all you haters once again!!! Steelerhaters.com !!

Love ya, Swiss! The last few years have been some of the most unlikeable teams in my lifetime, with this year's version one of the most. And, like you, I was around for some of the pre-Noll years. So it is tougher to get overly excited about a team of players and coaches i mostly dislike, but I bleed Black and Gold until the day I am gone. I root hard for the colors, the uniform, the tradition, and...some of the players. Always do or die! Let's go kick ass at home on MNF!! Make it 23 in a row!

[lifelongsteel]

The math is easy for me.

Still alive = root for wins
Eliminated = root for losses

I've been captured by the gravitational pull of NHALS