Red Zone Play Calling

[lifelongsteel]

They'll be calling the same plays in the regular season, kids. Don't get your hopes up.

The fuckin' fellowship of the miserable. Fuckin' B2B and Jeemie.

[Legacy User]

The last 2-3 pages of this thread are hard to read

Play calling is dumbed down tenfold in the preseason intentionally

[Mick]

The last 2-3 pages of this thread are hard to read

Play calling is dumbed down tenfold in the preseason intentionally

Then please explain to me why elite teams like san fran and new england are lighting up scoreboards like christmas trees.

[Obviously]

The last 2-3 pages of this thread are hard to read

Play calling is dumbed down tenfold in the preseason intentionally

Then please explain to me why elite teams like san fran and new england are lighting up scoreboards like christmas trees.

/sarco

[jeemie]

They'll be calling the same plays in the regular season, kids. Don't get your hopes up.

The fuckin' fellowship of the miserable. Fuckin' B2B and Jeemie.

Not misrerable...a realist.

Oh...wait...perhaps this is better?

Archer is the REAL DEAL.

Wheaton's a WEAPON!!!

Heath and Spaeth are BACK, BABY!!!

Bell is a DOUBLE THREAT!!!!

[Obviously]

They'll be calling the same plays in the regular season, kids. Don't get your hopes up.

The fuckin' fellowship of the miserable. Fuckin' B2B and Jeemie.

Not misrerable...a realist.

Oh...wait...perhaps this is better?

Archer is the REAL DEAL.

Wheaton's a WEAPON!!!

Heath and Spaeth are BACK, BABY!!!

Bell is a DOUBLE THREAT!!!!

Yeah, that's what I meant.

[jeemie]

Yeah, that's what I meant.

Haley has provided ample evidence over two years here that he's a twat.

Why should I give him the benefit of the doubt?

As B2B said...watch other offenses in this league.

Watch even those teams that have young QBs and try to protect them with simplified play-calling.

Those offenses look like an advanced quantum mechanics course compared to Haley's "Stay within the lines when you draw" offense.

[Legacy User]

They'll be calling the same plays in the regular season, kids. Don't get your hopes up.

The fuckin' fellowship of the miserable. Fuckin' B2B and Jeemie.

Holy fuck isn't that the truth

[steelclan]

They'll be calling the same plays in the regular season, kids. Don't get your hopes up.

The fuckin' fellowship of the miserable. Fuckin' B2B and Jeemie.

Not misrerable...a realist.

Oh...wait...perhaps this is better?

Archer is the REAL DEAL.

Wheaton's a WEAPON!!!

Heath and Spaeth are BACK, BABY!!!

Bell is a DOUBLE THREAT!!!!

Ok then refute what I listed on previous page. How can PS if they suck so monumentally have produced a top ten scoring offense in the last 9 games of the season even taking away the Int returns? I am perfectly willing to concede not being in the least bit optimistic but not until you explain how the last 9 games were a reason to pine in the Fjords?

[bradshaw2ben]

clan, I think the pressure of the season was somewhat off, most of the teams they played either out and out sucked or at minimum had already given up on the season. Do I think they played a little better than they did in the miserable beginning of the season? Absolutely. My realistic expectation is: if they picked right up with the same guys they had at the end of the year, they'd be slightly above league average. I think they are set up to be worse in the red zone now, minus two red zone TD scorers and with a supposed refocus on the run game (which I think will hurt their efficiency). I look at it this way: what would this offense be without Ben? Hideous and unwatchable. With Ben they have the capability of being better than average.

[lifelongsteel]

clan, I think the pressure of the season was somewhat off, most of the teams they played either out and out sucked or at minimum had already given up on the season. Do I think they played a little better than they did in the miserable beginning of the season? Absolutely. My realistic expectation is: if they picked right up with the same guys they had at the end of the year, they'd be slightly above league average. I think they are set up to be worse in the red zone now, minus two red zone TD scorers and with a supposed refocus on the run game (which I think will hurt their efficiency). I look at it this way: what would this offense be without Ben? Hideous and unwatchable. With Ben they have the capability of being better than average.

Why do you worry about what the O would look like without Ben? What's the point?

[Legacy User]

Without Ben, we could spread the money we're paying Ben around to the rest of the team and have a better rest of the team, so I'm not subscribing to "when Ben retires this team will be a disaster." We might just revert to the 90's.

[V DUB]

clan, I think the pressure of the season was somewhat off, most of the teams they played either out and out sucked or at minimum had already given up on the season. Do I think they played a little better than they did in the miserable beginning of the season? Absolutely. My realistic expectation is: if they picked right up with the same guys they had at the end of the year, they'd be slightly above league average. I think they are set up to be worse in the red zone now, minus two red zone TD scorers and with a supposed refocus on the run game (which I think will hurt their efficiency). I look at it this way: what would this offense be without Ben? Hideous and unwatchable. With Ben they have the capability of being better than average.

That '08 offense was pretty hideous & unwatchable.

Ended with a SB...I'm good enough with it.

Before the response is the '08 D got us that ring, I expect this O will be more productive than that squad. Not saying it will result in a SB, but the core is in place to make a run, for the next few years.

[bradshaw2ben]

that 08 end of game drive featured a whole lot of attacking throws that we don't really do anymore

I focus on without Ben because I'm judging what the offense looks like-- the part that Haley designs and the way he schemes. I don't care so much about specific play calling, although I have no faith in his play calling either.

[steelclan]

that 08 end of game drive featured a whole lot of attacking throws that we don't really do anymore

I focus on without Ben because I'm judging what the offense looks like-- the part that Haley designs and the way he schemes. I don't care so much about specific play calling, although I have no faith in his play calling either.

It also featured Ben escaping a game ending sack.

[bradshaw2ben]

what's your point, clan? Would you rather give the offense a chance to make a great drive where Ben has to evade pressure and attacks the D (things he excels at) or have them attempt to draw play and bubble screen their way down the field in 2 minute drill?

They were good at doing that in 08 because they at least tried to do it as part of the primary offense. They were handicapped by an even worse OL than we have now.

[V DUB]

that 08 end of game drive featured a whole lot of attacking throws that we don't really do anymore

I focus on without Ben because I'm judging what the offense looks like-- the part that Haley designs and the way he schemes. I don't care so much about specific play calling, although I have no faith in his play calling either.

We still call those plays in 2-4 min offense, just like that SB. A SB which featured our current O coordinator calling plays that outscored our former O coordinator.

He'he's got his guys now, it's show me time.

[steelclan]

what's your point, clan? Would you rather give the offense a chance to make a great drive where Ben has to evade pressure and attacks the D (things he excels at) or have them attempt to draw play and bubble screen their way down the field in 2 minute drill?

They were good at doing that in 08 because they at least tried to do it as part of the primary offense. They were handicapped by an even worse OL than we have now.

Yes Im sure Haley would have called a draw, draw, draw game plan, but wait a minute who was that OC on the other side of the field calling plays that riddled big plays all over the vaunted 2008 defense?

[Legacy User]

I figure BR has 2 games max regular season that he is willing to immediately hit the smart read or check down on first and second down...or it's right back to the post bye week training wheels offense. They chose to keep Haley and the Oline in tact...the message is we are running an out in 3 or less passing game on first and second down or you aren't going to like our next contract offer.

[bradshaw2ben]

what's your point, clan? Would you rather give the offense a chance to make a great drive where Ben has to evade pressure and attacks the D (things he excels at) or have them attempt to draw play and bubble screen their way down the field in 2 minute drill?

They were good at doing that in 08 because they at least tried to do it as part of the primary offense. They were handicapped by an even worse OL than we have now.

Yes Im sure Haley would have called a draw, draw, draw game plan, but wait a minute who was that OC on the other side of the field calling plays that riddled big plays all over the vaunted 2008 defense?

wait, do you mean the OC who had a HOF QB and WR but didn't do jack shit for half the game, allowing the Steelers to hang around?

[Legacy User]

Eyeball this for the Haley game plan, the Oline, and why the ball has to be out in under 3 in this offense-

https://www.profootballfocus.com/blog/2014/06/16/qbs-in-focus-time-to-throw/

Might want to compare the BR and PM numbers on 3 to 3.5 and consider our routes and receivers. In the time to pressure in over 3.5 is pretty informative as well...

[bradshaw2ben]

I figure BR has 2 games max regular season that he is willing to immediately hit the smart read or check down on first and second down...or it's right back to the post bye week training wheels offense. They chose to keep Haley and the Oline in tact...the message is we are running an out in 3 or less passing game on first and second down or you aren't going to like our next contract offer.

the problem with this plan is that our WRs are not good enough to get immediate separation or be trusted to come down with the ball in the middle of the field AND our OL can't pass protect for more than a second-- that means our offense will do jack shit on first and second downs and then look to be bailed out by Houdini on 3rd down.

It's all tied together... the pass protection is an issue, the receivers are an issue, the play design is an issue, the QB's desire to make a play at all costs is an issue-- the overall plan for how to make this work is an issue. If you want Ben to make smart, effective throws on 1st and 2nd down, FIX THE DAMN O LINE and PASS PROTECTION.

Yes, effective running helps slow the rush-- but sometimes you just have to practice pass pro and getting open and making the connections in a situation that's not 7 on 7 or 1 on 1.

[Legacy User]

I figure BR has 2 games max regular season that he is willing to immediately hit the smart read or check down on first and second down...or it's right back to the post bye week training wheels offense. They chose to keep Haley and the Oline in tact...the message is we are running an out in 3 or less passing game on first and second down or you aren't going to like our next contract offer.

the problem with this plan is that our WRs are not good enough to get immediate separation or be trusted to come down with the ball in the middle of the field AND our OL can't pass protect for more than a second-- that means our offense will do jack shit on first and second downs and then look to be bailed out by Houdini on 3rd down.

It's all tied together... the pass protection is an issue, the receivers are an issue, the play design is an issue, the QB's desire to make a play at all costs is an issue-- the overall plan for how to make this work is an issue. If you want Ben to make smart, effective throws on 1st and 2nd down, FIX THE DAMN O LINE and PASS PROTECTION.

Yes, effective running helps slow the rush-- but sometimes you just have to practice pass pro and getting open and making the connections in a situation that's not 7 on 7 or 1 on 1.

I hear you to a large degree...check link. Believe me...I hate this fucking offense. But out under 3 on first and second down is the plan...and if BR holds it, it can't be a negative play or his leash tightens. He'll get a quick read on first and second down but he can't wait or it's back to bubble screen discipline....But out quick most of the time along with a hopefully better running game seems to be the first and second down plan imo.

[steelclan]

what's your point, clan? Would you rather give the offense a chance to make a great drive where Ben has to evade pressure and attacks the D (things he excels at) or have them attempt to draw play and bubble screen their way down the field in 2 minute drill?

They were good at doing that in 08 because they at least tried to do it as part of the primary offense. They were handicapped by an even worse OL than we have now.

Yes Im sure Haley would have called a draw, draw, draw game plan, but wait a minute who was that OC on the other side of the field calling plays that riddled big plays all over the vaunted 2008 defense?

wait, do you mean the OC who had a HOF QB and WR but didn't do jack shit for half the game, allowing the Steelers to hang around?

Kurt Warner is in the hall? Fitz is in the hall? Really news to me. Oh yeh they did do shit the first half, they drove for a TD or did you miss that part? Additionally unless I'm incorrect PS had one of the best Ds to ever play the game, so yeh the Cards might have had a few issues with that. No other team the entire season did what Cards O did to the Steelers, none.

[V DUB]

Throwing gas on the fire, that mid/deep passing game of Arians kinda stalled after his 20-27 scripted plays....remember the "grab bag" talk?

And Haley has the same "potential" types he had n AZ, with BR & AB.

If this season sucks, I'll be fully on board with you B2B...I'm in show me mode ATM/

[Legacy User]

The last 2-3 pages of this thread are hard to read

Play calling is dumbed down tenfold in the preseason intentionally

Then please explain to me why elite teams like san fran and new england are lighting up scoreboards like christmas trees.

You are bullshitting, right?

SF- wk 1 of 2014 preseason scores 3 points
NE- wk 1 of 2014 preseason scores 6 points

You are bullshitting... I will relax.

[jeemie]

Kurt Warner is in the hall? Fitz is in the hall? Really news to me. Oh yeh they did do shit the first half, they drove for a TD or did you miss that part? Additionally unless I'm incorrect PS had one of the best Ds to ever play the game, so yeh the Cards might have had a few issues with that. No other team the entire season did what Cards O did to the Steelers, none.

Todd Haley spent the entire first 40 minutes of that game trying to establish the run when they had destroyed three previous playoff opponents with the pass.

Think about that...trying to establish the run...against the 2008 Steeler D.

He didn't even have a play that targeted Fitzgerald until the 3rd Quarter.

Are you really defending Haley's gameplanning for that Super Bowl?

You'd be the first.

[Mick]

Kurt Warner is in the hall? Fitz is in the hall? Really news to me. Oh yeh they did do shit the first half, they drove for a TD or did you miss that part? Additionally unless I'm incorrect PS had one of the best Ds to ever play the game, so yeh the Cards might have had a few issues with that. No other team the entire season did what Cards O did to the Steelers, none.

Todd Haley spent the entire first 40 minutes of that game trying to establish the run when they had destroyed three previous playoff opponents with the pass.

Think about that...trying to establish the run...against the 2008 Steeler D.

He didn't even have a play that targeted Fitzgerald until the 3rd Quarter.

Are you really defending Haley's gameplanning for that Super Bowl?

You'd be the first.

I don't know what haley's game plan was going in. Things I do know:
(1) Arizona ran the ball 11 times and threw 43 times against the steelers (not counting sacks/scrambles)
(2) Going into the game, the talk was about how arizona was beating people with their running game that postseason. They certainly ran up an early lead against the iggs through the air, but overall they were 92 run 92 pass in the postseason.
(3) The steeler D was better against the pass than against the run. Only 2 200 yard pass games allowed all year. 4 100 yard rushing games allowed in the last 5 weeks of the season alone.
(4) In general it's a QB's job to decide where the ball goes, and a WR's job to get open.
(5) The SB was the most yards we'd given up all season. We gave up more points in two other games, but the 7 turnovers we committed in those games are where those points came from.

[Nick79]

Without Ben, we could spread the money we're paying Ben around to the rest of the team and have a better rest of the team, so I'm not subscribing to "when Ben retires this team will be a disaster." We might just revert to the 90's.

As if depth all over the roster matters more than a serious, big time, franchise QB.... that's a joke to even think that!

The '90s was great.... Let's pound da rock and run out da clock in the regular season, and then fall behind 10 points in the playoffs... GAME OVER... SEE YA!

[jeemie]

I don't know what haley's game plan was going in. Things I do know:
(1) Arizona ran the ball 11 times and threw 43 times against the steelers (not counting sacks/scrambles)
(2) Going into the game, the talk was about how arizona was beating people with their running game that postseason. They certainly ran up an early lead against the iggs through the air, but overall they were 92 run 92 pass in the postseason.
(3) The steeler D was better against the pass than against the run. Only 2 200 yard pass games allowed all year. 4 100 yard rushing games allowed in the last 5 weeks of the season alone.
(4) In general it's a QB's job to decide where the ball goes, and a WR's job to get open.
(5) The SB was the most yards we'd given up all season. We gave up more points in two other games, but the 7 turnovers we committed in those games are where those points came from.

No- going into that game, the talk was about how the Cards were running effectively AFTER Warner and Fitzgerald ripped through opposing teams' defenses.

And yet Fitzgerald wasn't even TARGETED with a pass until there were under two minutes left in the first half. His first CATCH was shortly afterwards, and then he wasn't targeted again until the FOURTH QUARTER.

I understand the Steelers brought a new wrinkle, the inverted Cover Two, into that game to try and neutralize Fitz, and also had some pretty long drives that kept the ball away from the Cardinals, but that's the danger in the "first read, take what's given" type of offense (it's what cause Peyton Manning trouble in big games oftentimes).

Fitz was their MVP...and Haley let the Steelers' defense dictate when they would even TARGET Fitzgerald.

And that Fitz went off later in the game with 6 catches for 115 yards only punctuated the point that Haley ought to have been scheming to get him his catches FAR earlier in the game than he did.

Instead it was mostly all runs (7 of the 12 runs were in the first half) and short passes to the flats until they were down 20-7.

Hmmm...play it close to the vest until you are down by so much you have to open it up?

That sounds like Todd Haley to me.