How did Jarvis and Shazier look yesterday?

[strom detmer]

I agree with your Moats opinion strom. Moving Moats inside is a joke. Especially that there's a bottleneck already of solid talent available. I also do disagree with this authors opinion of JJ. I don't believe him to be an imbecile though. Jumping the gun? Yeah! Just one persons perspective anyways. What I saw in the first two games this year looked to like JJ was coming on. Thanks for the opinion on someone else's opinion. I expected it to get ripped up here.

Moats is a soft spot on the Strom cranium. Make Strom sad then mad. I defy anyone on here to watch Tomlin run on and off the field and not see Moats stapled to his ass. Disgusting. Its weird, but as I sit here tracking a UPS package that at one time appeared to be getting closer to me but alas now is heading in the opposite direction I am reminded that the laws of blind chance have no respect for the suffering of victims.

You know how Hollywood Henderson smoked over a million dollars worth of crack, raped a couple women at gun point, got slapped on the wrist because he won one out three super bowls he played in, then gets out of prison after a couple months and wins 26 million dollars in a fucking Texas Lotto drawing? Well shouldn't his victims own a little bit of that 26 million? No fucking way. Blind chance is your blind chance.

Moats falling on that fumble was like Tomlins bug eyes staring at me through a throttling darkness while his throat hypnotically emotes,"Moats will always start ahead of Deebo. Moats will play ahead of Jones. Moats Moast Moasted!" Cause I loved the fumble and the play, but it was Moats, and now Tomlin is vindicated for every horrifying run fit, and utter destruction of Moast by a smurf wide out, fuck that, by an actual smurf, probably Pa Pa, that old blue fucker could toss Moast over his shoulder, staple a flag to his ass and mail Moast to Iran before Moast could figure out the principle behind the draw string. Meanwhile Timlin is there reminding me, Moast will always start. Moast is God. Moast will start at ILB over VW. Moast!!!

In my defense of the use of the word Imbecile, UPS tracking can make any man insane. If it was a friend 77 I relinquish it to a sarcastic use of the word "Braniac." And I truly straight up apologize for comparing him to Dilfer. Thats a fucker that would look good with a fork in his eye.

[Steelafan77]

I agree with your Moats opinion strom. Moving Moats inside is a joke. Especially that there's a bottleneck already of solid talent available. I also do disagree with this authors opinion of JJ. I don't believe him to be an imbecile though. Jumping the gun? Yeah! Just one persons perspective anyways. What I saw in the first two games this year looked to like JJ was coming on. Thanks for the opinion on someone else's opinion. I expected it to get ripped up here.

Moats is a soft spot on the Strom cranium. Make Strom sad then mad. I defy anyone on here to watch Tomlin run on and off the field and not see Moats stapled to his ass. Disgusting. Its weird, but as I sit here tracking a UPS package that at one time appeared to be getting closer to me but alas now is heading in the opposite direction I am reminded that the laws of blind chance have no respect for the suffering of victims.

You know how Hollywood Henderson smoked over a million dollars worth of crack, raped a couple women at gun point, got slapped on the wrist because he won one out three super bowls he played in, then gets out of prison after a couple months and wins 26 million dollars in a fucking Texas Lotto drawing? Well shouldn't his victims own a little bit of that 26 million? No fucking way. Blind chance is your blind chance.

Moats falling on that fumble was like Tomlins bug eyes staring at me through a throttling darkness while his throat hypnotically emotes,"Moats will always start ahead of Deebo. Moats will play ahead of Jones. Moats Moast Moasted!" Cause I loved the fumble and the play, but it was Moats, and now Tomlin is vindicated for every horrifying run fit, and utter destruction of Moast by a smurf wide out, fuck that, by an actual smurf, probably Pa Pa, that old blue fucker could toss Moast over his shoulder, staple a flag to his ass and mail Moast to Iran before Moast could figure out the principle behind the draw string. Meanwhile Timlin is there reminding me, Moast will always start. Moast is God. Moast will start at ILB over VW. Moast!!!

In my defense of the use of the word Imbecile, UPS tracking can make any man insane. If it was a friend 77 I relinquish it to a sarcastic use of the word "Braniac." And I truly straight up apologize for comparing him to Dilfer. Thats a fucker that would look good with a fork in his eye.

The first paragraph had me in stitches. With all the Christmas/Holiday stress I needed a good hardy laugh. The entire response is absolutely hysterically lose my ass funny. Thanks for that. You need to write more brutha.

[bradshaw2ben]

Jamie Collins has 3 sacks, one Int, one PD, and 6 TFL in over 800 snaps. His 2 sacks vs SD were delayed blitzes in which he was unblocked.

Jones's numbers were far superior to anyone out of Alabama in a long time.

And I have no clue where that "more and more over time" comes from...Jones rush numbers were almost better in 2 games then this mooks season.

Looking fast and pretty mean jack shit.

he's playing in a 4-3... not primarily or even secondarily an edge rusher.

I'm saying let's check this argument at the door and revisit in 2 years... by which time i think it will be apparent who got the better player.

[Legacy User]

Jamie Collins has 3 sacks, one Int, one PD, and 6 TFL in over 800 snaps. His 2 sacks vs SD were delayed blitzes in which he was unblocked.

Jones's numbers were far superior to anyone out of Alabama in a long time.

And I have no clue where that "more and more over time" comes from...Jones rush numbers were almost better in 2 games then this mooks season.

Looking fast and pretty mean jack shit.

he's playing in a 4-3... not primarily or even secondarily an edge rusher.

I'm saying let's check this argument at the door and revisit in 2 years... by which time i think it will be apparent who got the better player.

Very versatile athlete, can literally play all 3 levels of the defense, even wore the communication helmet when Hightower went down with an injury...id pretty easily take Collins over JJ at this point. Just my opinion.

[Legacy User]

Speaking of being stapled to someone's ass. Good lord

[lifelongsteel]

Collins does seem to be a pretty good player. And the point is what?

[Legacy User]

Speaking of being stapled to someone's ass. Good lord

Speaking of literally the most useless individual on this site.

Your next football only related post will be your 1st.

[955876]

UPS tracking can make any man insane.

You must not have been waiting for a any packages lately from our wonderful United States Postal Service.

Got the message my package arrived at initial facility.

7 days later after what was supposed to be 2-3 day shipping it arrives. And not a single damn update over those 7 days.

[bradshaw2ben]

Collins does seem to be a pretty good player. And the point is what?

The point is: I would bet the house that Jamie Collins would be a better, more frightening LOLB for the Pittsburgh Steelers than Jarvis will ever be. This is my counter to the assertion Zivco & Straightoutofclemson repeatedly make, that "there weren't other viable options available" when Jones was picked.

I want Jarvis Jones to blow my mind and become the next in a tradition of superstar LBs for the Steelers but my expectations are more like Ziggy Hood.

[lifelongsteel]

Collins does seem to be a pretty good player. And the point is what?

The point is: I would bet the house that Jamie Collins would be a better, more frightening LOLB for the Pittsburgh Steelers than Jarvis will ever be. This is my counter to the assertion Zivco & Straightoutofclemson repeatedly make, that "there weren't other viable options available" when Jones was picked.

I want Jarvis Jones to blow my mind and become the next in a tradition of superstar LBs for the Steelers but my expectations are more like Ziggy Hood.

I get your stance. but i think you are kind of arguing apples and oranges here. Even if your belief comes true, it was anything but obvious at the time. per nfl.com Jarvis Jones had a draft grade of 88.8. Collins 68.8. I think 9 personnel men out of 10 would have taken Jones.

Now people who tend to argue for the freak athlete over the college producer would probably take Collins over Jones. But they would also take Dri Archer over D'Anthony Thomas too.

[Legacy User]

Mike Mamula....stud.

/sarca

[Legacy User]

Mike Mamula....stud.

/sarca

Trent Richardson and a whole host of Bama players.

Julius Thomas/Jimmy Graham

[lifelongsteel]

Mike Mamula....stud.

/sarca

Trent Richardson and a whole host of Bama players.

Julius Thomas/Jimmy Graham

Right! you could do this all day. that's why the draft is tough. that's why bemoaning taking 1 type of player (producer) over another (workout warrior) or vice versa is kind of a waste of time.

[Legacy User]

Mike Mamula....stud.

/sarca

Trent Richardson and a whole host of Bama players.

Julius Thomas/Jimmy Graham

Right! you could do this all day. that's why the draft is tough. that's why bemoaning taking 1 type of player (producer) over another (workout warrior) or vice versa is kind of a waste of time.

True but in my case, and Im pretty sure B2Bs as well, we don't espouse 1 way over the other no matter what. Each case or player is different and unique. I liked Hopkins in that draft B2B liked Collins. There were a lot of flags on why not to like Jones. Plus the draft makes good football chatter. lol

[lifelongsteel]

Right! you could do this all day. that's why the draft is tough. that's why bemoaning taking 1 type of player (producer) over another (workout warrior) or vice versa is kind of a waste of time.

True but in my case, and Im pretty sure B2Bs as well, we don't espouse 1 way over the other no matter what. Each case or player is different and unique. I liked Hopkins in that draft B2B liked Collins. There were a lot of flags on why not to like Jones. Plus the draft makes good football chatter. lol

Sure. And i wanted Keenan Allen. You could do this exercise with every single draft pick, and you'd drive yourself crazy.

I guess i'm just not sure why people take on this exercise. If the goal is to judge Colbert than obviously one pick in a vacuum is of very little value.

[Legacy User]

Collins does seem to be a pretty good player. And the point is what?

The point is: I would bet the house that Jamie Collins would be a better, more frightening LOLB for the Pittsburgh Steelers than Jarvis will ever be. This is my counter to the assertion Zivco & Straightoutofclemson repeatedly make, that "there weren't other viable options available" when Jones was picked.

I want Jarvis Jones to blow my mind and become the next in a tradition of superstar LBs for the Steelers but my expectations are more like Ziggy Hood.

what is that he's ever done that tells you he can be a good pass rusher?

[strom detmer]

Jamie Collins has 3 sacks, one Int, one PD, and 6 TFL in over 800 snaps. His 2 sacks vs SD were delayed blitzes in which he was unblocked.

Jones's numbers were far superior to anyone out of Alabama in a long time.

And I have no clue where that "more and more over time" comes from...Jones rush numbers were almost better in 2 games then this mooks season.

Looking fast and pretty mean jack shit.

he's playing in a 4-3... not primarily or even secondarily an edge rusher.

I'm saying let's check this argument at the door and revisit in 2 years... by which time i think it will be apparent who got the better player.

B2B I love your draft talk! But man, your love for Collins makes the Cowher-Morey bro-down seem like the War of the Roses. I would like to chime in with my agreement with the SOOC...and say in 2 years it will show:
JJ>Alonso >Collins

Flame outs:
Brown
Jordan
Mingo

[bradshaw2ben]

Collins does seem to be a pretty good player. And the point is what?

The point is: I would bet the house that Jamie Collins would be a better, more frightening LOLB for the Pittsburgh Steelers than Jarvis will ever be. This is my counter to the assertion Zivco & Straightoutofclemson repeatedly make, that "there weren't other viable options available" when Jones was picked.

I want Jarvis Jones to blow my mind and become the next in a tradition of superstar LBs for the Steelers but my expectations are more like Ziggy Hood.

I get your stance. but i think you are kind of arguing apples and oranges here. Even if your belief comes true, it was anything but obvious at the time. per nfl.com Jarvis Jones had a draft grade of 88.8. Collins 68.8. I think 9 personnel men out of 10 would have taken Jones.

Now people who tend to argue for the freak athlete over the college producer would probably take Collins over Jones. But they would also take Dri Archer over D'Anthony Thomas too.

Edge rusher is THE position where NFL success is correlated to draft status PLUS outlier athleticism. The success stories of successful edge rushers without outlier athleticism are extremely rare, whereas top 100 type talents with outlier power or explosion+cornering are almost always at least successful.

Besides, Collins's tape should have opened the eyes of anyone who hadn't heard of him before he blew up the combine. The whole point is to go back and look at the tape of players who are that kind of special athlete. Collins is a great pass rusher and tackles everything in sight on his college film. Anyone who had him graded lower than a 1st round talent was mistaken.

[bradshaw2ben]

Ps: do you think good organizations care what draft grade NFL com uses?

[Legacy User]

I'll ask again, what has he done to be labeled a "great pass rusher" ???

[bradshaw2ben]

Collins does seem to be a pretty good player. And the point is what?

The point is: I would bet the house that Jamie Collins would be a better, more frightening LOLB for the Pittsburgh Steelers than Jarvis will ever be. This is my counter to the assertion Zivco & Straightoutofclemson repeatedly make, that "there weren't other viable options available" when Jones was picked.

I want Jarvis Jones to blow my mind and become the next in a tradition of superstar LBs for the Steelers but my expectations are more like Ziggy Hood.

what is that he's ever done that tells you he can be a good pass rusher?

He had 45 TFL and 21 sacks in college and looked the part doing it + he's a freak athlete like Demarcus ware, Von miller, Justin Houston, et al

[Legacy User]

Jarvis Jones had 45 TFL and 28 sacks in the SEC

in 2 years

Did I mention in the SEC?

[Steeldrama]

Collins does seem to be a pretty good player. And the point is what?

I want Jarvis Jones to blow my mind and become the next in a tradition of superstar LBs for the Steelers but my expectations are more like Ziggy Hood.

I get the Ziggy Hood comparison. First round pick from SEC school that performed more like a mid round pick than 1st rd pick.

When I think of Jarvis Jones I think Huey Richardson. Both much ballyhooed performers from big time SEC programs. Both players had the sacks numbers but not the workout numbers with 'ol Huey doing what 1 rep at 225?

However, the major difference is Jarvis was not a conversion project having played 3-4 OLB in Todd Granthams NFL derived defense. The selection made sense with Tombert seeing a Decastro like slide of a highly decorated, productive college player fall in their laps.

Anyway, I'll never fall to the dark side of believing in workouts over production. However in this case I think Jarvis, again much like Huey, is not producing the stats because he lacks the workout numbers. No bigger fan of UGA kids than me so I'm hoping Jarvis steps up and lives up to his draft billing, but for now the only thing hes living up to his slow and soft reputation he had while playing in nearby Athens.

[lifelongsteel]

Ps: do you think good organizations care what draft grade NFL com uses?

Of course not. But since I'm not privy to teams' grades I used this. Difference between 88 and 68 is pretty big. I think 9/10 teams would have preferred Jones seems like a good guess.

[strom detmer]

The point is: I would bet the house that Jamie Collins would be a better, more frightening LOLB for the Pittsburgh Steelers than Jarvis will ever be. This is my counter to the assertion Zivco & Straightoutofclemson repeatedly make, that "there weren't other viable options available" when Jones was picked.

I want Jarvis Jones to blow my mind and become the next in a tradition of superstar LBs for the Steelers but my expectations are more like Ziggy Hood.

what is that he's ever done that tells you he can be a good pass rusher?

He had 45 TFL and 21 sacks in college and looked the part doing it + he's a freak athlete like Demarcus ware, Von miller, Justin Houston, et al

Fuck college. How about Jamie Collins has an 8.7 percent tackle rate in the pros? Thats terrible. He created pressure on just 6% of his blitzes with zero sacks all year until they lined him over San Diegos 4th string, rookie, starting his first game ever, during his first series ever, center....The result looked like this:



Collins with the sack. They did that twice to SD. Collins got a sack the second time as well. Collins has 3 sacks on the season and those are two of them. 2 of his 3 sacks were this, happening twice, against a rookie, 4th string center starting his first game, on the first two series. Then of course San Diego left an old hobbled injury prone half back in to help.



Not a pleasant look to that rush at all by Bruce Davis, err I mean Collins. The Scheme works because Rivers is an old woman who throws into ridiculous coverages, but Collins seriously looks like the Bruce Davis. You thought Jarvis has no bulk? Or Shazier looks small? Collins is a broomstick with teeth. (Shout out to Jimmy Walker! Dyn-o-mite!)

You seriously see this guy as a frightening ROLB? He most certainly is not. You can say I just posted only two plays, and I can say, yup because he only has 3 fucking sacks and this play is two of them. The guy has 1 sack in 14 games with 300 plus blitzes that were not against a rookie 4th string center starting his first game playing his first series ever...come back to the fold sir. PS - fuck the Patriots.

[bradshaw2ben]

Jarvis Jones had 45 TFL and 28 sacks in the SEC

in 2 years

Did I mention in the SEC?

And does not have the athleticism of Larry foote

[Legacy User]

Collins does seem to be a pretty good player. And the point is what?

I want Jarvis Jones to blow my mind and become the next in a tradition of superstar LBs for the Steelers but my expectations are more like Ziggy Hood.

I get the Ziggy Hood comparison. First round pick from SEC school that performed more like a mid round pick than 1st rd pick.

When I think of Jarvis Jones I think Huey Richardson. Both much ballyhooed performers from big time SEC programs. Both players had the sacks numbers but not the workout numbers with 'ol Huey doing what 1 rep at 225?

However, the major difference is Jarvis was not a conversion project having played 3-4 OLB in Todd Granthams NFL derived defense. The selection made sense with Tombert seeing a Decastro like slide of a highly decorated, productive college player fall in their laps.

Anyway, I'll never fall to the dark side of believing in workouts over production. However in this case I think Jarvis, again much like Huey, is not producing the stats because he lacks the workout numbers. No bigger fan of UGA kids than me so I'm hoping Jarvis steps up and lives up to his draft billing, but for now the only thing hes living up to his slow and soft reputation he had while playing in nearby Athens.

Huey????

Come on Mang

See, part of the problem is the idea of draft value. If you look at the next 18 picks to round out the top 50 of Hoods class you have Byrd and Unger, about 10 flame outs, and a few guys in Hoods neighborhood. I think Bellichik the great made 3 picks in that range- all flamed out.

[Legacy User]

I was huge advocate of drafting Unger

Storm, great post......again.

Should put the Jamie Collins sack production thing to bed

This debate really boils down to "the guy I wanted to draft is better and my mind was made up before he even played a down"

[bradshaw2ben]

I was huge advocate of drafting Unger

Storm, great post......again.

Should put the Jamie Collins sack production thing to bed

This debate really boils down to "the guy I wanted to draft is better and my mind was made up before he even played a down"

They are all risks… Jimmy Collins is just a less risky selection for an outside linebacker then Jones, based on tape and numbers

Forget the hype! The hype masters are the same people who blow smoke up Johnny manziel's ass and the people who think all the popular players are the best ever.

[Legacy User]

I think you know me well enough by now to now I don't do anything based on hype.

I take so much flack around here because while most operate from hype, info off what my eyes tell me, right or wrong