Report:Antonio Brown seeking new deal.

[Legacy User]

Is someone comparing TY Hilton with AB right now???!

Talking heads did it. I should shake that shit out of my brain. so solly

Traveling around message boards today I came upon this one.



Then the OP had a pic of Holmes SB winning TD.

[Baltostiller]

I'm not reading through this whole thread but AB signed a $43 million contract with only 2 NFL receiving touchdowns to his credit.

He took the money early to gain security. He out performed that contract but he is at minimum a year away from a new deal. He'll kill a lot of goodwill with this stunt. And Rosenhaus is an idiot.

[Legacy User]

I wonder if those saying "play out your contract" were just as appalled by the team's decision to not retain the services of someone like Woodley through the end of his contract.

For those comparing this to "the real world". You wouldn't expect some type of reward for out-performing your pay? Or use your performance for some type of leverage to gain financially or otherwise? If you under-performed your pay, you wouldn't worry about getting canned?

The difference is you have the option to get a new job if you feel you out-performed your pay and the company refuses to compensate you your self-determined worth. Brown doesn't have that option.

No he didn't have to sign the contract. But he also doesn't have to be content and can use whatever maneuvre within the rules he feels is justified.

That being said - if this show ends up potentially hurting the team, maximize your value for him and move on.

[Legacy User]

Is someone comparing TY Hilton with AB right now???!

Yes this thread includes Brown/Hilton and Nick79/Shrek comparisons.

I was just looking at the over the cap link, reordered by guaranteed % of contract and saw that AB and Hilton had about the same % of guaranteed money. However, AB makes about 20x that Hilton makes. Then I remembered the talking heads AB Hiltons comments from last year.

Then I hit the submit button...............

[Obviously]

I'm pretty sure we can compare AB to A. J. Green.

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/20 ... article%5D

[Legacy User]

Please forgive my lack of knowledge and naivete but do the Steelers have the option of unilaterally paying some kind of performance bonus outside of (in addition to) the existing contract? Is there a way to recognize AB's contribution to the team without extending or renegotiating the contract or violating some league / player association agreement?

[Scunge]

Yeah, I remember when Hines Ward was bitching and moaning while over on a USO tour over in Iraq. He was whining how he wasn't paid enough and how he had outperformed his contract, etc. If I remember right the Steelers gave him a 5 year $10 million contract and this was after he had only 124 catches and 11 TDs the first 3 years of his rookie contract. Yes, he had 4 straight 1,000 yard seasons, made the Pro Bowl 4 straight seasons but he didn't really pull the trigger on holding out, on demanding more money, until the last year of that second contract.

Brown, yes, has outplayed his contact but he still has 3 years left on it! This is really unchartered territory for the Steelers and would set dangerous precedents, and I don't know if the Rooneys want to go down that path.

I don't know what to think about Antonio Brown being irreplaceable. I just don't think he is all that. I don't believe that he has the ability to just go to another team like a Miami, or a Cleveland or an Oakland and just put up the same numbers and production. Ben, like the other truly great elite QBs, has a way of getting production out of his WRs. Whether it is Hines Ward, Santonio Holmes, Nate Washington, Mike Wallace, Antonio Brown, Martavius Bryant, Ben has a way of getting great play out of the WRs.

I also think that the situation over the past two years was sort of unique and that Antonio Brown might not ever sniff 100 again, or even 85 catches in a season. Think about it. Wallace leaves, Sanders is injury prone, Heath Miller and Matt Spaeth are aging and miss time. Then Sanders leaves, Cotchery leaves, Wheaton has nearly his rookie season wiped out to injury, they hold Bryant back his first 6 games of his rookie season.

Brown was leaned upon heavily the past two seasons because of the upheaval on offense at the skill positions. Now that there is stability, now that we have a Bell, Bryant and Wheaton all becoming more comfortable and if we add a TE in round 1 or 2 and another WR in round 3 or 4, then Brown is going to see his production decrease.

Quite frankly, I think that needs to happen anyway because the offense has to become more diversified, more players have to become playmakers if we are ever to become a top scoring unit instead of just great between the 20s and settling for field goals.

In terms of money, I would only personally give him an average of $10 million a year, max. I don't care what other stupid teams paid for other WRs. Green Bay gave Randall Cobb 4 years, $40 million, an average of $10 million. I think that if Cobb were playing on the Steelers that he would put up the same production as Brown as a WR and PR/KR.

I would tell him to play out this year and then next offseason, when he has 2 years left on his contract, I would add 2 years more on to his contract and give him a signing bonus to appease him.

[Nick79]

Stinger- yes, I've seen Nick79 compared to Shrek hahahaha

Do you ever think about anybody else asshole? I've barely participated in this thread.

And is there something wrong with wanting a bigger salary number just for respect? Don't you feel that in your job? I know I certaiunly have pushed to get paid more, just out of the need to feel respected, more than just for "need".

[Legacy User]

Stinger- yes, I've seen Nick79 compared to Shrek hahahaha

Do you ever think about anybody else asshole? I've barely participated in this thread.

And is there something wrong with wanting a bigger salary number just for respect? Don't you feel that in your job? I know I certaiunly have pushed to get paid more, just out of the need to feel respected, more than just for "need".

Maybe AB needs a cake and ice cream party?

[COR-TEN]

For those comparing this to "the real world". You wouldn't expect some type of reward for out-performing your pay? Or use your performance for some type of leverage to gain financially or otherwise? If you under-performed your pay, you wouldn't worry about getting canned?

The difference is you have the option to get a new job if you feel you out-performed your pay and the company refuses to compensate you your self-determined worth. Brown doesn't have that option.

Sure, but not prematurely, especially since the previous contract was already generous for his "performance." That is exactly the point. He feels entitled to something after already getting paid. All contracts and situations are different, but the fundamental policy of asking for more because it turned out better or worse than expected is selfish bullshit.

I get that you re-negotiate and use performance as leverage, but under more honorable circumstances. They could have worked a deal, but apparently AB isn't satisfied, so he announces it to the fan base for even more leverage against the FO. Get the public to hate you. I get he believes he's worth it, but there are other means to get your payday. Steelers usually figure out ways to pay players for past performance. Woodly got a payday and look at what happened. You think the steelers get their money back?

Look at these similar examples highlighting similar behavior.

You pay a financial planner for his service through commission, or percentage of money earned on investment. What would happen if they suddenly told you after a 11 months that because of how well he did for the year, they want to retroactive bump up the percentage to "compensate." Because they made the right decisions. Turned out way better than they expected, and you owe. You deny, and the next year, he tells you, the commission will be double, you know, to compensate for his loss.

You are an architect and are hired to build a skyscraper. Half way through the process you decide that you miscalculated, there were far too many variables, and your client contact is a pain the ass. You tell your client you want more money because you are working too hard.

Your dentist tells you that for dental work and braces it cost $X. After completion, he tells you that you are getting a refund because it was way easier than he expected.

Yeah, tell me that would fly "in real life." But I do agree with one poster here that said it's about dick size. That makes way more sense.

[bradshaw2ben]

apparently you never heard of cost overruns

[Legacy User]

apparently you never heard of cost overruns

I was going to mention the same thing. Every large scale construction project I've ever seen has had at least a dozen or so change orders added on after the initial contract demanding more money.

"Oops, we hit a buried alien spacecraft, we need an extra $40,000 to remove it."

[Legacy User]

Stinger- yes, I've seen Nick79 compared to Shrek hahahaha

Do you ever think about anybody else asshole? I've barely participated in this thread.

And is there something wrong with wanting a bigger salary number just for respect? Don't you feel that in your job? I know I certaiunly have pushed to get paid more, just out of the need to feel respected, more than just for "need".

I'm repeating what others have said. I don't give two fucks about you, asswipe.

Do I believe he deserves a bump in pay? Of course. But he also signed the 6 year contract and i'm pretty certain nobody put a gun to his head making him sign it.

[jeemie]

apparently you never heard of cost overruns

I was going to mention the same thing. Every large scale construction project I've ever seen has had at least a dozen or so change orders added on after the initial contract demanding more money.

"Oops, we hit a buried alien spacecraft, we need an extra $40,000 to remove it."

Yes- and the change order process is something that's negotiated ahead of time, not created at the threat of a work stoppage.

[COR-TEN]

apparently you never heard of cost overruns

I was going to mention the same thing. Every large scale construction project I've ever seen has had at least a dozen or so change orders added on after the initial contract demanding more money.

"Oops, we hit a buried alien spacecraft, we need an extra $40,000 to remove it."

Yes- and the change order process is something that's negotiated ahead of time, not created at the threat of a work stoppage.

Exactly. Also, finding an alien spacecraft is defiantly out of the ordinary. Hitting a boulder that requires another $10k to remove is part of the estimate the contractor submitted. That's why they build in slush funds and financial contingencies for expected obstacles - like hitting a boulder when building a skyscraper.

[StillMadAtSlobber]

Is someone comparing TY Hilton with AB right now???!

Yes this thread includes Brown/Hilton and Nick79/Shrek comparisons.

Well at least one is true (the latter).

[Suwanee88]

He was the best WR in football last year and is entering the prime of his career. I'd want to be paid like it too.

Hopefully the riff raff of the fan base doesn't completely turn against him.

He should have thought about this before he signed his contract. Total BS move. I hope they trade him.

[alancac98]

Does he have twitter? I don't, but others on here might. I wonder how he would respond to some of our criticisms if they are posted to his twitter account. He's often been heralded for a cool head and a really down to earth guy. I never thought he had a big head, but this mo money think is a little distasteful and disheartening. I would like to ask him that if he has a case of fumblitus or droppsies next year if he would be willing to give a fair amount of his paycheck back for under-performance? I would love to see his response!

[Nick79]

Stinger- yes, I've seen Nick79 compared to Shrek hahahaha

Do you ever think about anybody else asshole? I've barely participated in this thread.

And is there something wrong with wanting a bigger salary number just for respect? Don't you feel that in your job? I know I certaiunly have pushed to get paid more, just out of the need to feel respected, more than just for "need".

I'm repeating what others have said. I don't give two fucks about you, asswipe.

Do I believe he deserves a bump in pay? Of course. But he also signed the 6 year contract and i'm pretty certain nobody put a gun to his head making him sign it.

People in sports generally don't honor contracts dumbfuck, if you paid attention, you'd see that this sort of thing happens all the time asshole.

[Legacy User]

He was the best WR in football last year and is entering the prime of his career. I'd want to be paid like it too.

Hopefully the riff raff of the fan base doesn't completely turn against him.

He should have thought about this before he signed his contract. Total BS move. I hope they trade him.

There are two conflicting principles of obligation at work here, both pertaining to justice:
1) A perfect duty toward the Steelers FO has been established by contract.
AB signed a contract. This is essentially an agreement and promise. Since he signed the contract, we suppose that he is obligated to live up to his promise. By demanding a new contract, he is essentially breaking a promise. But once we enter into a promise, the person to whom we pledged our actions now has a claim and right on us to fulfill our end of the bargain as long as they are fulfilling their end. The Steelers are fulfilling their end. Ergo...

2) Distributive Justice
Each should get what they deserve. AB is currently getting less than he deserves by market standards.

Some of you are standing by (1), some are standing by (2). Both positions are valid in their own way. But I say 1 trumps 2 because no one forced AB to sign the contract. He voluntarily entered into the deal.

I just want them to resolve the shit. AB getting traded would suck giant moose cock and the offense would not be as good.

[bradshaw2ben]

trust me sports is no the only place where people don't honor contracts

[COR-TEN]

He was the best WR in football last year and is entering the prime of his career. I'd want to be paid like it too.

Hopefully the riff raff of the fan base doesn't completely turn against him.

He should have thought about this before he signed his contract. Total BS move. I hope they trade him.

There are two conflicting principles of obligation at work here, both pertaining to justice:
1) A perfect duty toward the Steelers FO has been established by contract.
AB signed a contract. This is essentially an agreement and promise. Since he signed the contract, we suppose that he is obligated to live up to his promise. By demanding a new contract, he is essentially breaking a promise. But once we enter into a promise, the person to whom we pledged our actions now has a claim and right on us to fulfill our end of the bargain as long as they are fulfilling their end. The Steelers are fulfilling their end. Ergo...

2) Distributive Justice
Each should get what they deserve. AB is currently getting less than he deserves by market standards.

Some of you are standing by (1), some are standing by (2). Both positions are valid in their own way. But I say 1 trumps 2 because no one forced AB to sign the contract. He voluntarily entered into the deal.

I just want them to resolve the shit. AB getting traded would suck giant moose cock and the offense would not be as good.

Why should (2) supersede (1)? (2) is subject to interpretation. The idea that 2015 will be as good as 2014 is speculation. A contract is a concrete promise for the expectation of doing your best under the time frame of the contract. It could be argued that the previous contract was granted on only 2 TD production, so therefore he got overpaid,.

[Legacy User]

Why should (2) supersede (1)? (2) is subject to interpretation. The idea that 2015 will be as good as 2014 is speculation. A contract is a concrete promise for the expectation of doing your best under the time frame of the contract. It could be argued that the previous contract was granted on only 2 TD production, so therefore he got overpaid,.

Why should being subject to interpretation make distributive justice less obligating? In fact, 1 might be based on 2.

[Legacy User]

trust me sports is no the only place where people don't honor contracts

you better believe it.

Ive seen said to 100 plus degreed white collar types: "This paper says we have over 5 years work.

Two years latter everyone was pounding the sidewalk.

That said I find it hard to feel sorry with someone that this year will have tallied up 26 mil of 43 mil. Too bad that Pouncey makes more in less time than AB. I wouldn't be surprised if Pouncey did some brag at AB and that's part of the story. OTOH I bet Pouncey keeps quite about money around DeCastro.

[COR-TEN]

Why should (2) supersede (1)? (2) is subject to interpretation. The idea that 2015 will be as good as 2014 is speculation. A contract is a concrete promise for the expectation of doing your best under the time frame of the contract. It could be argued that the previous contract was granted on only 2 TD production, so therefore he got overpaid,.

Why should being subject to interpretation make distributive justice less obligating? In fact, 1 might be based on 2.

It's less obligating IMO, because you already made, as you mentioned, a promise. An formal, official agreement. There is also nobody in a position to be an independent arbiter of "justice." It's up to each party to "interpret" the injustice, or justice, if you will. Therefore, the default is the contract.

Contracts cannot be interpreted, that's why there are teams of lawyers on both sides addressing every contingency.

Sure, holding out is an option. People do it. People go on strike. It doesn't make it right or just every time.

[jeemie]

Does he have twitter? I don't, but others on here might. I wonder how he would respond to some of our criticisms if they are posted to his twitter account. He's often been heralded for a cool head and a really down to earth guy. I never thought he had a big head, but this mo money think is a little distasteful and disheartening. I would like to ask him that if he has a case of fumblitus or droppsies next year if he would be willing to give a fair amount of his paycheck back for under-performance? I would love to see his response!

He's got Twitter.

There's no mention of any of this there yet.

My guess is Rosenhaus is telling him not to talk about it on Twitter at all.

[Legacy User]

It's less obligating IMO, because you already made, as you mentioned, a promise. An formal, official agreement. There is also nobody in a position to be an independent arbiter of "justice." It's up to each party to "interpret" the injustice, or justice, if you will. Therefore, the default is the contract.

Contracts cannot be interpreted, that's why there are teams of lawyers on both sides addressing every contingency.

Sure, holding out is an option. People do it. People go on strike. It doesn't make it right or just every time.

But if justice is relative (I do not concede at all that it is), then who is to say that breaking a contract is unjust? Suppose AB interprets that the agreement in hindsight is unjust? Which is just what he has done. Contracts stipulate the terms of agreements. They do not stipulate whether the terms are good terms or bad terms.

I'm not siding with AB on this, either.

[COR-TEN]

It's less obligating IMO, because you already made, as you mentioned, a promise. An formal, official agreement. There is also nobody in a position to be an independent arbiter of "justice." It's up to each party to "interpret" the injustice, or justice, if you will. Therefore, the default is the contract.

Contracts cannot be interpreted, that's why there are teams of lawyers on both sides addressing every contingency.

Sure, holding out is an option. People do it. People go on strike. It doesn't make it right or just every time.

But if justice is relative (I do not concede at all that it is), then who is to say that breaking a contract is unjust? Suppose AB interprets that the agreement in hindsight is unjust? Which is just what he has done. Contracts stipulate the terms of agreements. They do not stipulate whether the terms are good terms or bad terms.

I'm not siding with AB on this, either.

I like AB but am a bit disappointed. I can let him slide because if in effect this is a way to gain respect among his peers, then so be it. It is what it is and is part of the social construct he belongs to. I can understand that more than just breaking your word because you did better than your employer thought and want more cash. Anyway, humor me. . .

If a contract can be broken if it is interpreted as unjust, that renders the whole concept of a contract and the term justice meaningless. It becomes anarchy with no social rules.

Secondly, whether or not a contract contains good or bad terms is moot. You signed the contract and "agreed." Contracts aren't drawn up to be liquid. That's the whole point of a contract. You are "locked in." I also have to say that I speak in broad terms. There are always caveats and specific situation that should be viewed as such.

Either way, if he walks, I think the steelers are fucked. He and BR have a great working relationship and seem to know each others habits well. I'd hate to see that disappear and have to painfully watch another player struggle to get that rapport or trust. Maybe it doesn't matter. WR's for the steelers don't seem to skip a beat. If it wasn't holmes it was brown. If it wasn't Plax it was ward. Bryant seems to be trending up as well.

[jeemie]

His Twitter is silent but fans starting to harass him over this on Facebook.

https://www.facebook.com/AntonioBrown84

[Suwanee88]

He was the best WR in football last year and is entering the prime of his career. I'd want to be paid like it too.

Hopefully the riff raff of the fan base doesn't completely turn against him.

He should have thought about this before he signed his contract. Total BS move. I hope they trade him.

There are two conflicting principles of obligation at work here, both pertaining to justice:
1) A perfect duty toward the Steelers FO has been established by contract.
AB signed a contract. This is essentially an agreement and promise. Since he signed the contract, we suppose that he is obligated to live up to his promise. By demanding a new contract, he is essentially breaking a promise. But once we enter into a promise, the person to whom we pledged our actions now has a claim and right on us to fulfill our end of the bargain as long as they are fulfilling their end. The Steelers are fulfilling their end. Ergo...

2) Distributive Justice
Each should get what they deserve. AB is currently getting less than he deserves by market standards.

Some of you are standing by (1), some are standing by (2). Both positions are valid in their own way. But I say 1 trumps 2 because no one forced AB to sign the contract. He voluntarily entered into the deal.

I just want them to resolve the shit. AB getting traded would suck giant moose cock and the offense would not be as good.

"Honored to live up to his promise" - I have some other thoughts about this -IMO the Steelers took a risk when they signed him. I believe they were paying him for his potential - he thankfully has lived up to it - now he wants them to over pay again - no thanks - I say trade him.