Game 111: Pirates at Cardinals

[Legacy User]

Well fuck. I just don't understand not having Locke on a very, very short leash in the 5th. How can you watch him walk the first two batters and not get him the fuck out of there?!? We had a good chance to steal a Martinez vs. Locke matchup, and Hurdle blew this one.

Cole needs to regain his mojo tomorrow and shut these fuckers down for 7-8 innings. I still believe we can take this division!

Y-Town, you have no idea how much in my heart I want to believe this myself.
Unfortunately, I still believe what my lying eyes tell me more than what my heart tells me.

Nope- we're going to get the roulette game and have to go up against Jake Arrieta.

Only question is will we still be close enough by season's end so Hurdle fails to properly set up his pitchers again to have Cole go in the roulette game?

Strangely, Jeemie, we should hope we aren't just a game or two away or he'll surely burn Cole (no pun intended) chasing the impossible dream. No worries though -- he can count on a solid 4 innings from the great Jeff Locke in the roulette game.

[Jobu]

Well fuck. I just don't understand not having Locke on a very, very short leash in the 5th. How can you watch him walk the first two batters and not get him the fuck out of there?!? We had a good chance to steal a Martinez vs. Locke matchup, and Hurdle blew this one.

Cole needs to regain his mojo tomorrow and shut these fuckers down for 7-8 innings. I still believe we can take this division!

Y-Town, you have no idea how much in my heart I want to believe this myself.
Unfortunately, I still believe what my lying eyes tell me more than what my heart tells me.

Nope- we're going to get the roulette game and have to go up against Jake Arrieta.

Only question is will we still be close enough by season's end so Hurdle fails to properly set up his pitchers again to have Cole go in the roulette game?

I fully expect Bubbles to start Charlie Morton in that game...if they get to that game.

[Legacy User]

cole..been shaky... hes our best.. im so sick of getting bitched by cards! why the fuck u leave nibbles in there till games gone.....its unreal the stupidity.

[jeemie]

Strangely, Jeemie, we should hope we aren't just a game or two away or he'll surely burn Cole (no pun intended) chasing the impossible dream. No worries though -- he can count on a solid 4 innings from the great Jeff Locke in the roulette game.

To be quite honest, I'm not even sure I trust Cole in such a game.

The dude has been scuffling for a month and a half...and part of the reason (confirmed by Chris Stewart in an interview) is he has been letting his emotions get the better of him.

And another thing to consider tomorrow night- if the pressure of going up against Wacha wasn't bad enough, Clint Hurdle has decide that this important series is where he should experiment by having Cervelli catch for Cole.

Ordinarily I'm not a fan of a pitcher having a security blanket (think AJ Burnett needing Hot Rod to catch him every game a couple of years ago- oh, and the Pirates always having to wear the black shirts when AJ pitched), but this is now a REALLY important game.

Do you really think it's time to change something up on a pitcher that's been having trouble with his emotions lately?

[jeemie]

im not 100 percent on cole.. but hes our best.. im so sick of getting bitched by cards! why the fuck u leave nibbles in there till games gone.....its unreal the stupidity.

He was "only at 83 pitches"- don't you get it?

[Jobu]

Actually, I was hoping my negative juju would help them but Hurdle's juju was more powerful than was mine.

Never underestimate the power of the dark side...

[jeemie]

Actually, I was hoping my negative juju would help them but Hurdle's juju was more powerful than was mine.

Never underestimate the power of the dark side...

Well, we're not really competing for a World Series until 2017-18, so...

[Legacy User]

im not 100 percent on cole.. but hes our best.. im so sick of getting bitched by cards! why the fuck u leave nibbles in there till games gone.....its unreal the stupidity.

He was "only at 83 pitches"- don't you get it?

I think he said it was 83 pitches, but maybe he said he was still throwing it up there at 83 mph.

[jeemie]

Thanks Bling...I have passed from anger/frustration over to humor now!

[Legacy User]

Well fuck. I just don't understand not having Locke on a very, very short leash in the 5th. How can you watch him walk the first two batters and not get him the fuck out of there?!? We had a good chance to steal a Martinez vs. Locke matchup, and Hurdle blew this one.

Cole needs to regain his mojo tomorrow and shut these fuckers down for 7-8 innings. I still believe we can take this division!

Y-Town, you have no idea how much in my heart I want to believe this myself.
Unfortunately, I still believe what my lying eyes tell me more than what my heart tells me.

Yeah I hope I still believe it Friday morning...

I do think it's just about fuck-or-walk time if we're going to give ourselves a chance to catch these bastards. A Cardinal sweep and dropping to 8 games back seems insurmountable.

So - as my old sales manager used to tell us - fuck, you pussies! Fuck!

[Legacy User]

Nope- we're going to get the roulette game and have to go up against Jake Arrieta.

Only question is will we still be close enough by season's end so Hurdle fails to properly set up his pitchers again to have Cole go in the roulette game?

Strangely, Jeemie, we should hope we aren't just a game or two away or he'll surely burn Cole (no pun intended) chasing the impossible dream. No worries though -- he can count on a solid 4 innings from the great Jeff Locke in the roulette game.

See I think if you have a chance at the division (we have to win, Cards have to lose) on the final day then you go with your ace. You go with Cole. To not do so sends the wrong message to the team, IMO.

But yeah if it plays out that we go for the division, burn Cole, and still end up in the WCG, it better be Frankie out there! Frankie in the WCG is good juju

[jeemie]

If I'd seen this before the game, I would have know that Hurdle was not going to manage it any differently than he manages any game.

http://www.post-gazette.com/sports/pira ... 1508110193

Asked earlier Tuesday about the big series, manager Clint Hurdle laughed. He had been told that last weekend’s series against the division-leading Los Angeles Dodgers was a big series, and that this weekend’s series against the division-leading New York Mets will be a big series.

“You know what?” Hurdle said. “That's why they call it the big leagues.”

Sigh...

[jeemie]

See I think if you have a chance at the division (we have to win, Cards have to lose) on the final day then you go with your ace. You go with Cole. To not do so sends the wrong message to the team, IMO.

But yeah if it plays out that we go for the division, burn Cole, and still end up in the WCG, it better be Frankie out there! Frankie in the WCG is good juju

Well, this year, it would make sense to do that because we play the Cardinals in the final series...at PNC Park.

So if we are three games out with three to play, with the wild card clinched, we're going to have to go for it.

Even if that sets a lesser pitcher up for the WCG.

Of course, what that would mean is we should go all hands on deck for the WCG like the Giants did for World Series game 7 last year.

I think we know Clint Hurdle won't do that, though. He tried to stretch Edison Volquez further than he should have last year, too, if you'll recall.

[Legacy User]

hurdle is NEVER going to win a WS in Pittsburgh...

the guy is just too predictable and conservative....

Pittsburgh is never gonna have a stunning roster on paper....

to beat better teams you gotta pull out all the stops....

hurdle will never do that

[Legacy User]

See I think if you have a chance at the division (we have to win, Cards have to lose) on the final day then you go with your ace. You go with Cole. To not do so sends the wrong message to the team, IMO.

But yeah if it plays out that we go for the division, burn Cole, and still end up in the WCG, it better be Frankie out there! Frankie in the WCG is good juju

Well, this year, it would make sense to do that because we play the Cardinals in the final series...at PNC Park.

So if we are three games out with three to play, with the wild card clinched, we're going to have to go for it.

Even if that sets a lesser pitcher up for the WCG.

Of course, what that would mean is we should go all hands on deck for the WCG like the Giants did for World Series game 7 last year.

I think we know Clint Hurdle won't do that, though. He tried to stretch Edison Volquez further than he should have last year, too, if you'll recall.

Ah. Yeah, that makes the decision a whole lot easier then!

[jeemie]

I have to save this picture:

[Legacy User]

The Pirates next 5 games against St. Louis are all @ Busch Stadium.
In theory the Pirates could win all 5, play even with St. Louis in all other games, and be 1 game back when the 2 teams play the last 3 @ PNC.
In that case, the Pirates would have to win 3 of 4 games, including the 1 game playoff -- that's 2 of 3 to tie the Cardinals and the playoff game.
I'm guessing Cole would already have pitched one of the first three games, but with the Hurdle mentality about all series being big series you never know. In any case, if Cole pitches one of the first three games, the 1 game playoff would be without Cole anyway.

Now, let's return to the real world. The Pirates aren't winning 5 straight @ Busch over the next 5 games when they always find a way to give away games as they have the last 4 games. Furthermore, even if they did they'd still blow games against the Reds, Brewers, and Cubs unless they suddenly learn how to beat inferior competition.

Save yourselves a lot of grief. Concentrate on winning the roulette game (even the Pirate announcers were talking about the roulette game when the subject arose about teaming Cervelli with Cole tomorrow night to get them some work together).

[jeemie]

Concentrate on winning the roulette game (even the Pirate announcers were talking about the roulette game when the subject arose about teaming Cervelli with Cole tomorrow night to get them some work together).

Believe me, I know we're going to the roulette game, and I even agree we should start teaming Cole with Cervelli to get them ready for that.

Just not tomorrow night, when he's been very emotional lately, which has been affecting his pitching, and he has a fucking very important game to pitch.

[Legacy User]

Concentrate on winning the roulette game (even the Pirate announcers were talking about the roulette game when the subject arose about teaming Cervelli with Cole tomorrow night to get them some work together).

Believe me, I know we're going to the roulette game, and I even agree we should start teaming Cole with Cervelli to get them ready for that.

Just not tomorrow night, when he's been very emotional lately, which has been affecting his pitching, and he has a fucking very important game to pitch.

My only point here was that the announcers have already thrown in the towel (although John Wehner said the tag team could be for a game #7 somewhere). FWIW, I do agree with you about waiting until the next start to tag team Cole with Cervelli, but as you pointed out, this series isn't really all that big to Hurdle (maybe because he's already thrown in the towel on the division?).

Then again, maybe we can reverse fortune against the Cubs/Reds/Brewers and win 8 of 9 against St. Louis, but if you believe this is likely to happen, "I'm afraid I've got some bad news...".

[Jobu]

Well, this year, it would make sense to do that because we play the Cardinals in the final series...at PNC Park.

I don't think this is correct. The schedule I'm seeing has the Cards the second to last series, with the Reds to finish the season.

[Legacy User]

Well, this year, it would make sense to do that because we play the Cardinals in the final series...at PNC Park.

I don't think this is correct. The schedule I'm seeing has the Cards the second to last series, with the Reds to finish the season.

I believe you are right Jobu. But, it's after midnight and maybe we've all had a bit too much of your rum.

[jeemie]

Well, this year, it would make sense to do that because we play the Cardinals in the final series...at PNC Park.

I don't think this is correct. The schedule I'm seeing has the Cards the second to last series, with the Reds to finish the season.

I believe you are right Jobu. But, it's after midnight and maybe we've all had a bit too much of your rum.

No- he's right- I believe I forgot to flip the calendar over to October.

OOOPS!!!

[jeemie]

A guy on the Pirates' FB page said it simply and succinctly.

"The bullpen had two days rest, and Cole was going tomorrow. You should have used it liberally".

[Legacy User]

A guy on the Pirates' FB page said it simply and succinctly.

"The bullpen had two days rest, and Cole was going tomorrow. You should have used it liberally".

I believe Clint Hurdle will quit overemphasizing the bunt before he gets away from his 6111 management style.
At least after Soria moves on from being a rental Clint can go back to his 711 style.

[jeemie]

A guy on the Pirates' FB page said it simply and succinctly.

"The bullpen had two days rest, and Cole was going tomorrow. You should have used it liberally".

I believe Clint Hurdle will quit overemphasizing the bunt before he gets away from his 6111 management style.
At least after Soria moves on from being a rental Clint can go back to his 711 style.

Neal Huntington built up this bullpen to win games the way the Royals win them.

He forgot that the manager doesn't subscribe to that notion.

[Legacy User]

A guy on the Pirates' FB page said it simply and succinctly.

"The bullpen had two days rest, and Cole was going tomorrow. You should have used it liberally".

I believe Clint Hurdle will quit overemphasizing the bunt before he gets away from his 6111 management style.
At least after Soria moves on from being a rental Clint can go back to his 711 style.

Neal Huntington built up this bullpen to win games the way the Royals win them.

He forgot that the manager doesn't subscribe to that notion.

I think two things are presently at work with Hurdle:
1. His natural inclination is to manage his bullpen the way he does, with the periodic insertion of Huey/Bastard/Camero to give Soria/Watson/Melancon a rest.
2. His starting staff is running on fumes. Cole isn't pitching like Cole. Frankie is injured/inconsistent/both. AJ is on the shelf. CMO is Jekyll & Hyde. Locke needs to start wearing a dress. Nevertheless, instead of yanking someone after 4 innings and going the Royal way he is locked into his 6111 mentality. Sadly, this demonstrates to me that he conjures a game plan and then sticks to it until extra innings, at which time he's shot his load and has to rely on what's left of Huey/Bastard/Camero/Blanton/etc.

I realize I may be somewhat ignorant of the facts that insiders may have, but it's factually correct to point out that the Pirates current payroll is still in the middle of the bottom 3rd of all payrolls. If NH's hands are financially tied than Nutting is to blame. I believe this to be the case. Others believe Nutting has authorized NH to increase payroll during the off season or @ the trade deadline. If this is true than NH is to blame and Nutting should fire NH for shopping @ the Dollar Store while others with a lesser record (and maybe somewhat lesser talent in spots) are seriously upgrading their rosters not with rentals but with players who will be around after this year. Surely some of this vast pipeline talent that the Pirates are said to have could fetch a better return than what we've seen so far?

[R_S]

So basically we better pray to god Glasnow continues his upward projection.

[Legacy User]

Neal Huntington built up this bullpen to win games the way the Royals win them.

He forgot that the manager doesn't subscribe to that notion.

I can see NH watching the game last night and saying c'mon, Clint - this is why I got you Blanton. Get him up!

[JackLambert58]

I have to save this picture:

[SteelPro]

Last night was painful. I wanted to jump into the tv and shake some sense into Hurdle. It was so apparent that Locke should be lifted. If this is an early game in June I would understand giving Locke some rope. If the Pirates were AHEAD 5 games in the standings over the Cardinals then it would be ok to try to let Mr. Nibbles chew his way out of the 5th inning. But the Pirates are in chase mode and these head to head match ups with the Cards are precious. The way Hurdle managed that game last night was flat out negligence.