Reg. Season # 13: Steelers vs. Chargers Game Comments

[bradshaw2ben]

We only crossed midfield once the entire 2nd half until the final drive.

Until our final drive, a TD drive, the farthest the offense got was to their 48 yd line (the Foster holding penalty drive) and not counting the 4th and 3 from their 47 on the same drive.

We had only 4 second half possessions:
1. moved it to their 26 (brought back by phantom holding)
2. stalled after questionable Villy penalty
3. stalled after poor run, JJ drop, and good coverage
4. scored TD

[bradshaw2ben]

the JJ drop was the one where he tapped himself on the chest and said my bad

They didn't really move away from what was working. In the second half called pass plays 7 plays out of 9 other than the TD drive.

[Havoc]

We only crossed midfield once the entire 2nd half until the final drive.

Until our final drive, a TD drive, the farthest the offense got was to their 48 yd line (the Foster holding penalty drive) and not counting the 4th and 3 from their 47 on the same drive.

We had only 4 second half possessions:
1. moved it to their 26 (brought back by phantom holding)
2. stalled after questionable Villy penalty
3. stalled after poor run, JJ drop, and good coverage
4. scored TD

That's the problem with running drives. Something usually goes wrong. You know this.

I'll take the first drive of the game, 46 yard splash play on a first down. That is how you run up the scoreboard which is what we did in the first half.

[steelcountry]

the JJ drop was the one where he tapped himself on the chest and said my bad

They didn't really move away from what was working. In the second half called pass plays 7 plays out of 9 other than the TD drive.

The RPO was when the Steelers were moving from left to right (1st or 4th Q) and was to JJ. JJ was targeted once in the 2nd and then twice in the 4th. He caught the one on the last drive so the play you're thinking of was the RPO that was knocked down before it even got to JJ.

It was a bad read by Ben and the play needs to be scrapped.

[bradshaw2ben]

In the second half, we called 2 runs out of 9 plays other than the TD drive.

P.S.: you're right that I confused this JJ incompletion with the drop.

1st off, I don't believe it's a straight up RPO (where no one knows it's a pass except for a designated receiver. At minimum, it's a different play called on each side. A pulling guard trap run to the left and a fake screen/TE to the seam play (kind of like the one that Ladarius Green had a TD on last year). I'd argue that it's more like a PA pass

2ndly, even if Ben has the option it's not a bad read. The backside DE crashes down hard and is in position to tackle Conner for a loss... he only changes direction towards Ben once Ben keeps the ball. I believe if it were an actual RPO, the RT or Jesse would have cut that backside pursuit, but they never even glance at the DE as he goes by.

[steelcountry]

In the second half, we called 2 runs out of 9 plays other than the TD drive.

P.S.: you're right that I confused this JJ incompletion with the drop.

1st off, I don't believe it's a straight up RPO (where no one knows it's a pass except for a designated receiver. At minimum, it's a different play called on each side. A pulling guard trap run to the left and a fake screen/TE to the seam play (kind of like the one that Ladarius Green had a TD on last year). I'd argue that it's more like a PA pass

2ndly, even if Ben has the option it's not a bad read. The backside DE crashes down hard and is in position to tackle Conner for a loss... he only changes direction towards Ben once Ben keeps the ball. I believe if it were an actual RPO, the RT or Jesse would have cut that backside pursuit, but they never even glance at the DE as he goes by.

I disagree on the DE but I see your point, it would have been close as to whether or not he catches him. I'll add two things:

1) no way Ben should have thrown it to JJ on that play, he was bracketed perfectly.
2) it's so typical of the Steelers to run the exact same play right after the first down play. JJ was wide open on 1st down and they think they're going to fool them again. It doesn't work like that, good teams and players recognize that almost immediately.

[jeemie]

We only crossed midfield once the entire 2nd half until the final drive.

Until our final drive, a TD drive, the farthest the offense got was to their 48 yd line (the Foster holding penalty drive) and not counting the 4th and 3 from their 47 on the same drive.

We had only 4 second half possessions:
1. moved it to their 26 (brought back by phantom holding)
2. stalled after questionable Villy penalty
3. stalled after poor run, JJ drop, and good coverage
4. scored TD

That's the problem with running drives. Something usually goes wrong. You know this.

I'll take the first drive of the game, 46 yard splash play on a first down. That is how you run up the scoreboard which is what we did in the first half.

No team has those kinds of drives all game long.

Not even New England.

[Legacy User]

I still find myself puzzled by the complaining whenever the Steelers call a running play. How often should the Steelers run the ball on first down? If Ben hands off to Conner on first down and he gets 5 yards, is that a bad play?

[Havoc]

That's the problem with running drives. Something usually goes wrong. You know this.

I'll take the first drive of the game, 46 yard splash play on a first down. That is how you run up the scoreboard which is what we did in the first half.

No team has those kinds of drives all game long.

Not even New England.

The start of the 2nd half is a tone setter. We changed. The momentum changed. We did exactly what the Chargers wanted and needed us to do.

We announced to the football universe (and our own players) that we changed from a mindset of trying to run up the scoreboard, to a mindset of trying to hang onto the lead. Edit: this was stated too strongly. What I meant was, we changed from an offense that really wanted to run up the scoreboard to an offense that wanted to both score points and cover their asses, a less aggressive offense.

It's my contention, that we would be better served if we started the 2nd half as if we were tied or maybe even behind by 10 as opposed to up by 16.

[jeemie]

That's the problem with running drives. Something usually goes wrong. You know this.

I'll take the first drive of the game, 46 yard splash play on a first down. That is how you run up the scoreboard which is what we did in the first half.

No team has those kinds of drives all game long.

Not even New England.

The start of the 2nd half is a tone setter. We changed. The momentum changed. We did exactly what the Chargers wanted and needed us to do.

We announced to the football universe (and our own players) that we changed from a mindset of trying to run up the scoreboard, to a mindset of trying to hang onto the lead.

It's my contention, that we would be better served if we started the 2nd half as if we were tied or maybe even behind by 10 as opposed to up by 16.

No we didn't.

This is a bunch of bullshit.

Running the ball on first down in no ways signals a "change from trying to score to onw of trying to hang onto the lead".

We are moving the ball on the first drive as well as we had in the first half until the phantom holding call hit.

Just stop. This is a dumb argument.

[Havoc]

No we didn't.

This is a bunch of bullshit.

Running the ball on first down in no ways signals a "change from trying to score to onw of trying to hang onto the lead".

We are moving the ball on the first drive as well as we had in the first half until the phantom holding call hit.

Just stop. This is a dumb argument.

If it's a bunch of bullshit, then why, after the Chargers scored a TD on their first series, did we try to go back on our next series to what was working in the first half?

If it's a bunch of bullshit, then why, when we absolutely had to score a TD, did we go back to what we did in the first half when we ran up the scoreboard? (our only 2nd half TD)

I'm pretty confident the fact we had a 16 point lead and the coaches had halftime to mull this over is why we approached offense the way we did to start the 3rd quarter.

[Stosh-67]

Yeah... actually TJ Watt nearly got a pick and I thought Fort held his own. VW, Bostic, Dupree... those were bigger problems.

And Haden got tooled by Keenan Allen at least a couple times I saw. There's no way Haden can cover him unless he reads the route combos right and guesses right, like he did on the should have been pick.

Dupree still looked injured. How often did Ola get cycled in?

I would have tried more of him. Is he only a pass rusher?

Ola created a holding penalty, and played the wildcat play perfectly. He played as much as Chickillo has played recently and did very well, I thought.

Ola only 10 snaps.
So at least 2 positive plays in 10 snaps.
Chick - 11
Dupree - 54
Bostic - 11
Fort - 52

[Havoc]

We are moving the ball on the first drive as well as we had in the first half until the phantom holding call hit.

Good grief man, we had a 46 yd splash play in the passing game on a first down on our 1st series in the first half to their 1 yd line. You are wrong.

[Legacy User]

The NFL needed to find some way to recoup some of San Diegos lost revenues from the relocation of the team, so we got chosen as
a sacrificial lamb. Havent watched alot of Chargers games this season but it wouldnt shock me if there were more teams who got fucked over by the refs as well.

[Orangesteel]

The NFL needed to find some way to recoup some of San Diegos lost revenues from the relocation of the team, so we got chosen as
a sacrificial lamb. Havent watched alot of Chargers games this season but it wouldnt shock me if there were more teams who got fucked over by the refs as well.

I live in Seattle, and while I didn’t watch the game, I recall hearing this and that about certain calls in that game too. Not surprising coming from that fan base, but perhaps in line with what you are getting at.

Also - remember the promo they ran during the game about the new LAC stadium in Carson? Wasn’t that a little odd and a little misplaced considering the game was in the Burgh?

Now you guys got me paranoid. Doesn’t excuse the fact that we really messed that one up.

[Havoc]

I amended my post that Jeemie objected to.

What I meant was, on the opening drive to start the 2nd half, we changed from an offense that really wanted to run up the scoreboard to an offense that wanted to both score points and cover their asses, a less aggressive offense.

I'm pretty confident, the fact we had a 16 point lead and the coaches had halftime to mull this over had something to do with it.

[jeemie]

We are moving the ball on the first drive as well as we had in the first half until the phantom holding call hit.

Good grief man, we had a 46 yd splash play in the passing game on a first down on our 1st series in the first half to their 1 yd line. You are wrong.

I've already called this out as specious logic?

No team...not even the Pats or Saints...have 40+ yard splash plays every single drive.

Your logic is dumb.

[Orangesteel]

Is Havoc calling for 40 yard splash plays on every drive?

How many 20 yard throws beyond the first drive one to AB and the broken play to AB touchdown did we have? Did we have any 20+ yard throws in the second half?

[Orangesteel]

The overthrow to Hunter would have been about 35-40 yards.

[jeemie]

Is Havoc calling for 40 yard splash plays on every drive?

How many 20 yard throws beyond the first drive one to AB and the broken play to AB touchdown did we have? Did we have any 20+ yard throws in the second half?

So?

By no means does this show we "stopped being aggressive"

And Havoc kind of WAS calling for big splash plays on every drive, and equates the lack of them to "lack of aggression".

That's dumb.

[Legacy User]

The NFL needed to find some way to recoup some of San Diegos lost revenues from the relocation of the team, so we got chosen as
a sacrificial lamb. Havent watched alot of Chargers games this season but it wouldnt shock me if there were more teams who got fucked over by the refs as well.

I live in Seattle, and while I didn’t watch the game, I recall hearing this and that about certain calls in that game too. Not surprising coming from that fan base, but perhaps in line with what you are getting at.

Also - remember the promo they ran during the game about the new LAC stadium in Carson? Wasn’t that a little odd and a little misplaced considering the game was in the Burgh?

Now you guys got me paranoid. Doesn’t excuse the fact that we really messed that one up.

yup thought it was really odd and the thought of getting fkd over by the refs crossed my mind.

[Havoc]

We are moving the ball on the first drive as well as we had in the first half until the phantom holding call hit.

Good grief man, we had a 46 yd splash play in the passing game on a first down on our 1st series in the first half to their 1 yd line. You are wrong.

I've already called this out as specious logic?

No team...not even the Pats or Saints...have 40+ yard splash plays every single drive.

Your logic is dumb.

Calling it specious logic doesn't make is so.

The specious logic in our discussion is your argument. "We were moving the football" is specious logic. I mean, who wants to argue against "moving the football"? Well, I do.

While you are at it, why don't you argue for a return of Bell centered offense, We moved the football. That was a good offense, but not a great one.

Let me be clear, my beef is only with the opening drive of the 2nd half.

And no, of course I am not calling for splash plays in the passing game on every drive (thanks Orange). But, if JuJu is left wide open downfield on every play with nothing between him and the goal line, then throw him the football.

We ran the football on the opening drive of the second half all 3 first downs at 3.6 ypc.

We went away from what rang up the scoreboard in the first half on the opening drive of the 3rd quarter, and I'm confident that if we didn't have a 16 point halftime lead we would not have done so.

The coaches are telling you the answer when they tried to go back to what was working in the first half after the Chargers scored a TD on their first drive.

[Havoc]

More thoughts...

The only reason I am not calling for splash plays in the passing game on every possession is we cannot get them on every possession.

Splash plays are often part of teams running up scoreboards. Splash plays in the passing game significantly increase a QB's Y/A. Splash in the passing game was part of our big first half in this game (the 46 yarder on a 1st down to their 1 yd line on our first possession of the game). First possession splash gave us momentum.

We also had a 28 yd passing TD on a 1st down in the first half, and we should have had a 34 yd passing TD on a 1st down in the first half (Ben missed a ridiculously wide open Hunter).

SEP. 6, 2018, AT 12:35 PM

For A Passing League, The NFL Still Doesn’t Pass Enough

The biggest culprit is first down, the most traditional run situation. It’s here where NFL coaches are consistently missing an opportunity to pass, particularly against defenses that have stacked the box or are playing at least seven defenders close to the line of scrimmage.

https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/for-a-passing-league-the-nfl-still-doesnt-pass-enough/

Chargers had at least 7 defenders close to the LOS on all three first downs on our first possession of the 2nd half when we ran the football on all 3 first downs at 3.6 ypc.

[bradshaw2ben]

The Steelers were kicking SD's ass with the run game, right up until the ridiculous holding call on Foster. They drove from their 25 all the way to LA's 26 with run-heavy football. If not for that call, they were driving to either 26-7 or 30-7. It's a completely different game at that point.

We only made it to their 48 when we got the holding penalty on Foster.

Conner ran to the 26...

1st & 10 at PIT 46
-10 Yard Penalty
(11:40) J.Conner right tackle pushed ob at LAC 26 for 22 yards (J.Addae). PENALTY on PIT-R.Foster, Offensive Holding, 10 yards, enforced at LAC 48 - No Play.

[Havoc]

The Steelers were kicking SD's ass with the run game, right up until the ridiculous holding call on Foster. They drove from their 25 all the way to LA's 26 with run-heavy football. If not for that call, they were driving to either 26-7 or 30-7. It's a completely different game at that point.

We only made it to their 48 when we got the holding penalty on Foster.

Conner ran to the 26...

1st & 10 at PIT 46
-10 Yard Penalty
(11:40) J.Conner right tackle pushed ob at LAC 26 for 22 yards (J.Addae). PENALTY on PIT-R.Foster, Offensive Holding, 10 yards, enforced at LAC 48 - No Play.

We had 3 runs on the drive up until the penalty play, all on first down at 3.6 ypc. Hardly an ass kicking.

And yes, I know Conner made it to the 26 on a play that was called back for holding. But since the play was nullified, we only made it to their 48 (or the 47 if you want to count 4th down)