Jervis Stenosis Jones, may wanna Avoid Lloyd...

[StillMadAtSlobber]

As I said previously "looks like" speaks more to how they play the game then physical size.

Chad Brown, unlike Shazier wasn't getting trucked by 200lbs RBs and WRs. Larry Foote was even smaller but his football IQ made him faster then Shazier on the field.

I dont buy that at all.

1) Foote's IQ was non-existant for the beginning of his career, for at least the same period of time that Shaz has been a Steelers
2) Foote had a 1st quality QB of the D.
3) Foote was never fast on the field. He was in the right place a bunch of times though.

[StillMadAtSlobber]

"Shazier is stupid"

Good one. I'm gonna call it "learning on the job."

Larry Foote was equally stupid his first year on the field.

[Legacy User]

That just means they might not have picked the right ILBs yet, not that switching to a different type of ILB is not called for, or that LeBeau didn't have any input there.

If you think Farrior and Foote in their primes could cover in today's league, I laugh in your face.

They had trouble covering back then as soon as any team went spread on them.

They looked good back then because few teams could run a precision quick spread passing game.

Now almost any team can.

You shouldn't be laughing when you have a mouth full of horse shit. Larry Foote was flat out better then Shazier last year...not that he was good but at least he could tackle and didn't stand around with his thumb up his ass trying to figure out what to do. Passing is only up a few percentage points since 2008. And most of it is the increased usage of WR screens. TEs and RBs haven't got faster, no one ask's ILBs to cover WR's.

1) Foote's IQ was non-existant for the beginning of his career, for at least the same period of time that Shaz has been a Steelers
2) Foote had a 1st quality QB of the D.
3) Foote was never fast on the field. He was in the right place a bunch of times though.

1 and 3 mean virtually the same thing. Foote was much better in coverage and had a much higher football IQ coming out of UM. If Foote was as fast as Shazier he would be named Willis.

[jeemie]

You shouldn't be laughing when you have a mouth full of horse shit. Larry Foote was flat out better then Shazier last year...not that he was good but at least he could tackle and didn't stand around with his thumb up his ass trying to figure out what to do. Passing is only up a few percentage points since 2008. And most of it is the increased usage of WR screens. TEs and RBs haven't got faster, no one ask's ILBs to cover WR's.

I wasn't comparing Larry Foote to Ryan Shazier. They both were not good last year.

I said...Larry Foote in his prime was not good at coverage. Whenever there was a team that could exploit him, he was exploited.

And RBs and TEs may not be faster, but the rules make it easier for them to be used in the pass game.

You draft a Larry Foote-type today...you are asking for trouble.

The idea of drafting an ILB with near-Shazier speed is a great idea...Shazier himself may not be.

[bradshaw2ben]

And most of it is the increased usage of WR screens.

Exactly my brother. That's why a guy who has cement feet can't survive long in the ILB spot of an NFL team: not that I am a Shazier fan by any stretch but I understand that he at least has the capability of learning his role and of getting to the edges as a defender.

[955876]

Larry Foote was flat out better then Shazier last year.

13 year vet outplayed a rookie. And a rookie who missed a bunch of time at that. What a shocker.

[Legacy User]

The vet is now likely better then a 5 flat guy.

The vet had a decent number of picks and PDs in college. I think Shazier had one pick and three or four PDs his jr and sr seasons combined.

The fact Mosely was in the pro bowl and Shazier was poor and had three seperate injuries that cost him a half season in games. There is obviously no proof Cowher/Lebeau would have taken Mosely, but they knew football IQ. Shazier isn't close to where Kirkland, Holmes, Foote, Bell, Oslavsky, or Brown were in play diagnosis.

[Legacy User]

Larry Foote was flat out better then Shazier last year.

13 year vet outplayed a rookie. And a rookie who missed a bunch of time at that. What a shocker.

Theres apparently a lot more leeway and rope for JJ as opposed to the rookie Shazier. I didn't really like either pick
but im more hopeful with Shaziers prospects than JJs. just my .02 cents

[Legacy User]

Larry Foote was flat out better then Shazier last year.

13 year vet outplayed a rookie. And a rookie who missed a bunch of time at that. What a shocker.

Theres apparently a lot more leeway and rope for JJ as opposed to the rookie Shazier. I didn't really like either pick
but im more hopeful with Shaziers prospects than JJs. just my .02 cents

Agree.

Shazier, to me, has a much better chance of being successful than JJ. That's just my perception, not stating it as fact.

JJ needs to show he can get after the passer since I do believe that is the role they imagined for him when he was drafted. This is the make or break season for Jervis. - Capt Obvious

[Gonzo]

The idea to draft an ILB with speed is obviously a grand idea. But it is of no value if they can't play the position.

I have more hope for Jones than shazier.

And the injuries for shazier may well be bad luck, but injury was a concern when drafting him.

[Legacy User]

The idea to draft an ILB with speed is obviously a grand idea. But it is of no value if they can't play the position.

I have more hope for Jones than shazier.

And the injuries for shazier may well be bad luck, but injury was a concern when drafting him.

Good thing Jervis has been healthy....

[Legacy User]

Im more confident in JJ because he does know where to go. Although my confidence doesn't expect him to be much more than in the Haggans or a little better range. Shazier isn't dumb but he doesn't seem to have that football instinct. Foote showed much better instinct right away and IIRC started right away in place of Bell. Foote just needed to clean up his technique so he wouldn't get trucked and embarrassed at times.

So I think the two first rounders give us one adequate OLB and one frustrating ILB.

[V DUB]

Im more confident in JJ because he does know where to go. Although my confidence doesn't expect him to be much more than in the Haggans or a little better range. Shazier isn't dumb but he doesn't seem to have that football instinct. Foote showed much better instinct right away and IIRC started right away in place of Bell. Foote just needed to clean up his technique so he wouldn't get trucked and embarrassed at times.

So I think the two first rounders give us one adequate OLB and one frustrating ILB.

WTF? Shazier showed more in 1 preseason game than Foote did his 1st 2 years. The only reason Foote got a hat was Bell, the thick framed prototype ILB, couldn't stay healthy. Bell displaced Foote any & all times he was able to get on the field. Foote was a solid backup that knew the D, & LeBeau fell into his love of vet reliability. ..nothing more or less.

[Legacy User]

Jones has had one fluke upperbody injury.

Shazier didn't make it through 10 plays of NFL contact before he had his first boo boo that took him out a month. That was followed by two more lower body injuries that took him out for half the season. You might even think that whoever brought up the F word was right.

Foote started every game from 2004 to 2009. He was a good ILB. Which is far more then it looks like Shaz will be.

[Legacy User]

[quote="straightoutofClemson"]Jones has had one fluke upperbody injury.

Shazier didn't make it through 10 plays of NFL contact before he had his first boo boo that took him out a month. That was followed by two more lower body injuries that took him out for half the season. You might even think that whoever brought up the F word was right.

Foote started every game from 2004 to 2009. He was a good ILB. Which is far more then it looks like Shaz will be.[/quote]

Jones has a "fluke injury" while your agenda driven punching bag has a "boo boo."

It's a fucking broken record with you.

[Legacy User]

Jones has had one fluke upperbody injury.

Shazier didn't make it through 10 plays of NFL contact before he had his first boo boo that took him out a month. That was followed by two more lower body injuries that took him out for half the season. You might even think that whoever brought up the F word was right.

Foote started every game from 2004 to 2009. He was a good ILB. Which is far more then it looks like Shaz will be.

Jones has a "fluke injury" while your agenda driven punching bag has a "boo boo."

It's a fucking broken record with you.

Well, Tomlin was quoted as calling one of Shaz's injuries a boo boo, but Ziv-Clem is certainly taking that and running with it further than I'm sure Tomlin would have intended.

[jeemie]

So to sum this up, Shazier has had one season where he was injury-prone (a concern) and those injuries probably kept him from progressing as he might- but he already is a bust.

Meanwhile, Jones was anointed the starter from day one, has not produced in two years, but anyone judging him already is being too hasty because he had an injury this season that kept him out a while.

As near as I can tell, this is because Jones "looks like someone Cowher/LeBeau might have drafted, whereas Shazier is that dumb pussy speed-only type that Tomlin loves that probably made Dick LeBeau pack up and leave town".

Have I summed up Zivco/Clemson's position fairly well?

[Legacy User]

So to sum this up, Shazier has had one season where he was injury-prone (a concern) and those injuries probably kept him from progressing as he might- but he already is a bust.

Meanwhile, Jones was anointed the starter from day one, has not produced in two years, but anyone judging him already is being too hasty because he had an injury this season that kept him out a while.

As near as I can tell, this is because Jones "looks like someone Cowher/LeBeau might have drafted, whereas Shazier is that dumb pussy speed-only type that Tomlin loves that probably made Dick LeBeau pack up and leave town".

Have I summed up Zivco/Clemson's position fairly well?

Yes. I'd say you just crushed it out of the park.

[Legacy User]

So to sum this up, Shazier has had one season where he was injury-prone (a concern) and those injuries probably kept him from progressing as he might- but he already is a bust.

Meanwhile, Jones was anointed the starter from day one, has not produced in two years, but anyone judging him already is being too hasty because he had an injury this season that kept him out a while.

As near as I can tell, this is because Jones "looks like someone Cowher/LeBeau might have drafted, whereas Shazier is that dumb pussy speed-only type that Tomlin loves that probably made Dick LeBeau pack up and leave town".

Have I summed up Zivco/Clemson's position fairly well?

WRONG WRONG WRONG

No, I didn't say Shazier was a bust yet. What I said is he was he had shitty college tape, he was shitty last year, and three seperate lower body injuries costing him more then half the season strongly suggests he can't handle NFL contact. And the boo boo comments suggest Tomlin now thinks he's a pussy...that's about as bad as Parcells calling Glenn "she" because of missed time to injury.

Jones was at something like a 14 sack pace prior to a fluke wrist injury. He had elite college tape. And my objection isn't so much that Jones will be a great player, merely that in this case, Colbert made the right selection. In fact, even with Jones missed time he has outplayed the two edge rushers selected well in front of him.

On the other hand Mosely was taken right after Shazier...

The more you try to put words in my mouth the dumber you look.

[Legacy User]

I seriously doubt Tomlin thinks Shazier is a pussy.

[langer]

Now he was on a 14-sack pace? Lol whatever

If Jarvis ever touches 10 sacks as a Steelers player, I will change my user name and mea culpa hosannas to Clem on Twitter. Much as it is vital I don't see that ever happening.

[Legacy User]

Make it simple they both suck and were complete mistakes. The Steeler are becoming the Raiders by drafting straight line speed and ignoring football players. Archer is another prime example of this. If we take Vic Beasley I will be extremely pissed.

[Ice]

Make it simple they both suck and were complete mistakes. The Steeler are becoming the Raiders by drafting straight line speed and ignoring football players. Archer is another prime example of this. If we take Vic Beasley I will be extremely pissed.

JJ didn't exactly flash straight line speed.

[Legacy User]

Make it simple they both suck and were complete mistakes. The Steeler are becoming the Raiders by drafting straight line speed and ignoring football players. Archer is another prime example of this. If we take Vic Beasley I will be extremely pissed.

JJ didn't exactly flash straight line speed.

You are correct but he did not flash football player to me either... A first round pick and we still have to rely on old guys to play. Wonder when the Steelers will hit on an OLB again.

[Legacy User]

Make it simple they both suck and were complete mistakes. The Steeler are becoming the Raiders by drafting straight line speed and ignoring football players. Archer is another prime example of this. If we take Vic Beasley I will be extremely pissed.

Agree w u on football players....

We need some of them on D

[Legacy User]

So to sum this up, Shazier has had one season where he was injury-prone (a concern) and those injuries probably kept him from progressing as he might- but he already is a bust.

Meanwhile, Jones was anointed the starter from day one, has not produced in two years, but anyone judging him already is being too hasty because he had an injury this season that kept him out a while.

As near as I can tell, this is because Jones "looks like someone Cowher/LeBeau might have drafted, whereas Shazier is that dumb pussy speed-only type that Tomlin loves that probably made Dick LeBeau pack up and leave town".

Have I summed up Zivco/Clemson's position fairly well?

WRONG WRONG WRONG

No, I didn't say Shazier was a bust yet. What I said is he was he had shitty college tape, he was shitty last year, and three seperate lower body injuries costing him more then half the season strongly suggests he can't handle NFL contact. And the boo boo comments suggest Tomlin now thinks he's a pussy...that's about as bad as Parcells calling Glenn "she" because of missed time to injury.

Jones was at something like a 14 sack pace prior to a fluke wrist injury. He had elite college tape. And my objection isn't so much that Jones will be a great player, merely that in this case, Colbert made the right selection. In fact, even with Jones missed time he has outplayed the two edge rushers selected well in front of him.

On the other hand Mosely was taken right after Shazier...

The more you try to put words in my mouth the dumber you look.

I'm sorry but Tomlin was NOT calling Shaz's injury a boo boo in order to call him a pussy. You really do read what you want into things, don't you?

[Legacy User]

Now he was on a 14-sack pace? Lol whatever

If Jarvis ever touches 10 sacks as a Steelers player, I will change my user name and new culls Clem on Twitter. Much as it is vital I don't see that ever happening.

He had 2 sacks in 9 quarters before the injury. 64 qters in a season. That's slightly more then 14 sacks. Keep in mind he also drew a facemask that nullified another sack. But I don't think he will be a 14 sack guy. 16 of those qters will be against the top 2 OTs in the NFL. The sack vs the Browns came vs the TE, teams will not leave a TE on him in the future.

But if you want to make an avatar wager on 8-10...

I'm sorry but Tomlin was NOT calling Shaz's injury a boo boo in order to call him a pussy. You really do read what you want into things, don't you?

I can think of no other reason except to humiliate him back to practice. Can't make the club from the tub...unless the rep of the GM and HC are at stake.

[Legacy User]

Now he was on a 14-sack pace? Lol whatever

If Jarvis ever touches 10 sacks as a Steelers player, I will change my user name and new culls Clem on Twitter. Much as it is vital I don't see that ever happening.

He had 2 sacks in 9 quarters before the injury. 64 qters in a season. That's slightly more then 14 sacks. Keep in mind he also drew a facemask that nullified another sack. But I don't think he will be a 14 sack guy. 16 of those qters will be against the top 2 OTs in the NFL. The sack vs the Browns came vs the TE, teams will not leave a TE on him in the future.

But if you want to make an avatar wager on 8-10...

I'm sorry but Tomlin was NOT calling Shaz's injury a boo boo in order to call him a pussy. You really do read what you want into things, don't you?

I can think of no other reason except to humiliate him back to practice. Can't make the club from the tub...unless the rep of the GM and HC are at stake.

Or Tomlin was joking, and there's no need to read into it further.

[Legacy User]

Actually, as I Google " shazier boo boo" and read the resulting articles, I see that when Shazier was injured there was some concern as to how serious it was. Calling it a boo boo was Tomlin's way of putting it out through the media to the public at large that Shazier's injury wasn't serious and that he would be ready to play shortly. I don't see any indication that Tomlin didn't feel Shaz should have been injured in the first place or that the injury shouldn't have sidelined Shaz or that Tomlin was mocking Shaz for being fragile, soft, or a pussy, or that Tomlin was goading Shaz into returning faster. In fact at one point, Shaz himself called it a boo boo.

[Legacy User]

Actually, as I Google " shazier boo boo" and read the resulting articles, I see that when Shazier was injured there was some concern as to how serious it was. Calling it a boo boo was Tomlin's way of putting it out through the media to the public at large that Shazier's injury wasn't serious and that he would be ready to play shortly. I don't see any indication that Tomlin didn't feel Shaz should have been injured in the first place or that the injury shouldn't have sidelined Shaz or that Tomlin was mocking Shaz for being fragile, soft, or a pussy, or that Tomlin was goading Shaz into returning faster. In fact at one point, Shaz himself called it a boo boo.

This is the truth.