Pens Offseason thread

[Legacy User]

Honestly it doesn't matter what they do, pens aren't winning shit. Sid will continue to do whatever he wants & bring down the PP, heard coaches wanted him down low on left side to pick up rebounds & slide into the slot. He instead continued to go to RC & turn the puck over on cross ice passes. Heard coaches and management brought kessel in to be Geno's new Neal. Sid has made it known that he expects to play with kessel so now Horn will play with Geno which we all know is painful to watch

[Hacksaw Jim Duggan]

Whoever, Crosby, and Kessel will make a dominant line.

Perron Malkin Hornqvist will do just fine.


It'll probably be Kunitz there. Whatever.

I'd say power play quarterback was just as big of an issue as Crosbys refusal to shoot. Letang is a shit QB and was injured half the time anyway. Pouliot should take over midseason and flourish.

[Legacy User]

Malkin and Horn were terrible together, Geno is unpredictable and Horn is the antithesis of that. Every national hockey writer that has written or podcasted on the subject have said Malkin is logical fit for Phil especially because of lack of chemistry between he and Horn. Colby Armstrong actually said same thing as well as Darcy Tucker. Both exteamates of kessel.

I agree letang is not a PP QB but sid at RC=huge problem. He was at fault for 7 of 11 SHG we gave up

[Legacy User]

Kessel will thrive with either Malkin or Crosby, and although Horny and Geno didnt work well together that doesnt mean they cant going forward. I've seen line predictions that put Horny on the left of Crosby and kessel on the right, point is, its too early to speculate.

DJ, are you saying there's a quote out there that Crosby is "demanding" to play with Kessel? I havent seen any statements like that, if you're just saying that he said he'd "like" to play with Kessel, who wouldnt?

Also, whats the source on the coaches being disappointed in Crosby's performance on the PP? I havent heard anything about that either, not saying you're not right, just wondering

[Donnie Brasco]

Malkin and Horn were terrible together, Geno is unpredictable and Horn is the antithesis of that. Every national hockey writer that has written or podcasted on the subject have said Malkin is logical fit for Phil especially because of lack of chemistry between he and Horn. Colby Armstrong actually said same thing as well as Darcy Tucker. Both exteamates of kessel.

Yea but who else was on that line w/ Geno/Horn? Comeau. Basically you had 2 guys with Malkin who were straight line players. It makes 3 guys to form an effective line, not just 2. I think Perron-Geno- Horn can be effective

[Legacy User]

Comeau actually played well with Geno, I was disappointed he got overpaid since I would have kept him at right price.

I just don't see Horn ever meshing with Geno stylistically and he is RW only. So he won't be on Sid's LW.

From what dejan and Mark madden have both said sid expects to play with kessel and has let the coaches know it. Dejan said last season after talking to one of the coaches that they were not happy with sid not listening on PP strategy. He named no one but sounded like he had talked to RT.

Players should not run the team, sid wanted kun and duper to stay, now look at those contracts, wouldn't play with Iggy. He should have no choice in who he plays with. Coaches should set lines to get the most out of both Star centers

[Legacy User]

rom what dejan and Mark madden have both said sid expects to play with kessel and has let the coaches know it. Dejan said last season after talking to one of the coaches that they were not happy with sid not listening on PP strategy. He named no one but sounded like he had talked to RT.

I wouldnt believe either one of those guys, especially Madden

Putting Sid with Kessel isnt the worst thing by the way, I think its a good problem to have considering who was playing in the top six last year

Other than media and fan speculation I havent heard or read any direct quotes about Sid demanding to play with certain players, Ive seen him in interviews saying he prefers certain players. I'm not saying its not true, but I think we'd have something more concrete than he said she said by now

Teams in any sport do try to keep their superstars happy, nothing wrong with it, but I dont think Sid is or ever has been effecting who the GM signs or not when it comes to the contracts of Duper or Kuni, that was Shero being a moron

[Legacy User]

Malkin and Horn were terrible together, Geno is unpredictable and Horn is the antithesis of that. Every national hockey writer that has written or podcasted on the subject have said Malkin is logical fit for Phil especially because of lack of chemistry between he and Horn. Colby Armstrong actually said same thing as well as Darcy Tucker. Both exteamates of kessel.

Yea but who else was on that line w/ Geno/Horn? Comeau. Basically you had 2 guys with Malkin who were straight line players. It makes 3 guys to form an effective line, not just 2. I think Perron-Geno- Horn can be effective

I believe JR said they were planning on putting Plotnikov with Geno, which aligns with the rumors they were trying to get a russian to make Geno happier (which is dumb, but whatever). I have no idea what Plotnikov's stengths or weaknesses are, so I have no idea if that's a smart move or not. If they do go with that, however, I hope they actually give Plotnikov time to develop there. Going from the KHL to the NHL is going to be an adjustment, and moving him all over and in and out of the lineup isn't going to help that.

[Legacy User]

Plotnikov is offensively skilled, his main drawback is his skating, but from what Ive read our scouts think the smaller rinks will negate that.

JR has hinted at him playing with Malkin, and if he's good enough we'll see him there, which is what I hope as I dont want Kunitz or Duper in the top six this year

[Legacy User]

Force I don't think sid and kessel would be bad together but I know Geno and Horn were bad together. Sid on the other hand played much better with Horn than any other pens wings. Their #s together speak for themselves.

I just want to see team work to strengths of both centers.
My lines. Perron sid horn, they started great last year
Plotnikov, Geno, Phil, like the potential there, if it doesn't work then try something else.
Kun Sutter duper solid 3rd line
Wilson sundquist sheary or farnum

[Donnie Brasco]

From 30 thoughts:
http://www.sportsnet.ca/hockey/nhl/30-t ... h-to-find/

15. With time to decompress from the Phil Kessel trade, it’s clear that was one tricky negotiation. According to several sources, it looked dead on Sunday, about 72 hours before it happened. The Penguins were adamant Derrick Pouliot was not to be included. The Maple Leafs said no to keeping $2.5 million of Kessel’s salary per season, then no to $2 million, before agreeing to $1.2 million. There was a time Toronto agreed to take Rob Scuderi’s contract. That didn’t happen, but there were multiple denials Chris Kunitz was ever discussed. The Maple Leafs would not comment. Penguins GM Jim Rutherford didn’t want to address all this, simply saying, “We wanted Kessel because he was the best player for us.”


16. At the end of the day, Kessel was traded because he was Toronto’s most marketable player they were willing to deal. He could get the best return, including cap space. Nothing else excited them and bringing back the same group was unacceptable to Brendan Shanahan. There’s no doubt this was unfulfilled potential for him and for the team. He’s a lightning rod, a polarizing figure and is responsible for that. But the toughest thing the Maple Leafs lose is a talented player who (for the most part) could ignore the market noise. You need guys like that in Canada, who either embrace it (Subban) or tune it out (Sedins). That’s hard to find. And I think there are some charities who will really miss him. He did a lot, very quietly.


17. Rutherford on Brandon Sutter: “I’m not planning to move him. I like him. We have 10 guys who can play in our top nine — including Beau Bennett. But, we are up against the cap pretty good, so we’ll have to do something.” I’d heard Chicago likes Sutter, but with Artem Anisimov ensconced, there doesn’t seem to be a fit.

18. The Penguins’ GM credited assistant Tom Fitzgerald with pushing to sign Russian free agent Sergei Plotnikov, who the Penguins hope can play in their top six. Fitzgerald said he noticed Plotnikov upon arrival at the World Championships.

“He just stood out to me, very detailed. He played centre in (the first game I saw), moved well, straight-line player. The next game, he moved to the wing and was very effective there. Against the Swedes, he played on the left side with Ovechkin.” He became more attractive when the team realized he was still going to be on an entry-level contract, because you know the cost.

“What’s the risk here?” Fitzgerald added. “He never turns his back on the play… stops and starts, supports the puck, plays a way that you have to play to win in the playoffs.”

Fitzgerald also saw some YouTube videos where Plotnikov fought.

“We’re not going to ask him to do that, but it shows he’s tough. Not afraid to stick up for himself.”

[Legacy User]

Brian dumolin resigned to a 2 year deal for 1.6 million, 800,000 cap hit. One way contract. Hopefully he gets a legit shot to play. We won't be able to trade scuds but even at his steep price he should be no more than a #7 defenseman

[Legacy User]

I'd imagine he'll get plenty time to play if it's a one way deal.

[Hacksaw Jim Duggan]

Comeau didn't play well with Malkin so much as it was Malkin making Comeau look good. The amount of offense that died on Comeau's stick last season, including preinjury, was heartwrenching.

[Legacy User]

Malkin had more success making comeau look good than Horn. Hopefully the coaches are not that fuckin stupid to put them together again

[Legacy User]

Comeau didn't play well with Malkin so much as it was Malkin making Comeau look good. The amount of offense that died on Comeau's stick last season, including preinjury, was heartwrenching.

I agree,and the same thing goes for Kunitz, if he was able to catch up to the play in the offensive zone, he either flubbed shots, missed by a mile or was pick pocketed.

No matter the line combo's we have better options this year

[Legacy User]

I will be hoping for the best, I am just losing faith in this group, I hope they prove me wrong

[Legacy User]

My level of faith will depend heavily on how they flesh out the bottom 6. If they're a top heavy 2 line team with a patchwork bottom 6 consisting largely of inexpensive castoffs (because we have no cap room for anything more than that) then the Pens aren't winning anything. Yeah the top 2 lines will light it up during the regular season and get everybody's dick hard, and then get shut down in the playoffs once again while everyone wonders why we can't get secondary scoring or why we have no depth to roll 4 quality lines.

Last year the team said they wanted grit and character, now JR is saying the opposite. There is no seemingly clear vision or commitment to building toward a certain model. Now according to JR's recent comments it sounds like they want to be what the 2010 Caps were......and we all know how well that worked out.

I'd love to know exactly what deal was on the table when the Leafs were willing to take Scuderi's contract. That would have gone a long way toward filling out depth.

[Legacy User]

Last year the team said they wanted grit and character, now JR is saying the opposite.

I'm not sure of the overall plan, but JR said he was going to get a top six winger and thats exactly what he did

The acquisition of anyone else will depend on the trade of Sutter/Kunitz/Scuderi, one or more these guys will have to be moved to take on anymore salary.

The willingness to trade these guys is there, finding a partner is the problem

The bottom six lines could look like this

Kunitz-Sutter-Dupuis
XXXX-Sundqvist-Bennett

Not too bad if healthy

[Legacy User]

Not too bad if healthy. But if not healthy (and when was the last time we could stay healthy) then we got nothing. The contracts for Duper, Kunitz, and Scuderi are crippling. And IMO these next two seasons could very well be wasted bridge years to getting them off the books before they can really improve the team. Unless a team like Arizona wants to just get to the salary floor I'm not sure we'll see anybody wanting to trade for these guys unless they're throw-ins in some other large deal(s).

I wonder how involved Babcock was in the Kessel negotiations. I wonder if he thought Scuderi could be a short term and reliable fit for his system while some of the prospects mature. It doesn't strike me that he would want to begin his makeover with other teams' throw-in players if he couldn't use them.

[Hacksaw Jim Duggan]

In a sense, the Penguins will probably have the same roster for the next two seasons if they are unable to trade Kunitz or Scuderi. Dupuis is too much of a fan/city darling to be traded. It was made worse by his serious injury from a value and "how dare they trade the injured player!" standpoint.

I haven't taken a gander at the FA options at 3C next season, but I'm really hoping a veteran who had a terrible season last year gets a "show-me" contract as the 4C this year and lights it up. From there, you move him to 3C and trade Sutter's rights at the TDL or in the offseason. Or, hope Sundqvist emerges.

The Penguins were stupid....very...very...stupid in wasting assets to create a good bottom 6. Winnik was hot dog shit and cost premium picks.

They added an elite winger in the top 6 this offseason (you know, the same fucking thing they should have been doing the past 10 years) and...surprise...surprise...players get moved down and all the sudden it looks like the team has depth.

Kunitz Sutter and Dupuis looks like a hell of a line if we're going off past accolades. I don't think they really mesh...and I wouldn't be surprised if Dupuis plays on line 1. We'll see how it goes.

Either way, the Penguins bottom 6 is fine because they added Plotnikov and Kessel to bump everyone down. Getting rid of fucking awful players like Craig Adams and letting the Wilsons, Bennetts and Sundqvists of the world play in the bottom 6 is addition by subtraction and then some.

You just got to hope the Penguins get 10ish million in cap relief with Kunitz, Scuderi, and Sutter very soon. That's the best outcome.
Still, I think the team has the luxury of (finally) standing pat in this case, especially when you figure the only decent-sized contract it has to really worry about these upcoming years will belong to Maatta. The cap will go up, they'll definitely not pay Sutter, and everyone will be happy.
A foundation of Crosby and Malkin ( who will continue to look like fucking saints when they're making 8-9 million compared to Stamkos making 13), Letang, Maatta, Pouliot, Fleury, Kessel, etc. allows the Penguins to not have to worry about giving away 1st rounders. This one trade (for Kessel) did so much in terms of setting players in roles for the next decade. There will hardly be any movement from that group of players, thus no reason to drastically trade prospects/picks. The farm system will likely be one of the best in the league 3-4 years from now. Quote me on that one.

[Legacy User]

Stamkos didn't sign a new deal yet that I saw. Where are you getting 13 million? That would be ridiculous, toews & Kane each got 10.6 & I believe that is tops in league going into next year. I could see him maybe getting 11 per yr, not 13 but he still is not worth that kind of money.

[Hacksaw Jim Duggan]

It was an exaggeration.

[Ice]

Farnham signed to a 1 year, two way deal.

[Legacy User]

Isn't there a max % of cap space allotted to one player in hockey? So that way no player can make more than 15% of total cap. I just threw 15 out there but I think it's something like that

[Ice]

Hacksaw, if in 3-4 years the Pens have one of the best farm systems in the league, I will hop in my car, drive to your home town, and buy ya a keg of your beer of choice.

I do think the new WBS coach was a great hire on paper, though. That should help. With NHL head coaching experience, he may pull a Bylsma up to the big team if things go south next season or two. He has all sorts of connections to the management team.

[Ice]

Beau Bennett signed, 1 year deal, 800,000.

Domenik Simon signed, 3 years, ELC.

Pens interestingly rumored to be pursuing Cody Franson, among a couple other teams.

[Legacy User]

A little more on Simon, could be better than we think

http://penguins.nhl.com/club/news.htm?id=774911

[Donnie Brasco]

Beau Bennett signed, 1 year deal, 800,000.

Domenik Simon signed, 3 years, ELC.

Pens interestingly rumored to be pursuing Cody Franson, among a couple other teams.

They'd have to move Scuderi to acquire anymore significant pieces. Yea I'd take Franson over Scud even at equal contract value, but I can't imagine how they'll move that contract

BB - he's just not in a spot to succeed in Pittsburgh. He needs to be someplace where he's a RW with a somewhat decent C. Toiling on the 3rd line w/ Sutter the possession albatross isn't going to do him any favors. 4th line duties don't suit him well and he's out of place on the left side.

He'd probably do well someplace in Buffalo where they are deep down the middle. I want to like Beau, but he's as good as gone by Christmas-time

[Legacy User]

http://www.nhl.com/ice/news.htm?id=775022&navid=nhl:topheads

This really isnt news as Maata was expected back for the beginning of camp, but still good to hear as will be counted upon for big minutes