Saints DE Cam Jordan says Ben no HOFer, Eli better.

[tbsteel]

Why do I keep seeing Romo's name in this conversation? Romo shouldn't be anywhere near this conversation.

Probably overstepping, but f it, Romo might be the most underrated QB of the modern era.

[bradshaw2ben]

For perspective here are the top 10 passer ratings (+ a few other "modern" guys with conf titles and SB titles) and years

1. Rodgers (1/1) - 14
2. Wilson (2/1) - 7
3. Brees (1/1) - 18
4. Brady (8/5) - 19
5. Romo (0/0) - 13
6. Young (1/1) - 15
7. P. Manning (4/2) - 18
8. Rivers (0/0) - 15
9. COUSINS! (0/0) - 7
10. Ryan (1/0) - 11
11. Ben (3/2) - 15
12. Warner (3/1) - 12
16. Luck (0/0) - 7
31. Favre (2/1) - 20
41. Flacco (1/1) - 11
42. E. Manning (2/2) - 15

Cousins and Mariota are the poster children for how to accumulate great passer rating and be, in reality, a terrible QB at winning games.

[bradshaw2ben]

Romo all time ranks

5th in passer rating
6th in YPA
17th in 4th Quarter comebacks
20th in GWD
18th in career win pct (min 75 wins)... just ahead of Dan Marino

Since 1994, 3rd highest in 4th Quarter Comeback success rate per opportunity (.471), behind only Andrew Luck (somewhere around .520)
Tom Brady (somewhere around .500)
Peyton Manning (.489)
and just ahead of
Ben Roethlisberger (around .450)

[Legacy User]

Romo all time ranks

5th in passer rating
6th in YPA
17th in 4th Quarter comebacks
20th in GWD
18th in career win pct (min 75 wins)... just ahead of Dan Marino

Since 1994, 3rd highest in 4th Quarter Comeback success rate per opportunity (.471), behind only Andrew Luck (somewhere around .520)
Tom Brady (somewhere around .500)
Peyton Manning (.489)
and just ahead of
Ben Roethlisberger (around .450)

And yet somehow when I think of Romo, the enduring image is of him choking away playoff games.

[COR-TEN]

Actually Jordan is smart. The last asshole, Jalen Ramsey, to make a comment about Ben not being elite caused him to play like shit for 3 quarters. If he plays like shit for 3 quarters, Saint's will win. Just trying to get in his head.

Bingo. I came here to post exactly this.

Jordan want's to infect BR with doubt. They'll take anything they can because they see a formidable opponent.

[Jobu]

Actually Jordan is smart. The last asshole, Jalen Ramsey, to make a comment about Ben not being elite caused him to play like shit for 3 quarters. If he plays like shit for 3 quarters, Saint's will win. Just trying to get in his head.

Yep...played like shit for 3 quarters and then stuck it in em. I can still see Ramsey whining like a little bitch as he walked off the field.

[Legacy User]

Romo all time ranks

5th in passer rating
6th in YPA
17th in 4th Quarter comebacks
20th in GWD
18th in career win pct (min 75 wins)... just ahead of Dan Marino

Since 1994, 3rd highest in 4th Quarter Comeback success rate per opportunity (.471), behind only Andrew Luck (somewhere around .520)
Tom Brady (somewhere around .500)
Peyton Manning (.489)
and just ahead of
Ben Roethlisberger (around .450)

And yet somehow when I think of Romo, the enduring image is of him choking away playoff games.

Because that IS what he's known for.

[Legacy User]

2-4 playoff record.

Great regular season stats.

When Peyton Manning is discussed on this board, he's dissed for his early postseason failures.

When Romo is discussed on this board, he is considered underrated.

The inability to get that snap down on a short FG against the Seahawks probably killed is rep more than anything.

I always thought he was pretty good. Didn't get it done in the playoffs.... that always hurts a qb, justified or not.

[W&M_Steeler]

Without the allegations, I think Ben would be treated like this generation's Elway. He's probably lost tens of million of dollars in endorsement deals. I also think that the NFL and the media would like to keep him out of the HoF if possible. It'll be interesting to see how ESPN responds to Jordan's comment tomorrow. Will there be segments on First Take and Golic and the Greenie show debating where Ben is in the era and concluding that he is not top 5? I wouldn't be surprised. I think they'll use Eli as an argument for keeping Ben out of the Top 5 / HoF and vice versa.

They just discussed Cam Jordan's comments on Golic & Wingo. The three of them (Golic, Golc Jr. & Wingo) all agreed that Ben is a Hall of Famer, but they also all agreed that he is the 6th best QB of the era, behind P. Manning, Brady, Rodgers, Brees, and Rivers.

[Steelperch]

Doug Gotleib and Robert Klemko have been quick to join in. Klemko compared Ben to Dave Krieg. Gotleib has hated Ben and the Steelers for years.

[Steelperch]

Without the allegations, I think Ben would be treated like this generation's Elway. He's probably lost tens of million of dollars in endorsement deals. I also think that the NFL and the media would like to keep him out of the HoF if possible. It'll be interesting to see how ESPN responds to Jordan's comment tomorrow. Will there be segments on First Take and Golic and the Greenie show debating where Ben is in the era and concluding that he is not top 5? I wouldn't be surprised. I think they'll use Eli as an argument for keeping Ben out of the Top 5 / HoF and vice versa.

They just discussed Cam Jordan's comments on Golic & Wingo. The three of them (Golic, Golc Jr. & Wingo) all agreed that Ben is a Hall of Famer, but they also all agreed that he is the 6th best QB of the era, behind P. Manning, Brady, Rodgers, Brees, and Rivers.

How the fuck is Rivers better than Ben? Played in sunny SoCal his entire career and has similar stats to Ben, but not the wins, no rings, nothing historic about him.

[Old School Steeler]

Without the allegations, I think Ben would be treated like this generation's Elway. He's probably lost tens of million of dollars in endorsement deals. I also think that the NFL and the media would like to keep him out of the HoF if possible. It'll be interesting to see how ESPN responds to Jordan's comment tomorrow. Will there be segments on First Take and Golic and the Greenie show debating where Ben is in the era and concluding that he is not top 5? I wouldn't be surprised. I think they'll use Eli as an argument for keeping Ben out of the Top 5 / HoF and vice versa.

They just discussed Cam Jordan's comments on Golic & Wingo. The three of them (Golic, Golc Jr. & Wingo) all agreed that Ben is a Hall of Famer, but they also all agreed that he is the 6th best QB of the era, behind P. Manning, Brady, Rodgers, Brees, and Rivers.

Fuck all of them, they're media whores.

If Ben wins a 3rd SB he leapfrogs Mannings, Brees, Rodgers, Rivers. Super Bowl championships supersede statistical analysis. If the intensity on both sides of the ball that was evident last week against the Patriots was an aberration we'll be an easy out if we even get there. If the team decides to play at that level and improve on their run, embracing the concept of redemption they can beat any team anywhere. Ben doesn't have the defense from 2008 that can bail out mistakes. He has to play with no let downs no mental breakdown. It can be done.

[Steelafan77]

I think it's debatable Ben is Better than Both Mannings. There I said it.

Eli yes Peyton maybe not.

I'll put this in context. I think Ben is better than peyton just from the standpoint Ben creates plays with his movement skills. Call it backyard football. Ben can roll out, step up or just scramble and make near impossible throws through a small windowed target. When was the last time anyone saw peyton do that? Peyton was statue. That to me creates the discussion for Ben being better IMHO. Peyton required a dominate OLine in front of him. Ben can play with turnstiles in front of him. Just maybe I'm biased but Ben IMO is the better QB stats or no stats. Ben has as many Super Bowls and accomplished his two before peyton got his. Did I mention I can't stand the douche peyton or his really dumb nationwide commercials? I take Ben over either manning without hesitation.

[W&M_Steeler]

Without the allegations, I think Ben would be treated like this generation's Elway. He's probably lost tens of million of dollars in endorsement deals. I also think that the NFL and the media would like to keep him out of the HoF if possible. It'll be interesting to see how ESPN responds to Jordan's comment tomorrow. Will there be segments on First Take and Golic and the Greenie show debating where Ben is in the era and concluding that he is not top 5? I wouldn't be surprised. I think they'll use Eli as an argument for keeping Ben out of the Top 5 / HoF and vice versa.

They just discussed Cam Jordan's comments on Golic & Wingo. The three of them (Golic, Golc Jr. & Wingo) all agreed that Ben is a Hall of Famer, but they also all agreed that he is the 6th best QB of the era, behind P. Manning, Brady, Rodgers, Brees, and Rivers.

How the fuck is Rivers better than Ben? Played in sunny SoCal his entire career and has similar stats to Ben, but not the wins, no rings, nothing historic about him.

They didn't say why. They just took it for granted that Rivers is better. Rivers' great season this year, coupled by some of Ben's high profile mistakes / losses this year, seem to have provided a basis for the media to start arguing Rivers over Roethlisberger.

[Legacy User]

50/50 chance Jordan and Ben are already joking about this over text messages.

[Ice]

Actually Jordan is smart. The last asshole, Jalen Ramsey, to make a comment about Ben not being elite caused him to play like shit for 3 quarters. If he plays like shit for 3 quarters, Saint's will win. Just trying to get in his head.

Only minor difference being that Ramsey plays for the Jags defense, and Jordan plays for the Saints defense.

[franco32]

LOL at Romo being included in this discussion.

I like Rivers. I think he's a great QB and one tough SOB. But, he's no Ben. Now, this year may be the year he finally proves he can take his team over the top. They have a hell of a well-rounded team. Can he finally make that leap?

[the-other-burg]

Ben won a Super Bowl with Mike Tomlin as his head coach. That right there makes him a first ballot HOF'er.

[jeemie]

Ben won a Super Bowl with Mike Tomlin as his head coach. That right there makes him a first ballot HOF'er.

[Baltostiller]

This is fucking stupid. Anyone who puts Rivers or Eli above Ben is an imbecile. Rivers hasn't even played in a playoff game in 5 years. 4-5 overall and never taking his team to the Super Bowl? GTFO.

Eli had the 2 SB runs but overall for his career he is barely over .500 as a starter. 116-112. I'll forever be grateful to him for beating the cheats but to put him above Ben is ridiculous. This clown needs to shut his cakehole.

[Stosh-67]

All I know is: if a team is playing one game to decide whether I live or die, there are only a handful of guys from the Super Bowl Era I'd ever have in that conversation. A big factor is: a QB who can win in any style of game the opponent wants to play, in any weather, in any stadium, in any timeframe/rules of that Super Bowl era.

Bradshaw
Montana
Ben
Brady
Favre
Brees
Staubach
Elway
Marino
Rodgers
Warner
Romo
Starr

I think that's the beginning and the end of the discussion. I'm knocking Marino & Romo for inability to do whatever it takes to win more of the biggest games than not. Elway & Favre at their peak could beat anyone, but they had a lot less consistency than some others. Starr would have issues in the modern game. Brady would be destroyed in a 70s era game after the second hit in the face. Guys like Lambert & Greene would listen to about 5 seconds of that guy whining and introduce him to a forearm shiver or head shot and they'd call the ambulance. Brees is an inconsistent winner with loads of talent but inflated success from playing in sunny SD and a dome for his career. If you play the game for your life in a dome or in Green Bay, Aaron Rodgers might get it done... but a road game or a close game, GTFO. Peyton's sphincter got the best of him in big games much too consistently. That leaves Bradshaw, Montana, Ben, Staubach, Warner. In my mind, those are the best 5 QBs of the Super Bowl era.

Nice list and thoughts.
Where does your man crush on Romo place him amongst the following:

Unitas ( HOF, SB winner, Unitas finished his 18 NFL seasons with 2,830 completions in 5,186 attempts for 40,239 yards and 290 touchdowns. Maybe all NFL records when he retired? )
Aikman ( HOF, 3x SB winner, SB MVP )
Namath ( HOF - SB MVP )
Stabler ( HOF, NFL MVP '74)
Dawson ( HOF & SB MVP )
Tarkenton ( HOF and led team to 3 Super Bowls. Tarkenton completed 3,686 of 6,467 passes for 47,003 yards and 342 touchdowns, with 266 interceptions, all of which were NFL records at the time of his retirement)
Jim Kelly ( HOF - led team to 4 SB )

Steve Young ( HOF, 3x SB winner, SB MVP, did step behind the steering wheel of a bentley )
Fouts ( HOF, was 2nd all time in passing yards and 4th all time in TDs upon retirement )
Moon ( HOF, maybe in the 70,000 yard 500 TD club if he started in the NFL, which he did not play in until he was 28 )

maybe those last three do not make the all weather criteria of your post.

I'm more inclined to place Romo amongst some other very good QB's of the SB era:

Russ Wilson
K. Anderson
Theismann
Plunkett
Gannon
Simms
Cunningham
Jaworski
Eli Manning
McNair.

Anyway,
Rainy Friday. Gonna flip on the podcast now.

[Legacy User]

All I know is: if a team is playing one game to decide whether I live or die, there are only a handful of guys from the Super Bowl Era I'd ever have in that conversation. A big factor is: a QB who can win in any style of game the opponent wants to play, in any weather, in any stadium, in any timeframe/rules of that Super Bowl era.

Bradshaw
Montana
Ben
Brady
Favre
Brees
Staubach
Elway
Marino
Rodgers
Warner
Romo
Starr

I think that's the beginning and the end of the discussion. I'm knocking Marino & Romo for inability to do whatever it takes to win more of the biggest games than not. Elway & Favre at their peak could beat anyone, but they had a lot less consistency than some others. Starr would have issues in the modern game. Brady would be destroyed in a 70s era game after the second hit in the face. Guys like Lambert & Greene would listen to about 5 seconds of that guy whining and introduce him to a forearm shiver or head shot and they'd call the ambulance. Brees is an inconsistent winner with loads of talent but inflated success from playing in sunny SD and a dome for his career. If you play the game for your life in a dome or in Green Bay, Aaron Rodgers might get it done... but a road game or a close game, GTFO. Peyton's sphincter got the best of him in big games much too consistently. That leaves Bradshaw, Montana, Ben, Staubach, Warner. In my mind, those are the best 5 QBs of the Super Bowl era.

No way would I put Warner ahead of guys like Elway or Favre. I don't see how you can criticize them for inconsistency but not Warner, who had five middling to poor seasons in the middle of his career.

That's fair, but Kurt was $$$ in the postseason. Got ripped off by the Pats and beaten last second by the Steelers--facing a legendary defense, the GOAT coach and two HOF QBs plus no slouch Steve McNair.

When did Brady face Chuck Noll?

[Legacy User]

Doug Gotleib and Robert Klemko have been quick to join in. Klemko compared Ben to Dave Krieg. Gotleib has hated Ben and the Steelers for years.

I just heard Wilbon i think it was and he ripped Cam Jordan a new one and stated the obvious, that Ben is surely a HOFer

[Obviously]

All I know is: if a team is playing one game to decide whether I live or die, there are only a handful of guys from the Super Bowl Era I'd ever have in that conversation. A big factor is: a QB who can win in any style of game the opponent wants to play, in any weather, in any stadium, in any timeframe/rules of that Super Bowl era.

Bradshaw
Montana
Ben
Brady
Favre
Brees
Staubach
Elway
Marino
Rodgers
Warner
Romo
Starr

I think that's the beginning and the end of the discussion. I'm knocking Marino & Romo for inability to do whatever it takes to win more of the biggest games than not. Elway & Favre at their peak could beat anyone, but they had a lot less consistency than some others. Starr would have issues in the modern game. Brady would be destroyed in a 70s era game after the second hit in the face. Guys like Lambert & Greene would listen to about 5 seconds of that guy whining and introduce him to a forearm shiver or head shot and they'd call the ambulance. Brees is an inconsistent winner with loads of talent but inflated success from playing in sunny SD and a dome for his career. If you play the game for your life in a dome or in Green Bay, Aaron Rodgers might get it done... but a road game or a close game, GTFO. Peyton's sphincter got the best of him in big games much too consistently. That leaves Bradshaw, Montana, Ben, Staubach, Warner. In my mind, those are the best 5 QBs of the Super Bowl era.

No way would I put Warner ahead of guys like Elway or Favre. I don't see how you can criticize them for inconsistency but not Warner, who had five middling to poor seasons in the middle of his career.

Obviously it's difficult to compare eras, but Otto Graham deserves love for this. Fucker was tough as nails and dead-on accurate. He was to Paul Brown what Brady is to Belichick.

And Unitas not on your list? Shame!

[Ice]

First, any list that doesn't include Arnie Herber is no list at all.

Second, where do we rate Cameron Jordan's Hall of Fame credentials among his peers?

[zeke5123]

All I know is: if a team is playing one game to decide whether I live or die, there are only a handful of guys from the Super Bowl Era I'd ever have in that conversation. A big factor is: a QB who can win in any style of game the opponent wants to play, in any weather, in any stadium, in any timeframe/rules of that Super Bowl era.

Bradshaw
Montana
Ben
Brady
Favre
Brees
Staubach
Elway
Marino
Rodgers
Warner
Romo
Starr

I think that's the beginning and the end of the discussion. I'm knocking Marino & Romo for inability to do whatever it takes to win more of the biggest games than not. Elway & Favre at their peak could beat anyone, but they had a lot less consistency than some others. Starr would have issues in the modern game. Brady would be destroyed in a 70s era game after the second hit in the face. Guys like Lambert & Greene would listen to about 5 seconds of that guy whining and introduce him to a forearm shiver or head shot and they'd call the ambulance. Brees is an inconsistent winner with loads of talent but inflated success from playing in sunny SD and a dome for his career. If you play the game for your life in a dome or in Green Bay, Aaron Rodgers might get it done... but a road game or a close game, GTFO. Peyton's sphincter got the best of him in big games much too consistently. That leaves Bradshaw, Montana, Ben, Staubach, Warner. In my mind, those are the best 5 QBs of the Super Bowl era.

What a bullshit list. Truly terrible. How could you leave of the immortal Tommy 'Blizzard' Thompson? For shame.

[Steelperch]

Max Kellerman came down in support of Cam Jordan. Shocker.

[bradshaw2ben]

When did Brady face Chuck Noll?

Touché

[bradshaw2ben]

Johnny U was an oversight. I would take Romo over pretty much all the other guys on your list, including the underrated Stabler. Some of those names you have on there, Stosh, are way below the threshold. I was. It a fan of Fouts but I guess you’d at least consider him, since he played a modern game. He was to the 80s what Ben is to now— cut from a different era.

[bradshaw2ben]

Blizzard was a blowhard