Training Camp - Officially 1 Month Away....

[Lynch]

I think Williams will get play against the Patriots because they're going to come out run heavy on us, if they watched any of last year's tape.

Oh yeah, the cheats are gonna look to impose their will I fully expect them to come out with a fullback and tight end We better see if we cant get a couple Casey Hampton's up front to keep our Williams' clean

[Legacy User]

I think Williams will get play against the Patriots because they're going to come out run heavy on us, if they watched any of last year's tape.

Oh yeah, the cheats are gonna look to impose their will I fully expect them to come out with a fullback and tight end We better see if we cant get a couple Casey Hampton's up front to keep our Williams' clean

They did go to more of a running offense last year.

[Ice]

Not to mention our run defense was pretty piss poor last season, and is one of the major things we need to improve on this season. We will be tested early and often, starting with the Pats game.

[Lynch]

Not to mention our run defense was pretty piss poor last season, and is one of the major things we need to improve on this season. We will be tested early and often, starting with the Pats game.

Folks, a new day has risen. If you can not stop the short passing game, you are fucked. This used to be the case with the running game, but no longer. It now applies to the pass. Barron and Bush will at least give us a physical chance, but our head coaching brain trust is a little under evolved. The cheats will be a good test, but I'm afeared we're massively out gunned in that department. They will attack us through the air both short and long. It's up to Tomlin to come up with a cognitive response.

[Jobu]

Oh my...now this is some funny shit. Guys...barring injury, Vince Williams, who is a top tier Tomlin guy, will start every fucking Steelers football game in 2019....

[Ice]

I should hope not, Jobu, but "starter" is going to be pretty much an honorary thing moving forward, anyway, with the amount of package defense being played. Can we stop the run with a big nickel package? Would certainly help if we could.

Something mentioned above that gives some hope is that both defensive FA signings are known to take pride in tackling. It's been an issue for a while.

[Jobu]

I should hope not, Jobu, but "starter" is going to be pretty much an honorary thing moving forward, anyway, with the amount of package defense being played. Can we stop the run with a big nickel package? Would certainly help if we could.

Something mentioned above that gives some hope is that both defensive FA signings are known to take pride in tackling. It's been an issue for a while.

Tackling isn’t a Steelers issue, Ice...it’s a league issue. Heck, it’s a football in general issue. With all the safety fears, and limited contact practice rules to combat them, the ability to properly tackle has suffered...everywhere. A pianist doesn’t become a “master” without practice.

I’m a bit jaded with regards to the way the Steelers coach and play the game. I don’t believe in change until I see the change...
Bringing in a couple mid tier FAs isn’t going to change how the Steelers do business, IMO.

[Steelafan77]

Not to mention our run defense was pretty piss poor last season, and is one of the major things we need to improve on this season. We will be tested early and often, starting with the Pats game.

I'm thinking the run defense wasn't great because of the lack of speed in the middle. Shazier covered up a huge weakness for that defense. I think they may start DWill but could replace him by the 2nd quarter with Bush. DWill isn't known for his speed. I expect help from secondary as well. I think Austin/Bradley will have them coached up and ready for that scenario. The pass defense is still going to be a work in progress. I hope to see one or shockingly two INT's in this game with many PD's. That pretty much sets the tone IMO for this defense going into the 2019 campaign.

[Lynch]

Not to mention our run defense was pretty piss poor last season, and is one of the major things we need to improve on this season. We will be tested early and often, starting with the Pats game.

I'm thinking the run defense wasn't great because of the lack of speed in the middle. Shazier covered up a huge weakness for that defense. I think they may start DWill but could replace him by the 2nd quarter with Bush. DWill isn't known for his speed. I expect help from secondary as well. I think Austin/Bradley will have them coached up and ready for that scenario. The pass defense is still going to be a work in progress. I hope to see one or shockingly two INT's in this game with many PD's. That pretty much sets the tone IMO for this defense going into the 2019 campaign.

Speed has very little to do with it in that aspect. I could go out there and make a stop in most cases. In the short passing game you must be MUCH faster.

[Scunge]

I scratch my head when people talk about how our run defense was piss poor, pathetic, terrible, whathaveyou. Really??

Explain it to me. How was our run defense so bad??

For the season of 2018 our run defense was:

6th fewest rushing yards per game, 96.1 yards per game. The Bears were the best, #1 in giving up just 80 rushing yards per game, the Arizona Cardinals worst, 32nd in giving up 155 yards per game. We were 6th, how is that terrible, how is that piss poor???

Tied for 9th with the Buffalo Bills in giving up 4.2 yards per carry, only 8 teams gave up fewer yards per carry. Teams like the KC Chiefs and LA Rams, Seahawks and Patriots were all giving up around 5.0 yards per carry. Again, enlighten me, how is that a poor run defense???

The Steeler defense was 12th in first down percentage, 22.8%. The Texans and Bears were around 19.8%. A lower ranking but still within spitting distance of a top 10 ranking.

The Steelers gave up just 1 40+ yard run, a 51 yard run, the Jaguars gave up 5 40+ yard runs, the Oakland Raiders gave up 7 40+ yard runs. In 2017 the Steeler defense gave up 3 40+ yard runs, one of them being a 90 yard TD. Sorry but that is improvement, to go from 3 to 1?

In terms of giving up 20+ yard runs, we were 10th overall, giving up 10 runs of 20+ yards. The Texans were first with giving up just 3, and the Ravens were 2nd in giving up 6 such runs, we gave up 10 and were ranked 10th overall. Now if we were the Jets and gave up a whopping 24 runs over 20+ yards then yeah, I would agree that our run defense was pathetic, piss poor, yada, yada, yada, but we are not the NY Jets, are we???

What about forcing fumbles on runs?? Yeah, that needs to improve, we were ranked 18th overall, getting 5 fumbles, which was an improvement over the previous year where we had 4. The Ravens by the way only had 2 and the Bears had the same amount that we did with 5.

Giving up rushing touchdowns?? Sure, we gave up 13 TDs on the year, which was tied for 15th. The Bears gave up the fewest with 5 and Arizona gave up the most with 25. Again, yes, could be much, much better but not really the disaster that many would make it out to be.

I don't know, if you ask me, even with the loss of Shazier, and the merry go round of Bostic and then LJ Fort partnering with Williams, the insertion of a rookie SS in Edmunds playing far too much then was planned, having Sean Davis playing FS for the first time, etc, etc, didn't this run defense actually do pretty damn well??

And doesn't it bode well for this season in that we have a shiny first round pick in Devin Bush at ILB as well as Mark Barron?? Sure it does, and it really makes all of this hand wringing about teams going to run against us at will seem rather silly. Doesn't it??

[Jobu]

I scratch my head when people talk about how our run defense was piss poor, pathetic, terrible, whathaveyou. Really??

Explain it to me. How was our run defense so bad??

For the season of 2018 our run defense was:

6th fewest rushing yards per game, 96.1 yards per game. The Bears were the best, #1 in giving up just 80 rushing yards per game, the Arizona Cardinals worst, 32nd in giving up 155 yards per game. We were 6th, how is that terrible, how is that piss poor???

Tied for 9th with the Buffalo Bills in giving up 4.2 yards per carry, only 8 teams gave up fewer yards per carry. Teams like the KC Chiefs and LA Rams, Seahawks and Patriots were all giving up around 5.0 yards per carry. Again, enlighten me, how is that a poor run defense???

The Steeler defense was 12th in first down percentage, 22.8%. The Texans and Bears were around 19.8%. A lower ranking but still within spitting distance of a top 10 ranking.

The Steelers gave up just 1 40+ yard run, a 51 yard run, the Jaguars gave up 5 40+ yard runs, the Oakland Raiders gave up 7 40+ yard runs. In 2017 the Steeler defense gave up 3 40+ yard runs, one of them being a 90 yard TD. Sorry but that is improvement, to go from 3 to 1?

In terms of giving up 20+ yard runs, we were 10th overall, giving up 10 runs of 20+ yards. The Texans were first with giving up just 3, and the Ravens were 2nd in giving up 6 such runs, we gave up 10 and were ranked 10th overall. Now if we were the Jets and gave up a whopping 24 runs over 20+ yards then yeah, I would agree that our run defense was pathetic, piss poor, yada, yada, yada, but we are not the NY Jets, are we???

What about forcing fumbles on runs?? Yeah, that needs to improve, we were ranked 18th overall, getting 5 fumbles, which was an improvement over the previous year where we had 4. The Ravens by the way only had 2 and the Bears had the same amount that we did with 5.

Giving up rushing touchdowns?? Sure, we gave up 13 TDs on the year, which was tied for 15th. The Bears gave up the fewest with 5 and Arizona gave up the most with 25. Again, yes, could be much, much better but not really the disaster that many would make it out to be.

I don't know, if you ask me, even with the loss of Shazier, and the merry go round of Bostic and then LJ Fort partnering with Williams, the insertion of a rookie SS in Edmunds playing far too much then was planned, having Sean Davis playing FS for the first time, etc, etc, didn't this run defense actually do pretty damn well??

And doesn't it bode well for this season in that we have a shiny first round pick in Devin Bush at ILB as well as Mark Barron?? Sure it does, and it really makes all of this hand wringing about teams going to run against us at will seem rather silly. Doesn't it??

Jeez Scunge...why ya clouding everything up with facts?

And this is just my opinion, but I’d rather teams piddle around trying to establish the run than marching up and down the field through the air...

[Steelafan77]

Speed has very little to do with it in that aspect. I could go out there and make a stop in most cases. In the short passing game you must be MUCH faster.

Speed has EVERYTHING to do with Stopping the Run as well as Pass Defending. Losing Shazier was a tipping point (IMO) for this defense because of the loss of the speed he brought to the table. I guess I could have worded it 'overall defensive speed' or something...

To Scunge, while 6th run defense is good and it is in the top 10..., still needs improvement. "Not Great" was the adjective I Used. Never stated it was poor, lousy, terrible, pathetic or any other over reactive description.

Further, I do agree with your point about the new shiny pieces the Steelers brought in through FA and the Draft. All Of Whom are shown to have SPEED! Even a blind man can see the Steelers focus is on SPEED for the defense.

[Ice]

Really do think bringing in the new hires over the last couple of seasons, including this offseason, is going to help, as they've brought in guys who have a good track record of teaching the game, which is key if you're going to be drafting high-SPARQ athletes without a ton of football experience.

I agree, 77, that Shaz was masking a lot of faults for the defense for the 1.5 seasons he was really killing it for this team. He was the cornerstone. You don't just replace that. Hopefully Bush and Barron (Killer B's, anyone?) can bridge the gap.

Edit: It's 93 and feels like 100 here in beautiful Dewey Beach, Delaware, so it's either cockeyed optimism or heat stroke.

[Rod & Wire Mill]

Speed has very little to do with it in that aspect. I could go out there and make a stop in most cases. In the short passing game you must be MUCH faster.

Speed has EVERYTHING to do with Stopping the Run as well as Pass Defending. Losing Shazier was a tipping point (IMO) for this defense because of the loss of the speed he brought to the table. I guess I could have worded it 'overall defensive speed' or something...

To Scunge, while 6th run defense is good and it is in the top 10..., still needs improvement. "Not Great" was the adjective I Used. Never stated it was poor, lousy, terrible, pathetic or any other over reactive description.

Further, I do agree with your point about the new shiny pieces the Steelers brought in through FA and the Draft. All Of Whom are shown to have SPEED! Even a blind man can see the Steelers focus is on SPEED for the defense.

Love the picture of Ernie Stautner!

[COR-TEN]

Edit: It's 93 and feels like 100 here in beautiful Dewey Beach, Delaware, so it's either cockeyed optimism or heat stroke.

Yup. I'm drowning in humidity here in NYC. 90+ and 65% humidity.

And oh, BTW, agree that a coaching staff change as well as new players will do wonders for this team.

[Lynch]

Speed has very little to do with it in that aspect. I could go out there and make a stop in most cases. In the short passing game you must be MUCH faster.

Speed has EVERYTHING to do with Stopping the Run as well as Pass Defending. Losing Shazier was a tipping point (IMO) for this defense because of the loss of the speed he brought to the table. I guess I could have worded it 'overall defensive speed' or something...

To Scunge, while 6th run defense is good and it is in the top 10..., still needs improvement. "Not Great" was the adjective I Used. Never stated it was poor, lousy, terrible, pathetic or any other over reactive description.

Further, I do agree with your point about the new shiny pieces the Steelers brought in through FA and the Draft. All Of Whom are shown to have SPEED! Even a blind man can see the Steelers focus is on SPEED for the defense.

Please get back to me after one of your genetic offspring get kicked outta mighty might football. Obviously you never made it even that far.

[Havoc]

I scratch my head when people talk about how our run defense was piss poor, pathetic, terrible, whathaveyou. Really??

Explain it to me. How was our run defense so bad??

For the season of 2018 our run defense was:

6th fewest rushing yards per game, 96.1 yards per game. The Bears were the best, #1 in giving up just 80 rushing yards per game, the Arizona Cardinals worst, 32nd in giving up 155 yards per game. We were 6th, how is that terrible, how is that piss poor???

Tied for 9th with the Buffalo Bills in giving up 4.2 yards per carry, only 8 teams gave up fewer yards per carry. Teams like the KC Chiefs and LA Rams, Seahawks and Patriots were all giving up around 5.0 yards per carry. Again, enlighten me, how is that a poor run defense???

The Steeler defense was 12th in first down percentage, 22.8%. The Texans and Bears were around 19.8%. A lower ranking but still within spitting distance of a top 10 ranking.

The Steelers gave up just 1 40+ yard run, a 51 yard run, the Jaguars gave up 5 40+ yard runs, the Oakland Raiders gave up 7 40+ yard runs. In 2017 the Steeler defense gave up 3 40+ yard runs, one of them being a 90 yard TD. Sorry but that is improvement, to go from 3 to 1?

In terms of giving up 20+ yard runs, we were 10th overall, giving up 10 runs of 20+ yards. The Texans were first with giving up just 3, and the Ravens were 2nd in giving up 6 such runs, we gave up 10 and were ranked 10th overall. Now if we were the Jets and gave up a whopping 24 runs over 20+ yards then yeah, I would agree that our run defense was pathetic, piss poor, yada, yada, yada, but we are not the NY Jets, are we???

What about forcing fumbles on runs?? Yeah, that needs to improve, we were ranked 18th overall, getting 5 fumbles, which was an improvement over the previous year where we had 4. The Ravens by the way only had 2 and the Bears had the same amount that we did with 5.

Giving up rushing touchdowns?? Sure, we gave up 13 TDs on the year, which was tied for 15th. The Bears gave up the fewest with 5 and Arizona gave up the most with 25. Again, yes, could be much, much better but not really the disaster that many would make it out to be.

I don't know, if you ask me, even with the loss of Shazier, and the merry go round of Bostic and then LJ Fort partnering with Williams, the insertion of a rookie SS in Edmunds playing far too much then was planned, having Sean Davis playing FS for the first time, etc, etc, didn't this run defense actually do pretty damn well??

And doesn't it bode well for this season in that we have a shiny first round pick in Devin Bush at ILB as well as Mark Barron?? Sure it does, and it really makes all of this hand wringing about teams going to run against us at will seem rather silly. Doesn't it??

A lot of good stuff here Scunge

[Steelafan77]

Agree to disagree lynch. Your assumptions regarding me or my genetics are unsupported.

[Ice]

A lot of those are dependent statistics, Scunge.

[bradshaw2ben]

Not to mention our run defense was pretty piss poor last season, and is one of the major things we need to improve on this season. We will be tested early and often, starting with the Pats game.

Yeah, I've been singing this song since the schedule came out. I think the first 7-8 games of our schedule, teams will be looking to run the ball right at our defense. I think if you start Barron, Hargrave, and Bush in the middle, that is an invitation for power football. Those three are all mobile and can get wide but holding the point not as much in their wheelhouse. Offenses will have a very difficult time on the edges but Steelers will have to prove they can stop the run in the middle.

[Steelafan77]

Some really good news going into Camp...
SNIP, SNIP

“When he came in, I wasn’t sure what to expect,” Roethlisberger said. “Obviously, we played against him and I’ve seen him go against us in game situations, but I didn’t know him. Now, you see his work ethic, the type of person he is, the desire to be great. He has a knowledge of the offense already.
“I’ll give him no-huddle stuff, and I’ll give him a signal, and I’ll say, ‘Are you good?’ and he’ll say, yeah. … I’ve enjoyed the ability to work with him and opportunity to know him so far.”
“I’ve been extremely proud of what he’s done since the day he got here,” Fichtner said. “I don’t know if he’s missed one day in this building. That’s been exciting. He brings an unbelievable professional attitude, and that’s encouraging.”
“For a guy that hadn’t been in the system, he’s really done some things that are innate,” Drake said. “He does some things that come natural. Picking up the system, there are times when you get a guy, you bring him in and he’s been in two or three different systems and those systems start running together.
“But he’s been able to distinguish the differences and go out there and do things that make my job a lot easier because he has a feel for the position. One thing he’s doing is playing with a lot of confidence, and Ben has confidence in him. He’s just got to continue to grow.”
https://triblive.com/sports/receiver-do ... -steelers/

So Far, So Good! Looking like Moncrief all but assured himself the #2 WR role. No doubt a lock for the roster already. Seems like the Steelers may have struck Gold in free agency this season, again. Wait and see mode as we hope all this good news translates to the regular season and dare I say Postseason?

[Kodiak]

Obviously it's encouraging.

Moncrief got a 2-yr/$9M deal. But seems he realizes what kind of money he stands to make if he puts up big numbers with a HOF QB. He's only 26, so put up a few Pro Bowl years and he's looking at easily a $60M contract in a few years.

But $9M is still a lot of coin. He just as easily could have been happy to play that out doing just enough to be the #4 receiver.

[Ice]

Other than a few games with Neckbeard the Pirate, I think Moncrief is probably happy to be playing with a quarterback, period. Hall of Famer is gravy. He and Ben can put up numbers this year.

[Scunge]

A lot of those are dependent statistics, Scunge.

Dependent on what exactly Ice?? When we won Super Bowls in 05 and 08, I believe we gave up 80 and 86 yards rushing per game on defense those seasons. Casey Hampton was the NT, he was surrounded by a lot of Pro Bowlers and a lot of players that had years, years, of experience playing together. There were battle tested, they had cohesion, they had trust and a mind meld thing going on.

Many criticize Hargrave for not being a Casey Hampton traditional NT. Many say we suck at playing the run, yet we gave up just one run over 40+ yards (2nd fewest in the NFL), gave up just 4.2 yards per carry (9th lowest total), and gave up 96 yards per game rushing (6th lowest total).

Wow, so the terrible NT that we had in Hargrave, those incompetent ILBs that we had in Bostic, Fort and Williams, those terrible safeties that we had in Davis and Edmunds, those bums that we had in Dupree and Watt at OLB, is it any wonder we gave up 96 yards per game???

[Kodiak]

Yeah, a few teams took us to the woodshed in the running game, but 90% of the defensive struggles were making key stops in the passing game.

Even that playoff loss to JAX....the problem was the secondary kept giving up 3rd down conversions to fucking Blake Bortles.

[Ice]

Dependent upon how opponents chose to attack the defense, Scunge. Just like most defensive stats, honestly, other than opponents' PPG. If they're having success passing, which teams did, rushing YPG will naturally be lower.

I'm concerned about it going into this year, particularly as we're simultaneously going with youth and speed over size all the way down the middle.

Your stats give me some hope, though, so definitely thanks for that. Better than the eye test indicated, for what it's worth.

[Legacy User]

A lot of those are dependent statistics, Scunge.

Dependent on what exactly Ice?? When we won Super Bowls in 05 and 08, I believe we gave up 80 and 86 yards rushing per game on defense those seasons. Casey Hampton was the NT, he was surrounded by a lot of Pro Bowlers and a lot of players that had years, years, of experience playing together. There were battle tested, they had cohesion, they had trust and a mind meld thing going on.

Many criticize Hargrave for not being a Casey Hampton traditional NT. Many say we suck at playing the run, yet we gave up just one run over 40+ yards (2nd fewest in the NFL), gave up just 4.2 yards per carry (9th lowest total), and gave up 96 yards per game rushing (6th lowest total).

Wow, so the terrible NT that we had in Hargrave, those incompetent ILBs that we had in Bostic, Fort and Williams, those terrible safeties that we had in Davis and Edmunds, those bums that we had in Dupree and Watt at OLB, is it any wonder we gave up 96 yards per game???

I agree with everything Scunge says 99% of the time, but I think it's hard to compare defense stats from 2005/2008 to today. The game has changed so much recently. It's like comparing QB stats today to QB stats from 20 years ago - it's just not fair. It's much easier to throw the ball today and the QBs all have inflated stats as a result.

That's the same for Defense stats. In 2005, teams seemed to run more, and we were great at stopping run. In 2019, teams seem to pass more, and we suck at stopping the pass. So maybe that's why our current run Defense stats look "good" in comparison to 2005. Because we get regularly shredded by the passing game, so teams do not need to run on us.

[Kodiak]

....So maybe that's why our current run Defense stats look "good" in comparison to 2005. Because we get regularly shredded by the passing game, so teams do not need to run on us.

But they were 9th in YPC, so that suggest the run defense was fairly legit. And it's not like they indirectly benefited from teams predictably running to close out games, not with our offense and it's not like anyone blew us out.

Other than DVOA, better would be to split out the actual rushing. <3 yards is a win for the defense (unless it results in a 1st down or TD), >4 would be a failure. Because you can't stop anyone giving up 4.0 yards every carry. So a defense good against the run has a lot of carries <3 yards, which creates favorable down/distance.

It's the atrocious secondary play the last several years that has cost us. Plus, locating the ball and taking it away was never emphasized (apparently that's changing this year, as if Tomlin had some sort of epiphany after 11 seasons). Pretty bad when you aren't playing for picks and you're guys are still getting torched all over the field.

[Scunge]

Yes, I understand many of the points of comparing today's defenses to those of 10 years ago, but that is part of my point too. There have been many rule changes that were brought along that made it harder to defend the run as well. It was truly sad for me to see how the Ravens exploited some of these changes and used them to neutralize Casey Hampton towards the second half of his career. To see Hampton be engaged with a blocker and then watch Guard Yanda come in low and chop him down was brutal.

All of the rules of hitting, the NFL trying to promote safety, it has trickled down to everything. They play more and more with no contact for practice, some even use these stupid robots to simulate tackling. How exactly do you sharpen your skills as a tackler when you are tackling a robot?? He does not use a stiff arm, he is not going to juke you. It is ludicrous.

So, again, in this environment, and with everything else factored in, is our Steeler run defense, as it currently stands, bad, awful, terrible? No. It is not.

And will it ever get to the days of say, 2010?? In that season Hampton and crew were some of the best run defenders ever, giving up 62 yards per game, 3.0 yards per carry, 5 TDs. But it was a different time, the NFL was different, the rules, the violence of the game was different.

It is funny, but that 2010 to 2011 time period shows how quickly it all changed. Like I said, the year before was incredible, 62 yards per game, 3.0 yard average, and then bam, the very next season in 2011, the Baltimore Ravens put 170 yards rushing on us in the first game of the season, then the Houston Texans 4 games later puts 180 yards rushing on us. The Jags rushed for 133 yards and the Rams rushed for 164 yards. WTF??

That 2011 season was a watershed moment, LeBeau's defense, the run defense in particular was being gouged and yet the defense had many of the same cast of characters, many of them still making the Pro Bowl. But to watch Hampton being chop blocked and some teams really taking it to him, and taking it to the line of being dirty, that was all she wrote.

Hargrave is the perfect NT for todays NFL and he is very underrated against the run. A Hampton type of NT is a dinosaur in today's game.

[Ice]

Interesting perspective, Scunge, and a good post.