Steelers Offense At Their Best .... When

[Legacy User]

Personally, don't think Haley has the creativeness or the football IQ for the role he's in. In every interview I've seen, he doesn't come across as a deep thinker or a game strategist.

People like Haley scare the shit out of me because they don't possess the skills to truly assess the talent they have with when they come into a new role and create something new that plays to the strengths of the players they have to work with. They come in with their resume ans say, "Hey, look what I did at this other place I used to work!" and offer up a box solution .... or a shelf product that they plagiarized from their place of previous employment hoping it has some degree of success.

Ben should be Ben. Ben should have allowed to be Ben from the day Haley stepped on the property. I trust Ben's read of the defense, more than I trust any play that Haley sends in from the sideline. 80% of Haley's players go East/West in nature and rely on YAC to be effective. Ben is a North/South guy that should be throwing a lot more vertical play-action.
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The bolded I completely disagree with. Here's two examples why. In Arizona, Haley basically ran the chuck and duck with tons of downfield throws. He had a great WR trio and a QB that made quick reads even on deep throws. Here, he's had shit pass blockers that suck one on one and are even worse picking up blitzes. He was given a mandate to keep Ben clean so he's designed a quick, short pass offense and has done an amazing job getting Ben to buy in and get rid of the ball. Now his play calling completely sucks at times but he's designed an offense that is doing exactly what he was told to do. Keep Ben healthy and rebuild the running game. He also gets the ball to his best playmakers the majority of the time. He's playing to the strength and avoiding the weaknesses of his players about as well as you could expect. That's my opinion anyway.

+1... Could not agree more. The better the OL gets the more this offense will open up

[Havoc]

For those who say people complained about Arians so the complaints are a wash...

It's not that simple.

The nature of the complaints are largely of a different nature.

There was a core group of Arians supporters and/or people who were at least ok with him.

There is a core group of Haley supporters and/or people who are at least ok with him.

But for the most part, this is a drastically different group of people coming from very different philosophies and views on football.

Overall, there was more support for Arians than Haley, at least to this point. I am not going to say this cannot change.

The philosophy should be win games... How that happens who gives a shit, I know I don't. I just want a W at the end of the game. Offense will be fine as long as the OL plays like they did this round.

I doubt many (if any) are going to say they disagree with the idea of winning games by any means possible.

Most coaches have philosophies and see the game a certain way at least to some degree (even if they claim they don't), and some of that comes from their own personality... so do many fans, especially hard core fans.

[Legacy User]

The core of fans who supported or who were willing to to give each OC a break is made up of different people but the hate for the offensive philosophy and the weekly reactions to it are the same.

The sentiment that the offense is at it's best when Ben is running no huddle and the OC is out of it is also the same. I remember having those battles trying to defend Arians constantly, what is going on now isn't any different, people are just complaining about different things.

[Havoc]

I remember the bashing of Airians... the spelling due to the complaint that he threw too much.

Arians liked chunks of yardage and the mid range game... and some of us supported that 100%. We are the same people who can't stand the site of the giant man ben with the big arm being used like he is phil simms.

There are big differences between those 2 OC's.

[955876]

The one big thing Arians offense lacked was the check down to the backs to provide Ben an out vs the blitz.

They've incorporated the RB but eliminated the downfield game.

It's always one or the other with this team. They can never seem to incorporate both.

If we continue to run as we have as well has feature a short passing game then it is asinine to not incorporate more intermediate to downfield throws.

A big reason you do what we are doing is to set up the other shit. If you never do it, eventually what you are doing becomes less and less effective.

There were a few fixable things wrong with Arians plan. But in order to fix it they scrapped all that was good with Arians plan.

Somewhere between Arians & Haley lies a very good offense.

Especially with now having a competent oline coach.

[RemoAZ]

The one big thing Arians offense lacked was the check down to the backs to provide Ben an out vs the blitz.

They've incorporated the RB but eliminated the downfield game.

It's always one or the other with this team. They can never seem to incorporate both.

If we continue to run as we have as well has feature a short passing game then it is asinine to not incorporate more intermediate to downfield throws.

A big reason you do what we are doing is to set up the other shit. If you never do it, eventually what you are doing becomes less and less effective.

There were a few fixable things wrong with Arians plan. But in order to fix it they scrapped all that was good with Arians plan.

Somewhere between Arians & Haley lies a very good offense.

Especially with now having a competent oline coach.

I really believe, even though the offense line still can't pass block, the defenses will have to start adjusting to the running game and short passing attack. When that happens, it should allow us to do more play action and have more downfield shots without Ben dodging 7 rushers. Granted these might have to come by Ben changing the play at the LOS or running the no huddle but I think opportunities will start presenting themselves.

[955876]

Hope so.

3 games in the needle is pointing up with the running game.

And that's never a bad thing.

[V DUB]

It's a west coast offense, & they are taking shots, but they're doing it in a methodical fashion. It's not grab bag, go deep for the sake of going deep. No receiver has the consistency to challenge deep yet, on any given play. They have to set those plays up, & they worked vs Carolina, because the short game & running game caused them to defend the short middle.

Jeemie is a fucking Debbie Downer.

[Steelafan77]

Love to see Bryant fill that role for the Steelers Offense Van. I think Moore was a fail-safe that isn't required any longer and they should cut bait and move on. JMO

[V DUB]

I would too, I just don't think he's ready. DHB did a good job of drawing safety help & drawing a DPI. Someone acutally making a play deep would go a long way toward opening up the middle/deep seam.

I don't think this staff is going to rely on penalties to equal success though.

[Havoc]

It's a west coast offense, & they are taking shots, but they're doing it in a methodical fashion. It's not grab bag, go deep for the sake of going deep. No receiver has the consistency to challenge deep yet, on any given play. They have to set those plays up, & they worked vs Carolina, because the short game & running game caused them to defend the short middle.

Jeemie is a fucking Debbie Downer.

The problem is, we won't be running thru the entire nfl like this. Especially if we make the ps. And when that happens, we will see the offense sputter again, unless we develop a better mid range and/or deep passing game.

[jeemie]

It's a west coast offense, & they are taking shots, but they're doing it in a methodical fashion. It's not grab bag, go deep for the sake of going deep. No receiver has the consistency to challenge deep yet, on any given play. They have to set those plays up, & they worked vs Carolina, because the short game & running game caused them to defend the short middle.

Jeemie is a fucking Debbie Downer.

It is not the West Coast Offense...it is a defanged kindergarten version of it.

And it won't work long term. We have two years of evidence on that.

[Ice]

We have zero years of evidence of how it will work with a 2000 yard from scrimmage RB with a capable backup and a decent right side of the line to run behind. It's week 3. How about we let this thing play out a little?

[Legacy User]

We have zero years of evidence of how it will work with a 2000 yard from scrimmage RB with a capable backup and a decent right side of the line to run behind. It's week 3. How about we let this thing play out a little?

I was thinking same thing

History can be an indicator, but it won't tell you whats going to happen tomorrow

[jeemie]

We have zero years of evidence of how it will work with a 2000 yard from scrimmage RB with a capable backup and a decent right side of the line to run behind. It's week 3. How about we let this thing play out a little?

We have many years of evidence that show a strong correlation between an offense capable of big plays in the passing game and winning games.

Teams that can't...or won't...throw the ball down field don't win that often.

A striking example of this was Denver in the Super Bowl, and again this past week.

They spent six and a half quarters in two games throwing the ball sideways in those two games against Seattle.

During those six and a half quarters, they were outscored 60-10.

When the Broncos changed their tactics and started throwing the ball downfield, their fortunes changed, and they outscored the Seahawks 18-9, running one of the best one minute drills I have ever seen to force overtime.

Running coupled with throwing short and sideways makes it so easy for a defense to defend.

It leads to a lot of Todd Haley Touchdowns, which, against a good team that isn't shooting itself in the foot (like the Panthers did), can prove fatal.

This is so well understood I can't believe we're still arguing about it. We don't need to "let it play out". We know what usually happens to teams that don't throw downfield and those that do.

Teams that win can make big plays in the passing game. Period.

I'm not advocating abandoning the screens and quick passes, but JESUS...you really need a LITTLE more than ~20% of your passes traveling farther than 10 yards in the air.

[Legacy User]

I remember the bashing of Airians... the spelling due to the complaint that he threw too much.

Arians liked chunks of yardage and the mid range game... and some of us supported that 100%. We are the same people who can't stand the site of the giant man ben with the big arm being used like he is phil simms.

There are big differences between those 2 OC's.

Not only am I not disputing there is a difference between the two OCs, I just said the same thing.

What isn't different, and rarely is, is the reaction to the OC, regardless of what they do or how they go about it. BTW that isnt tacit support of Haley.

[Ice]

We have zero years of evidence of how it will work with a 2000 yard from scrimmage RB with a capable backup and a decent right side of the line to run behind. It's week 3. How about we let this thing play out a little?

We have many years of evidence that show a strong correlation between an offense capable of big plays in the passing game and winning games.

Many of Ben's biggest plays have come off of run action. He is a terrific play-action passer. In order to have effective play action, you must first demonstrate that you are willing and capable of gashing teams on the ground, so they respect said run action.

The rest of the NFL, after four years (more?) of horrible, piss-poor run-blocking and sorry, unable to find a hole with a map and a flashlight, waiver-wire jobber and spindarella running backs, isn't going to immediately respect the Steelers' running game. There is some tape out there now. After three weeks of it, NFL DCs will start adjusting gameplans.

Play action will come. Deep passes off of it are one of Ben's specialties. Give it some time, man.

[jeemie]

We have zero years of evidence of how it will work with a 2000 yard from scrimmage RB with a capable backup and a decent right side of the line to run behind. It's week 3. How about we let this thing play out a little?

We have many years of evidence that show a strong correlation between an offense capable of big plays in the passing game and winning games.

Many of Ben's biggest plays have come off of run action. He is a terrific play-action passer. In order to have effective play action, you must first demonstrate that you are willing and capable of gashing teams on the ground, so they respect said run action.

The rest of the NFL, after four years (more?) of horrible, piss-poor run-blocking and sorry, unable to find a hole with a map and a flashlight, waiver-wire jobber and spindarella running backs, isn't going to immediately respect the Steelers' running game. There is some tape out there now. After three weeks of it, NFL DCs will start adjusting gameplans.

Play action will come. Deep passes off of it are one of Ben's specialties. Give it some time, man.

If I trusted Haley to deliver, I would.

I'm still hoping...

[lifelongsteel]

We have zero years of evidence of how it will work with a 2000 yard from scrimmage RB with a capable backup and a decent right side of the line to run behind. It's week 3. How about we let this thing play out a little?

We have many years of evidence that show a strong correlation between an offense capable of big plays in the passing game and winning games.

Many of Ben's biggest plays have come off of run action. He is a terrific play-action passer. In order to have effective play action, you must first demonstrate that you are willing and capable of gashing teams on the ground, so they respect said run action.

The rest of the NFL, after four years (more?) of horrible, piss-poor run-blocking and sorry, unable to find a hole with a map and a flashlight, waiver-wire jobber and spindarella running backs, isn't going to immediately respect the Steelers' running game. There is some tape out there now. After three weeks of it, NFL DCs will start adjusting gameplans.

Play action will come. Deep passes off of it are one of Ben's specialties. Give it some time, man.

This. 1000 times this.

[Legacy User]

We have scored a lot of points on 2 good defenses. Ben played poorly after getting "rocked" by Upshaw. Lesser men would have left the game. All this whining is crazy. Our offense is growing into a very balanced and potent force. The 2nd Browns game will tell us a lot.

[bradshaw2ben]

I basically agree about Ben and establishing run game for play action-- but Ben's best work is from shotgun. I've been on this for some time now... Ben is tremendous from shotgun AND we seem to run the ball well from shotgun, too.

[Ice]

He has also worked extremely well from the shotgun. Since college, really. I think he just surveys the field best from that position. It's his comfort zone.

The other thing that play action does is make his already good pump fakes almost deadly. I'm just going to enjoy seeing him in an offense that can do damage in more than one phase of the game again.

[Legacy User]

Bell is in the backfield.

[Legacy User]

I basically agree about Ben and establishing run game for play action-- but Ben's best work is from shotgun. I've been on this for some time now... Ben is tremendous from shotgun AND we seem to run the ball well from shotgun, too.

100% agree

[Nick79]

I remember the bashing of Airians... the spelling due to the complaint that he threw too much.

Arians liked chunks of yardage and the mid range game... and some of us supported that 100%. We are the same people who can't stand the site of the giant man ben with the big arm being used like he is phil simms.

There are big differences between those 2 OC's.

I never bashed Arians, I belive he never had free reaign to do exactly what he wanted 100%, I think he felt handcuffed be the need to be devoted to an ideal of "Steelers Football" as everybody hired by the Rooneys is eventually. I need to take a look at what his doing as head man in Arizona a little closer?

[Legacy User]

I need to take a look at what his doing as head man in Arizona a little closer?

Just take a look at his rookie WR from Pittsburgh State and how he's playing with the backup QB

[86n96]

The wrap around draw on our own 2 yard line against the jets convinced me BA needed to go. I like Haley's play design, but like BA, not a great situational guy. Not to say Ben hasn't make his share of idiotic checks, either, though. Its a team game from the front office to the ball boy, and most of the time you can blame poor execution just as much as play calling.

[Legacy User]

I might have my yinzer colored glasses on, but for the first time I felt like Haley playcalling was more like chess than checkers. He still had some clunkers in there, but plays seemed to build off of each other.

I also felt that Ben's no huddle was more successful because his plays built off of the earlier playcalls. The short passing game was a rope-a-dope to pull the defense in and lean the heavy bodies on them. Then Ben blasted away after they were softened up.

[Joe Steeler Fan]

I never bashed Arians, I believe he never had free reign to do exactly what he wanted 100%, I think he felt handcuffed be the need to be devoted to an ideal of "Steelers Football" as everybody hired by the Rooneys is evetually. I need to take a look at what his doing as head man in Arizona a little closer?

I call BS on this one. The problem with Arians was that he did have free reign and absolutely neglected to take any semblance of a running game seriously. He was given the opportunity to correct things, but he ignored the tea leaves.

Surly you remember ALL PRO offensive line he put forward every year?

Ken Doll Simmons, Darnell Stapleton, Marvell Smith, Chris Kemoeatu, Trai Essucks, Sean Mahan, Justin Hartwig ... etc., etc.

[lifelongsteel]

I remember the bashing of Airians... the spelling due to the complaint that he threw too much.

Arians liked chunks of yardage and the mid range game... and some of us supported that 100%. We are the same people who can't stand the site of the giant man ben with the big arm being used like he is phil simms.

There are big differences between those 2 OC's.

I never bashed Arians, I belive he never had free reaign to do exactly what he wanted 100%, I think he felt handcuffed be the need to be devoted to an ideal of "Steelers Football" as everybody hired by the Rooneys is eventually. I need to take a look at what his doing as head man in Arizona a little closer?

He was curtailed by the SYC - the Secret Yinzer Society. The organizations mission is to deliver Yinzer Rock Pounding Orgasms throughout the land. Their motto:

We pound the rock
We kill the clock
Win or lose
We don't care
Rock Pounding Orgasms
For all to share

FWIW - i haven't checked, but i think he's started somewhere around 25 straight games. I'm pretty happy about that.