Deshaun Watson

[tbsteel]

I for one hope the Steelers organization has an intelligently crafted succession plan in place to move on to their next franchise quarterback that doesn't involve me waiting 25 years as it did from Bradshaw to Ben.

Seems like a lot of fans are just doing that whole head-in-sand thing and throwing out "I won't watch football once Ben retires anyways" which we all know is horseshit. Or "we'll just tank the year after Ben retires and then figure it out." Lol, okay, nice forward-thinking strategy that I'm sure all the coaches and front office folks will get behind since they won't have to worry about their job security during a tank...

The Steelers #1 goal this offseason is finding players at the college level they think can be the next guy and getting draft ammo/capital to be able to make a move to get that guy when the time comes, whether they pull the trigger this offseason, next offseason, or even the year after. I would definitely consider trading out of the first round altogether to drop down this year and accumulate future picks as more ammo going forward.

With all the guys we're going to lose to FA this offseason, this season is probably it as far any championship potential goes. We're not going to have a championship roster next year and Big Ben ain't getting any better with another year behind him.

[bradshaw2ben]

If you look at the guys of this era who have really panned out... like the guys who give their team a chance to win every year.

There are basically two kinds of QBs: drafted at the top of the draft or guys who fell way below where they should have gone.

Tom Brady... completely under the radar... 6th round
Ben Roethlisberger... fell to THIRD in his class, still a top 11 pick
Andrew Luck... top of the draft
Patrick Mahomes... fell way below where he should have gone, still a top 10 pick
Aaron Rodgers... fell way below where he should have gone... 24th pick
Drew Brees... fell way below where he should have gone (size)... 32nd pick
Russell Wilson... fell way below where he should have gone (size)... pick 75
Peyton Manning... top of the draft
Josh Allen... fell to third in his class, still pick 7
I'll throw in Deshaun Watson... 3rd in his class, still pick 12

So, two guys below the first round, only three below pick 15.

In order for a consistently good team like Pittsburgh to find the successor, my humble opinion is that they have to either hit the lottery OR they have to be just bad enough to be in range of a guy who drops because of other highly regarded QBs in the class or some perceived flaw. They have to be RIGHT about that choice––if you use a 1st rounder or 2 to draft a QB, it would be worse to draft a guy who is pretty good but doesn't become great than it would be to not draft a QB at all.

When you look at the QBs Pittsburgh has selected over the years, their hit rate isn't exactly encouraging. I think they have to get someone in the top 10 or 15 to make it work. That's a tough ask when they're likely to be within shooting distance of 8-8, whcih means pick 15-17 area. You'll still need at least another 1st round pick to move up from there into "can really play" QB prospect territory. Still have to get lucky and scout well, but then that puts you behind the 8-ball when rebuilding your offensive line and replacing aging stars and so on.

This year, they're going to pick 25th or higher, most likely. Moving up from there is a huge gamble because of the price. It'll cost you more than 2 1sts to move up into range for the 3rd or 4th best QB prospect in the class. Otherwise, you're once again counting on them to pick a 2nd or 3rd round QB prospect that they think is a stud but no one else does. This is how you get Mason Rudolph and Landry Jones.

For all the talk of "wasting this defense while you rebuild", I think they are unlikely to have some huge parts of the D for very long anyway. You ditch Ben––whether for a draft pick QB or an expensive vet like Watson––you're going to be rebuilding. To me, the best bet is to extend Ben into years he'll probably never see on the field, ditch everyone expensive on offense, add draft picks at OL, RB, & TE, and spend all the money resources you have left afterward on keeping young defensive pieces. Ride the Ben-DJ-Chase-Dotson train on offense as long as you can while paired with a top defense. When that ride is done, take a tough season on the chin, get a top pick if Mason Rudolph doesn't suddenly morph into a stud, and bounce into the future with more cap space and a still relevant core.

[Greeksteel]

Ridder going back to Cinci is SBI, we ride Ben one more year and then this is one of the targets for next QB of the Steelers.

Pete Thamel
@PeteThamel
.
@YahooSports
Exclusive: Cincinnati's Desmond Ridder says he will return to the Bearcats next season. With 15 starters back and a possible Top 10 preseason ranking,
@GoBearcatsFB
will again be in the CFP conversation. Big day for Cincinnati.

[bradshaw2ben]

Ridder going back to Cinci is SBI, we ride Ben one more year and then this is one of the targets for next QB of the Steelers.

Pete Thamel
@PeteThamel
.
@YahooSports
Exclusive: Cincinnati's Desmond Ridder says he will return to the Bearcats next season. With 15 starters back and a possible Top 10 preseason ranking,
@GoBearcatsFB
will again be in the CFP conversation. Big day for Cincinnati.

I am 100% down with this. If his coaching is good, they will work on fixing the hitch in his delivery, but there's a ton to like about his game. He was on track to be my surprise pick for the Steelers in our board draft.

[Steelknife]

We're not going to pick high enough to get a sure thing franchise QB. So we either need to prepare to trade for one, or take a flyer on less of a "sure bet."

Could we be within striking distance of a Kyle Trask? I think you have to consider it. Our roster is simply not going to be bad enough to be in range of picking a "sure bet" QB early, even if Ben retires. I think there are 6 QBs (Lawrence, Fields, Trask, Wilson, Jones, Lance is my off-the-cuff order) in this draft who could turn out to be franchise QBs. We'd be silly not to give one of them a look if they're available in the 20s.

[bradshaw2ben]

So he can have no left tackle?

And let’s not forget Ben’s cap hit is nearly as bad if he retires as it would be if he stays.

I think 2022 makes much more sense in terms of trading for or drafting a guy.

[Smashmouth21]

If you can get Watson. You do it. Period.

That said, highly unlikely.

[Pabst]

And let’s not forget Ben’s cap hit is nearly as bad if he retires as it would be if he stays.

Steelers would save $19 million if he retires. Ben is due a $15m roster bonus next year (paid on the 3rd league day) and his base salary is $4m.

https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/pittsburgh- ... rger-3595/

[Steelknife]

So he can have no left tackle?

And let’s not forget Ben’s cap hit is nearly as bad if he retires as it would be if he stays.

I think 2022 makes much more sense in terms of trading for or drafting a guy.

2022 doesn’t have nearly the number of prospects at QB of the level they are this year. We can disagree on who will pan out, but there is a case to be made for 6 first-round-caliber QBs. If I’m forced to draft a QB a year early or a LT in preparation for eventually drafting a QB, I take the QB.

[meanjustinbarlow]

No way they could afford Watson LOL

What a silly thought. That's 3 1st rounders easily. Contract or no contract.

Ben's replacement is coming in 2022+ whether we like it or not.

[tunch]

What picks? 1st and next years 2nd- the Texans are smoking dope wanting 2 firsts, multiple seconds, and more

You do realize that a moron that loves to overpay runs the REDSKINS, right?

Plus the REDSKINS are in the right conference for a trade and Watson is from the South.

The Haskins release showed how much he power Rivera has in running that team. Nobody has had that sort of control before now. I Just don't see Riverboat giving up picks while he's trying to get some help on the back end of that defense which is borderline excellent this year. With a great defense they'll want is a guy who isn't going to turn the ball over and manage the game- a la Alex Smith.

First off, I can't think of a single person that has defended Haskins. He's an asshole. You can deal with a total asshole at any position that isn't quarterback. The ceiling career for an asshole quarterback is Jeff George.

No coach wants a game manager. Game managers are a last resort. Franchise QBs keep coaches employed for a decade (see: Fat Mike McCarthy, Mike Tomlin).

There's a reason why franchise QBs *never* hit the market. Ron is just fine with giving up the house for Watson.

[Steelknife]

When it appears Ben still has a few very good years left

[bradshaw2ben]

When it appears Ben still has a few very good years left

Well, it ain't looking good tonight. Although that last throw was fine... right through the hands of a guy who wasn't even in the air.

[Havoc]

I would be on board with making a deal for Watson.

We would have our next franchise QB (I think).

I remember 25 years after Bradshaw. I would do anything to get the next guy, figure out the rest later.

[Steelperch]

Packers need to dump Aaron Rodgers in another year or two.

But realistically, you ride Ben another year or two, suck for a year with Mason Rudolph then hope to draft the next QB. It’s gonna be a few down years guys.

[Professor Half Wit]

When it appears Ben still has a few very good years left

Well, it ain't looking good tonight. Although that last throw was fine... right through the hands of a guy who wasn't even in the air.

1. The people NEED a final post-mortem podcast. NEED IT.
2. In that podcast, I'd sure like an honest discussion of whether you folks really think Ben can be consistently good going forward.

I'm a football dumb ass, but it looks to me, B2B, like you are being led by flashes of old brilliance to conclude Ben is still capable of being consistently and continuously very good. I do not think he is. I think when we see good Ben we think, "He still has it! Fire Randy!" Randy should be fired. But I think the Ben who is always very good, every series, every game—that guy is gone.

Can we still get to a SB with him? Maybe. But it will take elite defense and and elite coaching offensive coaching and playvalling and one helluva run game.

Given the current state of the oline and the very sad possibility ol' Randy won't be fired and Tomlin's addiction to attrition football, I don't see it happening.

[Greeksteel]

Well, it ain't looking good tonight. Although that last throw was fine... right through the hands of a guy who wasn't even in the air.

1. The people NEED a final post-mortem podcast. NEED IT.
2. In that podcast, I'd sure like an honest discussion of whether you folks really think Ben can be consistently good going forward.

I'm a football dumb ass, but it looks to me, B2B, like you are being led by flashes of old brilliance to conclude Ben is still capable of being consistently and continuously very good. I do not think he is. I think when we see good Ben we think, "He still has it! Fire Randy!" Randy should be fired. But I think the Ben who is always very good, every series, every game—that guy is gone.

Can we still get to a SB with him? Maybe. But it will take elite defense and and elite coaching offensive coaching and playvalling and one helluva run game.

Given the current state of the oline and the very sad possibility ol' Randy won't be fired and Tomlin's addiction to attrition football, I don't see it happening.

Dont need to fire Randy, his contract is up

[DP39]

Well, it ain't looking good tonight. Although that last throw was fine... right through the hands of a guy who wasn't even in the air.

1. The people NEED a final post-mortem podcast. NEED IT.
2. In that podcast, I'd sure like an honest discussion of whether you folks really think Ben can be consistently good going forward.

I'm a football dumb ass, but it looks to me, B2B, like you are being led by flashes of old brilliance to conclude Ben is still capable of being consistently and continuously very good. I do not think he is. I think when we see good Ben we think, "He still has it! Fire Randy!" Randy should be fired. But I think the Ben who is always very good, every series, every game—that guy is gone.

Can we still get to a SB with him? Maybe. But it will take elite defense and and elite coaching offensive coaching and playvalling and one helluva run game.

Given the current state of the oline and the very sad possibility ol' Randy won't be fired and Tomlin's addiction to attrition football, I don't see it happening.

Prof, this is sorta where I'm at. My mind and eyes were there a few years ago, but my heart and some of Ben's champions here lead me to being open minded about being wrong. Last night my eyes again convinced me I was right all along -- not that I wanted to be.

Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice....

You get the idea.

[bradshaw2ben]

I'm a football dumb ass, but it looks to me, B2B, like you are being led by flashes of old brilliance to conclude Ben is still capable of being consistently and continuously very good. I do not think he is. I think when we see good Ben we think, "He still has it! Fire Randy!" Randy should be fired. But I think the Ben who is always very good, every series, every game—that guy is gone.

I don't think you're football dumb at all, but I think Ben has always been a bit like this. He's a streak shooter. His biggest issue is that he plays in a system that has never done him any favors. He doesn't get schemed many (if any) easy looks and they never seemed concerned with getting him into a rhythm until they're down three scores.

The Ben from yesterday is pretty much indistinguishable from the one who played in the Jacksonville playoff game. He no longer has Lev Bell and the OL is a shell of what it once was. But, he moved to make time in the pocket, he threw off target a few times early and then dropped dimes for three quarters. is he the same guy as 2005? No. As 2008? Not physically but he's better than that guy mentally. As 2009? Probably his peak Venn diagram of physical skills and understanding of the game/coverage. Then 2010 nearly broke him. He bounced back a little by 2014, but by then the physical skills were ever so slowly beginning to decline. To my eye, he's been pretty much the same since 2016 0r 2017, just playing a different style game because that's what's asked of him and that's the personnel he has.

I agree with Perch that you're probably going to play with him under center for a year or two, during which he may not be enough to get a depleted roster over the hump. But I think that has less to do with his skills and more to do with the roster and the coaching.

Let's say Tomlin retires. Mike Munchak becomes the head coach. New coordinators. It's possible they could reload in 2021 and 2022 draft and Ben could have one more window in 2022 with an aging but still good Heyward/Decastro, a better and younger OL, a better RB crew, a real offensive system, a defensive mind who unlocks the secret to postseason football, peak Chase and DJ, peak TJ Watt, Peak Minkah. All of that is possible... but extremely unlikely.

Allow a guy to dream, won't you?

[COR-TEN]

I agree with Perch that you're probably going to play with him under center for a year or two, during which he may not be enough to get a depleted roster over the hump.

Provided BR wants to play. Otherwise, we have a red nose reindeer.

[bradshaw2ben]

I agree with Perch that you're probably going to play with him under center for a year or two, during which he may not be enough to get a depleted roster over the hump.

Provided BR wants to play. Otherwise, we have a red nose reindeer.

Postgame, he looked like a guy who isn't done... but who knows how it will play out.

[Steeldrama]

I’m going to agree with GMFB’s Kyle Brandt on something here that contradicts this narrative how great Ben looked post game that is such a desperate reach.

I knew watching that crew was going to be painful especially with mega toolbox Michael Robinson filling in for Nate but I decided to suffer through the Steelers segment anyway
Glutton for punishment I guess

Anyway KB said he thinks Ben will retire
I don’t agree
Too much money to leave on the table

But what I do agree with is what he ranted about Ben APPEARING not to enjoy football this season even while the Steelers were on their undefeated streak.
I’ve thought that for the past few seasons
His body language is Eli Manning bad

No I don’t think Ben retires but I do think if he comes back it’s for the money.
I’m sure his whole win for Pouncey was legit it’s too dumb not to be
Since I believe Ben is coming back I wish he actually enjoyed playing football
Will be Depressing to watch another season of such joyless play.

[955876]

Once you get removed from something you love and are passionate about it can be hard to rev that back up.

Not same thing at all but a few years back I had to give up golf. At the time I was at the height of my addiction/affair with the game.

Was very difficult not playing at first but once I got used to it I ended up not missing it hugely. What I came to realize is man, golf sure takes a whole hell of a lot of time.

Didn’t touch the clubs for about 12-18 months.

Once I started to get back into it something was different. The passion was gone. I no longer desired to practice. And as a former range rat I used to love practicing.

I pushed through it because there are many times where I golf for work. So want to maintain my skill level to at least a respectable degree.

Now golfing at times feels like work. Something I have to do rather than something I love to do.

Ben is likely somewhere similar with this.

He may have lost the spark but feels a sense of obligation to the team, the fans, the city etc.

Real tough job to simply go through the motions with.

His play reflects this greatly at times.

[Kodiak]

But what I do agree with is what he ranted about Ben APPEARING not to enjoy football this season even while the Steelers were on their undefeated streak.
I’ve thought that for the past few seasons
His body language is Eli Manning bad

I'm not sure I completely agree. At the beginning of the year, Ben talked about how much he loved the game and how excited he was to be back. Said more than once "football was fun [again]", which I think was partly a dig at former drama queens AB and Lev.

As the year went on, I saw a guy frustrated with his play, and the playcalling. And the drops. And the wrong routes.

I think a lot of that can get ironed out in camp next year. If he can rediscover his downfield touch and accuracy he'll be back. If not, he might pull an Andrew Luck and call it quits before the season.

How easy it is to forget that before the shitshow that was the last month and a half, Ben was 11-0 and an MVP candidate. I find it really hard to believe he wasn't having fun during that run.

[Steeldrama]

Good comparison, ‘95

With your wife sick, you had good reason to step away from the great game of golf.
Easy choice on your part
Hopefully you find a spark and find your love for it again.

I stepped away from golf for a year but for vastly different reason than you.
I had neck fusion surgery two months back so hopefully after I finish PT I can return to golf pain free.
I miss it but am apprehensive

[955876]

Good luck with that Drama. Hope the recovery comes along.

Back/neck issues and golf are certainly a tough combo.

With some luck you’ll be back to playing scratch golf in no time...

[Professor Half Wit]

I'm a football dumb ass, but it looks to me, B2B, like you are being led by flashes of old brilliance to conclude Ben is still capable of being consistently and continuously very good. I do not think he is. I think when we see good Ben we think, "He still has it! Fire Randy!" Randy should be fired. But I think the Ben who is always very good, every series, every game—that guy is gone.

I don't think you're football dumb

Stop right there. First, thanks for the generous response. Second, I am not dumb. I am football dumb. Never played. I watch games. What you see and understand is light years beyond what I understand when I watch. I come here for fun, comradery, and to get schooled by football heads.

This site is the best there is, both for knowledge and getting your balls busted.

[bradshaw2ben]

Good comparison, ‘95

With your wife sick, you had good reason to step away from the great game of golf.
Easy choice on your part
Hopefully you find a spark and find your love for it again.

I stepped away from golf for a year but for vastly different reason than you.
I had neck fusion surgery two months back so hopefully after I finish PT I can return to golf pain free.
I miss it but am apprehensive

and here I thought I was your pain in the neck

get well, fellow... the board draft is only a couple months away