Kendrick Green?

[JackLambert58]

Green coming out of college was an undersized straight line athlete.

IMO the impact of the center position in general is underrated. QB's need a brick wall in front of them. QB's have a chance to sidestep pressure coming from the side.

Yep. There’s a reason the great Steeler teams had Mike Webster, Dermontti Dawson, and Jeff Hartings. That’s three decades worth of centers you don’t want to mess with.

No love for Pouncey?

Or the Ranger?

[Jizz Mop]

It doesn’t come down to one “woulda coulda shoulda”

But we’d be set at C for a while

Instead we have a nice TE, nice WR group and nice RB but a shit offensive line

If Green is opening day starter I’m going to Pitt and pulling a Lee Harvey Oswald from upper deck

I will be your get away driver

Deal! Ha!

[955876]

Every fanbase plays the hindsight game.
'The Steelers should have taken Humphrey instead of Freiermuth.'
Maybe, but it wasn't like Muth came in and didn't contribute. 60 catches and 7 TD's is great production from a second round pick. And he provided something the Steelers offense lacked for years, a RZ target.
My biggest problem with him is yards per catch due to a lack of explosiveness.

I have a feeling he is going to improve this year and be a good TE. And this from a guy that didn't want to touch him until the third round last year.

The Steelers real problem isn't passing on Humphrey. The real problem is that they only used ONE premium pick on the OL for a decade. That is why the OL is garbage, not one pick(Green).

Oh yeah, go back and look at how the Steelers ignored the TE position for nearly a decade. Then they used one last year who is going to be a player for a decade and fans want to bash them on passing on a particular player. Too easy a game to play.

I’ve been clear that I’m not bashing Muth and think he’s a good player.

But without an oline it matters not.

This staff gets lost in the forest looking for trees.

And ya, they ignore the oline for a decade. That doesn’t change the fact we are a better team with Humphrey than we are with Muth.

Just saying.

Our line is awful.

Not disparaging Muth. I am attacking the failed thought process this team keeps stunning its toe on come draft day.

See Wee Bitty Dri Archer and then having to pull a jag off his couch to start a playoff game.

They lost that game before the season even started all because again, they got lost in the forest looking for trees.

[fractalsteel]

Every fanbase plays the hindsight game.
'The Steelers should have taken Humphrey instead of Freiermuth.'
Maybe, but it wasn't like Muth came in and didn't contribute. 60 catches and 7 TD's is great production from a second round pick. And he provided something the Steelers offense lacked for years, a RZ target.
My biggest problem with him is yards per catch due to a lack of explosiveness.

I have a feeling he is going to improve this year and be a good TE. And this from a guy that didn't want to touch him until the third round last year.

The Steelers real problem isn't passing on Humphrey. The real problem is that they only used ONE premium pick on the OL for a decade. That is why the OL is garbage, not one pick(Green).

Oh yeah, go back and look at how the Steelers ignored the TE position for nearly a decade. Then they used one last year who is going to be a player for a decade and fans want to bash them on passing on a particular player. Too easy a game to play.

I’ve been clear that I’m not bashing Muth and think he’s a good player.
I wasn't saying that you were bashing Freiermuth and I understand your belief that Humphrey is better/more important than Muth.
But without an oline it matters not.

This staff gets lost in the forest looking for trees.
It is a wonder that they get home at night

And ya, they ignore the oline for a decade. That doesn’t change the fact we are a better team with Humphrey than we are with Muth.
Let's give this argument a rest until we see both players for another year or two. Sometimes players level off after fantastic rookie years.

Just saying.

Our line is awful.
Yes, but the line was nearly as bad as last year and they still made the playoffs, had a 1000 yd rusher, a 100 catch receiver and an aged QB throw for 3500 yards. All that with the offense handcuffed my a moron who loves antiquated football.

Not disparaging Muth. I am attacking the failed thought process this team keeps stunning its toe on come draft day.
If they passed on Muth it would be Gentry and Radar one/two at the TE position with a rookie(Heyward) learning a new position. That is a pure shit position without 88.
Look at the eight TE's drafted after Muth. The best any of them did was 20 catches. He was the last premium TE in a weak class.

See Wee Bitty Dri Archer and then having to pull a jag off his couch to start a playoff game.
I'm over Dri Archer just like I'm over the other wasted premium draft picks years gone.

They lost that game before the season even started all because again, they got lost in the forest looking for trees.

[955876]

I'm over Dri Archer just like I'm over the other wasted premium draft picks years gone.

As long as the Jibberin fool is here Dri (or the equivalent) will surface again.

It isn’t about Archer. It’s about the failed thought process that led the powers to be to think that was good value for a 3rd rounder.

Dri is but an example of how fucking stupid these idiots I charge have been.

I get teams miss on pics. That is a “duh” statement.

This team doesn’t just miss on pics. They whiff on thought process and roster building.

Totally different.

Dri great example. RB depth is a blackhole. So what does braintrust do?? Draft a 175 Lb pip squeak in the third round.

Ok. Maybe a weapon on a loaded team given his speed bit on a team without RB #2 going into three draft how to you pull that trigger???

It’s just flat out dumb and gross incompetence.

The Muth over Creed choice isn’t as bad but still dumb in terms of thought process given the roster, the oline, and the fact they just burned a #1 on a RB.

He needs room to run. That TE isn’t really loving that needle.

This staff is stupid. Plain and simple. And it starts with the Jibberin wordsmiff that is not only a game day idiot but a clueless fuck in terms of roster building.

He’s lost more games based than he has won

[Who Dee Knee]

I am so sick and tired of watching Green get roller-skated back to the quarterback like a complete pussy.

[Jizz Mop]

I am so sick and tired of watching Green get roller-skated back to the quarterback like a complete pussy.

What he’s put on film is below the line, if you will, obviously.

An offensive line is truly only as good as it’s weakest link. Green might be the biggest fucking turd the line has ever seen, and that’s saying something.

Can’t let that POS start. Dotson needs to get his shot together. Or give LG to Leglue. Whatever. No way Green sees the field f I’m the HC.

But then again I’m not a fucking idiot.

[fractalsteel]

I'm over Dri Archer just like I'm over the other wasted premium draft picks years gone.

As long as the Jibberin fool is here Dri (or the equivalent) will surface again.
Agreed
It isn’t about Archer. It’s about the failed thought process that led the powers to be to think that was good value for a 3rd rounder.
Not the only example. Steelers played a cover 3 shell and Artie Burns couldn't master the basic concepts-should have seen that on film.
Dri is but an example of how fucking stupid these idiots I charge have been.

I get teams miss on pics. That is a “duh” statement.

This team doesn’t just miss on pics. They whiff on thought process and roster building.

Totally different.

Dri great example. RB depth is a blackhole. So what does braintrust do?? Draft a 175 Lb pip squeak in the third round.
I guess it is about Dri. Think back to the draft two years before him. Tomlin tried this tiny RB experiment before Archer. Look it up.
Ok. Maybe a weapon on a loaded team given his speed bit on a team without RB #2 going into three draft how to you pull that trigger???

It’s just flat out dumb and gross incompetence.

The Muth over Creed choice isn’t as bad but still dumb in terms of thought process given the roster, the oline, and the fact they just burned a #1 on a RB.
Two positions in need of talent. They addressed both but made a horrible pick in the third round.
He needs room to run. That TE isn’t really loving that needle.

This staff is stupid. Plain and simple. And it starts with the Jibberin wordsmiff that is not only a game day idiot but a clueless fuck in terms of roster building.
Could have drafted Creed and Chase last year but it would have mattered not. Not a contending squad and that falls on the HC(mostly) and his empowering owner.

He’s lost more games based than he has won

A lot of the issues fall on Deuce.
All he had to do was look across town at Lemieux and his hockey team. Had two of the very best players in the world along with a talented roster.
When it became clear that the HC(Bylsma/Danny boy) wasn't fit any longer Mario axed him even though he had won a Cup. No, Mario wasn't going to waste the best years of 87/7. He made a HC change and the next guy(Johnston) was worse so he fired that clown.
In two years the Pens were on their third HC and this time it worked out with the team winning back to back cups.
You think Deuce has the balls to do something like that?
It is the number one issue with the organization.

I don't think they are forward enough thinkers to have a plan on rebuilding the team and worse they don't see this team, right now, as a team that is rebuilding. Another big albatross in organizational thinking.

[COR-TEN]

I'm over Dri Archer just like I'm over the other wasted premium draft picks years gone.

As long as the Jibberin fool is here Dri (or the equivalent) will surface again.
Agreed
It isn’t about Archer. It’s about the failed thought process that led the powers to be to think that was good value for a 3rd rounder.
Not the only example. Steelers played a cover 3 shell and Artie Burns couldn't master the basic concepts-should have seen that on film.
Dri is but an example of how fucking stupid these idiots I charge have been.

I get teams miss on pics. That is a “duh” statement.

This team doesn’t just miss on pics. They whiff on thought process and roster building.

Totally different.

Dri great example. RB depth is a blackhole. So what does braintrust do?? Draft a 175 Lb pip squeak in the third round.
I guess it is about Dri. Think back to the draft two years before him. Tomlin tried this tiny RB experiment before Archer. Look it up.
Ok. Maybe a weapon on a loaded team given his speed bit on a team without RB #2 going into three draft how to you pull that trigger???

It’s just flat out dumb and gross incompetence.

The Muth over Creed choice isn’t as bad but still dumb in terms of thought process given the roster, the oline, and the fact they just burned a #1 on a RB.
Two positions in need of talent. They addressed both but made a horrible pick in the third round.
He needs room to run. That TE isn’t really loving that needle.

This staff is stupid. Plain and simple. And it starts with the Jibberin wordsmiff that is not only a game day idiot but a clueless fuck in terms of roster building.
Could have drafted Creed and Chase last year but it would have mattered not. Not a contending squad and that falls on the HC(mostly) and his empowering owner.

He’s lost more games based than he has won

A lot of the issues fall on Deuce.
All he had to do was look across town at Lemieux and his hockey team. Had two of the very best players in the world along with a talented roster.
When it became clear that the HC(Bylsma/Danny boy) wasn't fit any longer Mario axed him even though he had won a Cup. No, Mario wasn't going to waste the best years of 87/7. He made a HC change and the next guy(Johnston) was worse so he fired that clown.
In two years the Pens were on their third HC and this time it worked out with the team winning back to back cups.
You think Deuce has the balls to do something like that?
It is the number one issue with the organization.

I don't think they are forward enough thinkers to have a plan on rebuilding the team and worse they don't see this team, right now, as a team that is rebuilding. Another big albatross in organizational thinking.

What's the success rate for HC turnover in the NHL vs the NFL? IOW, can flipping coaches every year lead to success more in the NHL than the NFL? It's rare that an NFL franchise goes through coaches like kleenex and ends up winning a SB. At least that's what I remember without research. I realize the steelers value stability to an extreme, but the opposite extreme doesn't seem like it bears fruit either. And before people label me a tomlin defender(which is usually the case here when one doesn't conform to the group think), I'd be good if he retired or moved on.

[Kodiak.]

Tomlin might be the OG quiet quitter

[fractalsteel]

As long as the Jibberin fool is here Dri (or the equivalent) will surface again.
Agreed
It isn’t about Archer. It’s about the failed thought process that led the powers to be to think that was good value for a 3rd rounder.
Not the only example. Steelers played a cover 3 shell and Artie Burns couldn't master the basic concepts-should have seen that on film.
Dri is but an example of how fucking stupid these idiots I charge have been.

I get teams miss on pics. That is a “duh” statement.

This team doesn’t just miss on pics. They whiff on thought process and roster building.

Totally different.

Dri great example. RB depth is a blackhole. So what does braintrust do?? Draft a 175 Lb pip squeak in the third round.
I guess it is about Dri. Think back to the draft two years before him. Tomlin tried this tiny RB experiment before Archer. Look it up.
Ok. Maybe a weapon on a loaded team given his speed bit on a team without RB #2 going into three draft how to you pull that trigger???

It’s just flat out dumb and gross incompetence.

The Muth over Creed choice isn’t as bad but still dumb in terms of thought process given the roster, the oline, and the fact they just burned a #1 on a RB.
Two positions in need of talent. They addressed both but made a horrible pick in the third round.
He needs room to run. That TE isn’t really loving that needle.

This staff is stupid. Plain and simple. And it starts with the Jibberin wordsmiff that is not only a game day idiot but a clueless fuck in terms of roster building.
Could have drafted Creed and Chase last year but it would have mattered not. Not a contending squad and that falls on the HC(mostly) and his empowering owner.

He’s lost more games based than he has won

A lot of the issues fall on Deuce.
All he had to do was look across town at Lemieux and his hockey team. Had two of the very best players in the world along with a talented roster.
When it became clear that the HC(Bylsma/Danny boy) wasn't fit any longer Mario axed him even though he had won a Cup. No, Mario wasn't going to waste the best years of 87/7. He made a HC change and the next guy(Johnston) was worse so he fired that clown.
In two years the Pens were on their third HC and this time it worked out with the team winning back to back cups.
You think Deuce has the balls to do something like that?
It is the number one issue with the organization.

I don't think they are forward enough thinkers to have a plan on rebuilding the team and worse they don't see this team, right now, as a team that is rebuilding. Another big albatross in organizational thinking.

What's the success rate for HC turnover in the NHL vs the NFL? IOW, can flipping coaches every year lead to success more in the NHL than the NFL? It's rare that an NFL franchise goes through coaches like kleenex and ends up winning a SB. At least that's what I remember without research. I realize the steelers value stability to an extreme, but the opposite extreme doesn't seem like it bears fruit either. And before people label me a tomlin defender(which is usually the case here when one doesn't conform to the group think), I'd be good if he retired or moved on.

Cor- don't know the answer to your first question but it feels like a lot of perennial loser organizations are too quick to fire their HC. To me, a HC should be given at least 2 years to see if he can get the team back on course.
It feels to me like the NHL owners are more patient with HC's. I could be very wrong though.

When Mario fired DB back in 2015(?) it was obvious that the team was underperforming. The same could be said about 2009 when DB replaced Thierren. Thierien was hated by the whole team(Malkin said he liked playing for him) and I'm sure that Sid and a few others got him canned. Thierien did get them to a cup final. Thierien is an asshole who shits on players.
After DB's firing and Johnston took over, the system he incorporated was so not what the Pens team makeup needed. Too methodical, to reliant on structured passing to gain the OZ. It stymied the talent on the team. He got axed mid season and they turned to Sullivan who brought in a bunch of younger players from WBS and the Pens clicked with the new coach and system and won back to back championships.

I'm guessing Mario saw his world class players inching in on turning 30 and the window was closing so he decided he would do what it took to make sure they reached another championship. So he fired DB then Johnston(all in less that 2 years) and struck gold with Sullivan.
But that was not a typical situation and Mario did what he thought he had to do. And I'm thankful he went that route.

What Deuce is doing with Tomlin is so frustrating. . I don't believe that Tomlin will ever win another SB in Pittsburgh. The standard is a winning season and getting a playoff berth even though they say championships are what drives them.
Yeah, right.

[Suwanee88]

If he was half as good before the whistle as he is after, we may have an AVERAGE offensive lineman. But he’s just an asshole like the owner and the coach.

Bloody shame.

[bradshaw2ben]

I am so sick and tired of watching Green get roller-skated back to the quarterback like a complete pussy.

What he’s put on film is below the line, if you will, obviously.

An offensive line is truly only as good as it’s weakest link. Green might be the biggest fucking turd the line has ever seen, and that’s saying something.

Can’t let that POS start. Dotson needs to get his shot together. Or give LG to Leglue. Whatever. No way Green sees the field f I’m the HC.

But then again I’m not a fucking idiot.

Green would easily be the 3rd best OL on the 2008 team. He'd be in the conversation for second best.

[Mick]

I am so sick and tired of watching Green get roller-skated back to the quarterback like a complete pussy.

What he’s put on film is below the line, if you will, obviously.

An offensive line is truly only as good as it’s weakest link. Green might be the biggest fucking turd the line has ever seen, and that’s saying something.

Can’t let that POS start. Dotson needs to get his shot together. Or give LG to Leglue. Whatever. No way Green sees the field f I’m the HC.

But then again I’m not a fucking idiot.

Green would easily be the 3rd best OL on the 2008 team. He'd be in the conversation for second best.

starks, colon, and kemo were fine. Hartwig was below average, stapleton was bad.

I would take hartwig over green easily. Stapleton is the only argument i would see.

I’m frustrated with Green; i still think he has upside to be an above average center at the NFL level, but instead of learning to play OC this past offseason he focused on OG, where he has 0 chance. What a waste.

[bradshaw2ben]

What he’s put on film is below the line, if you will, obviously.

An offensive line is truly only as good as it’s weakest link. Green might be the biggest fucking turd the line has ever seen, and that’s saying something.

Can’t let that POS start. Dotson needs to get his shot together. Or give LG to Leglue. Whatever. No way Green sees the field f I’m the HC.

But then again I’m not a fucking idiot.

Green would easily be the 3rd best OL on the 2008 team. He'd be in the conversation for second best.

starks, colon, and kemo were fine. Hartwig was below average, stapleton was bad.

I would take hartwig over green easily. Stapleton is the only argument i would see.

I’m frustrated with Green; i still think he has upside to be an above average center at the NFL level, but instead of learning to play OC this past offseason he focused on OG, where he has 0 chance. What a waste.

I agree 100% with the bolded.

[franco32]

All I kept hearing about Green was his elite lower body strength in college and how he squatted 700 lbs.

It doesn't matter. He's still undersized. He's losing the wingspan and length battle almost everyplay. He was undersized as a center....even more so as a guard. DD was 6'5 320. Ramon was 6'5 330+. Green is a little over 6'1 and while he's listed over slightly over 300 I'm not sure I believe it.

That's why you see the left side of the line collapse every play.

[955876]

It’s one thing if the issue is technical and the offenders just need to improve their fundamentals.

But our guys are just weak. They are overpowered physically.

There is no fix for that. At least not one that can occur over a short period.

If you draft undersized pussies you’ll have an undersized pussy.

Duh.

Jibbs needs to get kicked in the face by this mule 7-10 more times and maybe, just maybe he will realize he’s coaching in the NFL and not college or worse, high school.

I mean, he loves him some JV, varsity wordsmiff references.

It’s a shame too because I think with the weapons we now have these QBs just might be good enough for us to be in the mix.

Not with this oline. No way.

Caught a glimpse of Dan Moore’s arms yesterday. More soft flab than an 85 year old woman.

[franco32]

I know the Steelers hate analytics. But, Green is in the bottom 1% of NFL guards when it comes to size. It's just physics at a certain point. Whoever evaluates Oline is just plain DUMB. They became enamored with Green's movement skills, but they forgot that a guard/center doesn't pull every play. Movement won't help if you are getting your ass kicked in the phonebooth almost every play.

We could cut Green, and I'm almost positive he would clear waivers, and we could sign him to practice squad. Anyone disagree? I think that should be the approach here.

[COR-TEN]

I know the Steelers hate analytics. But, Green is in the bottom 1% of NFL guards when it comes to size. It's just physics at a certain point. Whoever evaluates Oline is just plain DUMB. They became enamored with Green's movement skills, but they forgot that a guard/center doesn't pull every play. Movement won't help if you are getting your ass kicked in the phonebooth almost every play.

We could cut Green, and I'm almost positive he would clear waivers, and we could sign him to practice squad. Anyone disagree? I think that should be the approach here.

I'm kinda in agreement. Most here think he should be cut outright, and I'm not sure I disagree.

[Jobu]

We could cut Green, and I'm almost positive he would clear waivers, and we could sign him to practice squad. Anyone disagree? I think that should be the approach here.

I’m really hoping that’s what they do. I know they hate to give up on draft picks so early, but you really cannot justify keeping this guy on the 53 right now.

[fractalsteel]

We could cut Green, and I'm almost positive he would clear waivers, and we could sign him to practice squad. Anyone disagree? I think that should be the approach here.

I’m really hoping that’s what they do. I know they hate to give up on draft picks so early, but you really cannot justify keeping this guy on the 53 right now.

Yup, it is a very good idea and makes a lot of sense so they won't do it.

[Gonzo]

How can the 2022 Steelers even aspire to be a team fighting for a playoff spot starting Green on offense & Bush on defence? Meanwhile, I would include Don Rickles to the Shecky Greene / Buddy Hackett / Marty Allen o-line. I'd also add Alan Arkin. Arkin who moved pretty good doing the serpentine. Unfortunately unless the Steelers can acquire Mike Munchak & have him waive his magic o-line wand, the 2022 o-line may be as laughable as a Rickles / Hackett / Greene / Allen /Arkin o-line.

Ruth buzzi at C over green
Or Phyllis diller

[img]https://ogden_images.s3.amazonaws.com/www.post-journal.com/images/2017/03/03233829/buzzi1.jpg[/img]

[Gonzo]

I am so sick and tired of watching Green get roller-skated back to the quarterback like a complete pussy.

What he’s put on film is below the line, if you will, obviously.

An offensive line is truly only as good as it’s weakest link. Green might be the biggest fucking turd the line has ever seen, and that’s saying something.

Can’t let that POS start. Dotson needs to get his shot together. Or give LG to Leglue. Whatever. No way Green sees the field f I’m the HC.

But then again I’m not a fucking idiot.

Green would easily be the 3rd best OL on the 2008 team. He'd be in the conversation for second best.

Beat me to it … tha5 group drove me batshit
Hartwig and the Stapler created rage game day at my house

[langer]

How can the 2022 Steelers even aspire to be a team fighting for a playoff spot starting Green on offense & Bush on defence? Meanwhile, I would include Don Rickles to the Shecky Greene / Buddy Hackett / Marty Allen o-line. I'd also add Alan Arkin. Arkin who moved pretty good doing the serpentine. Unfortunately unless the Steelers can acquire Mike Munchak & have him waive his magic o-line wand, the 2022 o-line may be as laughable as a Rickles / Hackett / Greene / Allen /Arkin o-line.

Ruth buzzi at C over green
Or Phyllis diller

[img]https://ogden_images.s3.amazonaws.com/www.post-journal.com/images/2017/03/03233829/buzzi1.jpg[/img]

Bea Arthur, she would strike fear into any D lineman’s heart. She kicked Dave Butz’s ass in a bar fight once I heard.