2 Spots were Khan not Done

[steelmann58]

Get the olb next

[Scunge]

Right now Herbig’s measurables + college track record have him as a smaller, slower, weaker Malik Reed. The good news with Herbig is that he’s like 3 years away from maturing physically, where Reed maxed out like 5 years ago. But that good news doesn’t help Herbig try to improve on Reed this fall.

I call bullshit on that Mick. From what I have gathered, Mailk Reed was 6'1" 234 at his pro day, he ran a 4.85, had a 1.63 10 yard split, 4.35 shuttle, 32.5 vertical and did 19 reps on the bench.

Nick Herbig was 6'2" 240, ran a 4.65, had a 1.59 10 yard split, 4.35 shuttle, 34 inch vertical and did 25 reps on the bench.

Herbig is bigger, faster, stronger than Reed. These past two years, Herbig has been maturing physically, has been adding weight, getting stronger, working out with TJ Watt, TJ Edwards, etc. Have you seen all of the Wisconsin linebackers that have come to the NFL recently and had success? Why can't Herbig be the next one to do so??

In college Reed played in 42 games and had 22 sacks, and 38.5 tackles for loss.

Herbig played in 31 games and had 21 sacks and 36 tackles for loss. Herbig nearly had the same production as Reed, but played at a bigger school, against better competition and with 11 fewer games played.

If people are sour on Herbig being a starter as a rookie, yeah, that would concern me, but we are talking about being the #3 OLB who will play maybe 300-350 snaps. Herbig can do that easily and do it well even as a rookie.

True, Reed did not do well last year for us, but in his previous stop, Denver, when he was the #3 playing in a rotation with Chubb and Miller (and filling in for injuries), he thrived, he had 15 sacks and 30 QB Hits in 3 years with them. Reed is smaller, slower, weaker than Herbig, has shorter arms too and yet was productive.

I see Herbig as a poor man's Chad Brown and that is good enough for me.

[bradshaw2ben]

And I'm not cranky, I'm just in wait-and-see mode on parts of the team some fans have just decided arbitrarily are going to be great.

Do you mean guys like Joey Porter Jr, Darnell Washington, Broderick Jones, George Pickens, and Little Kenny Pickett?

Hey, I'm, really excited about Jones, Pickens, Darnell Washington... can even look forward to seeing JPJ to see if it works. Otherwise, yes, I am gonna need to see a lot more from Kenny P, Obie Trice, & Herbig.

[Jobu]

And I'm not cranky, I'm just in wait-and-see mode on parts of the team some fans have just decided arbitrarily are going to be great.

Do you mean guys like Joey Porter Jr, Darnell Washington, Broderick Jones, George Pickens, and Little Kenny Pickett?

Hey, I'm, really excited about Jones, Pickens, Darnell Washington... can even look forward to seeing JPJ to see if it works. Otherwise, yes, I am gonna need to see a lot more from Kenny P, Obie Trice, & Herbig.

Being excited is one thing, crowning players before they’ve actually proven themselves on a NFL football field, and in some cases, before they’ve even stepped onto a NFL football field is something else.
Let’s be truly honest…the odds that all four (or five) of the Steelers top picks this year will be hits is very low. It’s very likely that at least one, and possibly two or more of these guys will have JAG level NFL careers. And as for last years top two picks, I don’t know that I’ve ever seen mediocre (at best) seasons be met with more excitement in all my years.

[bradshaw2ben]

Some Steelers fans want desperately to believe they're not entering the dark days of no stud QB and lackluster offense, especially when paired with a coach who lives attrition ball like he invented it and a braindead OC.

I get it. Many of them are too young to ever remember rooting for the team before Ben! Understanding how hard it is to root for the team you are used to being a contender every year when they're good but not great––that's unknown territory for many.

Here, where we skew older, we just want to have some glimmer of hope since we are all painfully aware how long we have left and have done the math about how long it was between Bradshaw & Ben.

Hey, sometimes dreams come true.

[Mick]

Some Steelers fans want desperately to believe they're not entering the dark days of no stud QB and lackluster offense, especially when paired with a coach who lives attrition ball like he invented it and a braindead OC.

I get it. Many of them are too young to ever remember rooting for the team before Ben! Understanding how hard it is to root for the team you are used to being a contender every year when they're good but not great––that's unknown territory for many.

Here, where we skew older, we just want to have some glimmer of hope since we are all painfully aware how long we have left and have done the math about how long it was between Bradshaw & Ben.

Hey, sometimes dreams come true.

i just don’t understand how people don’t see how much more postseason success we had in the last decade with ben vs. the decade before Ben.

[daikyu]

Maybe we will be in the dark ages for a while. Maybe not.

One thing to note is the team did just as well record-wise with a rookie QB without the franchise label attached as we did with our first-ballot Hall of Fame QB.

Some Steelers fans want desperately to believe they're not entering the dark days of no stud QB and lackluster offense, especially when paired with a coach who lives attrition ball like he invented it and a braindead OC.

I get it. Many of them are too young to ever remember rooting for the team before Ben! Understanding how hard it is to root for the team you are used to being a contender every year when they're good but not great––that's unknown territory for many.

Here, where we skew older, we just want to have some glimmer of hope since we are all painfully aware how long we have left and have done the math about how long it was between Bradshaw & Ben.

Hey, sometimes dreams come true.

[lifelongsteel]

SF definitely over indexes in negativity, or realism, depending on your view.

As an aggregate we believe that:
- Tomlin sucks
- Canada sucks
- Steelers don't draft well
- etc etc.

Yet, they did go 9-8 last year with all of these disadvantages, which gives me hope as we look at the possible improvements that will come as a young team maturing and what looks like a good talent infusion.

Now, can any team build a 5-8 year competitive run without one of the top QBs in their conference, let alone their division? it hasn't happened often.

Odds are at best the Steelers become the 2010's Bengals or the current Vikings, where really good rosters can't get over the hump due to average to slightly better than average QBs.

That said, I'm riding with Kenny until he's not the guy anymore. Then I'll ride with the next guy.

[bradshaw2ben]

Maybe we will be in the dark ages for a while. Maybe not.

One thing to note is the team did just as well record-wise with a rookie QB without the franchise label attached as we did with our first-ballot Hall of Fame QB.

And this is the crux of it. If you think that shitshow of the last year and a half of Ben was made worse because Ben sucked and wasn't better than a rookie, then you're unfazed about the current situation. Why would you be?

[Scunge]

Some Steelers fans want desperately to believe they're not entering the dark days of no stud QB and lackluster offense, especially when paired with a coach who lives attrition ball like he invented it and a braindead OC.

I get it. Many of them are too young to ever remember rooting for the team before Ben! Understanding how hard it is to root for the team you are used to being a contender every year when they're good but not great––that's unknown territory for many.

Here, where we skew older, we just want to have some glimmer of hope since we are all painfully aware how long we have left and have done the math about how long it was between Bradshaw & Ben.

Hey, sometimes dreams come true.

Well I am old enough to remember the Dark Days but were they really that dark? There are probably some 25 organizations that would love to have the supposed 'Dark Days' that were from the end of Bradshaw to the beginning of Big Ben.

From 1983 to 2003, this terrible, terrible time, these 'Dark Days', the Pittsburgh Steelers were so embarrassing that they did this:

Went 185-149-1, a .552 winning percentage. They had 14 winning seasons. They made the Playoffs 11 times. They won the division 9 times and finished 2nd place twice. In those 11 playoff appearances, this team had the audacity to make it to the AFC championship game 5 times. They made it to the Super Bowl in 1995.

As I said, there are many, many NFL teams and fanbases that would give up their first child to have that success.

Show me a Pittsburgh Steeler fan and I will show you the most whiny spoiled brat in all of football.

[SteelerDayTrader]

Some Steelers fans want desperately to believe they're not entering the dark days of no stud QB and lackluster offense, especially when paired with a coach who lives attrition ball like he invented it and a braindead OC.

I get it. Many of them are too young to ever remember rooting for the team before Ben! Understanding how hard it is to root for the team you are used to being a contender every year when they're good but not great––that's unknown territory for many.

Here, where we skew older, we just want to have some glimmer of hope since we are all painfully aware how long we have left and have done the math about how long it was between Bradshaw & Ben.

Hey, sometimes dreams come true.

Well I am old enough to remember the Dark Days but were they really that dark? There are probably some 25 organizations that would love to have the supposed 'Dark Days' that were from the end of Bradshaw to the beginning of Big Ben.

From 1983 to 2003, this terrible, terrible time, these 'Dark Days', the Pittsburgh Steelers were so embarrassing that they did this:

Went 185-149-1, a .552 winning percentage. They had 14 winning seasons. They made the Playoffs 11 times. They won the division 9 times and finished 2nd place twice. In those 11 playoff appearances, this team had the audacity to make it to the AFC championship game 5 times. They made it to the Super Bowl in 1995.

As I said, there are many, many NFL teams and fanbases that would give up their first child to have that success.

Show me a Pittsburgh Steeler fan and I will show you the most whiny spoiled brat in all of football.

What you aren’t calculating is the time between Bradshaw and Ben might look ok on paper

But NO ONE really thought the team had any chance at a Lombardi

Sure we all HOPED it would somehow magically happen but those teams lacked a lot at QB and we all knew it deep down

[Scunge]

If you say so, I loved that 1994-1995 team, I was as hopeful for that team as I was for the team in 2005 or 2008.

To me you sound stupid saying 'Dark Days' during that 1983-2003 period. Dark days was pre-Chuck Noll, those were teams that had no hope whatsoever, we were the laughingstock of the NFL.

[K_C_]

I find that watching college highlight reels is not a good indicator of success at the NFL level.

Hope Herbig can contribute.

I find looking for 2022 Malik Reed highlights beyond futile.

Because there weren’t any.

[bradshaw2ben]

If you say so, I loved that 1994-1995 team, I was as hopeful for that team as I was for the team in 2005 or 2008.

To me you sound stupid saying 'Dark Days' during that 1983-2003 period. Dark days was pre-Chuck Noll, those were teams that had no hope whatsoever, we were the laughingstock of the NFL.

Those 94 and 95 teams broke my heart so hard.

[Thrillsseeker]

I find that watching college highlight reels is not a good indicator of success at the NFL level.

Hope Herbig can contribute.

I find looking for 2022 Malik Reed highlights beyond futile.

Because there weren’t any.

Lmao. Right on. What a waste that pickup was.

[Steeldrama]

If you say so, I loved that 1994-1995 team, I was as hopeful for that team as I was for the team in 2005 or 2008.

To me you sound stupid saying 'Dark Days' during that 1983-2003 period. Dark days was pre-Chuck Noll, those were teams that had no hope whatsoever, we were the laughingstock of the NFL.

Those 94 and 95 teams broke my heart so hard.

^
This
Attended every home game those two years
Was in my prime of primes post college
Sunday the grand finale to an always epic weekend
Loved those early Cowher teams
Criminal Blitzburgh didn’t bring home at least one Lombardi

[Mick]

I find that watching college highlight reels is not a good indicator of success at the NFL level.

Hope Herbig can contribute.

I find looking for 2022 Malik Reed highlights beyond futile.

Because there weren’t any.

its just the whole “[player X] was worthless, so we should be excited that he’s being replaced by [player Y, who we have no reason to believe is any good]” logic i don’t like.

“Can’t be any worse than that 2020 o-line” is how you end up with the absolute worst player in the league starting at 3 different positions on a single line in 2021.

If it was painful to watch a player be terrible all season, to me the answer should be “find someone good to replace him” not “grab someone off the street and figure he can’t be worse.”

For reference, the complete list of Day 3 Edge players drafted by the Steelers this century is:
Nathaniel Adibi
Thaddeus Gibson
Stevenson Sylvester
Chris Carter
Anthony Chickillo
Travis Feeney
Keion Adams
Sutton Smith
Quincy Roche
Nick Herbig (unless he’s an ILB; the Day 3 ILBs list is actually okayish)

Plug and play.

[Pabst]

I find that watching college highlight reels is not a good indicator of success at the NFL level.

Hope Herbig can contribute.

I find looking for 2022 Malik Reed highlights beyond futile.

Because there weren’t any.

its just the whole “[player X] was worthless, so we should be excited that he’s being replaced by [player Y, who we have no reason to believe is any good]” logic i don’t like.

“Can’t be any worse than that 2020 o-line” is how you end up with the absolute worst player in the league starting at 3 different positions on a single line in 2021.

If it was painful to watch a player be terrible all season, to me the answer should be “find someone good to replace him” not “grab someone off the street and figure he can’t be worse.”

For reference, the complete list of Day 3 Edge players drafted by the Steelers this century is:
Nathaniel Adibi
Thaddeus Gibson
Stevenson Sylvester
Chris Carter
Anthony Chickillo
Travis Feeney
Keion Adams
Sutton Smith
Quincy Roche
Nick Herbig (unless he’s an ILB; the Day 3 ILBs list is actually okayish)

Plug and play.

Pardon the nitpick, but Sylvester was an ILB. And to borrow your phrase, he was 'okayish' as a STer and backup.

[Mick]

If the Steelers draft a player, and he never plays from scrimmage, what position did he play? Feels a bit like “if a tree falls in the forest, and no one…”,

But i’d note that Sylvester had one career start where he registered a tackle, and in that game he was listed OLB starting opposite Jarvis Jones.

Also, looks like sylvester had ~1 ST tackle as a regular STer in 2012 and 2 in 2013; reference doesn’t have snap count breakdown for 2011 and before. Matakevich, for comparison, was good for 10-15 ST tackles/year.

[K_C_]

I find that watching college highlight reels is not a good indicator of success at the NFL level.

Hope Herbig can contribute.

I find looking for 2022 Malik Reed highlights beyond futile.

Because there weren’t any.

its just the whole “[player X] was worthless, so we should be excited that he’s being replaced by [player Y, who we have no reason to believe is any good]” logic i don’t like.

“Can’t be any worse than that 2020 o-line” is how you end up with the absolute worst player in the league starting at 3 different positions on a single line in 2021.

If it was painful to watch a player be terrible all season, to me the answer should be “find someone good to replace him” not “grab someone off the street and figure he can’t be worse.”

For reference, the complete list of Day 3 Edge players drafted by the Steelers this century is:
Nathaniel Adibi
Thaddeus Gibson
Stevenson Sylvester
Chris Carter
Anthony Chickillo
Travis Feeney
Keion Adams
Sutton Smith
Quincy Roche
Nick Herbig (unless he’s an ILB; the Day 3 ILBs list is actually okayish)

Plug and play.

Weird, you already added Herbig to that list of busts before he's played a single down.

I mean.....nothing else really need be said.

[Mick]

I find looking for 2022 Malik Reed highlights beyond futile.

Because there weren’t any.

its just the whole “[player X] was worthless, so we should be excited that he’s being replaced by [player Y, who we have no reason to believe is any good]” logic i don’t like.

“Can’t be any worse than that 2020 o-line” is how you end up with the absolute worst player in the league starting at 3 different positions on a single line in 2021.

If it was painful to watch a player be terrible all season, to me the answer should be “find someone good to replace him” not “grab someone off the street and figure he can’t be worse.”

For reference, the complete list of Day 3 Edge players drafted by the Steelers this century is:
Nathaniel Adibi
Thaddeus Gibson
Stevenson Sylvester
Chris Carter
Anthony Chickillo
Travis Feeney
Keion Adams
Sutton Smith
Quincy Roche
Nick Herbig (unless he’s an ILB; the Day 3 ILBs list is actually okayish)

Plug and play.

Weird, you already added Herbig to that list of busts before he's played a single down.

I mean.....nothing else really need be said.

That wasn’t a list of “busts”, it’s a list of Every Day 3 Edge Draft Picks by the Steelers This Century.

[SteelerDayTrader]

If you say so, I loved that 1994-1995 team, I was as hopeful for that team as I was for the team in 2005 or 2008.

To me you sound stupid saying 'Dark Days' during that 1983-2003 period. Dark days was pre-Chuck Noll, those were teams that had no hope whatsoever, we were the laughingstock of the NFL.

Those 94 and 95 teams broke my heart so hard.

Yep

[K_C_]

its just the whole “[player X] was worthless, so we should be excited that he’s being replaced by [player Y, who we have no reason to believe is any good]” logic i don’t like.

“Can’t be any worse than that 2020 o-line” is how you end up with the absolute worst player in the league starting at 3 different positions on a single line in 2021.

If it was painful to watch a player be terrible all season, to me the answer should be “find someone good to replace him” not “grab someone off the street and figure he can’t be worse.”

For reference, the complete list of Day 3 Edge players drafted by the Steelers this century is:
Nathaniel Adibi
Thaddeus Gibson
Stevenson Sylvester
Chris Carter
Anthony Chickillo
Travis Feeney
Keion Adams
Sutton Smith
Quincy Roche
Nick Herbig (unless he’s an ILB; the Day 3 ILBs list is actually okayish)

Plug and play.

Weird, you already added Herbig to that list of busts before he's played a single down.

I mean.....nothing else really need be said.

That wasn’t a list of “busts”, it’s a list of Every Day 3 Edge Draft Picks by the Steelers This Century.

Right, and none of them did very much at all. Chickillo was okay (far better than the invisible man, Malik Reed was, that's for sure) but overall, that is a list of busts.

Maybe Herbig joins that list. Maybe he doesn't. Just gotta let it play out and see.

EDIT: You should have mentioned that all of those guys were picked by Kevin Colbert.

Herbig wasn't.

[steelmann58]

i still think we add a vet LB at somepoint

[anpsteel]

They went the vet route at OLB last year with Malik Reed.

I think I could have made as many plays as Malik Reed did last season.

They love Herbig and he'll play a lot more than folks think he will. Roche will be there just in case, even though he sucks.

They went the vet route at ILB with Myles Jack.

Maybe we should just go with young guys at those two positions.

OMG you are fully smoking the kool-aid

Malik Reed was brutally awful. You’re telling me you’d be surprised if Herbig were an upgrade to fucking Malik
Reed?

Are you also concerned that one the new additions at ILB will struggle to replace Devin Bush or Myles Jack?

Richard Simmons and Charles Nelson Reilly would be upgrades over those 2 stiffs.

WTF.

Come on now, Charles Nelson Reilly was pretty funny