Mitch Extended

[stillthere]

I think Mitch is fine if he settled into career back-up. He young, mobile, and has an arm.

Saves us from having to worry bout the position at all.

Not sure why Bibbs was brought back. Keep that slot open for developmental guy.

Cool with me if he wants to be 3rd strong though. Whatever.

What are the odds Mason signed that contract yesterday thinking "well, I've got a decent shot of being the long-term backup here"? And then the very next day they extend Trubisky.

I'm going to start calling him Charlie Brown.

Could be that the lower cap number makes Mitch more attractive in trade negotiations in case of an injury to a QB on another team.

/s I still don't fully trust Mitch just due to the fact that he grew up a Browns fan. /s

[stillthere]

Which is odd (that he had no offers) given the 1st round grade we had on him….

Mighty long laundry list of 1st round graded QBs that have done far less than Mason Rudolph in the NFL.

[Jobu]

Which is odd (that he had no offers) given the 1st round grade we had on him….

Mighty long laundry list of 1st round graded QBs that have done far less than Mason Rudolph in the NFL.

This is true…

[stillthere]

Don’t forget we have a very lazy coach so not having to coach up back-up QBs and get them to learn the system is a plus for this staff.

Not having to teach a new QB the ins and outs of that room this year is actually in the best interest of KP8. Just like having Batch and Maddox around for Ben his first 2 years was in his best interest. Criticize away but keep in mind if KP8 is the guy going forward more stability now is the best foundation for his future. The team has a very young offense that needs some veteran players on that side of the ball. Is DJ18 gonna be the leader on O? Chuks? Dan Moore? The guy who is in year 2 or year 1 in a Steeler uniform?

As a team they are spending less than 15 million on the position in total right now. That will true for at least 2 more years. Who cares about the 3rd string roll of the dice when you in theory are trying to develop a franchise player or at least find if those traits are there at all. I think keeping the room stable is a good idea by the organization.

$0.02

[955876]

Which is odd (that he had no offers) given the 1st round grade we had on him….

Mighty long laundry list of 1st round graded QBs that have done far less than Mason Rudolph in the NFL.

Oh I know. Was joking more than anything.

1st round grade. On the market and begging for a job. Yet no takers.

Then corns crawling back to the Steelers.

We’ve got two veteran QBs as backups that both have starting experience and know the playbook.

I’m good with that. Not going to sweat this.

I already know we aren’t the type of team with our coaches that are going to make a deep playoff run or win a Super Bowl with our back-up like Philly did.

We ain’t them.

[Scunge]

Here is where I am at in terms of wrestling with the idea of whether of not $5 million per year is too much for a backup QB.

Everyone realizes that the lowest player on the team, that 53rd player is making $940,000 a year now, yes? That is the minimum, next year that number will be $1 million. And this for a player that might not ever see the field on offense or defense, may be one of those players that is inactive each and every game throughout the season.

So, for me to have an experienced backup QB, probably top 5 in the NFL, and to pay him $5-7 million a year is worth it. Worth it because QB is the most important position on the field. Worth it because in a 17 game season, your backup may have to start 1 or 2 games, especially with the NFL treating concussions with such conviction and quick to yank your starter at a moment's notice. We all see how sometimes it is that one game that you lost which made the difference of winning the division, or making the playoffs, etc. If your starter is removed and is being tested for a concussion you damn well better have a good backup QB to finish out and win a game, OR, start and win a game.

If Mitch has truly entered Charlie Batch mode, and is willing to mentor Kenny, be his confidante, sounding board, support him as Charlie did with Ben, then $5-6 million per year average is a small price to pay. We STILL have one of the cheapest QB rooms in all of football.

[stillthere]

Here is where I am at in terms of wrestling with the idea of whether of not $5 million per year is too much for a backup QB.

Everyone realizes that the lowest player on the team, that 53rd player is making $940,000 a year now, yes? That is the minimum, next year that number will be $1 million. And this for a player that might not ever see the field on offense or defense, may be one of those players that is inactive each and every game throughout the season.

So, for me to have an experienced backup QB, probably top 5 in the NFL, and to pay him $5-7 million a year is worth it. Worth it because QB is the most important position on the field. Worth it because in a 17 game season, your backup may have to start 1 or 2 games, especially with the NFL treating concussions with such conviction and quick to yank your starter at a moment's notice. We all see how sometimes it is that one game that you lost which made the difference of winning the division, or making the playoffs, etc. If your starter is removed and is being tested for a concussion you damn well better have a good backup QB to finish out and win a game, OR, start and win a game.

If Mitch has truly entered Charlie Batch mode, and is willing to mentor Kenny, be his confidante, sounding board, support him as Charlie did with Ben, then $5-6 million per year average is a small price to pay. We STILL have one of the cheapest QB rooms in all of football.

The league will probably have to have the 3rd QB in uniform after this season. They had the emergency QB rule for a while in the 90's. Since there is an independent set of eyes determining player availability it will hurt a team and the rule will be brought back.

[tbsteel]

Here is where I am at in terms of wrestling with the idea of whether of not $5 million per year is too much for a backup QB.

Everyone realizes that the lowest player on the team, that 53rd player is making $940,000 a year now, yes? That is the minimum, next year that number will be $1 million. And this for a player that might not ever see the field on offense or defense, may be one of those players that is inactive each and every game throughout the season.

So, for me to have an experienced backup QB, probably top 5 in the NFL, and to pay him $5-7 million a year is worth it. Worth it because QB is the most important position on the field. Worth it because in a 17 game season, your backup may have to start 1 or 2 games, especially with the NFL treating concussions with such conviction and quick to yank your starter at a moment's notice. We all see how sometimes it is that one game that you lost which made the difference of winning the division, or making the playoffs, etc. If your starter is removed and is being tested for a concussion you damn well better have a good backup QB to finish out and win a game, OR, start and win a game.

If Mitch has truly entered Charlie Batch mode, and is willing to mentor Kenny, be his confidante, sounding board, support him as Charlie did with Ben, then $5-6 million per year average is a small price to pay. We STILL have one of the cheapest QB rooms in all of football.

Good post. I don't get why this board is losing its collective minds on the difference of a guy taking up like 1.75% of the salary cap compared to around 2.5% dependent on where Mitch is at now, with folks losing their shit before any meaningful #s before they're out. $3.5M a year is fine, but $5.75M a year woah that's insane. Lol. Who gives a shit? Unless you're just looking to be agitated?

Mitch is a solid backup to have. And this will probably save around $3.5M or so on the cap this year, which if unused we can just carry onto next year, and it's probably just essentially a one year extension where he can be cut with minimal harm in 2025. Big whoop.

[jewelsongs]

Suppose the Steelers told Mitch's agent to see if he had any trade value. Many teams in the NFL have terrible starting QBs. With the extension, an interested team would know they have someone at a manageable contract for three years who is a serviceable backup. Any of the teams that drafted QBs this year may be interested in bringing them along slowly. Trade Mitch, Mason is the backup, and develop someone (although I have no idea who that is as all of the names I see are garbage, and we are already developing Kenny). If they can't trade Mitch, then we have a strong QB room. That is how I see it.

[Jobu]

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q ... 3DfQG9yagZ

[Kodiak.]

I don't get why this board is losing its collective minds on the difference of a guy taking up like 1.75% of the salary cap compared to around 2.5% dependent on where Mitch is at now

That logic can justify a lot of irresponsible cap leakage. But a few million here, and another few million there, pretty quickly adds up to a good player that you don't have the money for.

But as others have said, it doesn't really matter because it will take a major miracle for Tomlin to ever sniff another SB.

[Kodiak.]

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q ... 3DfQG9yagZ

Good lord. So, in other words, if Pickett goes down for an extended period of time, Trubisky gets a huge bonus. And that might be OK if he was otherwise making closer to vet min holding a clipboard.

An average of $6.5M is decent for a high-end backup. Not sure Trubisky qualifies. But this doesn't seem like a true backup contract. Seems like more of a "if you beat out Pickett, you're paid accordingly".

I liked several deal Khan did out of the gate but this one doesn't make any sense. And so much for the idea that they were making his contract cheaper to make him more tradeable to a team that loses its starter.

[SteelerDayTrader]

Which is odd (that he had no offers) given the 1st round grade we had on him….

Mighty long laundry list of 1st round graded QBs that have done far less than Mason Rudolph in the NFL.

This is true…

??????????????????????????

[Scunge]

I liked several deal Khan did out of the gate but this one doesn't make any sense. And so much for the idea that they were making his contract cheaper to make him more tradeable to a team that loses its starter.

We don't know the specifics yet but I would not be surprised if Mitch and his agent have a no trade clause, or at least they have to approve of the team being traded to. Like you don't want to do an extension and then find the Steelers have traded you to a team that went 3-14.

It looks to me that they took his $ 8 million base salary turned it into a signing bonus, and then added $11.3 million in new money.

And Kodiak, why wouldn't this contract be favorable for a team desperate for a starting QB? The Steelers are on the hook for the signing bonus, the team that trades for Mitch would only be on the hook for $1.3 million in 2023, $5 million in 2024 and $5 million in 2025.

A team trading for Mitch would only be paying him a 3 year, $11.3 million contract, that is an average of $3.75 million. Now yeah, if he has incentives then the team would have to pay for those, but if he meets those, is playing 75% of the snaps, makes a pro bowl, etc, a team really shouldn't complain about that, right?

Kahn Artist strikes again, this contract keeps Mitch in the fold as a high end backup QB, AND also makes Mitch very attractive to a team looking for a starter if injury strikes because he isn't a one year rental but is under contract for 3 years and if they were to look at him as just a one year rental they only have to pay him $1.3 million for 2023 and then could cut him in the offseason.

Kahn is on a higher level so far, just making brilliant moves left and right. Say a team, a playoff team loses there starting QB after the second preseason game, they have a coach and GM that are on the hot seat, they must win games or be fired after the season. They call Kahn and say hey would you be interested in trading Mitch? Kahn says yeah, under the right compensation, we really like him, we would have to be overwhelmed, like a 2nd round pick. The team may be offput by that at first, but then Kahn says, listen, you only have to pay him $1.3 million for 2023 and he is under contract for 3 years. I can see teams finding that very attractive. Any incentives that he may meet during the season, that bill doesn't come due until the offseason.

Before the Steelers did this extension with Mitch, a team trading for him would have had to pay him an $8 million base salary and then performance incentive on top of that. Honestly, we are watching state-of-the-art GM Kahn Artistry at its finest.

[Ice]

I will guess…3 years, $17M; $7M signing bonus, $13M guaranteed,
$1M salary year 1, $5M year 2, , $4M year 3. Reduces 2023 cap hit by $5M.

But why do we want cap space?

A Highsmith extension or ILB/NCB signing, I would guess.

I don't care for this extension unless it's a big pay cut disguised as an extension. To me, he's not capable of being a plus starter and he's wayyyyy overpaid to be a backup. Extending him frees cap room now but at what cost for the future? Would likely mean they can't cut him nor move him. Why on earth extend a guy no one wants?

Steelers brass read Steelerfury and are actively trying to mess up my general satisfaction with the offseason up to a week ago?

[bradshaw2ben]

We STILL have one of the cheapest QB rooms in all of football.

16th in QB spending in the NFL, so I'd call that more average.

[bradshaw2ben]

@Scunge generally agree with your point... except Mitch Trubisky is a terrible QB. For a good backup vet, I'd be all for the deal. I'd honestly rather have Mason Rudolph and I can't believe I could type that without throwing up, considering the last thing I typed about him was that 'if I had to watch another minute of him playing QB for the Steelers I'd kill myself'.

[Smashmouth21]

I kinda thought I understood the Mason deal as a way to hedge for a season on Kenny’s health/performance and then unload Mitch and let Mason be a cheap, experienced backup to make better use of the rookie QB cap space. Now I really don’t understand bringing Mason back at all. The developmental QBs everyone wanted so badly must have blown some serious donkey…

[Kodiak.]

And Kodiak, why wouldn't this contract be favorable for a team desperate for a starting QB? The Steelers are on the hook for the signing bonus, the team that trades for Mitch would only be on the hook for $1.3 million in 2023, $5 million in 2024 and $5 million in 2025.

How does paying a guy more that no one wants as a starter make him more tradeable?!? You're ignoring the escalators in his contract that could pay him up to $5M more per season, escalators he presumably hits if he starts a certain number of games. In other words, if pressed into significant action, he becomes one of the highest paid backup QB's in the league....and he's not nearly that good.

And is spending millions to get a 4th or 5th, optimistically, for Trubisky really good cap management?

[Kodiak.]

I kinda thought I understood the Mason deal as a way to hedge for a season on Kenny’s health/performance and then unload Mitch and let Mason be a cheap, experienced backup to make better use of the rookie QB cap space. Now I really don’t understand bringing Mason back at all. The developmental QBs everyone wanted so badly must have blown some serious donkey…

Completely fine with the Mason deal. Do not understand Trubisky's deal at all, especially after signing Mason. Trubisky is only marginally better, yet makes 5X what Mason does.

Plus, if Pickett did get hurt for a significant amount of time, Trubisky gets a windfall. Does that make sense? Would anyone else pay Trubisky $11M per year to be their starter? No - he's been a FA twice so this is not an unknown answer.

I know what a few number crunchers here would say "well, they'll just start Rudolph before Trubisky hits the magic number to kick in his escalator". They COULD do that, but they never will. You NEVER bench a guy to keep him from hitting a big incentive.

[Kodiak.]

... except Mitch Trubisky is a terrible QB. For a good backup vet, I'd be all for the deal.

Another consideration - is Trubisky really a wiley, experience QB like Batch? Hasn't one of the knocks on Trubisky always been that he struggles to read a defense? Is that really a good mentor for Pickett?

Bringing back both Mason and Trubisky just seems par for the course - lazy and safe.

[Scunge]

16th in QB spending, that factors in the current 2023 class of rookie QBs??

I can't imagine Mason signed for much more than say $1.25 million?? Mitch with this new extension probably has a cap hit of $6.5 million and Kenny is just under $3.2 million.

Our QB room, all three QBs have a collective cap hit of $11million. That is what, 4.8% of our cap? B2B, you are telling me that is middle of the road in the NFL?? I find that hard to believe.

I look at so many other teams and they are all easily 25, 30, 40 million in cap hits for their QB rooms.

For example, once Will Levis signs his contract, you take him, Malik Willis and Ryan Tannehill and that is approaching $40 million cap hit for the Titans in 2023

The Ravens between Lamar and Huntley they have a cap hit of almost $23 million.

Joe Burrow and the Bengals have a cap hit of nearly $13 million for their QB group right now, but Burrow is about to sign a new deal and that number will most likely balloon up to 25-30 million.

I look and look and think hey the Green Bay Packers must have a low number for what they are paying their QB room right? Maybe $5 million for Love and Clifford? But hey wait a minute there is all of that money they are still eating from the signing bonus they paid to Aaron Rodgers, that is $40 million for 2023? So, even though he is gone, Green Bay still has $45 million being spent for their QBs this year.

Maybe Jax? Nope. Maybe the Raiders? Nope. Jimmy G has a cap hit of almost $24 million. Arizona, nope, they have a QB cap hit over $22 million. Buffalo, nope, KC, nope.

Hey, here is a team with a lower QB cap hit, Chicago at $8.5 million. The Falcons are at $9.5 million for their QBs. Washington is around $10 million. Tampa Bay is at $4.5 million, but they have dead money from Tom Brady that is still on the books, some $35 million, so that $4.5 is a mirage, it is really $40 million.

I am hard pressed to find 15 teams with cheaper QB rooms than the Steelers. Once the rookie QBs sign their contracts, and once the new extensions to Burrow, Herbert, etc happen later this offseason, I see the Steelers being maybe near the top 5 cheapest QB rooms?

[Scunge]

... except Mitch Trubisky is a terrible QB. For a good backup vet, I'd be all for the deal.

Another consideration - is Trubisky really a wiley, experience QB like Batch? Hasn't one of the knocks on Trubisky always been that he struggles to read a defense? Is that really a good mentor for Pickett?

Bringing back both Mason and Trubisky just seems par for the course - lazy and safe.

Well, there are some QBs that just make better backup QBs than starters, that is just a fact. I will speak a couple of names that makes people cringe, Neil O'Donnell and Bubby Brister. Once O'Donnell went to the JETs and flamed out there, he became a backup QB for Tennessee and was one of the best backup QBs in the NFL, in his 5 years with the Titans he had to start 8 games and went 6-2.

Bubby actually was a savior for Denver because he won critical games as the backup QB to Elway. Brister had to start 4 games in 1998 and won all four, in his time with Denver he had a passer rating of 86.5, with the Steelers it was a lowly 69.8.

When Charlie Batch was in Detroit as a starter he had a 19-27 record. He comes to Pittsburgh and starts 9 games as Ben's backup, going 6-3.

In all three of these cases, the QBs played better, had better passer ratings, completion percentage, had higher winning percentages. Some QBs don't handle the starter role well, to be the man, the face of the franchise, etc. But they can come off the bench, do some heroics and save the day when their number is called due to injury. It is like they are playing with house money, they are looser, more comfortable.

If Mitch has had a come to Jesus moment and accepts his role, he can be our new Charlie Batch and still make a whole lot of money.

[SteelerDayTrader]

Trubisky sucks. He folds under the slightest duress

Extending him might be the dumbest move of the nfl off-season

It doesn’t matter what the numbers are. It makes the team worse for a longer period of time and devotes more money to being worse

Rudolph sucks. He folds under the slightest duress

A 1 year deal for a few pennies isn’t great but it’s somewhat understandable

The Steelers remain highly questionable at handling the QB position

[stillthere]

I liked several deal Khan did out of the gate but this one doesn't make any sense. And so much for the idea that they were making his contract cheaper to make him more tradeable to a team that loses its starter.

We don't know the specifics yet but I would not be surprised if Mitch and his agent have a no trade clause, or at least they have to approve of the team being traded to. Like you don't want to do an extension and then find the Steelers have traded you to a team that went 3-14.

It looks to me that they took his $ 8 million base salary turned it into a signing bonus, and then added $11.3 million in new money.

And Kodiak, why wouldn't this contract be favorable for a team desperate for a starting QB? The Steelers are on the hook for the signing bonus, the team that trades for Mitch would only be on the hook for $1.3 million in 2023, $5 million in 2024 and $5 million in 2025.

A team trading for Mitch would only be paying him a 3 year, $11.3 million contract, that is an average of $3.75 million. Now yeah, if he has incentives then the team would have to pay for those, but if he meets those, is playing 75% of the snaps, makes a pro bowl, etc, a team really shouldn't complain about that, right?

Kahn Artist strikes again, this contract keeps Mitch in the fold as a high end backup QB, AND also makes Mitch very attractive to a team looking for a starter if injury strikes because he isn't a one year rental but is under contract for 3 years and if they were to look at him as just a one year rental they only have to pay him $1.3 million for 2023 and then could cut him in the offseason.

Kahn is on a higher level so far, just making brilliant moves left and right. Say a team, a playoff team loses there starting QB after the second preseason game, they have a coach and GM that are on the hot seat, they must win games or be fired after the season. They call Kahn and say hey would you be interested in trading Mitch? Kahn says yeah, under the right compensation, we really like him, we would have to be overwhelmed, like a 2nd round pick. The team may be offput by that at first, but then Kahn says, listen, you only have to pay him $1.3 million for 2023 and he is under contract for 3 years. I can see teams finding that very attractive. Any incentives that he may meet during the season, that bill doesn't come due until the offseason.

Before the Steelers did this extension with Mitch, a team trading for him would have had to pay him an $8 million base salary and then performance incentive on top of that. Honestly, we are watching state-of-the-art GM Kahn Artistry at its finest.

RED: It would be less than 1.3 million if the trade happens after the season starts as well since a chunk of that money gets reduced per game check.

BLUE: getting a high(ish) pick for Mitch also allows you to eat the dead bonus money while spending next to no cash on the player selected with said pick.

[SteelerDayTrader]

Lolololz

Who THE FUCK is trading a DRAFT PICK much less a “highish” one for Mitch Fucking Trubisky ???

Lolololz

Honestly in all seriousness I think it’s possible the main reason the Steelers keep Rudolph and Trubisky is so people don’t start yelling to replace Lenny

Lolololz

You homers are off the rails

Lolololz

[Deebo]

... except Mitch Trubisky is a terrible QB. For a good backup vet, I'd be all for the deal.

Another consideration - is Trubisky really a wiley, experience QB like Batch? Hasn't one of the knocks on Trubisky always been that he struggles to read a defense? Is that really a good mentor for Pickett?

Bringing back both Mason and Trubisky just seems par for the course - lazy and safe.

Well, there are some QBs that just make better backup QBs than starters, that is just a fact. I will speak a couple of names that makes people cringe, Neil O'Donnell and Bubby Brister. Once O'Donnell went to the JETs and flamed out there, he became a backup QB for Tennessee and was one of the best backup QBs in the NFL, in his 5 years with the Titans he had to start 8 games and went 6-2.

Bubby actually was a savior for Denver because he won critical games as the backup QB to Elway. Brister had to start 4 games in 1998 and won all four, in his time with Denver he had a passer rating of 86.5, with the Steelers it was a lowly 69.8.

When Charlie Batch was in Detroit as a starter he had a 19-27 record. He comes to Pittsburgh and starts 9 games as Ben's backup, going 6-3.

In all three of these cases, the QBs played better, had better passer ratings, completion percentage, had higher winning percentages. Some QBs don't handle the starter role well, to be the man, the face of the franchise, etc. But they can come off the bench, do some heroics and save the day when their number is called due to injury. It is like they are playing with house money, they are looser, more comfortable.

If Mitch has had a come to Jesus moment and accepts his role, he can be our new Charlie Batch and still make a whole lot of money.

All fair points, but I don't see the answer to this question: what was the downside to letting Mitch play out his deal and him becoming a FA?

He might have decided to resign and for cheaper dollars next offseason

[Baltostiller]

But why do we want cap space?

Ben’s coming out of retirement!

THIS!!!!!!!!!

[Ice]

I kinda thought I understood the Mason deal as a way to hedge for a season on Kenny’s health/performance and then unload Mitch and let Mason be a cheap, experienced backup to make better use of the rookie QB cap space. Now I really don’t understand bringing Mason back at all. The developmental QBs everyone wanted so badly must have blown some serious donkey…

It's like they've decided it just isn't fair to use Kenny's rookie contract savings at QB to build a roster and generate a window. We SHOULD have a bottom ten, if not bottom five QB room salary.

[stillthere]

We STILL have one of the cheapest QB rooms in all of football.

16th in QB spending in the NFL, so I'd call that more average.

https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/positional/breakdown/

spotrac has at least 20 teams spending more in that room than what the Steelers will be after they update Trubisky's numbers.

Atlanta - I would like Taylor Heineke to hold the same position with Pittsburgh that Trubisky or Rudolph currently hold.
Carolina - Rookie. I would not mind Matt Corral as the 3rd string guy over Mason but I want the team focusing on Kenny's development for now.
Chicago - Elite athlete, can the team surround him with talent?
Green Bay - Love train (nobody has a clue what he can or cannot do as a leader and starter)
Houston - Rookie
Indianapolis - Rookie
LA Chargers - Stud QB, that team seems snake bit always seem to be able to fuck up a win (Very Pittsburgh in that)
New England - Jones is alright same with Zappe but I guess we will have to see if either can make real strides
New York Jets - Renting Aaron for a year or two.
Philadelphia - Stud QB.
Tampa Bay - Baker,meh averages a good game a month.
Washington - I would like Jacoby Brisset to hold the same position as Mitch or Mason on the Steelers roster.

Those are the teams that are spending less at QB than Pittsburgh right now. I am not sure what the #1 & #2 overall picks numbers will add to those totals. Eagles and Chargers are in a good spot Chicago could be in a good spot. The Jets are pushing the chips in at the table and will be back to rebuild in 2 years with a new QB unless they just want to rent out QBs at the end of their career's. The rest of the teams listed I see Pittsburgh as being in a significantly better position than already.