The Fifth Quarter - Texans Game Wrap

[Legacy User]

Maybe I'm bad at math, but a 2 point conversion is worth 2 points and a TD is worth 7. Why save your most effective plays in the redzone for the off chance you might need to run a 2 point conversion at some point in the season?

Who says the secret 2-point conversion is your most effective play?

Maybe its effectiveness is a direct result of its novelty.

[lifelongsteel]

I'm not seeing an attempt at attrition football. To wit:
- Numerous deep ball attempts: at least 6 30+ yard shots (3 to Bryant, 2 to Brown, 1 to Wheaton)
- One of those attempts came during a time when the announcers thought they would have been better off running clock (i actually chuckled to myself that Haley dialed that one up to make Nick happy)
- 2 gadget plays: the flea flicker and the reverse throw

That said, I am seeing some trends specific to the steelers that make it look like they are playing attrition football:
- Offense can't play fast. I don't think this is design. I think it's capability
- Team is risk averse (not going for it on fourth down)

To those who are seeing attrition football, i'm curious what you would point to.

The 2nd half turtle ball mentality...the decision to punt rather than go for it at the Texan 40.

Not sure i saw turtle ball in 2nd half. Hated the 4th and 1 (though was happy they didn't take the timeout like they usually do in that situation). But frankly, i hated the late pass play to Bryant that stopped the clock as well. One was dumbass conservatism. One was dumbass aggressiveness.

What they had in common was that they were dumbass calls made by people who don't understand probabilities and/or math.

So I guess what i'm saying, is that i think dumbass game management is more of a problem than attrition football.

[Stosh-67]

The JJ Watt hit on Ben:
Didn't Worilds get flagged for almost the same type hit on Cam Newton.........
Thats a flag with Brady and Manning at QB

I guess the feel good JJ Watt story / season should not be tarnished.........

[Legacy User]

The JJ Watt hit on Ben:
Didn't Worilds get flagged for almost the same type hit on Cam Newton.........
Thats a flag with Brady and Manning at QB

I guess the feel good JJ Watt story / season should not be tarnished.........

That should have been flagged, in my opinion.

[steelclan]

Again with the oline. Not sure what you're watching at times but I thought Adams royally sucked. Im also sure faulting Beachum for the sack/strip fumble is wrong. 96 rushed Foster got outside leverage away from Foster into Beachum's chest and allowed Mercilus to swing inside to Foster who promptly vacated his spot to try and catch up to the piss poor block he made on 96. How that amounts to Beachum's fault for the sack/strip I have no idea. Please explain.

Go watch the highlight video of the play. Beachum did get beat for one sack on 1 v 1 against the best defender in the NFL. So with a knee jerk on sack/strip that of course that leads to finger pointing when it clearly was not his fault leads to more nonsense concerning a player that is doing his job and doing it well. Beachum was matched up 1 v 1 against Watt on more than just that sack and held his own.

Additionally somehow blaming Decastro for Watt picking up the fumble because he allowed "to much push" please. Decastro kept Watt from Ben for more than 4 seconds aka a win for an olinemen, especially an interior player v the best pass rusher in the league and in recent memory.

Now to Mike Adams…false start yeh that wasnt the end of his struggles. It was Mike Adams that was getting help on the outside not Beachum. It was Mike Adams that couldnt run block a fart in the wind. I dont get the love affair with this guy he was ok at times but for most of his PT he struggled. Marcus Gilbert cant get healthy quick enough.

[Stosh-67]

Not sure i saw turtle ball in 2nd half. Hated the 4th and 1 (though was happy they didn't take the timeout like they usually do in that situation). But frankly, i hated the late pass play to Bryant that stopped the clock as well. One was dumbass conservatism. One was dumbass aggressiveness.

What they had in common was that they were dumbass calls made by people who don't understand probabilities and/or math.

So I guess what i'm saying, is that i think dumbass game management is more of a problem than attrition football.

Not going for it in that spot is certainly playing not to lose.............no question at all.
On the other hand.............i totally expected the dumb time out after realizing they were not going for it.........
If they are not gonna go for it....and just try and get them to jump......why not go all out with the hard, hard counts, audibles, motion, etc...until anyone move...either side....its still a 5 yard penalty.

Anyway. Playing not to lose like in that spot...............is exactly what is talked about whne peeps say, playing soft.

[lifelongsteel]

The JJ Watt hit on Ben:
Didn't Worilds get flagged for almost the same type hit on Cam Newton.........
Thats a flag with Brady and Manning at QB

I guess the feel good JJ Watt story / season should not be tarnished.........

That should have been flagged, in my opinion.

Agreed. I think Ben had a few words for him.

I did note that Watt was late a lot last night. I guess since he's "such a great guy" with "such a high motor" who likes to "play to the whistle" the refs overlook all his late hits.

[Legacy User]

The JJ Watt hit on Ben:
Didn't Worilds get flagged for almost the same type hit on Cam Newton.........
Thats a flag with Brady and Manning at QB

I guess the feel good JJ Watt story / season should not be tarnished.........

That should have been flagged, in my opinion.

Agreed. I think Ben had a few words for him.

I did note that Watt was late a lot last night. I guess since he's "such a great guy" with "such a high motor" who likes to "play to the whistle" the refs overlook all his late hits.

He's motoring extra high this year since Clowney has a low motor.

[steelclan]

Yep a player not named Watt wouldve had a couple of PFs. The call that really bugged me was the DPI on Allen. Johnson was clearly handfighting just as much as Allen. Had Allen done nothing Johnson gets easy separation using his physicality. That to me was a weak, weak call.

[Legacy User]

I'm not seeing an attempt at attrition football. To wit:
- Numerous deep ball attempts: at least 6 30+ yard shots (3 to Bryant, 2 to Brown, 1 to Wheaton)
- One of those attempts came during a time when the announcers thought they would have been better off running clock (i actually chuckled to myself that Haley dialed that one up to make Nick happy)
- 2 gadget plays: the flea flicker and the reverse throw

That said, I am seeing some trends specific to the steelers that make it look like they are playing attrition football:
- Offense can't play fast. I don't think this is design. I think it's capability
- Team is risk averse (not going for it on fourth down)

To those who are seeing attrition football, i'm curious what you would point to.

The 2nd half turtle ball mentality...the decision to punt rather than go for it at the Texan 40.

Not sure i saw turtle ball in 2nd half. Hated the 4th and 1 (though was happy they didn't take the timeout like they usually do in that situation). But frankly, i hated the late pass play to Bryant that stopped the clock as well. One was dumbass conservatism. One was dumbass aggressiveness.

What they had in common was that they were dumbass calls made by people who don't understand probabilities and/or math.

So I guess what i'm saying, is that i think dumbass game management is more of a problem than attrition football.

Definitley agree on that.

[Nick79]

Not sure i saw turtle ball in 2nd half. Hated the 4th and 1 (though was happy they didn't take the timeout like they usually do in that situation). But frankly, i hated the late pass play to Bryant that stopped the clock as well. One was dumbass conservatism. One was dumbass aggressiveness.

What they had in common was that they were dumbass calls made by people who don't understand probabilities and/or math.

So I guess what i'm saying, is that i think dumbass game management is more of a problem than attrition football.

I liked it! It was fun to see the stupid, high risk, low probabilty play for a change, the let's win in one play risk. They always do the dumbass conservatism, it was refreshing to see stupid aggression from them for once.

You don't always have to do whatever probability dictates, sometimes you say fuck it and take a shot.

[Steelafan77]

Just don't get used to Nick.

[Nick79]

Just don't get used to Nick.

I won't! Maybe Bryant will miss an audible or "not practice well" and he'll be deactivated for the next 6 games anyways!

[lifelongsteel]

Not sure i saw turtle ball in 2nd half. Hated the 4th and 1 (though was happy they didn't take the timeout like they usually do in that situation). But frankly, i hated the late pass play to Bryant that stopped the clock as well. One was dumbass conservatism. One was dumbass aggressiveness.

What they had in common was that they were dumbass calls made by people who don't understand probabilities and/or math.

So I guess what i'm saying, is that i think dumbass game management is more of a problem than attrition football.

I liked it! It was fun to see the stupid, high risk, low probabilty play for a change, the let's win in one play risk. They always do the dumbass conservatism, it was refreshing to see stupid aggression from them for once.

I see your point. Definitely thought of you when it happened.

[Stosh-67]

Just don't get used to Nick.

I won't! Maybe Bryant will miss an audible or "not practice well" and he'll be deactivated for the next 6 games anyways!

Didn't Derreck Moye finally get a hat....catch a TD and not get a helmet the next week?

[Legacy User]

Absolutey agreed on the gadget play....from the 4, no less. Now...after the Kiesel pick, they did a much better job with the pair of play calls from the 8 and managing the clock.


Good writeup, Perch....per usual.

If you listened to Ben's radio show he said two interesting things about the play.

#1. Tomlin told Haley to run that play.
#2. That was their top double secret 2 point conversion play they've been hiding.

If #2 is accurate, the play was 3 times as effective as they had planned for it to be.

That makes it an eleven.

[Legacy User]

Nice write up...

I don't agree on the 4 and 1... IMO Steelers made the correct choice.

This so called attrition football did a fine job last night along with aggressive down field shots. What made this game close was the cheap TD we gave up playing prevent defense.

I was presently surprised that ben had the time on some of those deep plays.

You can tell who the crowd is that will always complain about the offense regardless of the outcome of the game. Thought it was a nice mix of run and pass plus the use of Bell as a receiver was awesome. You will never please a few.

I still hate Tomlin

[Legacy User]

Just don't get used to Nick.

I won't! Maybe Bryant will miss an audible or "not practice well" and he'll be deactivated for the next 6 games anyways!

Didn't Derreck Moye finally get a hat....catch a TD and not get a helmet the next week?

I'm going to suggest that Bryant > Moye.

[Nick79]

Nice write up...

I don't agree on the 4 and 1... IMO Steelers made the correct choice.

This so called attrition football did a fine job last night along with aggressive down field shots. What made this game close was the cheap TD we gave up playing prevent defense.
I was presently surprised that ben had the time on some of those deep plays.

You can tell who the crowd is that will always complain about the offense regardless of the outcome of the game. Thought it was a nice mix of run and pass plus the use of Bell as a receiver was awesome. You will never please a few.

I still hate Tomlin

Attrition football is what keeps it TOO close, you want bigger leads if you can get them so you can give up a TD or two with the poor D an still be comfortable. Personally, I assume the D will fail and I don't want to put my trust in them, I want to score more often and faster if possible. On O, no clock chewing, just act like you are behind multiple scores for 60 minutes and need TDs fast.

[Legacy User]

Nice write up...

I don't agree on the 4 and 1... IMO Steelers made the correct choice.

This so called attrition football did a fine job last night along with aggressive down field shots. What made this game close was the cheap TD we gave up playing prevent defense.
I was presently surprised that ben had the time on some of those deep plays.

You can tell who the crowd is that will always complain about the offense regardless of the outcome of the game. Thought it was a nice mix of run and pass plus the use of Bell as a receiver was awesome. You will never please a few.

I still hate Tomlin

Attrition football is what keeps it TOO close, you want bigger leads if you can get them so you can give up a TD or two with the poor D an still be comfortable. Personally, I assume the D will fail and I don't want to put my trust in them, I want to score more often and faster if possible. On O, no clock chewing, just act like you are behind multiple scores for 60 minutes and need TDs fast.

I did not realize that acting like you are behind and throwing the ball deep every play guaranteed a score... IMO I did not see attrition football I saw a balanced offense that wanted to score on every possession but crazy thing here there was another team out on the field playing defense. This is my point you will never be happy unless you see something specific regardless of the outcome of the game.

[955876]

Great work as usual Perch...

You don't go for it on 4th & inches but toss it deep when burning clock actually made sense.

The bizarro world of Tomlin.

Someone please tell this guy to pull a Costanza and do the freaking opposite of whatever he's thinking of doing.

[Legacy User]

Great work as usual Perch...

You don't go for it on 4th & inches but toss it deep when burning clock actually made sense.

The bizarro world of Tomlin.

Someone please tell this guy to pull a Costanza and do the freaking opposite of whatever he's thinking of doing.

I'm convinced Tomlin has zero football common sense. His in-game decisions (ones that are highlighted cause they are so pivotal) and lack of clock mgmt skills are readily apparent. It's a broken record.

[Legacy User]

Great work as usual Perch...

You don't go for it on 4th & inches but toss it deep when burning clock actually made sense.

The bizarro world of Tomlin.

Someone please tell this guy to pull a Costanza and do the freaking opposite of whatever he's thinking of doing.

I'm convinced Tomlin has zero football common sense. His in-game decisions (ones that are highlighted cause they are so pivotal) and lack of clock mgmt skills are readily apparent. It's a broken record.

He didn't get his nickname just because. He earned it. He is what he puts on tape, in the stadium, if you will, obviously.

[Legacy User]

Great work as usual Perch...

You don't go for it on 4th & inches but toss it deep when burning clock actually made sense.

The bizarro world of Tomlin.

Someone please tell this guy to pull a Costanza and do the freaking opposite of whatever he's thinking of doing.

I'm convinced Tomlin has zero football common sense. His in-game decisions (ones that are highlighted cause they are so pivotal) and lack of clock mgmt skills are readily apparent. It's a broken record.

He didn't get his nickname just because. He earned it. He is what he puts on tape, in the stadium, if you will, obviously.

Tomlin is who I thought he was.....

Kudos to Dennis Green.

[Baltostiller]

Great work as usual Perch...

You don't go for it on 4th & inches but toss it deep when burning clock actually made sense.

The bizarro world of Tomlin.

Someone please tell this guy to pull a Costanza and do the freaking opposite of whatever he's thinking of doing.

Didn't the announcers say that Pouncey was hurt/dinged and was limping to the line on the 4th and 1 play. Maybe that's one of the reasons that they didn't want to run a QB sneak.

[franco32]

I agree with Steelclan. I did not see good play from Adams. He was his usual self...dumb and off balance. However, we frequently kept a TE to help him out. This is not the definition of good play. When your RT sucks so bad that you have to remove a potential receiver from a pattern to help his sorry ass, that is a BIG problem. It's also why Ben wasn't able to find guys open very quickly very often.

[Legacy User]

SP, as always, great work.

I would have divided the RB grade though and given Bell an A+ individually, with the B overall ok.

[Stosh-67]

Tuff spot for Adams to come into.
I do not think he did bad.
He came in and had to deal with the most explosive defensive player in the league.

Ever go to the batting cages......after not swinging the bat for awhile. Alot of swinging and missing at how fast those first few pitches will seem. Then your tipping balls before making contact.
Before adjusting to the speed of the pitches......He settled in.

Do not recall exactly when Adams came in............but JJ Watt did his most damage in the first quarter / half.
Think he only finished with 2 tackles, sack and fumble recovery......no passes batted down?......I say only, since it was Watt.

Yes, Ben audibled TE's over for help on his side to help out.............but that was one the things that i wanted to see in not leaving our tackles on an island with Watt.
Maybe we saw more double TE in the second half with Spaeth.....
maybe that was some of the reason we did not score much in the second half.

wheter or nor Gilbert is ready on Sunday......
i would hope Adams can see the field more often....even if its as another tackle in short yardage spots.
Keep his feet wet. Keep his mind ready.

[Jobu]

Tuff spot for Adams to come into.
I do not think he did bad.
He came in and had to deal with the most explosive defensive player in the league.

Ever go to the batting cages......after not swinging the bat for awhile. Alot of swinging and missing at how fast those first few pitches will seem. Then your tipping balls before making contact.
Before adjusting to the speed of the pitches......He settled in.

Do not recall exactly when Adams came in............but JJ Watt did his most damage in the first quarter / half.
Think he only finished with 2 tackles, sack and fumble recovery......no passes batted down?......I say only, since it was Watt.

Yes, Ben audibled TE's over for help on his side to help out.............but that was one the things that i wanted to see in not leaving our tackles on an island with Watt.
Maybe we saw more double TE in the second half with Spaeth.....
maybe that was some of the reason we did not score much in the second half.

wheter or nor Gilbert is ready on Sunday......
i would hope Adams can see the field more often....even if its as another tackle in short yardage spots.
Keep his feet wet. Keep his mind ready.

Good assessment Stosh. Was it just coincidence that when Adams came in to the game, JJ Watt disappeared? I re-watched this morning, focusing on line play, and whole Adams wasn't perfect, he held his own. And yes they ran the double TE to his side several times, but used it on the left side also. Anyone with two eyes ould see that it was Beachum that needed the help more than Adams. It's only a matter of time before 7 will not be able to step up and away from the pass rusher of he day, that just bitch slapped Beachum, and get creamed. He's fucking gawd awful, and doesn't belong on an NFL roster, let alone starting.
As for Adams, he's had bad games in the past...last night wasn't one of them!

[tbsteel]

Again with the oline. Not sure what you're watching at times but I thought Adams royally sucked. Im also sure faulting Beachum for the sack/strip fumble is wrong. 96 rushed Foster got outside leverage away from Foster into Beachum's chest and allowed Mercilus to swing inside to Foster who promptly vacated his spot to try and catch up to the piss poor block he made on 96. How that amounts to Beachum's fault for the sack/strip I have no idea. Please explain.

Go watch the highlight video of the play. Beachum did get beat for one sack on 1 v 1 against the best defender in the NFL. So with a knee jerk on sack/strip that of course that leads to finger pointing when it clearly was not his fault leads to more nonsense concerning a player that is doing his job and doing it well. Beachum was matched up 1 v 1 against Watt on more than just that sack and held his own.

Additionally somehow blaming Decastro for Watt picking up the fumble because he allowed "to much push" please. Decastro kept Watt from Ben for more than 4 seconds aka a win for an olinemen, especially an interior player v the best pass rusher in the league and in recent memory.

Now to Mike Adams…false start yeh that wasnt the end of his struggles. It was Mike Adams that was getting help on the outside not Beachum. It was Mike Adams that couldnt run block a fart in the wind. I dont get the love affair with this guy he was ok at times but for most of his PT he struggled. Marcus Gilbert cant get healthy quick enough.

Yeah, lots of good stuff here.