OT - MNF SF @ MIN

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franco32
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Re: OT - MNF SF @ MIN

Post by franco32 » Tue Oct 24, 2023 3:29 am

CKSteeler wrote:
Tue Oct 24, 2023 3:27 am
franco32 wrote:
Tue Oct 24, 2023 3:23 am
No one is discounting Purdy but the MVP talk a couple weeks ago was silly. It's a lot harder to play QB in this league without Trent Williams and Deebo Samuel.
Throwing to guys like Ray Ray McCloud is tougher.

People are in fact discounting Purdy when they talk about what he is with confidence. If a guy like Trevor Lawrence had the start to his career that Purdy has had, everything the exact same, they'd be sizing him up for a gold jacket for real.
There is some truth to that. But, they also partially discount him because he's surrounded by All Pros everywhere, has a killer Oline, and a genius play caller too. Plus a defense loaded with studs that usually has his back. It's a good situation to be in.



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Post by jmacinwbp » Tue Oct 24, 2023 3:42 am

Purdy looked pretty sharp for three quarters, and had me about to post I was being waaay to negative about how he influenced the niners wins, but then he had some serious shrinkage going on in the 4th, almost like the anti matter universe version of KP8 in those aspects.

There are two things you can say are factual at this point when comparing purdy to KP8.

One plays like he is in a real elite NFL offense in just about any game when the players on O are attempting to execute their OCs gameplan, and he and his receivers are able to stay on time; but things fall apart when his team needs him to step up, and win when it counts, during those parts of the game when the throwing windows get much smaller, and the gameplan/script ain't going to cut it.

The other mostly plays like he's in a high school JV offense when the players on O attempt to execute their OCs gameplan, but when it's time to measure your nutsack, and everthing in the game is on the line, during those parts of the game where the windows to throw shrink, he has yet to show any shrinkage in his manhood, and wins the damn game.

It's soo early in both of their careers, that in another season and a half the trends for both of these guys could flip. From watching a lot of games over many years, I personally think it's usually easier to get an OC who can provide an NFL caliber game plan for his personnel on O to try to execute, vs. learning how not to have shrinkage when things are all on the line, and it's all on the Qb.

Cousins had a great game, there were none of his classic wtf/gag moments that has my friends/family who are Vikings fans, about to give up on him.
Last edited by jmacinwbp on Tue Oct 24, 2023 4:13 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Post by RemoAZ » Tue Oct 24, 2023 3:47 am

I don't think it's wrong to point out that Purdy is in a great situation with a great coach putting him in position to be successful. However, that doesn't mean it's easy or automatic for him to play well. The kid has stepped up and made the most of that situation. He's in a system that plays to his strengths and he's taking advantage of it. Shanahan realized he needed a guy that could run his offense and ditched the #1 pick they paid a heavy price to move up for. Good coaching, roster moves and player development. Must be nice. That being said, he's not going to win every game. I'd love to see Pickett with an OC like Shanahan so we could see what he can do in the first 3 and a half quarters of games.
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Post by CKSteeler » Tue Oct 24, 2023 3:50 am

RemoAZ wrote:
Tue Oct 24, 2023 3:47 am
I don't think it's wrong to point out that Purdy is in a great situation with a great coach putting him in position to be successful. However, that doesn't mean it's easy or automatic for him to play well. The kid has stepped up and made the most of that situation. He's in a system that plays to his strengths and he's taking advantage of it. Shanahan realized he needed a guy that could run his offense and ditched the #1 pick they paid a heavy price to move up for. Good coaching, roster moves and player development. Must be nice. That being said, he's not going to win every game. I'd love to see Pickett with an OC like Shanahan so we could see what he can do in the first 3 and a half quarters of games.
One thing the Purdy doubters discount or don't consider at all - the offensive genius Shanahan completely hitched his wagon to Purdy.

I haven't seen the guy in enough clutch moments to make any determination of what he will be because the 49ers have been that dominant with him under center that he's rarely had to. But he has come up short the last two weeks.

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Post by stillthere » Tue Oct 24, 2023 3:50 am

CKSteeler wrote:
Tue Oct 24, 2023 3:27 am
franco32 wrote:
Tue Oct 24, 2023 3:23 am
No one is discounting Purdy but the MVP talk a couple weeks ago was silly. It's a lot harder to play QB in this league without Trent Williams and Deebo Samuel.
Throwing to guys like Ray Ray McCloud is tougher.

People are in fact discounting Purdy when they talk about what he is with confidence. If a guy like Trevor Lawrence had the start to his career that Purdy has had, everything the exact same, they'd be sizing him up for a gold jacket for real.
Fairly fair but if Trevor Lawrence was on the SF 49ers the last 2+ years that is a completely different dynamic. He was the savior of Jax. SF just got lucky that Mr. Irrelevant balanced out the draft capital that they gave up for Lance. If Lance flamed out and they didn't have a good cheap QB right now they would be fucked. Also DCs are now going to have more film to study and tendencies to break down.

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Post by RemoAZ » Tue Oct 24, 2023 3:55 am

stillthere wrote:
Tue Oct 24, 2023 3:50 am
CKSteeler wrote:
Tue Oct 24, 2023 3:27 am
franco32 wrote:
Tue Oct 24, 2023 3:23 am
No one is discounting Purdy but the MVP talk a couple weeks ago was silly. It's a lot harder to play QB in this league without Trent Williams and Deebo Samuel.
Throwing to guys like Ray Ray McCloud is tougher.

People are in fact discounting Purdy when they talk about what he is with confidence. If a guy like Trevor Lawrence had the start to his career that Purdy has had, everything the exact same, they'd be sizing him up for a gold jacket for real.
Fairly fair but if Trevor Lawrence was on the SF 49ers the last 2+ years that is a completely different dynamic. He was the savior of Jax. SF just got lucky that Mr. Irrelevant balanced out the draft capital that they gave up for Lance. If Lance flamed out and they didn't have a good cheap QB right now they would be fucked. Also DCs are now going to have more film to study and tendencies to break down.
I wonder if they resign Garoppolo if Purdy isn't there or do they stay with the square peg in the round hole?
Howard Griffith had to resort to chop-blocking him during the 1997 AFC Championship Game. An incredulous Kirkland asked Griffith, “Why do you have to use cheap tactics like chop-blocking?” Griffith replied “Why do you have to be a 300-pound linebacker?”

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Post by stillthere » Tue Oct 24, 2023 3:58 am

RemoAZ wrote:
Tue Oct 24, 2023 3:55 am
stillthere wrote:
Tue Oct 24, 2023 3:50 am
CKSteeler wrote:
Tue Oct 24, 2023 3:27 am


Throwing to guys like Ray Ray McCloud is tougher.

People are in fact discounting Purdy when they talk about what he is with confidence. If a guy like Trevor Lawrence had the start to his career that Purdy has had, everything the exact same, they'd be sizing him up for a gold jacket for real.
Fairly fair but if Trevor Lawrence was on the SF 49ers the last 2+ years that is a completely different dynamic. He was the savior of Jax. SF just got lucky that Mr. Irrelevant balanced out the draft capital that they gave up for Lance. If Lance flamed out and they didn't have a good cheap QB right now they would be fucked. Also DCs are now going to have more film to study and tendencies to break down.
I wonder if they resign Garoppolo if Purdy isn't there or do they stay with the square peg in the round hole?
I think Jimmy G would be gone still and they would take another Kirk Cousins type player that runs that system well. Just like when they were in DC.

They drafted RG3 and Cousins in the same year one was a top pick and the other a 4th rounder. Turned out the 4th rounder was better just like Mr. Irrelevant.

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Post by K_C_ » Tue Oct 24, 2023 10:12 am

Lil’ Brock is Jimmy G and Jimmy G is Lil’ Brock.

😝 😂

Been quite a weekend for some folks around here.
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Post by Texas Black & Gold » Tue Oct 24, 2023 10:28 am

tbsteel wrote:
Tue Oct 24, 2023 3:14 am
Purdy with two u-g-l-y picks to end it.

When the script is used up and it comes down to making the plays at the end of the game, he's got a ways to go.
Maybe he can get some tips from KP8. :D
Secure NHALS early and then go deep into the PLAYOFFS. :D :D :D

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Post by bradshaw2ben » Tue Oct 24, 2023 10:37 am

tbsteel wrote:
Tue Oct 24, 2023 3:14 am
Purdy with two u-g-l-y picks to end it.

When the script is used up and it comes down to making the plays at the end of the game, he's got a ways to go.
I mean, the last one... they have barely enough clock to work with, and he's trying to get it way downfield (hell they sent everybody 25 yards downfield)... he doesn't have the arm for that.

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Post by Professor Half Wit » Tue Oct 24, 2023 10:51 am

bradshaw2ben wrote:
Tue Oct 24, 2023 10:37 am
tbsteel wrote:
Tue Oct 24, 2023 3:14 am
Purdy with two u-g-l-y picks to end it.

When the script is used up and it comes down to making the plays at the end of the game, he's got a ways to go.
I mean, the last one... they have barely enough clock to work with, and he's trying to get it way downfield (hell they sent everybody 25 yards downfield)... he doesn't have the arm for that.
So lacks elite physical tools?
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Post by Stillchest » Tue Oct 24, 2023 12:17 pm

Professor Half Wit wrote:
Tue Oct 24, 2023 10:51 am
bradshaw2ben wrote:
Tue Oct 24, 2023 10:37 am
tbsteel wrote:
Tue Oct 24, 2023 3:14 am
Purdy with two u-g-l-y picks to end it.

When the script is used up and it comes down to making the plays at the end of the game, he's got a ways to go.
I mean, the last one... they have barely enough clock to work with, and he's trying to get it way downfield (hell they sent everybody 25 yards downfield)... he doesn't have the arm for that.
So lacks elite physical tools?
😆😂

Studly, Justin Herbert would’ve made that throw.

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Post by bradshaw2ben » Tue Oct 24, 2023 12:42 pm

Stillchest wrote:
Tue Oct 24, 2023 12:17 pm
Professor Half Wit wrote:
Tue Oct 24, 2023 10:51 am
bradshaw2ben wrote:
Tue Oct 24, 2023 10:37 am


I mean, the last one... they have barely enough clock to work with, and he's trying to get it way downfield (hell they sent everybody 25 yards downfield)... he doesn't have the arm for that.
So lacks elite physical tools?
😆😂

Studly, Justin Herbert would’ve made that throw.
Oh, most definitely. He's winning with elite processing. I think if you've watched Purdy play, his lack of elite physical tools is obvious.

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Post by LakecrestSteeler » Tue Oct 24, 2023 2:24 pm

jmacinwbp wrote:
Tue Oct 24, 2023 3:42 am
Purdy looked pretty sharp for three quarters, and had me about to post I was being waaay to negative about how he influenced the niners wins, but then he had some serious shrinkage going on in the 4th, almost like the anti matter universe version of KP8 in those aspects.

There are two things you can say are factual at this point when comparing purdy to KP8.

One plays like he is in a real elite NFL offense in just about any game when the players on O are attempting to execute their OCs gameplan, and he and his receivers are able to stay on time; but things fall apart when his team needs him to step up, and win when it counts, during those parts of the game when the throwing windows get much smaller, and the gameplan/script ain't going to cut it.

The other mostly plays like he's in a high school JV offense when the players on O attempt to execute their OCs gameplan, but when it's time to measure your nutsack, and everthing in the game is on the line, during those parts of the game where the windows to throw shrink, he has yet to show any shrinkage in his manhood, and wins the damn game.

It's soo early in both of their careers, that in another season and a half the trends for both of these guys could flip. From watching a lot of games over many years, I personally think it's usually easier to get an OC who can provide an NFL caliber game plan for his personnel on O to try to execute, vs. learning how not to have shrinkage when things are all on the line, and it's all on the Qb.

Cousins had a great game, there were none of his classic wtf/gag moments that has my friends/family who are Vikings fans, about to give up on him.
To be fair to Purdy...he has only lost 3 games, one was major injury in which he played the whole game, one of them his FG kicker let him down. One sparrow does not make it spring....but a couple more, and he could soon be in a free fall of confidence.

He has only had one bad game and that was last night; he was pressing without Deebo.

But I do like the analogy above.

Another interesting note from last night was that Brock Purdy's QB coach in high school was the same QB coach Troy Aikman and Neil O'Donnell had in college, Steve Axman.

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Post by Jobu » Tue Oct 24, 2023 2:53 pm

He has only had one bad game and that was last night; he was pressing without Deebo.
I thought he played pretty good last night until the picks happened. Last week against the Stains, he was stinkeroo!
NHALS = NFL purgatory

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Post by Orangesteel » Tue Oct 24, 2023 3:13 pm

Purdy was largely very good last night. They had issues getting the play calls in so had to burn a dumb timeout (a la Tomlin) early in the second half which naturally reared its ugly head on that last drive.

Considering some of the quarterbacking we’ve seen this season in the NFL Purdy looks like a top-tier QB. Even Herbert has looked like complete ass this season.

There are some awesome NFL defenses right now, including the Steelers (at times).
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Post by bradshaw2ben » Tue Oct 24, 2023 4:00 pm

CKSteeler wrote:
Tue Oct 24, 2023 3:50 am
RemoAZ wrote:
Tue Oct 24, 2023 3:47 am
I don't think it's wrong to point out that Purdy is in a great situation with a great coach putting him in position to be successful. However, that doesn't mean it's easy or automatic for him to play well. The kid has stepped up and made the most of that situation. He's in a system that plays to his strengths and he's taking advantage of it. Shanahan realized he needed a guy that could run his offense and ditched the #1 pick they paid a heavy price to move up for. Good coaching, roster moves and player development. Must be nice. That being said, he's not going to win every game. I'd love to see Pickett with an OC like Shanahan so we could see what he can do in the first 3 and a half quarters of games.
One thing the Purdy doubters discount or don't consider at all - the offensive genius Shanahan completely hitched his wagon to Purdy.

I haven't seen the guy in enough clutch moments to make any determination of what he will be because the 49ers have been that dominant with him under center that he's rarely had to. But he has come up short the last two weeks.
He did drive them to the FG last week. Rookie K missed it.

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Post by SteelerDayTrader » Tue Oct 24, 2023 5:03 pm

The ONLY reason anyone cares about Purdy here is because Perch absolutely put a flamethrower to the Kenny Pickett Glory Hole Volunteers Association here

Lolololz
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Post by Professor Half Wit » Tue Oct 24, 2023 5:47 pm

SteelerDayTrader wrote:
Tue Oct 24, 2023 5:03 pm
The ONLY reason anyone cares about Purdy here is because Perch absolutely put a flamethrower to the Kenny Pickett Glory Hole Volunteers Association here

Lolololz
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Post by Stillchest » Tue Oct 24, 2023 6:27 pm

bradshaw2ben wrote:
Tue Oct 24, 2023 4:00 pm
CKSteeler wrote:
Tue Oct 24, 2023 3:50 am
RemoAZ wrote:
Tue Oct 24, 2023 3:47 am
I don't think it's wrong to point out that Purdy is in a great situation with a great coach putting him in position to be successful. However, that doesn't mean it's easy or automatic for him to play well. The kid has stepped up and made the most of that situation. He's in a system that plays to his strengths and he's taking advantage of it. Shanahan realized he needed a guy that could run his offense and ditched the #1 pick they paid a heavy price to move up for. Good coaching, roster moves and player development. Must be nice. That being said, he's not going to win every game. I'd love to see Pickett with an OC like Shanahan so we could see what he can do in the first 3 and a half quarters of games.
One thing the Purdy doubters discount or don't consider at all - the offensive genius Shanahan completely hitched his wagon to Purdy.

I haven't seen the guy in enough clutch moments to make any determination of what he will be because the 49ers have been that dominant with him under center that he's rarely had to. But he has come up short the last two weeks.
He did drive them to the FG last week. Rookie K missed it.
Purdy played like shit in that game and he came up small last night.

Crazy how people accept excuses for Purdy but won’t for Kenny.

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Post by bradshaw2ben » Tue Oct 24, 2023 6:43 pm

Stillchest wrote:
Tue Oct 24, 2023 6:27 pm
bradshaw2ben wrote:
Tue Oct 24, 2023 4:00 pm
CKSteeler wrote:
Tue Oct 24, 2023 3:50 am


One thing the Purdy doubters discount or don't consider at all - the offensive genius Shanahan completely hitched his wagon to Purdy.

I haven't seen the guy in enough clutch moments to make any determination of what he will be because the 49ers have been that dominant with him under center that he's rarely had to. But he has come up short the last two weeks.
He did drive them to the FG last week. Rookie K missed it.
Purdy played like shit in that game and he came up small last night.

Crazy how people accept excuses for Purdy but won’t for Kenny.
I wasn't putting out excuses. I merely stated a fact: last week despite not playing well, he helped drive them into position for the FG. Last night he tried to make a play to give them a chance and failed.

P.S.: The very best to ever do it failed like 45% of the time in late game situations

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Post by LakecrestSteeler » Tue Oct 24, 2023 10:17 pm

Professor Half Wit wrote:
Tue Oct 24, 2023 5:47 pm
SteelerDayTrader wrote:
Tue Oct 24, 2023 5:03 pm
The ONLY reason anyone cares about Purdy here is because Perch absolutely put a flamethrower to the Kenny Pickett Glory Hole Volunteers Association here

Lolololz
Image
Don’t you think people would feel the sand paper tongue on the other side of the wall if this was the case?

Surprised with the old sand paper tongue that the feline community didn’t develop into premier banana eaters…with the consistency of banana, one lick probably would net an ounce or so for most felines. A bengal tiger it would be one lick.

Food for thought!

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Post by jmacinwbp » Tue Oct 24, 2023 11:00 pm

bradshaw2ben wrote:
Tue Oct 24, 2023 6:43 pm
Stillchest wrote:
Tue Oct 24, 2023 6:27 pm
bradshaw2ben wrote:
Tue Oct 24, 2023 4:00 pm

He did drive them to the FG last week. Rookie K missed it.
Purdy played like shit in that game and he came up small last night.

Crazy how people accept excuses for Purdy but won’t for Kenny.
I wasn't putting out excuses. I merely stated a fact: last week despite not playing well, he helped drive them into position for the FG. Last night he tried to make a play to give them a chance and failed.

P.S.: The very best to ever do it failed like 45% of the time in late game situations
Didn't look like an excuse to me either, but you gotta think that if KP8 was in the same position, very late in the fourth, with a shaky rookie kicker, he would have found some way to get past the goal line and forgo the jittery kickers FG attempt. Maybe not say as much, but bet some would be thinking it.

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Post by Ice » Tue Oct 24, 2023 11:01 pm

Nice to know we'll be having this discussion for the next few years.
Nothing left to do but smile, smile, smile...

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Post by Orangesteel » Wed Oct 25, 2023 1:22 am

Stillchest wrote:
Tue Oct 24, 2023 6:27 pm
bradshaw2ben wrote:
Tue Oct 24, 2023 4:00 pm
CKSteeler wrote:
Tue Oct 24, 2023 3:50 am


One thing the Purdy doubters discount or don't consider at all - the offensive genius Shanahan completely hitched his wagon to Purdy.

I haven't seen the guy in enough clutch moments to make any determination of what he will be because the 49ers have been that dominant with him under center that he's rarely had to. But he has come up short the last two weeks.
He did drive them to the FG last week. Rookie K missed it.
Purdy played like shit in that game and he came up small last night.

Crazy how people accept excuses for Purdy but won’t for Kenny.
Yeah cuz’ Big Ben never played like a dickbag for 58 minutes and pulled something out of his ass at the end or anything…
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Post by SteelerDayTrader » Wed Oct 25, 2023 2:08 am

Ice wrote:
Tue Oct 24, 2023 11:01 pm
Nice to know we'll be having this discussion for the next few years.
Lolololz
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Post by bradshaw2ben » Wed Oct 25, 2023 2:48 pm

jmacinwbp wrote:
Tue Oct 24, 2023 11:00 pm
bradshaw2ben wrote:
Tue Oct 24, 2023 6:43 pm
Stillchest wrote:
Tue Oct 24, 2023 6:27 pm


Purdy played like shit in that game and he came up small last night.

Crazy how people accept excuses for Purdy but won’t for Kenny.
I wasn't putting out excuses. I merely stated a fact: last week despite not playing well, he helped drive them into position for the FG. Last night he tried to make a play to give them a chance and failed.

P.S.: The very best to ever do it failed like 45% of the time in late game situations
Didn't look like an excuse to me either, but you gotta think that if KP8 was in the same position, very late in the fourth, with a shaky rookie kicker, he would have found some way to get past the goal line and forgo the jittery kickers FG attempt. Maybe not say as much, but bet some would be thinking it.
Didn't have a ton of time, playing against top 3 defense while unexpectedly missing 3 all-pros they practiced with all week... take that as more of an explanation than an excuse. It wasn't like they played scaredy cat once they got in fringe FG range the way many teams do in that situation.

I always say: the true test of a young QB is what they do once they fail a few times, especially in big situations. The great ones figure out how to improve so it doesn't happen again. Many fold the tent and spiral downward.

In that context, I'm, not sure where Kenny is on the career trajectory. This year, he's now looked good late game vs the #20 & #25 defenses. Made a great throw that beat the #2 defense (after they dry heaved all over themselves AND called a ridiculous defense for the late-game situation. But those are things he's supposed to do and he did them. He's also not turning the ball over (and not throwing any TDs), which I'm sure gives his HC a chubby but... can you win anything meaningful playing that way?

I keep saying what they're doing isn't sustainable but maybe enough teams in the league are good at beating themselves and letting the Steelers offense hang out for them to be a fringe playoff team. That's shocking to every part of my football sensibility but, you know, good for Mike T.

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Post by CKSteeler » Wed Oct 25, 2023 4:44 pm

bradshaw2ben wrote:
Wed Oct 25, 2023 2:48 pm
I keep saying what they're doing isn't sustainable but maybe enough teams in the league are good at beating themselves and letting the Steelers offense hang out for them to be a fringe playoff team. That's shocking to every part of my football sensibility but, you know, good for Mike T.
This is where I'm at.

This is a very average league right now where even the top teams screw the pooch on any given week. The only team I believe in when it matters is KC and that's a combination of Mahomes and Reid.

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Post by Jobu » Wed Oct 25, 2023 5:53 pm

This is a very average league right now…
This is so true!
But this is what the league head honchos and, more importantly, the owners want. Keep everyone in it for as long as you can.
NHALS = NFL purgatory

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Post by stillthere » Wed Oct 25, 2023 6:06 pm

Jobu wrote:
Wed Oct 25, 2023 5:53 pm
This is a very average league right now…
This is so true!
But this is what the league head honchos and, more importantly, the owners want. Keep everyone in it for as long as you can.
League is set up for everyone to be .500 worst record gets the top pick. 1st place schedule vs 4th place schedule. Salary cap that keeps small market teams in direct competition with big market teams.

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