Pickett's Ceiling???

[anpsteel]

When do QBs get to call there own plays? Specifically KP? Or is that what you mean by "free Kenny to fail and let's see what he's made of."

With very few exceptions, QBs do not call their own plays in todays NFL.
Hell, if the reports are true, 18 year vet Ben Roethlisberger wasn’t even permitted to audible in his final season.

.....and there it is.

Soon to be Hall of Famer Ben Roethlisberger wasn't fucking allowed to audible in Matt Canada and Mike Tomlin's ultra conservative offense, but folks around here expect them to "free Pickett" so he can start throwing the ball around the field so we can see if Pickett can be a gunslinger.

THAT. ISN'T. GOING. TO. HAPPEN.

I've mentioned these points previously; not in efforts to bash Pickett, but to illustrate that the existing problem isn't solely Canada or Pickett. A huge amount of the problem rests at Tomlin's feet; and until he changes or leaves- the offense is effed.

[RemoAZ]

Tomlin lives in his fears. This overly conservative game plan has him twisted in knots. No way he develops under this coaching staff.

[jebrick]

Tomlin lives in his fears. This overly conservative game plan has him twisted in knots. No way he develops under this coaching staff.

Tomlin is no more conservative in game plans than Cowher. Cowher just built a better team that Ben could step into.

[stillthere]

I am sort of interested in where people see his ceiling currently. Does someone say Chad Pennington? Mark Sanchez? Rich Gannon? Deshon Kizer? Tom Brady? Bobby Herbert?

I am interested in what traits maybe people see? Is it clutch in the 4th Joe Montana? Will it be Mike Tomczak? Neil O'Donnell?

Garner Minshew

They will go head to head in a few weeks we get to see the duel.

[stillthere]

And same with the comparisons to Ben. Yes their aggregate stats were similar, but Ben was setting YPA records as a rookie and Kenny struggles to complete a pass more then 5 yards down the field.

We also ran play action with an effective running game when BR7 was a rookie.

[bradshaw2ben]

I've been watching football since the 1960s. I maintain that you can see when a QB has "it". Now, they may not be consistently successful early, and they may have flaws that doom their innate ability to play QB in the NFL--a ridiculously tough job--but you can see some magic in what they do when they're in the pocket and bullets are flying. You either see their preternatural calm and vision for the field under duress or at least some outlier tools to clue you in that they could be special.

I think the mere fact you have to squint to see it tells you the answer. Now, a QB who doesn't scream "it" might develop over time to be a good pro and maybe even a solid caretaker of a solid team ISO a superstar QB.

I said from the beginning that the guy he reminded me of was Maddox. Came into Denver at the age Pickett was when he was a Junior at Pitt. Showed occasional flashes (I lived in Denver then and saw him play) but was just not it, so they moved on after two years. It would totally not shock me if--and that's a big IF-- Pickett deteriorates in PIT and moves on... he could emerge somewhere and spark a team with his competitiveness and ability to rally late. Maybe a team that lets him throw the ball and make mistakes?

I think Pickett needs to be bolder, make mistakes from inside the pocket, learn from them... that is if he wants to develop and have a chance at being more than barely adequate. That's what Maddox did in the XFL. Played IDGAF football at fairly low stakes. Built some swagger.

Free Kenny to fail and let's see what he's made of.

When do QBs get to call there own plays? Specifically KP? Or is that what you mean by "free Kenny to fail and let's see what he's made of."

I mean: the Steelers goal of being totally risk-averse (not taking ANY chance that might jeopardize the team's short-term outlook) is at 100% odds of developing a QB. You can choose to play it super safe with your (sorta) young QB OR let him find himself and his limits, even... you can't do both at the same time.

[955876]

Running TD's don't count.

Only passing TD's matter.

For being such an old man you sure have a real hard time understanding an argument while having a knack for arguing like a 12 year old.

NOBODY IS SAYING THAT. NOBODY.

You are talking about singular games. We are talking about the big picture and his development or lack thereof.

It doesn’t matter how a particular game is won. We all get that.

But it does matter how our 1st round QB is developing and right now he’s not shown any growth. None.

Doesn’t look one bit better than he did as a rookie.

And that is highly concerning. As are his league bottom feeder numbers.

Can you put that nonsense to bed now?

Better, when/if we get blown off the field in the playoffs because KP and the 3 & out offense can’t keep up be sure to come back here and tell us how great that week 9 win was and how it doesn’t matter that he doesn’t throw TD passes.

Rushing TDs are great. But ummm, wouldn’t it be nice to have a couple rushing AND a couple passing TDs like actual NFL offenses routinely do?

Shit, throw in a Boz FG and that magically gives you a 30 point game. Amazing how that works.

Now impress me by showing you grasp this.

Nevermind, I’ll get smiley faces and “rushing TDs don’t matter” nonsense.

You are going to repeat that false narrative the rest of the season aren’t you?

I guess it’s better than all the ball washing you were doing back in the preseason. That hasn’t turned out so good for you.

Now tell me I’m a wanna be GM so we can complete the circle.

Nevermind the fact I’ve never participated in a single mock draft here in two decades of posting.

My concern with KP has always been his medicore arm and that we over drafted him because he went to Pitt.

He hasn’t proven that to be wrong.

[the-other-burg]

To be a good QB in this league you need either a really big arm, or a really big brain. The less you have of one the more you need of the other. I'm rooting for Kenny, but we can all admit he doesnt have a big arm. What I'm beginning to get concerned about is that he may be lacking the intellect as well.

I still think think its too soon to completely tell, because the smarts takes a lot longer to develop in the NFL than the physical tools.

[Orangesteel]

To be a good QB in this league you need either a really big arm, or a really big brain. The less you have of one the more you need of the other. I'm rooting for Kenny, but we can all admit he doesnt have a big arm. What I'm beginning to get concerned about is that he may be lacking the intellect as well.

I still think think its too soon to completely tell, because the smarts takes a lot longer to develop in the NFL than the physical tools.

This.

[K_C_]

Running TD's don't count.

Only passing TD's matter.

For being such an old man you sure have a real hard time understanding an argument while having a knack for arguing like a 12 year old.

NOBODY IS SAYING THAT. NOBODY.

You are talking about singular games. We are talking about the big picture and his development or lack thereof.

It doesn’t matter how a particular game is won. We all get that.

But it does matter how our 1st round QB is developing and right now he’s not shown any growth. None.

Doesn’t look one bit better than he did as a rookie.

And that is highly concerning. As are his league bottom feeder numbers.

Can you put that nonsense to bed now?

Better, when/if we get blown off the field in the playoffs because KP and the 3 & out offense can’t keep up be sure to come back here and tell us how great that week 9 win was and how it doesn’t matter that he doesn’t throw TD passes.

Rushing TDs are great. But ummm, wouldn’t it be nice to have a couple rushing AND a couple passing TDs like actual NFL offenses routinely do?

Shit, throw in a Boz FG and that magically gives you a 30 point game. Amazing how that works.

Now impress me by showing you grasp this.

Nevermind, I’ll get smiley faces and “rushing TDs don’t matter” nonsense.

You are going to repeat that false narrative the rest of the season aren’t you?

I guess it’s better than all the ball washing you were doing back in the preseason. That hasn’t turned out so good for you.

Now tell me I’m a wanna be GM so we can complete the circle.

Nevermind the fact I’ve never participated in a single mock draft here in two decades of posting.

My concern with KP has always been his medicore arm and that we over drafted him because he went to Pitt.

He hasn’t proven that to be wrong.

I didn't read what you wrote after the first couple of sentences, but you were crying all about Pickett not throwing enough TD passes.

....and you got called out on it so now you're backtracking.

Now it's okay for the Steelers to score on the ground.

That's good news you approve.

Buys Pickett some time. I mean, you keep crying about him and I'm sure Cool Shades will do you a favor and put Mitch in.

[955876]

Most simple minded dimwit for years running. Congratulations.

I know you aren’t able to separate two lines of thought.

- Great we won and doesn’t matter how.

- Sucks that KP continues flounder with league worst performances.

Both can be true at the same time.

Wouldn’t it be nice to actually see some progress at this point from a 1st rounder?

It’s like buying a new Porsche but being too afraid to ever get it over 60. Didn’t need a Porsche if that is all you are going to do with it.

Did Devin Bush not deserve to be criticized for his woeful play because we won some games despite that woeful play?

If Dan Moore starts giving up a shit load of sacks but we win should his below the line performance not be discussed?

I know these concepts are beyond your realm of comprehension.

But that is expected from the guy who celebrated our preseason like no fan has ever before.

You were downright giddy over those meaningless games and blew KP harder than his wife ever will.

So I get the hole you are in right now.

[K_C_]

Most simple minded dimwit for years running. Congratulations.

I know you aren’t able to separate two lines of thought.

- Great we won and doesn’t matter how.

- Sucks that KP continues flounder with league worst performances.

Both can be true at the same time.

Wouldn’t it be nice to actually see some progress at this point from a 1st rounder?

It’s like buying a new Porsche but being too afraid to ever get it over 60. Didn’t need a Porsche if that is all you are going to do with it.

Did Devin Bush not deserve to be criticized for his woeful play because we won some games despite that woeful play?

If Dan Moore starts giving up a shit load of sacks but we win should his below the line performance not be discussed?

I know these concepts are beyond your realm of comprehension.

But that is expected from the guy who celebrated our preseason like no fan has ever before.

You were downright giddy over those meaningless games and blew KP harder than his wife ever will.

So I get the hole you are in right now.

Like the simpleton you prove yourself to be with every post, you put all of the offensive woes on Pickett.

That's just so utterly fucking moronic and yet....it's par for the course with you.

Pickett is your fixation now. Normally it's "Jibbs" (gee, I wonder why you call him that ) but now, at least you've changed it up.

Your hatred is aimed at Kenny Pickett.

You do understand that if "Jibbs" ( ) wanted to,, he could alway bench the underperforming Pickett, right?

Why isn't "Jibbs" ( ) benching Pickett? Because like anyone with a working fucking brain, he realizes that Pickett is far from the only problem with this offense......and, the team is winning.

For some reason, "Jibbs" ( ) feels the need to keep trotting Kenny out there despite all his warts.

Maybe he's doing it just to piss you off?

That'd be great.

[955876]

Like the simpleton you prove yourself to be with every post, you put all of the offensive woes on Pickett.

Except I’ve never put it all on Pickett. Not once.

So yet again it is YOU showing that you can’t grasp nuance. Very black and white with you.

We actually agree quite a bit in regards to what you’ve said vs what I’ve said.

You are just crying because you blew the guy like a girl at a Justin Beiber concert and told the board how great he was going to be this year.

But he hasn’t been. Happy feet, tunnel vision, poor footwork, running into the pass rush, bailing on clean pockets, poor accuracy, and like last year hasn’t shown a consistent ability to pick up chunk yards.

I give Jibbs and No-O Canada plenty of shit so why in the world would you claim I’m putting it all on Pickett?

Oh that’s right, because you are a simple minded nitwit.

[955876]

It would be beyond dumb to bench Pickett as we need to see (win or lose) if he’s going to grow or not.

Especially after drafting him in the first.

I cringe every time he takes a hard hit because his development is really what this season is about.

So again you are making arguments and points to fit your twisted version of this debate.

I’ve not, and never made any of these claims.

Jibbs knew the kid needs to get better and fucking said so. He also knows he can’t bench the guy because that retards his development further.

That in in no way means Pickett is playing well.

He isn’t.

And you damn well know it.

[K_C_]

It would be beyond dumb to bench Pickett as we need to see (win or lose) if he’s going to grow or not.

Especially after drafting him in the first.

I cringe every time he takes a hard hit because his development is really what this season is about.

So again you are making arguments and points to fit your twisted version of this debate.

I’ve not, and never made any of these claims.

Jibbs knew the kid needs to get better and fucking said so. He also knows he can’t bench the guy because that retards his development further.

That in in no way means Pickett is playing well.

He isn’t.

And you damn well know it.

Like most QB's early in their career, Pickett is going to be up and down.

He's had some very good moments and some very bad ones.

The good thing is, he isn't turning the ball over. He tried a few times in the last game to turn it over, but he didn't.

So, while you don't think Pickett is playing well, I actually think he's doing fine.

Does he need to do more as the season continues? Um...no shit. Of course he does.

Crying over and over about how he hasn't done enough to meet your expectations is your right, but what does it accomplish for you?

I mean, everybody knows Pickett isn't where he needs to be, but he's also doing enough to win games....which is kinda what it's all about.

The guys who throw really pretty passes like Will Levis and Jordan Love? Those guys also killed their teams chances with awful INT's.

Pickett isn't doing that.

But go ahead and tell everybody for the 40th time today that you aren't happy with where Pickett is at.

Sorry for interrupting.

[955876]

Does he need to do more as the season continues? Um...no shit. Of course he does.

See you fully agree with me. What’s really happening here is you blew your wad over the preseason and hyped the guy to no end. So now your feeling get hurt if people are rightfully critical of his lack of progress.

I’m going to ultimately judge him on what he does or fails to do in the postseason.

You can keep blowing him for “not losing games”.

Pssst, Mason Rudolph could do that.

And that is the point people (not just myself) are making.

You don’t need a 1st round QB to hand the ball and off and dink some passes into the flat.

It’s also why I wanted Jibbs gone BEFORE we got a new QB because I had little faith he and his lame OC would be able to develop one.

So far they are proving me to be right.

If you buy a Porsche you are going to want to drive it fast. If you are too sacred too then stick with a Prius.

Just like if you draft a QB in the 1st round you shouldn’t have to protect him from the scary middle of the field IN YEAR TWO!!

He’s going to need to be able to operate there. You realize that right?

Does that come year 4?

[955876]

Will Levis

Playing in his what 2nd game?

KP killed us with picks last year as a rookie too.

He isn’t throwing them this year. But that is because they are hiding him. Not because he’s grown as a player.

Let’s see how Levi’s is playing by game 20…

[CKSteeler]

Only in KC's head are there hordes of fans calling for Mitch Trubisky to take the field.

[K_C_]

Does he need to do more as the season continues? Um...no shit. Of course he does.

See you fully agree with me. What’s really happening here is you blew your wad over the preseason and hyped the guy to no end. So now your feeling get hurt if people are rightfully critical of his lack of progress.

I’m going to ultimately judge him on what he does or fails to do in the postseason.

You can keep blowing him for “not losing games”.

Pssst, Mason Rudolph could do that.

And that is the point people (not just myself) are making.

You don’t need a 1st round QB to hand the ball and off and dink some passes into the flat.

It’s also why I wanted Jibbs gone BEFORE we got a new QB because I had little faith he and his lame OC would be able to develop one.

So far they are proving me to be right.

If you buy a Porsche you are going to want to drive it fast. If you are too sacred too then stick with a Prius.

Just like if you draft a QB in the 1st round you shouldn’t have to protect him from the scary middle of the field IN YEAR TWO!!

He’s going to need to be able to operate there. You realize that right?

Does that come year 4?

You are one weird motherfucker.

If Mason Rudolph could do what Pickett is doing and has done (what is it now, 7 or 8 final drive 4th quarter comeback wins? I forget so enlighten me) Mason would be the starter.

Same with Mitch.

Sheesh.

What you fail to understand is that, in this uber conservative offense, Pickett for the most part is doing exactly what Tomlin wants.

Avoiding risks and not making the big mistakes WHICH OTHER YOUNG QB'S THE STEELERS ARE PLAYING AGAINST ARE MAKING.

They don't want Pickett slinging it around. They didn't fucking want late stage Ben Roethlisberger slinging it around until....wait for it.....just like Pickett has been doing, they asked Ben to "go win us a game late, we're losing."

Pickett isn't doing enough early in games, but you're trying to make the guy out to be some complete failure because he isn't putting up the Madden numbers which will cause you to stop stomping your feet and kicking your dog.

This offense is designed to fucking WIN CLOSE GAMES.

Yes, even if Will Levis or Jordan Love were the QB in Pittsburgh, they'd be running the exact same type of offense that you're seeing from Matt Canada and Mike "Jibbs" Tomlin.

Have a great day. You're "that guy" who has to have the last word. So by all means, have it.

You must be serious fun at parties.

[955876]

Only in KC's head are there hordes of fans calling for Mitch Trubisky to take the field.

Exactly.

He’s the master of twisting one’s argument to something it isn’t and then arguing against it.

[955876]

Pickett isn't doing enough early in games, but you're trying to make the guy out to be some complete failure because he isn't putting up the Madden numbers which will cause you to stop stomping your feet and kicking your dog.

Madden numbers? How about just not being bottom feeder level ?

Is that too much to want to see from a 1st rounder?

And I’m not stomping any feet nor would ever kick any dog.

More made up fantasy argument points.

I’ll be the first to compliment KP when he actually does something worthy of being a 1st rounder.

Especially because I’ve said many times I want the guy to succeed. But you miss that and respond with bullshit hyperbole and faux arguments nobody is making.

That’s why you shouldn’t have the last word.

Now be true to your word and piss off since you claimed to be done here.

[gojira5150]

Will Levis

Playing in his what 2nd game?

KP killed us with picks last year as a rookie too.

He isn’t throwing them this year. But that is because they are hiding him. Not because he’s grown as a player.

Let’s see how Levi’s is playing by game 20…

Exactly. KP8 can't throw INT's if he's not throwing 10 yards pass the line of scrimmage. At this point he's check down Charlie. He should have had at least 5 picks this season if DB's didn't flat out drop easy picks.

As far as KC going on and on about KP8 fourth qtr comebacks. He has those comebacks because he's played like Crap for 3 qtrs and has to actually put on his big boy pants and lead the team in the 4th. If he played the 1st three qtrs like the 4th, he'd be one heck of a QB.

[jeemie]

Will Levis

Playing in his what 2nd game?

KP killed us with picks last year as a rookie too.

He isn’t throwing them this year. But that is because they are hiding him. Not because he’s grown as a player.

Let’s see how Levi’s is playing by game 20…

Exactly. KP8 can't throw INT's if he's not throwing 10 yards pass the line of scrimmage. At this point he's check down Charlie. He should have had at least 5 picks this season if DB's didn't flat out drop easy picks.

As far as KC going on and on about KP8 fourth qtr comebacks. He has those comebacks because he's played like Crap for 3 qtrs and has to actually put on his big boy pants and lead the team in the 4th. If he played the 1st three qtrs like the 4th, he'd be one heck of a QB.

And at least one of those 4th Quarter comebacks wasn’t him, but the D.

The first Browns’ game with the two defensive TDs.

Kenny and the O had -9 total yards in the quarter, yet he still gets credit for a 4th quarter comeback.

[langer]

I saw Kenny coming out of the tunnel a couple of games ago. He was just standing there, and no one around him. He seemed to keep to himself.

I haven't been very reassured watching his body language. There's no fire with this guy. I would have expected a brawl on the sidelines, something, anything.

He needs a bit of Marino and Ben in his personality. He's on the path to a one-way ticket to palookaville.

His ceiling is Mitch Trubisky at this point. Yet another first round washout.

He can stop that from happening, but that would require fighting the system. If they system has placed him in the collective, it's over Johnny.

The NFL has a serious QB problem.

Hang on.

Ben didn't say shit when having to endure the Matt Canada offense.

Much like Pickett, you could tell Ben hated running this offense, but he didn't bitch. He didn't throw any fits.

Ben might bitch about Canada now, with the safety of his podcast, but he didn't say ANYTHING when he was playing under Tomlin and Canada.

I used to complain right here that Ben, with his fucking HALL OF FAME RESUME (which Pickett obviously doesn't have) should have been far, far more vocal about his hatred of the Matt Canada offense.

But nope, Ben remained a good soldier.

I should have been clearer.

Ben would go "off script" and sandlot when he could. He would also go after Haley and disagree with him.

I don't see Kenny doing that. He plays Kennyball.

[jeemie]

This is a picture I see going around as an example of how Kenny doesn’t read defenses, and how Canada’s play design can get receivers open.

This was he okay where, I believe, Kenny decided ahead of time he was just throwing the ball to Warren and didn’t even try to read the field.

But he had big plays available on at least three other routes had he taken the time to look for them.

IMG_2735.jpeg (114.12 KiB) Viewed 1257 times

[K_C_]

I saw Kenny coming out of the tunnel a couple of games ago. He was just standing there, and no one around him. He seemed to keep to himself.

I haven't been very reassured watching his body language. There's no fire with this guy. I would have expected a brawl on the sidelines, something, anything.

He needs a bit of Marino and Ben in his personality. He's on the path to a one-way ticket to palookaville.

His ceiling is Mitch Trubisky at this point. Yet another first round washout.

He can stop that from happening, but that would require fighting the system. If they system has placed him in the collective, it's over Johnny.

The NFL has a serious QB problem.

Hang on.

Ben didn't say shit when having to endure the Matt Canada offense.

Much like Pickett, you could tell Ben hated running this offense, but he didn't bitch. He didn't throw any fits.

Ben might bitch about Canada now, with the safety of his podcast, but he didn't say ANYTHING when he was playing under Tomlin and Canada.

I used to complain right here that Ben, with his fucking HALL OF FAME RESUME (which Pickett obviously doesn't have) should have been far, far more vocal about his hatred of the Matt Canada offense.

But nope, Ben remained a good soldier.

I should have been clearer.

Ben would go "off script" and sandlot when he could. He would also go after Haley and disagree with him.

I don't see Kenny doing that. He plays Kennyball.

Ben might have went off script when Haley was OC but not with Matt Canada calling plays.

……and I’ll never understand why.

[955876]

This is a picture I see going around as an example of how Kenny doesn’t read defenses, and how Canada’s play design can get receivers open.

This was he okay where, I believe, Kenny decided ahead of time he was just throwing the ball to Warren and didn’t even try to read the field.

But he had big plays available on at least three other routes had he taken the time to look for them.

IMG_2735.jpeg

Those open receivers (especially the one down the left sideline waving his arm) are already out of Pop-Gun Pickett’s range.

I kid.

Sort of…

[CKSteeler]

Those open receivers (especially the one down the left sideline waving his arm) are already out of Pop-Gun Pickett’s range.

I kid.

Sort of…

I'm fairly certain that whatever natural aggression Pickett has had has been beaten out of him by this coaching staff. Getting to 9-8 is far more important to Mediocre Mike than letting his young QB make mistakes.

[Steelperch]

It’s Daniel Jones. Let’s just hope the franchise isn’t dumb enough to get backed into a corner and give him a big extension. That’s my biggest fear.

[Deebo]

This is a picture I see going around as an example of how Kenny doesn’t read defenses, and how Canada’s play design can get receivers open.

This was he okay where, I believe, Kenny decided ahead of time he was just throwing the ball to Warren and didn’t even try to read the field.

But he had big plays available on at least three other routes had he taken the time to look for them.

IMG_2735.jpeg

Here's the context to this play/route combo. Yup, those WR's are open- no debate here.

Buuuuut...he also believes Warren will be open. He obviously isn't, but look at the options:

- Deep throw to the left 1 on 1 coverage
- Throw to the middle with a S lingering
- Flat route to Warren
- I'm ignoring Pickens bc KP doesn't even look to his right so that's not possible

So out of 3 options he picked the safest one. I'm convinced it's coaching: get it out, take the safe play, etc.
Why am I convinced it's coaching? Bc we saw Ben get it out that quick too...