What will it take to admit Kenny is a bust?

[Louis Lipps Service]

You can call him whatever you want. My opinion of him is that he’s a bust given draft position. If he was taken in the 4th round or higher than who cares. First round he’s under the microscope. And it’s not (for me at least) about being right or wrong. It’s knowing what they knew about him out of college and what his tendencies and weaknesses were, why did a guy on his way out the door reach for Kenny as if the first round grade was legitimate? I agree with fractal in the other thread; the trend in the league right now is to overdraft QBs and in a year (almost historic year) where the QB class was so bad, Colbert went into warp speed overdraft mode with his assessment on Kenny.

It has been said that if you flip Pickens and Pickett it isn’t so bad; Pickens from what we seen is a legitimate first round talent. But I still think Kenny is a 4th a 5th round guy AND the error is compounded when they decided to bring back Mitch for like $8M a year and Mason for who the hell knows why.

I find it interesting that you're so willing to imply that Pickens has already proven would have been worth a 1st round pick despite only averaging 3 catches and 53 yards per game over a two year span.

That doesn't seem like first round production, to me.

And to be clear, as I am with Kenny, I'm more than willing to give George the benefit of the doubt and the lattitude to prove it after Canada was fired.

It just seems pretty obvious to me that you aren't giving both of those same players the same and equal benefit.

Pickens has made some insane plays already at a position that his coveted in the modern NFL (unless it’s the Steelers offense). That wasn’t a stellar WR class but there are some names in there that look very good, Pickens included. Pickens in a legit offense would be wildly dangerous. Here is a re-draft; take it for what is worth. Also, flipping the Pickens and Pickett selections provides a bit of copium for what Colbert actually did that day while huffing paint, but it hardly satisfies the first round grade they had on Kenny:

https://www.si.com/nfl/2023/06/08/2022 ... illiams-wr

[Deebo]

From what we've seen in 25 games, it looks like his ceiling is well below league average.

His ceiling looks like Mason Rudolph.

Do I remember correctly that the Steelers had a R1 Grade on Rudolph?

Did Colbert develop a paint huffing habit toward the end?

Probably was more into Purple Drank

[DP39]

Do I remember correctly that the Steelers had a R1 Grade on Rudolph?

Did Colbert develop a paint huffing habit toward the end?

2018 - Terrell Edmunds (1st round) - Mason Rudolph (1st round grade, taken in 3rd)
2019 - Devin Bush (1st round, traded up)
2020 - Chase Claypool (2nd round, 1st went for Minkah, Poo later to Bears for a 2nd)
2021 - Najee Harris (1st round)
2022 - Kenny Pickett (1st round)

Results of a "Paint Huffing Habit".

Man, that's fugly.

Although, Colbert wasn't huffing paint fumes, but something much worse: he was huffing the stink coming from MT's "gut". Edmunds, Bush and Harris were 100% must haves by Tomlin. And with Kenny, I suspect Colbert gave MT what he wanted there too, as he wasn't gonna be around after that anyway -- so, why wouldn't he.

[Jobu]

And with Kenny, I suspect Colbert gave MT what he wanted there too, as he wasn't gonna be around after that anyway -- so, why wouldn't he.

Colbert openly declared his intention to leave the team with their next franchise QB in place, but I think Tomlin wanted Willis.
I honestly believe that Little Kenny was mandated by A2.

[Steelperch]

[DP39]

And with Kenny, I suspect Colbert gave MT what he wanted there too, as he wasn't gonna be around after that anyway -- so, why wouldn't he.

Colbert openly declared his intention to leave the team with their next franchise QB in place, but I think Tomlin wanted Willis.
I honestly believe that Little Kenny was mandated by A2.

Yep. I remembered that, and I think MT wanted Willis too, but I think knowing a QB was gonna be taken in the first, he settled (and towed the company line) for the local Pitt guy to fit in with Deuce & Co., imo. Not a hill he was Willis-ing to die on, so to speak.

[Mick]

Kenny, at his best, can be a league average QB. That's perfectly fine, but not when you're a first round pick at a team that is trying to replace a HOF QB in Big Ben.

From what we've seen in 25 games, it looks like his ceiling is well below league average.

His ceiling looks like Mason Rudolph.

League average QB rating is 92. Kenny is at 80
League average TD passes is at 15, Kenny is at 6
League average completion % is at 65.7 Kenny is at 62.0
League average YPA is at 7.0 Kenny is at 6.4
League average passing yards per game is at 240 Kenny is at 172

League average QB performance would be roughly this years version of Trevor Lawrence or Jordan Love. Kenny hasn’t shown anything to make you believe he’ll ever be average let along ever get to above average.

the numbers are bad. But it’s a bit weird. The QBs playing for Shanahan’s 2021, 2022, and 2023 offensive coordinators are cutting through the league like a hot knife through butter, all three well over 8 YPA. No one else is at 8 Y/A though; the QBs before the season you probably would have put as the class of the AFC are at:
Mahomes 7.0 Y/A
Herbert 6.9 Y/A
Watson 6.5 Y/A
(Pickett 6.4)
Burrow 6.3 Y/A.

Last year playing for Shanahan Garoppolo was 3rd in the NFL in QB rating, this year, now with Davante Adams, he’s behind Pickett. I suspect coaching matters a good deal these days for offense.

[Steelperch]

League average TD % for QBs is between 4.0 and 4.8 over the past few seasons. Kenny is at 1.9%

[DP39]

League average TD % for QBs is between 4.0 and 4.8 over the past few seasons. Kenny is at 1.9%

Hey, I know KP didn't have his best game and maybe missed one or two plays, BUT, BUT, BUT, BUT.....(20 excuses) ......and he WILL play better, though. I believe in him (I'm always right about players, no matter what anyone else thinks/can prove)!

Interesting how I haven't had to wade thru the normal shit-ton of posts from someone (who shall go unnamed -- kay-cee ), that writes like the above, over the last 24 hours. Is the lightbulb FINALLY turning on for that dude? Hmmm -- I still have my doubts.

[Obviously]

Do I remember correctly that the Steelers had a R1 Grade on Rudolph?

Did Colbert develop a paint huffing habit toward the end?

2018 - Terrell Edmunds (1st round) - Mason Rudolph (1st round grade, taken in 3rd)
2019 - Devin Bush (1st round, traded up)
2020 - Chase Claypool (2nd round, 1st went for Minkah, Poo later to Bears for a 2nd)
2021 - Najee Harris (1st round)
2022 - Kenny Pickett (1st round)

Results of a "Paint Huffing Habit".

Dismal

[blu]

It's time to admit KP is not the guy.

[bradshaw2ben]

Im giving him to next year with new oc. If Rooney was smart, which apparently he isn't, he should fire Tomlin and let another coaching staff try to fix him if possible.

Unfortunately, Tomlin is here next year with his oc that he will pick which will result in the same bullshit we have been watching for the last 10 years.

Tomlin has actually insulated himself quite nicely over the last decade, blaming his coordinators for the Steelers shortfalls.

What we have been forced to watch is worse then Marvin Lewis Bengals. Maybe Carolina will want Tomlin or Rooney just pulls the plug on Tomlin and starts over.

No, dear god, don't saddle a new OC with both Tomlin and KP. Just shoot the horse now.

[bradshaw2ben]

You can call him whatever you want. My opinion of him is that he’s a bust given draft position. If he was taken in the 4th round or higher than who cares. First round he’s under the microscope. And it’s not (for me at least) about being right or wrong. It’s knowing what they knew about him out of college and what his tendencies and weaknesses were, why did a guy on his way out the door reach for Kenny as if the first round grade was legitimate? I agree with fractal in the other thread; the trend in the league right now is to overdraft QBs and in a year (almost historic year) where the QB class was so bad, Colbert went into warp speed overdraft mode with his assessment on Kenny.

It has been said that if you flip Pickens and Pickett it isn’t so bad; Pickens from what we seen is a legitimate first round talent. But I still think Kenny is a 4th a 5th round guy AND the error is compounded when they decided to bring back Mitch for like $8M a year and Mason for who the hell knows why.

I find it interesting that you're so willing to imply that Pickens has already proven would have been worth a 1st round pick despite only averaging 3 catches and 53 yards per game over a two year span.

That doesn't seem like first round production, to me.

And to be clear, as I am with Kenny, I'm more than willing to give George the benefit of the doubt and the lattitude to prove it after Canada was fired.

It just seems pretty obvious to me that you aren't giving both of those same players the same and equal benefit.

The difference is that Pickens can't throw it to himself.

The part of Kenny's game that's lacking hasn't changed the last two weeks. He had some more guys open and better looks vs Cincy, but he still has problems reading, getting off his reads postsnap, and throwing the ball where and when it has to go.

[bradshaw2ben]

You can argue he’s shown to be a bust when someone outplays him in the same system.

You should operate as if he’s probably a bust if he doesn’t prove to be The Guy in year 2.

They strategically surrounded KP with the 3 worst QBs they could find, now signed a 4th shitty QB... no chance one of them is going to outplay him.

Of course, the "corpse of Ben Roethlisberger" seriously outplayed him in this offense, so there's that.

[Jams]

Personally, I was waiting until the end of this season to see if he continued to how improvement after Canada's departure.

And I have no loyalty to Kenny, or any other player really. The amount of people who hold on to their agendas one way or the other and refuse to give any ground whatsoever over a refusal to admit their opinion may have had even the slightest of flaws, quite frankly, baffles me.

Here, I'll say a couple things out loud.

I have no idea if Kenny Pickett will ever be a good NFL QB.

Kenny Pickett, during the Matt Canada era, sucked balls.

Kenny Pickett, in the one game he played without Matt Canada, showed significant improvement. Many of the flaws shown during the Matt Canada era were seemingly missing in that one game.

That previous sentence used the word "many of the flaws", not "all of the flaws".

One game is not enough evidence to prove anything, but it is enough to give a glimmer of hope.

I have no idea if Kenny Pickett will ever be a good NFL QB, but I was encouraged by some of the signs I saw from the one game without Canada that I wanted to see more before this season ended.

I apologize for being reasonable, for not picking a side, and for not telling everyone who disagrees with me to fuck off, mop up jizz, or whatever other insult is standard procedure these days.

" Significant improvement" = 16 points. Wow how our standards have dropped. I don't care if we get 1000 yards on offense if we can't score points. That was not an improvement until we score in the mid to upper 20s. With all but one drive in the first half Kenny got us 3 whopping points against a bad defense that was missing both starters at CB. The dude has zero vision for a QB who lacks elite QB skills. In other words he can't use raw talent to overcome his mental shortcomings

[K_C_]

You can argue he’s shown to be a bust when someone outplays him in the same system.

You should operate as if he’s probably a bust if he doesn’t prove to be The Guy in year 2.

They strategically surrounded KP with the 3 worst QBs they could find, now signed a 4th shitty QB... no chance one of them is going to outplay him.

Of course, the "corpse of Ben Roethlisberger" seriously outplayed him in this offense, so there's that.

Not win wise though.

Kenny, as a rookie, along with Trubisky who was utterly horrible, finished 9-8.

Ben finished 9-7-1 (Thanks Mason!)

When Kenny went down this year, he was 7-4.

Stat wise, Ben definitely outplayed Pickett, but wins are what it's about.

[LakecrestSteeler]

TeBr12 vs KP8

[CKSteeler]

You can argue he’s shown to be a bust when someone outplays him in the same system.

You should operate as if he’s probably a bust if he doesn’t prove to be The Guy in year 2.

They strategically surrounded KP with the 3 worst QBs they could find, now signed a 4th shitty QB... no chance one of them is going to outplay him.

Of course, the "corpse of Ben Roethlisberger" seriously outplayed him in this offense, so there's that.

Not win wise though.

Kenny, as a rookie, along with Trubisky who was utterly horrible, finished 9-8.

Ben finished 9-7-1 (Thanks Mason!)

When Kenny went down this year, he was 7-4.

Stat wise, Ben definitely outplayed Pickett, but wins are what it's about.

Everything about this team besides the QB is superior to the 2021 team. But you do you, KC.

You were one of the clowns who was trying to chase Ben off, and that has a lot to do with why you ballwash Kenny Pickett so much though you'd never admit it.

[K_C_]

They strategically surrounded KP with the 3 worst QBs they could find, now signed a 4th shitty QB... no chance one of them is going to outplay him.

Of course, the "corpse of Ben Roethlisberger" seriously outplayed him in this offense, so there's that.

Not win wise though.

Kenny, as a rookie, along with Trubisky who was utterly horrible, finished 9-8.

Ben finished 9-7-1 (Thanks Mason!)

When Kenny went down this year, he was 7-4.

Stat wise, Ben definitely outplayed Pickett, but wins are what it's about.

Everything about this team besides the QB is superior to the 2021 team. But you do you, KC.

You were one of the clowns who was trying to chase Ben off, and that has a lot to do with why you ballwash Kenny Pickett so much though you'd never admit it.

Psssst....the Steelers front office tried to "chase Ben off."

You know, when they made him take a pay cut to return?

.....but if if makes you feel better to put the blame on a person from a message board, then yeah...you do you.

[CKSteeler]

Psssst....the Steelers front office tried to "chase Ben off."

You know, when they made him take a pay cut to return?

.....but if if makes you feel better to put the blame on a person from a message board, then yeah...you do you.

No one blamed you. I simply highlighted what I strongly suspect is a big part of the motive for your ballwashing of Kenny Pickett and how stupid your statement that the record was better (as if anything is finalized this year, anyway).

Give 2021 Ben this OL (the ones you shit on to pretend that Kenny Pickett isn't running himself into pressure) and this group of WR's with the run game starting to click, and he does a hell of a lot more with it than Kenny Pickett could ever dream of despite his age.

[955876]

TeBr12 vs KP8

Please stop comparing a clutch QB that won 4 Super Bowls and had one of the best arms in league history with Pop-Gun Pickett.

You are better than that.

[Smashmouth21]

KP8 will have next year with a new OC to make his case that he is a Franchise signal caller, much to the chagrin of many. But the reasonable debate will like end at that point one way or another.

[CKSteeler]

KP8 will have next year with a new OC to make his case that he is a Franchise signal caller, much to the chagrin of many. But the reasonable debate will like end at that point one way or another.

He'll be benched less than halfway through the season. He likely gets benched this year if the ball bounces a little differently in a couple of games.

[Smashmouth21]

KP8 will have next year with a new OC to make his case that he is a Franchise signal caller, much to the chagrin of many. But the reasonable debate will like end at that point one way or another.

He'll be benched less than halfway through the season. He likely gets benched this year if the ball bounces a little differently in a couple of games.

Perhaps you’re right Miss Cleo.

[LakecrestSteeler]

TeBr12 vs KP8

Please stop comparing a clutch QB that won 4 Super Bowls and had one of the best arms in league history with Pop-Gun Pickett.

You are better than that.

95….go watch…first just watch to enjoy, because the quality is awesome! Then watch with the last Bengals victory game in your mind and ask yourself who could do what the Steelers are doing on offense in SB13. I could see KP calling TB12’s plays. TB called passes on first and runs on 3rd. You just see it is all about execution execution execution. Who is Harris…who is Blier…on down the line. That offense would work today.

Super Bowl XIII at 1080P at 60FPS.
Looks better than the original broadcast!
https://youtu.be/ICEYy4l3G8g?si=OqqOPsC9kGFoUCow

[K_C_]

Psssst....the Steelers front office tried to "chase Ben off."

You know, when they made him take a pay cut to return?

.....but if if makes you feel better to put the blame on a person from a message board, then yeah...you do you.

No one blamed you. I simply highlighted what I strongly suspect is a big part of the motive for your ballwashing of Kenny Pickett and how stupid your statement that the record was better (as if anything is finalized this year, anyway).

Give 2021 Ben this OL (the ones you shit on to pretend that Kenny Pickett isn't running himself into pressure) and this group of WR's with the run game starting to click, and he does a hell of a lot more with it than Kenny Pickett could ever dream of despite his age.

Not at all. Ben was finished and it was time to turn the page. I knew when he walked off that field in KC we'd never see him on a football field again and I'm thankful I never had to witness him wearing another team's jersey. Father time is undefeated, as they say.

You're under some impression that I hate Ben Roethlisberger. That's a dumber than shit take, but hey, if it gets under your skin then I'll go with it.



As for Kenny, I'm rooting for him because he's the starting QB for the Steelers and I think he can improve. If he doesn't, they'll move on from him in a a few years. I'm not a pretend GM and hate the guy because I didn't pick him in a mock draft and didn't want Pickett myself when the Steelers chose Kenny. At all. Big Malik Willis fan I was. Glad I'm not the real GM!!

But here's a novel idea, although I don't like Mitch and hated that the Steelers signed him, I'm gonna root like hell for the guy this Thursday night.

Crazy right?

[K_C_]

KP8 will have next year with a new OC to make his case that he is a Franchise signal caller, much to the chagrin of many. But the reasonable debate will like end at that point one way or another.

He'll be benched less than halfway through the season. He likely gets benched this year if the ball bounces a little differently in a couple of games.

Benched in favor of Mitch Trubisky??

Um...nah. Not buying it.

[955876]

TeBr12 vs KP8

Please stop comparing a clutch QB that won 4 Super Bowls and had one of the best arms in league history with Pop-Gun Pickett.

You are better than that.

95….go watch…first just watch to enjoy, because the quality is awesome! Then watch with the last Bengals victory game in your mind and ask yourself who could do what the Steelers are doing on offense in SB13. I could see KP calling TB12’s plays. TB called passes on first and runs on 3rd. You just see it is all about execution execution execution. Who is Harris…who is Blier…on down the line. That offense would work today.

Super Bowl XIII at 1080P at 60FPS.
Looks better than the original broadcast!
https://youtu.be/ICEYy4l3G8g?si=OqqOPsC9kGFoUCow

Just stop. 2023 NFL football is different than it was in 1974. Night and day.

Further, KP doesn’t have anywhere close to the arm Bradshaw had.

Stop comparing the two. It’s beyond silly.

And a major insult to all-time great TB 12

[stillthere]

Do I remember correctly that the Steelers had a R1 Grade on Rudolph?

Did Colbert develop a paint huffing habit toward the end?

2018 - Terrell Edmunds (1st round) - Mason Rudolph (1st round grade, taken in 3rd)
2019 - Devin Bush (1st round, traded up)
2020 - Chase Claypool (2nd round, 1st went for Minkah, Poo later to Bears for a 2nd)
2021 - Najee Harris (1st round)
2022 - Kenny Pickett (1st round)

Results of a "Paint Huffing Habit".

Do You really think anyone other than Tomlin made that call? Isn't he his godfather or something?

[stillthere]

Did Colbert develop a paint huffing habit toward the end?

2018 - Terrell Edmunds (1st round) - Mason Rudolph (1st round grade, taken in 3rd)
2019 - Devin Bush (1st round, traded up)
2020 - Chase Claypool (2nd round, 1st went for Minkah, Poo later to Bears for a 2nd)
2021 - Najee Harris (1st round)
2022 - Kenny Pickett (1st round)

Results of a "Paint Huffing Habit".

Man, that's fugly.

Although, Colbert wasn't huffing paint fumes, but something much worse: he was huffing the stink coming from MT's "gut". Edmunds, Bush and Harris were 100% must haves by Tomlin. And with Kenny, I suspect Colbert gave MT what he wanted there too, as he wasn't gonna be around after that anyway -- so, why wouldn't he.

I think part of "Colbert's last draft" transition was so that if Kenny didn't work out the current GM would not have to have that on his resume.