HOF Nominees

[Ice]

I'd take Suggs and Kuechly (his short prime was excellent). I get Perch's point about this stage, too. Some of those guys won't even make their team(s)'s Hall/Ring of Honor, let alone the HOF.

[W&M_Steeler]

I can barely think of reasons Eli Manning might be a Hall of Famer, let alone first ballot. Hall of the very good.

Eli went 117-117 in his career. I will forever thank him for beating the cheaters but I don’t k ow if he is HOF worthy.

I think Eli might be used as an excuse to make Ben wait a few years before induction. Eli/Ben/Rivers creates a log jam. They represent the next tier of QBs behind the Brady/P. Manning/Rodgers/Brees tier of the 2000s-2010s. (Personally, I'd but Ben above Brees- switch their teams and Ben would have put up Brees numbers while Brees would have been out of the league in a few years- but only Steelers homers would put Ben above Brees.)

Rivers had the best regular season stats of the three and has a neutral/ non-descript public persona, Ben had better regular season stats than Eli but is widely despised, Eli had the more impressive post-season runs than Ben and is generally well liked. I bet Eli and Ben both wait a few years before induction, and Rivers might sneak in a few years later. There are no clear HoF QBs drafted between Rodgers and Mahomes- not sure that Stafford, Ryan, Newton, or Russell Wilson will make it- so there might be room for Rivers as the 6th best QB in the league during a 15 year period of unbelievably great quarterbacking.

[Mick]

Out of Matt Ryan, Philip Rivers, Russell Wilson, Matt Stafford, even Carson Palmer, where would you rank Eli?

Stafford bumps Eli out of the top 10 in passing yards in the next month or so, which will kill about half the pro-Eli argument (the “…and he also was a pretty good career stat accumulator” part).

[W&M_Steeler]

Out of Matt Ryan, Philip Rivers, Russell Wilson, Matt Stafford, even Carson Palmer, where would you rank Eli?

Stafford bumps Eli out of the top 10 in passing yards in the next month or so, which will kill about half the pro-Eli argument (the “…and he also was a pretty good career stat accumulator” part).

Eli only makes the Hall because he's the Patriots killer. Without the Super Bowl wins over the Brady-Belichick Patriots (particularly the 2007 win), Eli's clearly in Carson Palmer territory. Matt Ryan somehow won an NFL MVP, so his regular season career is in a class above Eli. Eli will join Joe Namath as NY QBs who probably shouldn't be in the Hall but get in because of their legendary Super Bowls.

[Pabst]

Rivers had the best regular season stats of the three

Barely.....

Ben & Rivers are within a rounding error of each other on pretty much all regular season passing stats. The lone exception is winning %, where Ben is way ahead.

Screenshot 2024-09-23 094906.png (99.47 KiB) Viewed 352 times

Rivers vs Eli is an interesting discussion on how much you value stats vs rings, but just looking at what's on paper (I know there's the big question of off the field stuff) Ben is unquestionably ahead of both.

[W&M_Steeler]

Rivers had the best regular season stats of the three

Barely.....

Ben & Rivers are within a rounding error of each other on pretty much all regular season passing stats. The lone exception is winning %, where Ben is way ahead.

Screenshot 2024-09-23 094906.png


Rivers vs Eli is an interesting discussion on how much you value stats vs rings, but just looking at what's on paper (I know there's the big question of off the field stuff) Ben is unquestionably ahead of both.

It greatly annoyed me that the 2021 Matt Canada offense couldn't manage to scheme four more passing TDs for Ben so he'd finish above Marino and Rivers in the all time TD pass count. Those 4 TDs made the difference between finishing 6th all time and finishing 8th all time.

[Pabst]

It greatly annoyed me that the 2021 Matt Canada offense couldn't manage to scheme four more passing TDs for Ben so he'd finish above Marino and Rivers in the all time TD pass count. Those 4 TDs made the difference between finishing 6th all time and finishing 8th all time.

I don't know if that even cracks the top 10 of reasons to hate Matt Canada

[W&M_Steeler]

As for the off-field stuff, it matters a whole lot in these popularity contests. If Kurt Warner had the same media reputation as Roethlisberger, Kurt would have never sniffed the HoF. If Ben had had Warner's reputation and was universally adored by the NFL media, then I bet Ben wins MVP in 2014 (or at least OPOY). The fact that Ben never received votes for MVP, OPOY, or even All Pro will be used against him (and it shows that even the Pittsburgh media wouldn't support him- in 2014, Lev Bell and AB both received OPOY votes, but not Ben. WTF?).

I think Ben should be a first ballot Hall of Famer. But Eli presents an interesting test case. If Eli doesn't get in on the first ballot, I think it creates precedent that will be used to keep Ben out.

[W&M_Steeler]

It greatly annoyed me that the 2021 Matt Canada offense couldn't manage to scheme four more passing TDs for Ben so he'd finish above Marino and Rivers in the all time TD pass count. Those 4 TDs made the difference between finishing 6th all time and finishing 8th all time.

I don't know if that even cracks the top 10 of reasons to hate Matt Canada

It cracks top 5 for me. Ben passing Marino and Rivers was one of the things I was actively watching and pulling for in 2021, and Canada's incompetence kept that from happening. By 2021, it was clear Ben wasn't going to get above 6th all time in passing TDs, but he should have at least reached that.

[Deebo]

As for the off-field stuff, it matters a whole lot in these popularity contests. If Kurt Warner had the same media reputation as Roethlisberger, Kurt would have never sniffed the HoF. If Ben had had Warner's reputation and was universally adored by the NFL media, then I bet Ben wins MVP in 2014 (or at least OPOY). The fact that Ben never received votes for MVP, OPOY, or even All Pro will be used against him (and it shows that even the Pittsburgh media wouldn't support him- in 2014, Lev Bell and AB both received OPOY votes, but not Ben. WTF?).

I think Ben should be a first ballot Hall of Famer. But Eli presents an interesting test case. If Eli doesn't get in on the first ballot, I think it creates precedent that will be used to keep Ben out.

It's exactly what it is: popularity contests

That explains why Charles Haley wasn't in on the 1st ballot a few years back. I Still maintain he was a top 10 rusher ever to put on a uniform.
But he was a major dick to everyone (including the media)