It was a good season..

[Havoc]

how SB winning defenses ranked less then 20 were actually very good because they had "dominant" dlines, that offenses can't carry a defense to a SB win, or how the #1 rated offense

Ben sucked. I no longer assume we have a QB that can win the SB.

The #1 offensive ranking according to who? That's laughable.

We were #6 in points per drive. That's more realistic.

So you rave about this offense and yet you pound a nonsense drum that we didn't need Bell and he didn't matter.

The reason many of us constantly defend ben is because of the off the deep end bashing of him by a few.

I told a cryboy buddy of mine that some steelers fans blame ben for the loss... he said that's crazy. And he's right. Many cryboy fans turned on aikman too.

It's unbelievable that you don't understand what that giants DL did to brady and the patriots in 2 sb's.

[swissvale72]

:lol:

Anyone can post anything they like about Tomlin, Lebeau, how SB winning defenses ranked less then 20 were actually very good because they had "dominant" dlines, that offenses can't carry a defense to a SB win, or how the #1 rated offense didn't shit the bed with 9 first half points and no TDs until the fourth qter.

Just like I can post how incredibly stupid it is to criticize a SB winning HC that just won his division, a DC widely regarded as one of the all time best, and that most of you describe Ben's play as if you were sucking his cock.

Ben sucked. I no longer assume we have a QB that can win the SB.

It's not an either/or Clemson.

*Ben did not play well last Saturday, and he certainly knew it. It took forever for his EZ pass to AB to get there, there was the horrendous EZ pick in 4Q, there was his ignoring an open Dri Archer for much of the night, etc., etc.

*Would you not agree though, and I'm not suggesting that Steelers win had these situations been different:
-Tomlin fucked up by no bringing in another back after cutting Blount? Either we needed somebody else in the event of a Bell injury or we didn't. Obviously, we did, but Tomlin stuck his fuckin' head in the sand on that until it was a crisis situation.
-Lance Moore should have been active, particularly since DHB, who had logged one, zero and zero snaps in December games against Cinci, Atl and Cinci was on the field for 20 snaps?

[Legacy User]

It's not an either/or Clemson.

*Ben did not play well last Saturday, and he certainly knew it. It took forever for his EZ pass to AB to get there, there was the horrendous EZ pick in 4Q, there was his ignoring an open Dri Archer for much of the night, etc., etc.

*Would you not agree though, and I'm not suggesting that Steelers win had these situations been different:
-Tomlin fucked up by no bringing in another back after cutting Blount? Either we needed somebody else in the event of a Bell injury or we didn't. Obviously, we did, but Tomlin stuck his fuckin' head in the sand on that until it was a crisis situation.
-Lance Moore should have been active, particularly since DHB, who had logged one, zero and zero snaps in December games against Cinci, Atl and Cinci was on the field for 20 snaps?

I'm not making it an either/or Swiss. I've stated many times the game plan was lacking and that I thought we should have signed another vet upon Blounts release but that cheap fucking mick Colbert wasn't going to take another cap hit this year if he could help it.

But I would cut Lance Moore and send him off with a golden wheelchair for how much he has left in his legs. Ditto DHB, only make it a gold plated jar of Lester Hayes's stick 'em, both for the holding calls and the doinks. Only 4 WR's should have seen offensive snaps, AB, Bryant, Wheaton, and wtf, we drafted him, Archer or Brown- and Brown should have taken DHBs teams snaps.

I've got two player bones to pick, Ben and Troy.

I'll clarify, I'm a Ben fan, but he came up very small vs the rats- and has several other times this year- but there is a massive defend Ben no matter what sentiment at all these boards. I'll turn up the hyperbole to match the ever present anti-Tomlin/Lebeau hyperbole.

As far as Troy goes, he isn't what he use to be, and that should be recognized. On the other hand he is still a good in the box safety, and much of the criticism comes from two places imo- 1, Troys public persona, similar to DL's age, and 2, the blind hope that the young FNG with the supersonic 40 isn't the near useless piece of shit problem Mitchell is because he's locked down and Troy only has a season or so left in the tank. It's much easier to envision the secondary fix if Troy is the bigger problem then Mitchell.

[Legacy User]

It's not an either/or Clemson.

*Ben did not play well last Saturday, and he certainly knew it. It took forever for his EZ pass to AB to get there, there was the horrendous EZ pick in 4Q, there was his ignoring an open Dri Archer for much of the night, etc., etc.

*Would you not agree though, and I'm not suggesting that Steelers win had these situations been different:
-Tomlin fucked up by no bringing in another back after cutting Blount? Either we needed somebody else in the event of a Bell injury or we didn't. Obviously, we did, but Tomlin stuck his fuckin' head in the sand on that until it was a crisis situation.
-Lance Moore should have been active, particularly since DHB, who had logged one, zero and zero snaps in December games against Cinci, Atl and Cinci was on the field for 20 snaps?

I'm not making it an either/or Swiss. I've stated many times the game plan was lacking and that I thought we should have signed another vet upon Blounts release but that cheap fucking mick Colbert wasn't going to take another cap hit this year if he could help it.

But I would cut Lance Moore and send him off with a golden wheelchair for how much he has left in his legs. Ditto DHB, only make it a gold plated jar of Lester Hayes's stick 'em, both for the holding calls and the doinks. Only 4 WR's should have seen offensive snaps, AB, Bryant, Wheaton, and wtf, we drafted him, Archer or Brown- and Brown should have taken DHBs teams snaps.

I've got two player bones to pick, Ben and Troy.

I'll clarify, I'm a Ben fan, but he came up very small vs the rats- and has several other times this year- but there is a massive defend Ben no matter what sentiment at all these boards. I'll turn up the hyperbole to match the ever present anti-Tomlin/Lebeau hyperbole.

As far as Troy goes, he isn't what he use to be, and that should be recognized. On the other hand he is still a good in the box safety, and much of the criticism comes from two places imo- 1, Troys public persona, similar to DL's age, and 2, the blind hope that the young FNG with the supersonic 40 isn't the near useless piece of shit problem Mitchell is because he's locked down and Troy only has a season or so left in the tank. It's much easier to envision the secondary fix if Troy is the bigger problem then Mitchell.

but you admit the defense was playing well when Allen started the last 4 games of the season in place of Troy?

Agree that Ben sucked -- even w/o Bell, that game was winnable if Ben plays an all-pro caliber game. he didn't come close. Even BGrad looked a lot better than him

[Legacy User]

but you admit the defense was playing well when Allen started the last 4 games of the season in place of Troy?

No, my theory would be the games Troy missed- Jets, Titans, Chefs, and Bengals were against gino, zack, alex and andy- rookies, choke artists, and pop guns.

[jewelsongs]

but you admit the defense was playing well when Allen started the last 4 games of the season in place of Troy?

No, my theory would be the games Troy missed- Jets, Titans, Chefs, and Bengals were against gino, zack, alex and andy- rookies, choke artists, and pop guns.

Jim Wexell's site has a very good article today that provides support to this. Bad offenses had a lot more to do with the play than Troy being out.

[swissvale72]

It's not an either/or Clemson.

*Ben did not play well last Saturday, and he certainly knew it. It took forever for his EZ pass to AB to get there, there was the horrendous EZ pick in 4Q, there was his ignoring an open Dri Archer for much of the night, etc., etc.

*Would you not agree though, and I'm not suggesting that Steelers win had these situations been different:
-Tomlin fucked up by no bringing in another back after cutting Blount? Either we needed somebody else in the event of a Bell injury or we didn't. Obviously, we did, but Tomlin stuck his fuckin' head in the sand on that until it was a crisis situation.
-Lance Moore should have been active, particularly since DHB, who had logged one, zero and zero snaps in December games against Cinci, Atl and Cinci was on the field for 20 snaps?

I'm not making it an either/or Swiss. I've stated many times the game plan was lacking and that I thought we should have signed another vet upon Blounts release but that cheap fucking mick Colbert wasn't going to take another cap hit this year if he could help it.

But I would cut Lance Moore and send him off with a golden wheelchair for how much he has left in his legs. Ditto DHB, only make it a gold plated jar of Lester Hayes's stick 'em, both for the holding calls and the doinks. Only 4 WR's should have seen offensive snaps, AB, Bryant, Wheaton, and wtf, we drafted him, Archer or Brown- and Brown should have taken DHBs teams snaps.

I've got two player bones to pick, Ben and Troy.

I'll clarify, I'm a Ben fan, but he came up very small vs the rats- and has several other times this year- but there is a massive defend Ben no matter what sentiment at all these boards. I'll turn up the hyperbole to match the ever present anti-Tomlin/Lebeau hyperbole.

As far as Troy goes, he isn't what he use to be, and that should be recognized. On the other hand he is still a good in the box safety, and much of the criticism comes from two places imo- 1, Troys public persona, similar to DL's age, and 2, the blind hope that the young FNG with the supersonic 40 isn't the near useless piece of shit problem Mitchell is because he's locked down and Troy only has a season or so left in the tank. It's much easier to envision the secondary fix if Troy is the bigger problem then Mitchell.

You think not signing a RB after jettisoning Blount was a money issue, Clemson? Christ....I sure as fuck hope not....but it's indisputable that they royally fucked up that situation....inexcusable really. And you're referring to Justin Brown, right? I dunno....but DHB with 20 snaps. I'm gonna go back, see how many games it took him coming in to have accumulated 20 snaps. I know he had about 6 or 7 vs. KC, then there was zero, zero, one....so he may have had 10 for the month of December, then20 last week. And Moore...despite the limitations, seemed to offer them more (no pun intended) going in, for a game where they needed to compensate for the loss of Bell however they could.

As Jeems spoke of earlier in the week though, I think they tried to get too fuckin' cute, did too much bullshit, rather than just sticking with "next man up." In this instance though, guy we had been led to believe was the next man, in the person of Josh Harris....really wasn't. Being optimistic, I really expected Steelers to run the same O, said pre-game that it wasn't like we were playing with 10 guys, the other guys could block and catch a pass as well, though Ben Tate did his best to disprove both of those assumptions on a single offensive play.

Whole fuckin' game sucked. As Belichick always says in defeat, Gotta play better, gotta coach better, and was that ever fuckin' evident last Saturday night.

[swissvale72]

It's not an either/or Clemson.

*Ben did not play well last Saturday, and he certainly knew it. It took forever for his EZ pass to AB to get there, there was the horrendous EZ pick in 4Q, there was his ignoring an open Dri Archer for much of the night, etc., etc.

*Would you not agree though, and I'm not suggesting that Steelers win had these situations been different:
-Tomlin fucked up by no bringing in another back after cutting Blount? Either we needed somebody else in the event of a Bell injury or we didn't. Obviously, we did, but Tomlin stuck his fuckin' head in the sand on that until it was a crisis situation.
-Lance Moore should have been active, particularly since DHB, who had logged one, zero and zero snaps in December games against Cinci, Atl and Cinci was on the field for 20 snaps?

I'm not making it an either/or Swiss. I've stated many times the game plan was lacking and that I thought we should have signed another vet upon Blounts release but that cheap fucking mick Colbert wasn't going to take another cap hit this year if he could help it.

But I would cut Lance Moore and send him off with a golden wheelchair for how much he has left in his legs. Ditto DHB, only make it a gold plated jar of Lester Hayes's stick 'em, both for the holding calls and the doinks. Only 4 WR's should have seen offensive snaps, AB, Bryant, Wheaton, and wtf, we drafted him, Archer or Brown- and Brown should have taken DHBs teams snaps.

I've got two player bones to pick, Ben and Troy.

I'll clarify, I'm a Ben fan, but he came up very small vs the rats- and has several other times this year- but there is a massive defend Ben no matter what sentiment at all these boards. I'll turn up the hyperbole to match the ever present anti-Tomlin/Lebeau hyperbole.

As far as Troy goes, he isn't what he use to be, and that should be recognized. On the other hand he is still a good in the box safety, and much of the criticism comes from two places imo- 1, Troys public persona, similar to DL's age, and 2, the blind hope that the young FNG with the supersonic 40 isn't the near useless piece of shit problem Mitchell is because he's locked down and Troy only has a season or so left in the tank. It's much easier to envision the secondary fix if Troy is the bigger problem then Mitchell.

Okay....I'm about to lose my fuckin' mind on something, Clemson.

AB was in for all 75 offensive snaps, Bryant for 63 and Wheaton for 50. I was assuming that whenever DHB was in, that the other three were in as well, that he was ONLY used when four wides were on the field. Now granted, I've only come across one fuckin' instance, but that's one fuckin' instance too many. After Ben was sacked on 1st down from the Baltimore 10 in 2Q, next play, the WR contingent was AB, Bryant and mother-fuckin' DHB. Why?? I'm gonna look, see if I can spot other instances. WTF!!!

[jewelsongs]

I am pretty sure DHB was in so many snaps to go deep and force the Ravens to cover deep. they played most of the game with extra DBs, assuming Ben was going to have to pass. As a result of our inability to run the ball, this strategy was effective. If Lance Moore was in instead of DHB, the passing lanes would have been more crowded, given his lack of speed.

After watching a second time, my opinion is we lost the battle of the trenches on both sides of the ball, and lost because of that.

[Legacy User]

Can't believe I'm seeing all out defense of next man up theory. Its diametrically opposed to the logic of playing to strengths and weaknesses. The coaches are supposed to adjust the team to circumstance. That's bad coaching leading to bad play by players in over their heads..

[swissvale72]

I am pretty sure DHB was in so many snaps to go deep and force the Ravens to cover deep. they played most of the game with extra DBs, assuming Ben was going to have to pass. As a result of our inability to run the ball, this strategy was effective. If Lance Moore was in instead of DHB, the passing lanes would have been more crowded, given his lack of speed.

After watching a second time, my opinion is we lost the battle of the trenches on both sides of the ball, and lost because of that.

Maybe so.....at least six plays in the first half where DHB is one of three, or in one instance, two wides on the field.

[Thrillsseeker]

This season was good. A good one that I'll need some time for the sting to dwindle away. The way it ended to those fucks just grinds on me. Better than 8-8 but means fuckall going out the way we did.

They took our lunch money and whooped our asses. Enough blame to go around and we could all point fingers and talk about shoulda woulda coulda. Happy that James came back we need to regain that intimidator factor. It's just not there. Not sure if he'll be back next year. Unlikely but hope we find the right mix of bad asses because we need em.

I'll look back on the season at some point and enjoy the 11-5 division winning season. I'll enjoy it more when the sting lessons some. I'll look forward to the draft and hope like hell between the draft and FA, we find some talent to come in and make a difference. We need some pash rush like it's nobody's business. We need some swagger. We need some splash plays. We need a piece or two on the O-Line. We need a cpl pieces on the D. Obviously.

Don't get me wrong, I was and will (hopefully) always root like a mother fucker for this team. But, when shit flags with sometimes no explanations (see Dallas gsme) happen and the direction of this league I find myself giving less a fuck year after year. I realize we can't win a Lombardi every year but I root like we will.

On Monday, my wife's best friend since high school will have part of her colon and intestines removed. Two weeks ago they found cancer while doing a colonoscopy. She's 32. She has 2 children. There are bigger things in life.

Go Steelers.

Let's go draft and FA!

[Legacy User]

AB was in for all 75 offensive snaps, Bryant for 63 and Wheaton for 50. I was assuming that whenever DHB was in, that the other three were in as well, that he was ONLY used when four wides were on the field. Now granted, I've only come across one fuckin' instance, but that's one fuckin' instance too many. After Ben was sacked on 1st down from the Baltimore 10 in 2Q, next play, the WR contingent was AB, Bryant and mother-fuckin' DHB. Why?? I'm gonna look, see if I can spot other instances. WTF!!!

I don't have any numbers on it...and I didn't pay much attention until I thought Bryant should be seeing the #2 WR snaps...but I couldn't make rhyme or reason over the WR groupings at times. Imo Miller should have been in the inside slot on 4 WR- Moore is slow and can't get off the jam at all. Justin Brown blocks just as well as DHB and everyone knows Ben isn't throwing it to doink no matter how fast.

I have three big Haley complaints-

The management of RB touches

The WR groupings

The first half red zone failures- really it should be redefined- 33 to 10 is the red zone because that's a chip shot FG. 10 to TD is the win zone- because I've come to believe getting TDs from the 10 in might be the most difficult and critical part of the game. And it's where the QBs seperate themselves imo.

[jewelsongs]

I am pretty sure DHB was in so many snaps to go deep and force the Ravens to cover deep. they played most of the game with extra DBs, assuming Ben was going to have to pass. As a result of our inability to run the ball, this strategy was effective. If Lance Moore was in instead of DHB, the passing lanes would have been more crowded, given his lack of speed.

After watching a second time, my opinion is we lost the battle of the trenches on both sides of the ball, and lost because of that.

Maybe so.....at least six plays in the first half where DHB is one of three, or in one instance, two wides on the field.

I have to check, but I think Archer is also in on those plays. I am pretty sure they were trying to get him one on one with a linebacker. I will have to rewatch. It is pretty painful to watch this game again. I hate seeing Harbaugh smile.

[swissvale72]

I am pretty sure DHB was in so many snaps to go deep and force the Ravens to cover deep. they played most of the game with extra DBs, assuming Ben was going to have to pass. As a result of our inability to run the ball, this strategy was effective. If Lance Moore was in instead of DHB, the passing lanes would have been more crowded, given his lack of speed.

After watching a second time, my opinion is we lost the battle of the trenches on both sides of the ball, and lost because of that.

Maybe so.....at least six plays in the first half where DHB is one of three, or in one instance, two wides on the field.

I have to check, but I think Archer is also in on those plays. I am pretty sure they were trying to get him one on one with a linebacker. I will have to rewatch. It is pretty painful to watch this game again. I hate seeing Harbaugh smile.

Maybe one of those plays, that's about it....typically, Heath was in, as well as Tate or Harris.

[jewelsongs]

Then I agree it doesn't make sense.

[Havoc]

The team is fast and easily pushed over by the toughs. They are soft.

In a nutshell this comment/opinion is exactly right. We ARE soft. Our O line got bitch slapped plain and simple. Just like we used to do in the past. Our D line is young, but still not close to being dominant. We have em at 3rd and long over and over and over and cant get of the field. We cant run the ball for a half yard on 3rd and and a half over and over. WE ARE SOFT. I remember the days when we owned the LOS, not anymore.

The ravens play football, the way that football should be played. They nearly pulled off the win in foxborough yesterday... it was an impressive performance for the most part.

The ravens were a top 10 team in points per drive on both offense and defense. We were 25th in defense points per drive.

Bell adds a physicality to this offense in the passing game that we sorely missed.