Cheating or Smart?

[Steelafan77]

I don't want any asterisks over any of the Steelers Championships. I just want a head coach that wants it more than his adversaries do. That's the part of belicheat I respect as a competitor. And Tomlin seems to find a way to prove he just doesn't want it more. Disappointing and infuriating at the same time.

[Legacy User]

I think Belicheat is an extreme competitor and looks for any and all advantages big or small legal or illegal. A true competitor. Is he a low life POS? I don't know him personally so I can't say. I know what he does he does from a passionate, competitive mentality and I respect that. Do I like it when he does it to my team? Nope. It's up to the Steeler brain trust to compete with the belicheat's of the football world at their level. They have all failed to do so to date.

The reason people cheat is because they're afraid they can't match up on a level field. Bellicheck failed as a head coach horribly. He did nothing of note in the NFL until an equally unctuous owner gave him the freedom and support to get his hands dirty.

Kraft and bellicheck got lucky Brady fell in their lap. Otherwise they'd be second rate a holes and bellicheck probably wouldn't have lasted 3 seasons like his previous gigs.

You look around the NFL lots of guys are passionate and compete. Take harbaugh I think he's a giant asshole but he doesn't outright go outside the rules. You can be smart. You can look for advantages. You can passionate. What bellicheck is not those respectable things. He's got a different angle. His angle is his small self, and that's it.

[Steeldrama]

Good topic here Suwanne.

The Pats history of cheating and thumbing their nose at Goodell and the NFL is more arrogance than intelligence but make no mistake Belichick is no dummy. No doubt the communication "malfunction" had a Sun Tzu, Art of War, kind of feel to it. "If your opponent is of choleric temper seek to irritate him."

If this latest incident hadn't occurred against my intellectually challenged Steelers, I probably would've been more amused by it.

[Kodiak]

Kraft and bellicheck got lucky Brady fell in their lap. Otherwise they'd be second rate a holes and bellicheck probably wouldn't have lasted 3 seasons like his previous gigs.

I'm not convinced any QB with a decent arm wouldn't excel in NE's system, maybe not quite to the level of Brady but, well, Cassel did pretty well.

What always amazes me is how open NE's guys are. They can plug-in just about anyone and most of Brady's completions are still easy pitch-and-catch. But given their history of cheating we really have to stop saying "why can't we do it like NE?". I don't think it's Brady, I think there's some illegal "secret sauce" that prevents other teams from replicating what NE does in a copycat league.

[Kodiak]

As for pissing on the spirit of the rules, that might be easy to say as a fan but to players and coaches that's truly classless and un-sporting. Say you don't catch me cheating at cards, so that makes you a sucker? No, a game of strategy is no longer a game and/or about strategy when you need to devote energy to catching cheating. Devoting resources to do that would be an inherent disadvantage IF people weren't cheating.

Same reason PED's are banned in sports - for starters, with things like the Olympics and Cycling you can't have a level playing field because not everyone has access/money to the best drugs.

And in football, once you allow the videotaping of signals, it becomes a slippery slope to bugging locker rooms, jamming radios, mic'ing players, etc... I'm sure the NE cheating is more extensive than anyone can imagine, because once Belicheat crossed that line there's really no limit to what he'd ultimately pursue.

[Legacy User]

Kraft and bellicheck got lucky Brady fell in their lap. Otherwise they'd be second rate a holes and bellicheck probably wouldn't have lasted 3 seasons like his previous gigs.

I'm not convinced any QB with a decent arm wouldn't excel in NE's system, maybe not quite to the level of Brady but, well, Cassel did pretty well.

What always amazes me is how open NE's guys are. They can plug-in just about anyone and most of Brady's completions are still easy pitch-and-catch. But given their history of cheating we really have to stop saying "why can't we do it like NE?". I don't think it's Brady, I think there's some illegal "secret sauce" that prevents other teams from replicating what NE does in a copycat league.

We'll never know. Some say every single trophy they got is tainted. Some say none are. I kind of believe they probably earned about 2.

There are mainstream writers who have called for titles being vacated. Forget the NFL and even ESPN the majority opinion is some shit is up with them.

[Kodiak]

We'll never know. Some say every single trophy they got is tainted. Some say none are. I kind of believe they probably earned about 2.

I think they all are tainted. That first one that team really had no business beating STL, come to find out they taped the walk thru. Once Belicheat found success cheating he was only emboldened to cheat more.

And, you see, if you can get away with cheating and win a SB, then you can say "see, we won ***without cheating*** which proves cheating isn't why we won those others". In some respects, the incentive to cheat becomes greater and greater the more people think your titles are tainted...because the only way to "validate" those titles is to win another, but you don't know how to win without cheating.

[Legacy User]

Theres gamesmanship... ......and theres cheating

gamesmanship is the dl shift offsides call at the 1

The Cheats have stolen playbooks
Videotaped practices
Video taped live games and synced up play calls
Wired players
Deflated footballs
Bugged lockerrooms
Etc etc etc

and outside of a few pennies....zero punishment....

Anyone who thinks theyve ever not done it or stopped....is a moron
Anyone who thinks that isnt a HUGE advantage....is a moron

gamesmanship is fine....cheating needs severe punishment

no home games for a year .....forfiet entire drafts....vacate lombardis....100 million dollar fines

Robert Kraft is worth 4.3 Billion.....you think he gives a fuck about even a million dollar fine?....he wipes his ass with that kind of money....i bet hes liquid for at least
1B

Most of you probably dont have 100k in the bank.....if you did....would a 10 000 dollar fine be a huge deal ?....i dont think so....it wouldnt for me anyway

to hit krafty at that same level.....youd have to fine him over 100 million dollars...lol

this fucking business criminal prick sued the nfl and paid off a judge because his qb likes soft balls

hed fucking NEVER PAY 100 million

all the other owners....including the business criminal prick rooneys...are exactly the same...they dont really give a fuck anyway

[stinger8]

Theres gamesmanship... ......and theres cheating

gamesmanship is the dl shift offsides call at the 1

The Cheats have stolen playbooks
Videotaped practices
Video taped live games and synced up play calls
Wired players
Deflated footballs
Bugged lockerrooms
Etc etc etc

and outside of a few pennies....zero punishment....

Anyone who thinks theyve ever not done it or stopped....is a moron
Anyone who thinks that isnt a HUGE advantage....is a moron

gamesmanship is fine....cheating needs severe punishment

no home games for a year .....forfiet entire drafts....vacate lombardis....100 million dollar fines

Robert Kraft is worth 4.3 Billion.....you think he gives a fuck about even a million dollar fine?....he wipes his ass with that kind of money....i bet hes liquid for at least
1B

Most of you probably dont have 100k in the bank.....if you did....would a 10 000 dollar fine be a huge deal ?....i dont think so....it wouldnt for me anyway

to hit krafty at that same level.....youd have to fine him over 100 million dollars...lol

this fucking business criminal prick sued the nfl and paid off a judge because his qb likes soft balls

hed fucking NEVER PAY 100 million

all the other owners....including the business criminal prick rooneys...are exactly the same...they dont really give a fuck anyway

Just as an aside on the fine proportionately to your salary/net worth. A Toronto Maple Leaf, Leo Komorov got fined (working from memory) $40,000 for two speeding tickets where he was doing 40 kms/hr(25 MPH) over the speed limit in Finland. In Finland they fine based on your salary so it hurts. At first I was $40K for a small speeding violation, but the more I thought about it the more sense it made. If the fine does not HURT somewhat what is the motivation for the miscreant to change??

[drmalba]

I'm old enough to remember there *was* a time when we were all over stuff like this. When we had an offense run by the aptly-named Mike Mularkey...

http://articles.chicagotribune.com/2001-12-16/sports/0112160235_1_deception-fakes-trickery

To me these types of things are effective in two ways - (1) they annoy the shit out of opposing fans, and opposing defenses. (2) they show imagination in defeating defenses. If you want to take the worn out football-as-chess metaphor, this is the "en passant. "

I will put the Patriots' pre-snap subsitutions against the Ravens last year in the same category. To me, if you're clearing it with the officials and you're working within the rules, its fair game and every offense SHOULD be looking for those types of angles. Lots of fans will call this "cheating" and I empathize a tiny bit, but its not in the same category as the alleged off-the-field stuff the Patriots stand accused of. I think its gamesmanship and we damn well better be ready for it, otherwise the only legitimate reaction is to be pissed that you WEREN'T prepared for it when it inevitably came.

[jeemie]

I'm old enough to remember there *was* a time when we were all over stuff like this. When we had an offense run by the aptly-named Mike Mularkey...

http://articles.chicagotribune.com/2001-12-16/sports/0112160235_1_deception-fakes-trickery

To me these types of things are effective in two ways - (1) they annoy the shit out of opposing fans, and opposing defenses. (2) they show imagination in defeating defenses. If you want to take the worn out football-as-chess metaphor, this is the "en passant. "

I will put the Patriots' pre-snap subsitutions against the Ravens last year in the same category. To me, if you're clearing it with the officials and you're working within the rules, its fair game and every offense SHOULD be looking for those types of angles. Lots of fans will call this "cheating" and I empathize a tiny bit, but its not in the same category as the alleged off-the-field stuff the Patriots stand accused of. I think its gamesmanship and we damn well better be ready for it, otherwise the only legitimate reaction is to be pissed that you WEREN'T prepared for it when it inevitably came.

I hope the Steelers were because I sure was pissed off when I saw them say after the game that they knew from film study that the Patriots used that shift trick down at the goal line quite a bit, and yet they still fell for it.

[Legacy User]

The pats' DL may have been barking signals which was an added treat.