Why is Archer still on this team?

[lifelongsteel]

It's easier for me to understand why he's on the team than it is for me to understand why we have another "Why is Archer still on this team" thread

I kid. I kid

Archer is our 31st biggest issue. For the most part he's been a positive contributor as a kickoff returner.

I don't know why this is such a worrisome problem

btw - many here like to claim that Archer is still on the team because he's a 3rd round pick. Maybe. But it's also possible that the only reason most of you complain is that he was a 3rd round pick. If he was a 7th rounder you would be fine with him as a player.

[randomsteelerfan]

It means if I guy was a stud in college but he sucks giant balls in the NFL, he just sucks. End of story.

Cody simply stated that he liked the pick as the guy was a stud in college. That's all anyone can really ask. He's not stating that he should remain on the team because he kicked ass in college. COR-TEN then made some weird point slighting the MAC conference which I responded to.

We all agree, the guy is a waste of a roster spot. End of story.

[jeemie]

It's easier for me to understand why he's on the team than it is for me to understand why we have another "Why is Archer still on this team" thread

I kid. I kid

Archer is our 31st biggest issue. For the most part he's been a positive contributor as a kickoff returner.

I don't know why this is such a worrisome problem

btw - many here like to claim that Archer is still on the team because he's a 3rd round pick. Maybe. But it's also possible that the only reason most of you complain is that he was a 3rd round pick. If he was a 7th rounder you would be fine with him as a player.

It's an issue because on a team with depth problems at certain positions, the roster spot could be better utilized.

[lifelongsteel]

It's easier for me to understand why he's on the team than it is for me to understand why we have another "Why is Archer still on this team" thread

I kid. I kid

Archer is our 31st biggest issue. For the most part he's been a positive contributor as a kickoff returner.

I don't know why this is such a worrisome problem

btw - many here like to claim that Archer is still on the team because he's a 3rd round pick. Maybe. But it's also possible that the only reason most of you complain is that he was a 3rd round pick. If he was a 7th rounder you would be fine with him as a player.

It's an issue because on a team with depth problems at certain positions, the roster spot could be better utilized.

meh

maybe. maybe not. it's always a close call with the bottom of the roster. but it is after all the bottom of the roster we are talking about. which is really the theme of my post above. this is not an issue of any significance

[Orangesteel]

It's easier for me to understand why he's on the team than it is for me to understand why we have another "Why is Archer still on this team" thread

I kid. I kid

Archer is our 31st biggest issue. For the most part he's been a positive contributor as a kickoff returner.

I don't know why this is such a worrisome problem

btw - many here like to claim that Archer is still on the team because he's a 3rd round pick. Maybe. But it's also possible that the only reason most of you complain is that he was a 3rd round pick. If he was a 7th rounder you would be fine with him as a player.

Disagree with all of this.

[FortyThree]

It's easier for me to understand why he's on the team than it is for me to understand why we have another "Why is Archer still on this team" thread

I kid. I kid

Archer is our 31st biggest issue. For the most part he's been a positive contributor as a kickoff returner.

I don't know why this is such a worrisome problem

btw - many here like to claim that Archer is still on the team because he's a 3rd round pick. Maybe. But it's also possible that the only reason most of you complain is that he was a 3rd round pick. If he was a 7th rounder you would be fine with him as a player.

It's an issue because on a team with depth problems at certain positions, the roster spot could be better utilized.

Look at their official depth chart on offense. So many third-string players.

Then look at the defense. Almost zero third-string.

There is no way Dri is so important to the success of the team that they couldn't cut him and keep an extra d-lineman or something.

[jeemie]

maybe. maybe not. it's always a close call with the bottom of the roster. but it is after all the bottom of the roster we are talking about. which is really the theme of my post above. this is not an issue of any significance

Is it?

We've had games where we were one more player away from having to use a TE as an O-lineman and games where Tuitt and Heyward had to play to exhaustion.

We let go of promising young guys who while they might not help right now, may become starters of the future if they stayed with us. Some have gone on to start with other teams.

if it was a matter of we had productive depth all along our roster and had to make a difficult choice, that's one thing.

But when it's choosing to jettison a potential nice young player to hold onto a guy that does nothing for us- literally, nothing- then it's a problem.

Archer doesn't play on the offense anymore.

By and large, his job is to watch kickoffs sail into the end zone and touch them back.

Give his spot to someone who might grow into a player one day.

[lifelongsteel]

It's easier for me to understand why he's on the team than it is for me to understand why we have another "Why is Archer still on this team" thread

I kid. I kid

Archer is our 31st biggest issue. For the most part he's been a positive contributor as a kickoff returner.

I don't know why this is such a worrisome problem

btw - many here like to claim that Archer is still on the team because he's a 3rd round pick. Maybe. But it's also possible that the only reason most of you complain is that he was a 3rd round pick. If he was a 7th rounder you would be fine with him as a player.

Disagree with all of this.

Do you feel that we would have won more games this year if Archer wasn't on the roster?

If your answer is yes you'll probably want to do some explaining.

[jeemie]

Do you feel that we would have won more games this year if Archer wasn't on the roster?

If your answer is yes you'll probably want to do some explaining.

Bottom of the roster is about present and future.

Archer contributes to neither.

[lifelongsteel]

It's easier for me to understand why he's on the team than it is for me to understand why we have another "Why is Archer still on this team" thread

I kid. I kid

Archer is our 31st biggest issue. For the most part he's been a positive contributor as a kickoff returner.

I don't know why this is such a worrisome problem

btw - many here like to claim that Archer is still on the team because he's a 3rd round pick. Maybe. But it's also possible that the only reason most of you complain is that he was a 3rd round pick. If he was a 7th rounder you would be fine with him as a player.

It's an issue because on a team with depth problems at certain positions, the roster spot could be better utilized.

Look at their official depth chart on offense. So many third-string players.

Then look at the defense. Almost zero third-string.

There is no way Dri is so important to the success of the team that they couldn't cut him and keep an extra d-lineman or something.

Maybe . . . but we're still talking about the margins here.

[jeemie]

Maybe . . . but we're still talking about the margins here.

When you're 100% focused on the present...yes.

When you look at players at the bottom of the roster as potential future starters...no.

Tell me you think Dri Archer has the potential to develop into something, and make it a good reason...then we'll talk.

Until then...he contributes nothing towards the present OR the future.

Jordan Toddman came in off the street and jumped over him in the depth chart.

[Orangesteel]

I support what forty three wrote. Would they have lost more games without Archer? Not sure. Would they have won more games with someone else? Maybe.

Archers longest return is 38 yards. That figure includes the yardage he gains running out of the endzone. I can't find it right now but I would like to get the statistic about how many kicks he's returned where he doesn't get to the 20. That hurts this team, not sure how you can argue otherwise.

Archer lacks 3 things that some might say are pertinent to being a good kick returner: speed, vision, moves. Letting Wheaton return kicks, at least we get moves and speed. And he's already the 3rd string WR. So as forty three said; cut archer and bring on someone that will actually ADD to this team's success. Archer adds nothing.

[lifelongsteel]

I come not to praise Archer. I am not claiming that he is critical to the teams success. I am not promising that he will be a player in the future.

I am simply saying that Archer, like most bottom of the roster guys, has so far this season had minimal to no impact on our winning/losing games. He's had some really good returns. he's had some average returns. he's made some bad choices. he's currently a middle of the league KR. Get back to me when he fumbles or takes one to the house.

in regards to replacing his roster spot with another DL, I am more worried about the fact that our 5th/6th DL can't play than I am about adding a 7th DL.

[Orangesteel]

Ok, I think we agree on that point. I'm going to throw more shit on our coaches. There are teams all over the league that expect positive contributions from their bottom of the roster guys. Perhaps this is what FC is getting at when he says the Steelers might have the worst scouting department in the league.

A legit kick returner can blow a game open. Seattle might be 1-7 if they didn't have Tyler Lockette. I personally think Wheaton can be that guy. Shame the coaches and Colbert are so hell bent on saving face regarding the elf on the shelf.

[Kodiak]

Archer taking KO's 8-yds deep in the EZ out to the 15 isn't doing shit for this team. In fact, it's hurting them. Plus the simple fact no one has seen anything to give us confidence he's going to bust one loose.

If you were to look at who we've had returning KO's in recent years you'd have to conclude either Tomlin doesn't value that aspect of the game at all, or that he absolutely sucks at identifying people with a sliver of talent to return kicks.

[jeemie]

Besides, Lifelong, in a league where, except for some outliers, everyone trends towards 8-8, and the last playoff spots are decided by one game, even marginal improvements can have great effect.

For instance, on Sunday, the Bengals' last kickoff came down only one yard deep in the end zone.

Suppose we had a guy who had big return potential? Think a big return, even out to, say, the 40 yard line or so, might have helped?

[955876]

it's also possible that the only reason most of you complain is that he was a 3rd round pick. If he was a 7th rounder you would be fine with him as a player.

If he was a 7th rounder he would have either (a) been cut, (b) cut and signed to practice squad, or (c) on the team but inactive on game day.

No way he gets a hat on Sunday's had he been a 7th rounder.

Someone lobbied for that pick and is still trying to be right.

If he was a 7th rounder maybe a guy like Josh Mauro is coming off the bench to spell our DEs instead of getting zilch from Archer.

He's a "RB" who can't possibly be expected to log significant carries as a RB. There is also the issue of having to take a better player off the field to put Archer on the field.

The entire situation is a microcosm of what ails this team.

It really can't be debated.

[lifelongsteel]

it's also possible that the only reason most of you complain is that he was a 3rd round pick. If he was a 7th rounder you would be fine with him as a player.

If he was a 7th rounder he would have either (a) been cut, (b) cut and signed to practice squad, or (c) on the team but inactive on game day.

No way he gets a hat on Sunday's had he been a 7th rounder.

Someone lobbied for that pick and is still trying to be right.

If he was a 7th rounder maybe a guy like Josh Mauro is coming off the bench to spell our DEs instead of getting zilch from Archer.

He's a "RB" who can't possibly be expected to log significant carries as a RB. There is also the issue of having to take a better player off the field to put Archer on the field.

The entire situation is a microcosm of what ails this team.

It really can't be debated.

I'll debate it, as it's a myth that players get special treatment based on draft position. Want some examples:
- Beachum was given the job over Adams.
- Antwon Blake was given the job over any number of drafted players and even a player we traded a 4th for
- Shamarko Thomas rides the pine

I could do this all day

[lifelongsteel]

Besides, Lifelong, in a league where, except for some outliers, everyone trends towards 8-8, and the last playoff spots are decided by one game, even marginal improvements can have great effect.

For instance, on Sunday, the Bengals' last kickoff came down only one yard deep in the end zone.

Suppose we had a guy who had big return potential? Think a big return, even out to, say, the 40 yard line or so, might have helped?

So why not use the examples of when Archer did have good returns? Or look at the blocking on this specific return?

I get it. You hate the guy.

[Orangesteel]

Ok, can you do the same with players that aren't as good as their earlier drafted counter parts?

Beechum is better than Adams

Blake is better than Cortez

Shamarko is...Shamarko.

[lifelongsteel]

Ok, can you do the same with players that aren't as good as their earlier drafted counter parts?

Beechum is better than Adams

Blake is better than Cortez

Shamarko is...Shamarko.

why would they play a guy who is both worse and drafted later?

my belief is that they play the guys that give them the best chance to win this years super bowl, which usually means playing the guys who give them the best chance to win each game. in my mind they have a clear track record of doing this. why on earth would they change their whole philosophy for Dri f'ing Archer.

It's simple. They think he's their best KO returner. If they didn't he wouldn't be doing it.

[955876]

it's also possible that the only reason most of you complain is that he was a 3rd round pick. If he was a 7th rounder you would be fine with him as a player.

If he was a 7th rounder he would have either (a) been cut, (b) cut and signed to practice squad, or (c) on the team but inactive on game day.

No way he gets a hat on Sunday's had he been a 7th rounder.

Someone lobbied for that pick and is still trying to be right.

If he was a 7th rounder maybe a guy like Josh Mauro is coming off the bench to spell our DEs instead of getting zilch from Archer.

He's a "RB" who can't possibly be expected to log significant carries as a RB. There is also the issue of having to take a better player off the field to put Archer on the field.

The entire situation is a microcosm of what ails this team.

It really can't be debated.

I'll debate it, as it's a myth that players get special treatment based on draft position. Want some examples:
- Beachum was given the job over Adams.
- Antwon Blake was given the job over any number of drafted players and even a player we traded a 4th for
- Shamarko Thomas rides the pine

I could do this all day

Adams & Thomas played their way out of jobs. Adams has also been very unreliable in terms of physically being able to play.

Beachum busted his ass and and when given a shot he performed.

Archer has shown nothing and cannot serve as a starter at RB which means he is not even a capable "back-up".

All he is at this point is a kick returner in a league where most kicks are touch backs. He is also no better than our options we have to return kicks.

It comes down to roster composition and our failures to round out the bottom of the roster adequately is why we are so thin at key areas.

We can agree to disagree but but the prof is what we've been putting on tape and that tape doesn't lie.

Poor roster composition has lost this team games and ended seasons.

We had to pull a guy off the street before a freaking playoff game last year because our back-up running back isn't capable of being a back-up RB...

What does that tell you?

[Orangesteel]

why would they play a guy who is both worse and drafted later?

my belief is that they play the guys that give them the best chance to win this years super bowl, which usually means playing the guys who give them the best chance to win each game. in my mind they have a clear track record of doing this. why on earth would they change their whole philosophy for Dri f'ing Archer.

It's simple. They think he's their best KO returner. If they didn't he wouldn't be doing it.

Which makes my point. The coaches are idiots. I refuse to believe that archer is a better kick returner than Marcus Wheaton.

[jeemie]

So why not use the examples of when Archer did have good returns? Or look at the blocking on this specific return?

I get it. You hate the guy.

He's had one good kickoff return.

On average he's gotten us about 6 extra yards of FP over a touchback.

He's not looked impressive even on his good returns- he looks slow with absolutely no vision or wiggle ability.

The Eye in the Sky gives me more information than mere stats.

I agree the blocking has also not been so good (the Eye tells me that, too)...but Archer brings nothing extra to the table in the return department either.

And the topper- Tomlin did not trust Archer to return a kick out of the end zone late in the game with the Steelers needing a TD.

Contrast that to a couple of years agon when he let Emmanuel Sanders take one out of the end zone against the Ravens and made a point to say he did so because he believed "Emmanuel could give us a spark". That spark enabled the Steelers to drive for the winning FG.

If we seem to harp on it, it's because Dri Archer is a nice representative of the useless player. His own coaches don't trust him to do anything for them to help win games. Yet they keep him around.

It's mindless.

[Orangesteel]

So why not use the examples of when Archer did have good returns? Or look at the blocking on this specific return?

I get it. You hate the guy.

He's had one good kickoff return.

On average he's gotten us about 6 extra yards of FP over a touchback.

He's not looked impressive even on his good returns- he looks slow with absolutely no vision or wiggle ability.

The Eye in the Sky gives me more information than mere stats.

I agree the blocking has also not been so good (the Eye tells me that, too)...but Archer brings nothing extra to the table in the return department either.

And the topper- Tomlin did not trust Archer to return a kick out of the end zone late in the game with the Steelers needing a TD.

Contrast that to a couple of years agon when he let Emmanuel Sanders take one out of the end zone against the Ravens and made a point to say he did so because he believed "Emmanuel could give us a spark". That spark enabled the Steelers to drive for the winning FG.

If we seem to harp on it, it's because Dri Archer is a nice representative of the useless player. His own coaches don't trust him to do anything for them to help win games. Yet they keep him around.

It's mindless.

Contrast that with the MNF game. Pagano trusted their KR to take it out of the endzone for their last shot to tie. Takes it 45 yards to midfield; 2 minutes later they are on the 4 yard line with a chance to win.

Tomlin to Archer: "Don't you dare."

[jeemie]

Contrast that with the MNF game. Pagano trusted their KR to take it out of the endzone for their last shot to tie. Takes it 45 yards to midfield; 2 minutes later they are on the 4 yard line with a chance to win.

Tomlin to Archer: "Don't you dare."

Those dumb Colts. They used up all their timeouts before the two minute warning as well.

[Orangesteel]

Contrast that with the MNF game. Pagano trusted their KR to take it out of the endzone for their last shot to tie. Takes it 45 yards to midfield; 2 minutes later they are on the 4 yard line with a chance to win.

Tomlin to Archer: "Don't you dare."

Those dumb Colts. They used up all their timeouts before the two minute warning as well.

Ha.

[bradshaw2ben]

Archer has not averaged getting us 6 yards + of field position. I believe you are confusing his return avg with where he gets us to on the field. If he starts returns from 5 yards deep, he might have gotten us an avg of 1 yard FP.

[jeemie]

Archer has not averaged getting us 6 yards + of field position. I believe you are confusing his return avg with where he gets us to on the field. If he starts returns from 5 yards deep, he might have gotten us an avg of 1 yard FP.

True- thanks for catching that.

BTW, of the 16 players that qualify for kickoff return leader status, Dri Archer is now 10th.

And his longest return is the shortest of any of the top 16.

I wonder if anyone does track the average FP a kick returner gives his team?

[bradshaw2ben]

15 yd return to 10 yard line
19 yard return to the 16

for example.