Football Life: Chuck Noll

[swissvale72]

Tomlin's no Noll; he's more like Cowher, actually....buddies with the players. This works for Tomlin in alot of ways. Noll....no way would AB have three excessive celebration penalties this season if Chuck Noll was the Head Coach.

[Drummer Boy]

Tomlin's no Noll; he's more like Cowher, actually....buddies with the players. This works for Tomlin in alot of ways. Noll....no way would AB have three excessive celebration penalties this season if Chuck Noll was the Head Coach.

Maybe not. But Noll let Joe Greene get away with murder, and if hadn't who knows how few SB trophies we'd have.

That said, eventually Greene got the message. Tomlin must get Brown and Bell to do the same.

[Legacy User]

Tomlin's no Noll; he's more like Cowher, actually....buddies with the players. This works for Tomlin in alot of ways. Noll....no way would AB have three excessive celebration penalties this season if Chuck Noll was the Head Coach.

7gree 100%...im not historian of 70s..but I watched the 70s teams...hard to imagine celebration fouls would be ok..brown just never stops..i don't know the solution..but to hurt team every time is beyond dumb.

[Legacy User]

Tomlin's no Noll; he's more like Cowher, actually....buddies with the players. This works for Tomlin in alot of ways. Noll....no way would AB have three excessive celebration penalties this season if Chuck Noll was the Head Coach.

Maybe not. But Noll let Joe Greene get away with murder, and if hadn't who knows how few SB trophies we'd have.

That said, eventually Greene got the message. Tomlin must get Brown and Bell to do the same.

say what? what did greene get awy with? I'm calling bullsit..

[Legacy User]

A few points from my perspective..


Tomlin aint no Noll in any way shape or form. I also don't think Tomlin is a Cowher.

As for drafting AB, and this goes for any late draft choice, these are more flukes than anything else, If Tomlin
or any other scout thought AB would be anywhere remotely this good, they wouldn't have waited til the 6 th rnd to choose him, he would have been a 1st rnd draft choice right??? Where the talent evaluators really make their coin is in the 1st couple rnds maybe 3 max.

[swissvale72]

Tomlin's no Noll; he's more like Cowher, actually....buddies with the players. This works for Tomlin in alot of ways. Noll....no way would AB have three excessive celebration penalties this season if Chuck Noll was the Head Coach.

Maybe not. But Noll let Joe Greene get away with murder, and if hadn't who knows how few SB trophies we'd have.

That said, eventually Greene got the message. Tomlin must get Brown and Bell to do the same.

say what? what did greene get awy with? I'm calling bullsit..

It's true.
*Joe Greene's rookie year, he got kicked out of three games, I believe, could've been more.
*He walked off the field in Philly his 2nd year, picked up the ball from the line of scrimmage, heaved it into the stands
*He kicked Jim Vellone of the Vikings in the balls, punched Paul Howard of the Broncos in the stomach during a playoff game, had a fight of some renown with the Browns as well.

It's true....Noll didn't exactly rein in Joe Greene.

The Joe Greene stories are freakin 'epic. The way he picked up Ray Mansfield and manhandled him during his first practice, all the Steeler vets figuring the Old Ranger would teach the rookie a lesson. My personal fave was during Mean Joe's high school days. His team loses, he encounters the winning, visiting team at a diner following the game. Mean Joe shoves an ice cream cone in the opposing QBs face. On the way out, someone from the visiting bus throws something at Mean Joe. Mean Joe, alone, boards that bus. The entire opposing team exits the bus out the back door.

Joe Greene was a fuckin' uncontrolled badass.

[bradshaw2ben]

Tomlin's no Noll; he's more like Cowher, actually....buddies with the players. This works for Tomlin in alot of ways. Noll....no way would AB have three excessive celebration penalties this season if Chuck Noll was the Head Coach.

You can't say that for sure-- different era. Even the disciplinarian coaches that bridged eras adjusted.

Also, Tomlin's similarity is as a type of person.

[bradshaw2ben]

With All Due Respect...Where I fully disagree with your post B2B is, "that his main strengths were as a talent evaluator, both in players and assistant coaches." Tomlin is nowhere near the evaluator Noll was. Also, "He was very good at understanding the nuts and bolts of his offense, defense, and special teams" again, Tomlin is nowhere near Noll's expertise in that facet. I admit I felt a bit insulted that anyone let alone you would compare Tomlin to Noll. We can agree to disagree about these couple comparisons.

you blew past my point.

I didn't say Tomlin was the coaching talent Noll was, I said he was the closest in type to a Noll coach.

However, to yours... Noll also didn't pull many HOF WRs from round 6 or have to deal with free agency or guys walking away from the game in their prime because of concussion or lifestyle issues. Also, you have zero idea of how nuts and bolts Tomlin is with techniques or details. In 15-20 years, when his players are talking about his HOF induction and what it was like to play for him, we'll just as likely hear more stories like John Lynch had about his attention to detail and technique and teaching and fundamentals.

Sounds like you're saying Tomlin is responsible for drafting Antonio Brown rather than Colbert and his scouting department. Ok I'll play. Thats one future HOFer for Tomlin.
Nolls turn. Your rules B2B. Noll like lee Harvey Oswald acted alone and drafted 11 that's ...11 HOF players without any help from bill nunn, Art Jr. or any other scouts. Oh and he himself is in the HOF.
So Tomlin in his first decade=AB
Noll in his first decade=mean joe, Blount, ham, lambert, Bradshaw, Franco, Webster, stallworth, Swann. Then a decade later Rod Woodson and dirt Dawson.

B2b I get tomlin is your guy and you're just trying pay him a complement but any comparison to Chuck Noll is really stretching it especially given Noll built his team from scratch after decades of losing while Tomlin inherited a franchise quarterback and championship caliber defense.

Drama-- I know you can read the whole bread. Inoll and his FO were the best drafting organization in he history of sport. I responded to the allegation Tombert have "no eye for talent". I also said Tomlin is similar in style as a person and in some top level ways as a coach... but the hate here is too strong for anyone to grasp my point.

[Steeldrama]

B2B I don't hate Tomlin but don't revere him either. I'm 45 so I'm not a Noll expert but I have seen every game Tomlin has coached the Steelers and it's my opinion youre siting a singular trait that YOU see in Tomlin and are using it to compare at best an above average NFL coach to arguably the greatest coach in NFL history. I just don't agree that Tomlins name should be in the same thread as chuck noll let alone called by you the closest Nfl coach that compares to Noll. Over Bill Belichick? A noted teacher who also happens to own 4 Lombardis. You're entitled to your strong opinions of Tomlin I just don't share them especially as they relate to finding talent

[Steelafan77]

I'm sure he's a great dude. Perhaps even someone you'd be comfortable having a brew or two with regardless of celebrity status. I don't hate the man... I hate the coaching strategy. I hate the same old lackadaisical approach game prep. I hate the unresolved problems that rear their ugly heads season after season while Ben's SB window shrinks. I hate what Tomlin allows to unfold on game day. Poor preparation, Poor execution, showboating and the infuriating underachievement. I do understand the other guys get paid too. I hate that Tomlin refuses to take accountability for the shit show(s) when playing the -.500 teams of the league. Blaming everyone else but himself. Terrible leader traits. I'm disgusted and embarrassed by this status quo bullshit. Tired of the wordsmithing and quick wit mumbo jumbo bullshit. Tired of watching this team struggle to get past their own self inflicted dysfunction. Tired of watching them having to rely on other teams to even make the postseason. If Tomlin doesn't have some of the current personnel at key positions he'd be a loser with a losing record. I believe he falls in the same category of the other struggling franchises currently in the league. Win some... Lose more. Until all that is cleaned up Tomlin as a coach can't be respected like some here would prefer. JMO

[swissvale72]

Tomlin's no Noll; he's more like Cowher, actually....buddies with the players. This works for Tomlin in alot of ways. Noll....no way would AB have three excessive celebration penalties this season if Chuck Noll was the Head Coach.

You can't say that for sure-- different era. Even the disciplinarian coaches that bridged eras adjusted.

Also, Tomlin's similarity is as a type of person.

Right....can't say for sure, but it seems that Tomlin's response to AB's bullshit has been one of Cost of Doing Business. He's said, "What do you want me to do? Bench him?" Tomlin needs to see this as potentially letting an opponent off the mat. His team just scores, prob in spectacular fashion re: AB...but then he's kicking off from the 20. Can't he fuckin' emphasize that there's NO orchestrated bullshit involving additional players.

[BethlehemSteel]

It's a fine line

[Drummer Boy]

I'm one of the bigger advocates of Tomlin on this board, but he's got to cut off the tandem celebration shit. Maybe point out to AB that he's got his commercials now (and darn funny ones, too); maybe now he can concentrate on not costing us a game. He needs to, because Bell appears to be too much of a knucklehead not to take part.

[bradshaw2ben]

Problem is: I don't think Bells participation was planned or orchestrated. I think you can-- and he undoubtedly does talk to them about it but these are not conceptual thinkers. You would have to list all of the things they are not allowed to do rather than saying; don't do that kind of thing ever again.

[bradshaw2ben]

B2B I don't hate Tomlin but don't revere him either. I'm 45 so I'm not a Noll expert but I have seen every game Tomlin has coached the Steelers and it's my opinion youre siting a singular trait that YOU see in Tomlin and are using it to compare at best an above average NFL coach to arguably the greatest coach in NFL history. I just don't agree that Tomlins name should be in the same thread as chuck noll let alone called by you the closest Nfl coach that compares to Noll. Over Bill Belichick? A noted teacher who also happens to own 4 Lombardis. You're entitled to your strong opinions of Tomlin I just don't share them especially as they relate to finding talent

To be clear, here is the point I am making:

Chuck Noll was more cerebral and erudite and well-rounded a person than most football coaches. So was Dungy, so is Tomlin. Tomlin might have more in common with those traits than any coach now-- possible exception of Belichick. I'm sure it influenced the coaching styles of both, and each-- even the all-time great Noll-- have strengths and weaknesses. Tomlin may never have the results Noll had but he's a better communicator... that's an obvious statement.

Aside from my original point, barring an incredible career collapse or walking away from the game should they not make it to the Super Bowl this year, Tomlin is a virtual lock to be either a HOF coach or at minimum a finalist for a few years. It's also obvious if you look at his career compared to other HOF coaches, his age, his situation here in Pittsburgh, and so on. He may never meet this board's expectations but his career is certainly on track for recognition when it's all said and done.

[Legacy User]

That said, eventually Greene got the message. Tomlin must get Brown and Bell to do the same.[/quote]
say what? what did greene get awy with? I'm calling bullsit..[/quote]

It's true.
*Joe Greene's rookie year, he got kicked out of three games, I believe, could've been more.
*He walked off the field in Philly his 2nd year, picked up the ball from the line of scrimmage, heaved it into the stands
*He kicked Jim Vellone of the Vikings in the balls, punched Paul Howard of the Broncos in the stomach during a playoff game, had a fight of some renown with the Browns as well.

It's true....Noll didn't exactly rein in Joe Greene.

The Joe Greene stories are freakin 'epic. The way he picked up Ray Mansfield and manhandled him during his first practice, all the Steeler vets figuring the Old Ranger would teach the rookie a lesson. My personal fave was during Mean Joe's high school days. His team loses, he encounters the winning, visiting team at a diner following the game. Mean Joe shoves an ice cream cone in the opposing QBs face. On the way out, someone from the visiting bus throws something at Mean Joe. Mean Joe, alone, boards that bus. The entire opposing team exits the bus out the back door.

Joe Greene was a fuckin' uncontrolled badass.[/quote]
oh yes..i agree joe got away with that stuff..but that's different then browns antics! mean joe was making a statement..creating fear in other teams. fear from his own guys to play harder. he was doing what chuck secretly wanted to do!! he got in heads of everyone.. and it was very effective..browns antics do nothing but draw flags and attention. personally think it makes him look like a tool..

[Legacy User]

Problem is: I don't think Bells participation was planned or orchestrated. I think you can-- and he undoubtedly does talk to them about it but these are not conceptual thinkers. You would have to list all of the things they are not allowed to do rather than saying; don't do that kind of thing ever again.

You mean that they dont spend their spare time at JPL? Say it ain't so!

[bradshaw2ben]

Problem is: I don't think Bells participation was planned or orchestrated. I think you can-- and he undoubtedly does talk to them about it but these are not conceptual thinkers. You would have to list all of the things they are not allowed to do rather than saying; don't do that kind of thing ever again.

You mean that they dont spend their spare time at JPL? Say it ain't so!

yeah, no kidding.

They just dapped. If that official was hip enough, he'd realized Bell and Brown basically just shook hands.

[jeemie]

Problem is: I don't think Bells participation was planned or orchestrated. I think you can-- and he undoubtedly does talk to them about it but these are not conceptual thinkers. You would have to list all of the things they are not allowed to do rather than saying; don't do that kind of thing ever again.

Come on, man...the players aren't dumb...they know they can't celebrate in tandem.

[Legacy User]

quote="SteelDrama"]

With All Due Respect...Where I fully disagree with your post B2B is, "that his main strengths were as a talent evaluator, both in players and assistant coaches." Tomlin is nowhere near the evaluator Noll was. Also, "He was very good at understanding the nuts and bolts of his offense, defense, and special teams" again, Tomlin is nowhere near Noll's expertise in that facet. I admit I felt a bit insulted that anyone let alone you would compare Tomlin to Noll. We can agree to disagree about these couple comparisons.

you blew past my point.

I didn't say Tomlin was the coaching talent Noll was, I said he was the closest in type to a Noll coach.

However, to yours... Noll also didn't pull many HOF WRs from round 6 or have to deal with free agency or guys walking away from the game in their prime because of concussion or lifestyle issues. Also, you have zero idea of how nuts and bolts Tomlin is with techniques or details. In 15-20 years, when his players are talking about his HOF induction and what it was like to play for him, we'll just as likely hear more stories like John Lynch had about his attention to detail and technique and teaching and fundamentals.

Sounds like you're saying Tomlin is responsible for drafting Antonio Brown rather than Colbert and his scouting department. Ok I'll play. Thats one future HOFer for Tomlin.
Nolls turn. Your rules B2B. Noll like lee Harvey Oswald acted alone and drafted 11 that's ...11 HOF players without any help from bill nunn, Art Jr. or any other scouts. Oh and he himself is in the HOF.
So Tomlin in his first decade=AB
Noll in his first decade=mean joe, Blount, ham, lambert, Bradshaw, Franco, Webster, stallworth, Swann. Then a decade later Rod Woodson and dirt Dawson.

B2b I get tomlin is your guy and you're just trying pay him a complement but any comparison to Chuck Noll is really stretching it especially given Noll built his team from scratch after decades of losing while Tomlin inherited a franchise quarterback and championship caliber defense.[/quote]
Drama-- I know you can read the whole bread. Inoll and his FO were the best drafting organization in he history of sport. I responded to the allegation Tombert have "no eye for talent". I also said Tomlin is similar in style as a person and in some top level ways as a coach... but the hate here is too strong for anyone to grasp my point.[/quote]



B2B, I don't hate Tomlin at all, I actually quite like him, I just think his message has become way past stale now, however I have to say when I think Tomlin, cerebral and erudite are probably the last 2 characteristics I would use to describe him, I have no idea where you see that in him. As far as talent evaluator, hes avg at best as far as players are concerned and hes a colossal fail where finding coaching talent is concerned.

[swissvale72]

B2B I don't hate Tomlin but don't revere him either. I'm 45 so I'm not a Noll expert but I have seen every game Tomlin has coached the Steelers and it's my opinion youre siting a singular trait that YOU see in Tomlin and are using it to compare at best an above average NFL coach to arguably the greatest coach in NFL history. I just don't agree that Tomlins name should be in the same thread as chuck noll let alone called by you the closest Nfl coach that compares to Noll. Over Bill Belichick? A noted teacher who also happens to own 4 Lombardis. You're entitled to your strong opinions of Tomlin I just don't share them especially as they relate to finding talent

To be clear, here is the point I am making:

Chuck Noll was more cerebral and erudite and well-rounded a person than most football coaches. So was Dungy, so is Tomlin. Tomlin might have more in common with those traits than any coach now-- possible exception of Belichick. I'm sure it influenced the coaching styles of both, and each-- even the all-time great Noll-- have strengths and weaknesses. Tomlin may never have the results Noll had but he's a better communicator... that's an obvious statement.

Aside from my original point, barring an incredible career collapse or walking away from the game should they not make it to the Super Bowl this year, Tomlin is a virtual lock to be either a HOF coach or at minimum a finalist for a few years. It's also obvious if you look at his career compared to other HOF coaches, his age, his situation here in Pittsburgh, and so on. He may never meet this board's expectations but his career is certainly on track for recognition when it's all said and done.

Couple things, B2B....

*It's real simple, and Jeems just stated it as well. We score, let the guy who scored celebrate alone until he gets to the fuckin' sideline.

*Having An Exceedingly Well-Developed Line of Bullshit does not make one a better communicator. Seems to me that through minimal words, looks, actions....Noll's communications to his players were quite clear, and more effective than the messages Tomlin conveys.

[Legacy User]

oh yes..i agree joe got away with that stuff..but that's different then browns antics! mean joe was making a statement..creating fear in other teams. fear from his own guys to play harder. he was doing what chuck secretly wanted to do!! he got in heads of everyone.. and it was very effective..browns antics do nothing but draw flags and attention. personally think it makes him look like a tool..

AB = Me, me, me
Mean Joe = We, we, we

[swissvale72]

oh yes..i agree joe got away with that stuff..but that's different then browns antics! mean joe was making a statement..creating fear in other teams. fear from his own guys to play harder. he was doing what chuck secretly wanted to do!! he got in heads of everyone.. and it was very effective..browns antics do nothing but draw flags and attention. personally think it makes him look like a tool..

AB = Me, me, me
Mean Joe = We, we, we

Great analysis, Splat!! Genius in the brevity.

[bradshaw2ben]

*Having An Exceedingly Well-Developed Line of Bullshit does not make one a better communicator. Seems to me that through minimal words, looks, actions....Noll's communications to his players were quite clear, and more effective than the messages Tomlin conveys.

If Noll's players can agree about one thing, it's that none of them understood anything Chuck had to say outside ofsome important things about fundamentals. Noll was an amazing teacher, but he was incredibly obtuse.

[swissvale72]

*Having An Exceedingly Well-Developed Line of Bullshit does not make one a better communicator. Seems to me that through minimal words, looks, actions....Noll's communications to his players were quite clear, and more effective than the messages Tomlin conveys.

If Noll's players can agree about one thing, it's that none of them understood anything Chuck had to say outside ofsome important things about fundamentals. Noll was an amazing teacher, but he was incredibly obtuse.

Somehow....Chuck Noll and obtuse don't seem to fit.

The stuff the players didn't understand, as Tunch described, was due to their having no exposure to Russian literature, some battle in Turkey, etc.

[bradshaw2ben]

not just that-- Noll often said stuff that was of the mixed metaphor variety...

but, let's face it: Noll was a one of a kind dude

[JackLambert58]

*Having An Exceedingly Well-Developed Line of Bullshit does not make one a better communicator. Seems to me that through minimal words, looks, actions....Noll's communications to his players were quite clear, and more effective than the messages Tomlin conveys.

If Noll's players can agree about one thing, it's that none of them understood anything Chuck had to say outside ofsome important things about fundamentals. Noll was an amazing teacher, but he was incredibly obtuse.

Somehow....Chuck Noll and obtuse don't seem to fit.

The stuff the players didn't understand, as Tunch described, was due to their having no exposure to Russian literature, some battle in Turkey, etc.

Oh shit! Don't tell me that the Emperor frequented the Back Bay for the Henry Wadsworth Longfellow readings!!!

[swissvale72]

not just that-- Noll often said stuff that was of the mixed metaphor variety...

but, let's face it: Noll was a one of a kind dude

I'll agree with you on that!!

[Drummer Boy]

"Obtuse" means slow-witted, which we can all agree Noll was definitely not! Maybe B2B meant something more like "opaque."

[swissvale72]

'58 wrote:
Oh shit! Don't tell me that the Emperor frequented the Back Bay for the Henry Wadsworth Longfellow readings!!! [/quote]

The Emperor would have been the one DELIVERING the Henry Wadsworth Longfellow readings in the Back Bay, '58!!