Slow your roll on Jesse James

[bradshaw2ben]

Nice try Boyardee


The "try hard white guy" is better athlete than Grimble or DJ. But I understand the bias that if you're white, you're automatically a try hard, lunch paler type.

If Green gets healthy he will be #1. I don't doubt it. But to infer that James won't even get a hat on game day is ludicrous and I'd bet my left nut the only people contemplating that is wannabe GM's on fanboards, not the coaches or FO.

Jesse James has at least 7 weeks to prove he can be a good enough blocker to be the #2 in this system. If he doesn't by the time Green gets a back, he might still get a hat but he's not going to see as many snaps. He'll be insurance against Green getting hurt. If he does at least show competent blocking, he may very well be the solid #2... but his pass catching alone is not going to get him as many looks.

[Legacy User]

eh ... I think its too early to say he cant develop to be a good blocker.
but I do see why the concern as in those clips its the technique and timidity that are concerning -- which may be a function of awkwardness in the block due to height??

Yep, not much different than the Ranger looking awkward blocking at LT. This has almost every week giving concern to some ppl about Villy’s blocking. The same will be a weekly refrain with JJ. When James's on the move I am never going to hold my breadth hoping that he looks pretty. Much like Plax never did. Both just have gangly bodies. Which is a huge RZ plus but will never look "pretty" when run blocking. It doesn't mean it isn't effective regardless as to what PFF or depot says.

People thinking James goes from #1 Tight End to virtually cut and waived are over thinking this. As starter the Steelers have the #1 rusher, are 2-0, have a high point RZ target for the first time since Plax (and he really wasn't that) to say nothing of a nice intermediate target.

Additionally not only has Outlaw played every offensive snap, he has about 20 (or 33%) special teams snaps to ZERO snaps for DJ and one snap for Grimble. Last year Lad Green played about half as many ST snaps per game as JJ. He might be seeing the field more than anyone on the team. From the most active Steeler to being bounced to the curb? LOL, srly?

If and when Lad Green, who blocks no better than last years version of JJ, comes off PUP certainly does not mean that JJ gets tossed aside.

In fact I can see Todd and Ben mulling over their version of the old Ed Dickson-Dennis Pitta duo. AB, Bell, Green, James, Coates: that's a very tough group to defend. That would be a fun group to watch in no huddle.

That leaves DJ and Grimble and one roster spot. If it comes to this I believe Tomlin goes with his favorite son in DJ. If Grimble isn’t the 53rd player on the roster then they will at least try to get him on PS. Nothing new about this at all. Everyone was shocked when the great Wesleyan Saunders was let go too.

Finally, nobody likes it that viable NFL players with starter potential is released due to the numbers game but that knife cuts both ways, otherwise Ross Cockrell wouldn’t be a starter on the team. I haven’t been watching them and their personnel needs but I wouldn’t doubt, if the need is there, that Grimble ends up with our old buddy Doug Whaley over at the Bills.

[COR-TEN]

Nice try Boyardee


The "try hard white guy" is better athlete than Grimble or DJ. But I understand the bias that if you're white, you're automatically a try hard, lunch paler type.

If Green gets healthy he will be #1. I don't doubt it. But to infer that James won't even get a hat on game day is ludicrous and I'd bet my left nut the only people contemplating that is wannabe GM's on fanboards, not the coaches or FO.

Jesse James has at least 7 weeks to prove he can be a good enough blocker to be the #2 in this system. If he doesn't by the time Green gets a back, he might still get a hat but he's not going to see as many snaps. He'll be insurance against Green getting hurt. If he does at least show competent blocking, he may very well be the solid #2... but his pass catching alone is not going to get him as many looks.

Thing is, nobody really knows what is up with Green(or do "they"?) - If his absence is due to his ankle or head. If he's still suffering from a concussion, one good hit and he's out again for an extended time. Either way, I think Haley will find ways to use all three TE.

[bradshaw2ben]

eh ... I think its too early to say he cant develop to be a good blocker.
but I do see why the concern as in those clips its the technique and timidity that are concerning -- which may be a function of awkwardness in the block due to height??

Yep, not much different than the Ranger looking awkward blocking at LT. This has almost every week giving concern to some ppl about Villy’s blocking. The same will be a weekly refrain with JJ. When James's on the move I am never going to hold my breadth hoping that he looks pretty. Much like Plax never did. Both just have gangly bodies. Which is a huge RZ plus but will never look "pretty" when run blocking. It doesn't mean it isn't effective regardless as to what PFF or depot says.

People thinking James goes from #1 Tight End to virtually cut and waived are over thinking this. As starter the Steelers have the #1 rusher, are 2-0, have a high point RZ target for the first time since Plax (and he really wasn't that) to say nothing of a nice intermediate target.

Additionally not only has Outlaw played every offensive snap, he has about 20 (or 33%) special teams snaps to ZERO snaps for DJ and one snap for Grimble. Last year Lad Green played about half as many ST snaps per game as JJ. He might be seeing the field more than anyone on the team. From the most active Steeler to being bounced to the curb? LOL, srly?

If and when Lad Green, who blocks no better than last years version of JJ, comes off PUP certainly does not mean that JJ gets tossed aside.

In fact I can see Todd and Ben mulling over their version of the old Ed Dickson-Dennis Pitta duo. AB, Bell, Green, James, Coates: that's a very tough group to defend. That would be a fun group to watch in no huddle.

That leaves DJ and Grimble and one roster spot. If it comes to this I believe Tomlin goes with his favorite son in DJ. If Grimble isn’t the 53rd player on the roster then they will at least try to get him on PS. Nothing new about this at all. Everyone was shocked when the great Wesleyan Saunders was let go too.

Finally, nobody likes it that viable NFL players with starter potential is released due to the numbers game but that knife cuts both ways, otherwise Ross Cockrell wouldn’t be a starter on the team. I haven’t been watching them and their personnel needs but I wouldn’t doubt, if the need is there, that Grimble ends up with our old buddy Doug Whaley over at the Bills.

Jesse James is the INTERIM #1. I doubt seriously they had any intention of him being the #1. Like, if Matakevich were starting at ILB while Shazier was on PUP. I'm not suggesting they should cut Jesse James, and he is in fact playing a ton on STs. I'm saying he's probably going to have to prove he can block better to get all those #2 snaps. More likely he alternates some snaps as #1 with Green and splits time at #2... unless he shows ability to be a dependable blocker.

[bradshaw2ben]

by the way, you might be operating on some poor info re: Green's blocking ability. I think he's pretty good.

http://www.behindthesteelcurtain.com/steelers-film-room/2016/3/24/11286244/steelers-film-room-ladarius-green-blocking-skills

[Legacy User]

by the way, you might be operating on some poor info re: Green's blocking ability. I think he's pretty good.

http://www.behindthesteelcurtain.com/steelers-film-room/2016/3/24/11286244/steelers-film-room-ladarius-green-blocking-skills

Deebo might disagree



Both Green and JJ are mostly get in the way at POA type of blockers right now. JJ might have upside technique wise at 22 y.o. I don't think they expect it from Green.

Mind you i did enjoy his flattening Pacman Anytime he lands on his ass is a good time to me.

[COR-TEN]

by the way, you might be operating on some poor info re: Green's blocking ability. I think he's pretty good.

http://www.behindthesteelcurtain.com/steelers-film-room/2016/3/24/11286244/steelers-film-room-ladarius-green-blocking-skills

Three plays don't mean shit. I'm sure if I scrubbed film, I could find three JJ blocks that worked. At least one this season. Also, from BTSC :

I was unable to find any tape the Chargers using Green in the manner which Pittsburgh would use Miller by pulling him from his position and using him as a lead blocker, . . .

- so why judge JJ differently?

[Donnie Brasco]

Roles, RS.

Green as move TE, Grimble as hybrid blocker/receiver, DJ as blocker/H-Back. James as insurance TE if Green can't go/has a setback.

Unless JJ gets it together as a run blocker, you could argue that Green will be better doing what JJ is doing and Grimble will be better as the #2. David Johnson has been outstanding, so I don't see how you deactivate him, unless it's to replace him with Nix.

Somebody has to block.

So we are a team who historically sucks in the RZ who has possibly stumbled upon a RZ target (JJ). And we want to not have him active because he's not a good blocker over a guy who hasn't taken a live snap with our QB and a 1 trick pony TE?

Yea that makes a ton of sense.

[bradshaw2ben]

First off, no TE in the league can block James Harrison. None.

Secondly, you go on and scrub for 2016 Jesse James blocking that impresses you. I will wait.

Since he lost the weight, he's moving better and looks better in the receiving game; he does seem to have regressed some as a blocker.

[Legacy User]

Lmao This thread is funny

Dont suggest the great white hope in Pittsburgh is less than destiny

[DP39]

by the way, you might be operating on some poor info re: Green's blocking ability. I think he's pretty good.

http://www.behindthesteelcurtain.com/steelers-film-room/2016/3/24/11286244/steelers-film-room-ladarius-green-blocking-skills

Deebo might disagree



Both Green and JJ are mostly get in the way at POA type of blockers right now. JJ might have upside technique wise at 22 y.o. I don't think they expect it from Green.

Mind you i did enjoy his flattening Pacman Anytime he lands on his ass is a good time to me.

That play isn't on Green at all. The RB is supposed to hit the hole left of center, but Big Dan takes the RG and collapses it. As far as Green knew his job was to keep Debo outside, which he was. Then the RB bounces it out and JH sheds and tackles.

I watched Green quite a bit last year (on my fantasy team - so I watched him closely) and he's a better blocker than one might expect from a move TE. He's no Gronk, but not bad either. If Green is healthy and he gains Ben's trust he will be a huge upgrade to our TEs. As for JJ, if Green is the player they brought him here to be, he will see a rotation with the other TEs, with a slight lead in playing time. My guess is JJs main contributions will be STs and RZ play.

[JackLambert58]

Lmao This thread is funny

Dont suggest the great white hope in Pittsburgh is less than destiny

[Obviously]

I think it comes down from the top that the Steelers have a unathletic try hard white guy somewhere on the roster mainly to appease portions of their fan base to put it gently.

I think X and DJ are going to continue to be very low cost options that specialize in much of what the Steelers want to do as well as particularly in Xs case offer some upside in a broader role.

If JJ wants to stay on this team Ive got to see at 1 of a couple of things in a very prevalent and dominating way.

1. Superior run blocking
2. Notable ability to make key chain moving catches and convert 3rd downs
3. Notable ability to catch TDs in the red zone.

As others have noted his run blocking is very suspect. Thats thing 1 for Steeler TEs. I hope he improves.

All that said, I would have very little problem keeping 26 on offense and viewing him as a 4th TE or even a 6th WR if he can improve in the passing game as a target and signs a friendly contract.

The amish, fat-fuck, Steeler fan hating, race baiting leftist STD just can't help himself with the amount of ridiculous dumbfuckery he loves to post here.

[DP39]

Speaking of TEs and hate to be that guy, but.....

Buccaneers waived TE Austin Seferian-Jenkins.

Cameron Brate and Luke Stocker will be the Bucs' tight ends the rest of the way. The 38th overall pick in the 2014 draft, Seferian-Jenkins was known to have drinking problems at the University of Washington and was popped for DUI on Friday morning, leading to his release. Some team will undoubtedly give the 24-year-old another chance, but Seferian-Jenkins will eventually face a suspension from the NFL.

Kid has talent, but his head isn't on straight. For a team with possible TE needs like us or the Jets he could be worth a look.

[Legacy User]

If Green cant go ASJ would be an interesting flyer.

[bradshaw2ben]

by the way, you might be operating on some poor info re: Green's blocking ability. I think he's pretty good.

http://www.behindthesteelcurtain.com/steelers-film-room/2016/3/24/11286244/steelers-film-room-ladarius-green-blocking-skills

Deebo might disagree



Both Green and JJ are mostly get in the way at POA type of blockers right now. JJ might have upside technique wise at 22 y.o. I don't think they expect it from Green.

Mind you i did enjoy his flattening Pacman Anytime he lands on his ass is a good time to me.

That play isn't on Green at all. The RB is supposed to hit the hole left of center, but Big Dan takes the RG and collapses it. As far as Green knew his job was to keep Debo outside, which he was. Then the RB bounces it out and JH sheds and tackles.

I watched Green quite a bit last year (on my fantasy team - so I watched him closely) and he's a better blocker than one might expect from a move TE. He's no Gronk, but not bad either. If Green is healthy and he gains Ben's trust he will be a huge upgrade to our TEs. As for JJ, if Green is the player they brought him here to be, he will see a rotation with the other TEs, with a slight lead in playing time. My guess is JJs main contributions will be STs and RZ play.

thank you, DP

[bradshaw2ben]

Speaking of TEs and hate to be that guy, but.....

Buccaneers waived TE Austin Seferian-Jenkins.

Cameron Brate and Luke Stocker will be the Bucs' tight ends the rest of the way. The 38th overall pick in the 2014 draft, Seferian-Jenkins was known to have drinking problems at the University of Washington and was popped for DUI on Friday morning, leading to his release. Some team will undoubtedly give the 24-year-old another chance, but Seferian-Jenkins will eventually face a suspension from the NFL.

Kid has talent, but his head isn't on straight. For a team with possible TE needs like us or the Jets he could be worth a look.

I think Green's status would have to change to season ending AND another guy get hurt to even think about ASJ.

[Scunge]

To me all of this talk of Green is a moot point, where is he? I just don't hold out much hope that we get anything from him this year.

I also don't understand how some are so critical of both Jesse James and Xavier Grimble. They are young players, practically rookies and they are playing well under the circumstances.

I think what is really going on here is that some are really butthurt that Heath Miller and Matt Spaeth are gone and that the Steelers plucked a 5th round pick and an UDFA and inserted them into the lineup and the team is doing just fine. That really irks people for some reason.

Just like it really pisses some people off that Boswell is doing so well. Over on Steeler Depot, before Shaun Suisham had to retire, they were actually writing stories about how there was going to be a strong competition for the kicking job, how Boz did not have anything locked up. I replied in their comments section in each of those stories that that was crazy talk, Suisham was done, Boz did have things locked up. Boz was younger, healthier and cheaper by $2.5 million a season, no contest, Boz wins. But I still found people that loved Suisham, even in town, and felt like he was the better option and that he should not lose his job because of injury. WTF?? What world are these people living in? Then news broke of him not being able to play, the injury being too bad and that the Steelers would have to release him, etc. But the point is that fans had this winning lottery ticket in Chris Boswell, we finally landed a great FG kicker who could also be a great kickoff weapon and they just could not see it.

I just don't get how people cling to these vets when they are in obvious decline and make excuses and overlook their bad play. Then when we cut those vets or they retire these fans proceed to attack the replacements in short order while conveniently using a double standard. It really is fascinating.

[R_S]

If Green cant go ASJ would be an interesting flyer.

Let's see how many guys on suspension we can get at the same time! don't forget to bring in the fatfuck Karlos Williams.

[Legacy User]

If Green cant go ASJ would be an interesting flyer.

Let's see how many guys on suspension we can get at the same time! don't forget to bring in the fatfuck Karlos Williams.

Andddd Greg Hardy!!!!


I find it fascinating that some here bitch and moan about the Steelers organizations lack of player control, how all they draft are dumbasses, etc etc, yet want to sign every pot smoking, woman beating problem child cut by other teams.

[COR-TEN]

First off, no TE in the league can block James Harrison. None.

Secondly, you go on and scrub for 2016 Jesse James blocking that impresses you. I will wait.

Since he lost the weight, he's moving better and looks better in the receiving game; he does seem to have regressed some as a blocker.

I'm not suggesting he doesn't need improvement, but I don't think he's as bad as is being made out here. One Jessie James block from last year :

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jf_YJWi8qT8

He took out two guys and sprung M Bryant for a TD.

He's supposed to block Mauluga and Dansby yet nobody is supposed to be able to block James Harrison?

[zeke5123]

To me all of this talk of Green is a moot point, where is he? I just don't hold out much hope that we get anything from him this year.

I also don't understand how some are so critical of both Jesse James and Xavier Grimble. They are young players, practically rookies and they are playing well under the circumstances.

I think what is really going on here is that some are really butthurt that Heath Miller and Matt Spaeth are gone and that the Steelers plucked a 5th round pick and an UDFA and inserted them into the lineup and the team is doing just fine. That really irks people for some reason.

Just like it really pisses some people off that Boswell is doing so well. Over on Steeler Depot, before Shaun Suisham had to retire, they were actually writing stories about how there was going to be a strong competition for the kicking job, how Boz did not have anything locked up. I replied in their comments section in each of those stories that that was crazy talk, Suisham was done, Boz did have things locked up. Boz was younger, healthier and cheaper by $2.5 million a season, no contest, Boz wins. But I still found people that loved Suisham, even in town, and felt like he was the better option and that he should not lose his job because of injury. WTF?? What world are these people living in? Then news broke of him not being able to play, the injury being too bad and that the Steelers would have to release him, etc. But the point is that fans had this winning lottery ticket in Chris Boswell, we finally landed a great FG kicker who could also be a great kickoff weapon and they just could not see it.

I just don't get how people cling to these vets when they are in obvious decline and make excuses and overlook their bad play. Then when we cut those vets or they retire these fans proceed to attack the replacements in short order while conveniently using a double standard. It really is fascinating.

The odd thing is that people generally aren't bitching at young guys replacing legends. It is guys like Miller (very good Steeler -- not an all-time great) or even meh players like the Kicking Canuck or Spaeth. You see the same thing with the Penguins. Fans are falling all over themselves to support Fleury and tear down Murray. Fleury -- a guy who has been a choke artist since he was in Juniors. A guy who has had more epic playoff meltdowns than probably anyone. A guy who aside from a "hot streak" playing under MJ's system designed to protect goalies has been only above average his whole career. This guy is now being peddled by some Pens fans as better than or just as valuable as the young netminder who had an unprecedented AHL career (yeah -- better than anyone ever) and then back stopped the Pens to the Stanley Cup. Pure madness.

I think some Pittsburgh fans want to believe grit/experience/intangibles >>> talent. Call it the IC approach. So, they want to shit on the young guys with all of the talent over the older guys with the grit, guile, and experience.

[bradshaw2ben]

Well, if you call being realistic about the young guys, instead of pretending they are a future superstar or even guaranteed starter for years, then yes.

[zeke5123]

Well, if you call being realistic about the young guys, instead of pretending they are a future superstar or even guaranteed starter for years, then yes.

Would you say Jesse James is an upgrade over Spaeth? Over Miller? Both of those now retired vets were pretty bad last year. I think James has realistic upside of a No. 1 average to slightly above average TE. I think right now he is probably a good No 2 / bad No 1. I think worst case with James he ends up a meh No. 2... kind of like Spaeth.

As for Murray... there is every reason to think he will be a future superstar, but I am banking on very good goalie (i.e., top ten).

And that is kind of the point. The young guys don't need to reach their ceilings to be better than the guys they are replacing, especially when you factor in cap.

[bradshaw2ben]

James with the weight loss looks to be a useful weapon as a receiver and arguably more servic able than 2015 Miller.

He's struggled some blocking this year. If his long term role is as #2, it wouldn't surprise me if he puts on some good weight. Do I think he's better or worse a blocker than 2015 Miller? Well, he can get to blocks Milller was struggling to get to but he's not as good in a phone booth and doesn't have the power in his blocks. This is something that could improve-- a lot of technique and timing involved to get all your body working together-- much like hitting the driver in golf.

As I said, Miller has at least 7 weeks of the season to prove he can block well enough or perhaps even a whole season to do so. If he shows improvement or even if he is effective enough, it could signal more opportunities for himself when and if Green returns.

Coates-Bell-Green-James-AB would be a badass red zone situation.

[jeemie]

Well, if you call being realistic about the young guys, instead of pretending they are a future superstar or even guaranteed starter for years, then yes.

I don't think anyone's pretending Jesse James is a future superstar.

Which was the point people have been trying to make to the OPer.

Why can't people just enjoy the moment and not throw cold water on the people who have said Jesse James has done a nice job for us?

[franco32]

The NFL is all about red zone efficiency. Let's not pretend our RZ efficiency did not struggle last year because Heath wasn't athletic enough anymore to get open in the end zone. He had TWO TDs all year.

If Jones can improve on that and give us more of a red zone presence...then I'll take some weak or missed blocks against elite front sevens. Give me those red zone TDs.

[Scunge]

Yeah, I am not proclaiming Jesse James to be the next Gates/Gonzalez or Gronk, but he and Grimble are playing about as well as we could have hoped for. Enjoy it.

I am a firm believer that when it comes to blocking, it does take time to get good at it. No substitute for game action and learning the techniques and just dealing with the speed of the game. With practice and the CBA and all, physical contact, real game like situations are hard to come by, really hurts a player's development to learn how to both block and tackle.

The one thing though about Grimble and James, they do seem to have "it" when it comes to catching the ball. They have both shown hands and athleticism that many were quick to doubt. I am so tired of the Spaeth comparisons, he never had the ability to be a weapon in the passing game, just as DJ Johnson does not. Sure, both of those players CAN catch a dump off, a check down but can they contort their bodies, highpoint a ball, tap their toes to get in bounds for the catch? No, and they will never be that type of player.

James and Grimble can be average blockers for all I care, but if they turn out to be above average pass catchers and Ben finds them 10 times in the redzone for TDs that is all that matters.

You hear a lot of talk about what they have to do to average 30 points a game, well, it starts with Ben throwing more TDs. 32 is his career high, he should be shooting for 50. And to get there you have to get more TD production out of your TEs. I would rather have TEs better at catching the ball.

It is sort of like how I would rather have CBs better in coverage and average against the run. Yes, in a perfect world we all want that CB who is great at both, and yes, it would be great to have a TE who is great at blocking and catching, but you usually have to pick one. Which do you want?

[Kodiak]

I'm LMAO at the "yinzers" in this thread that think TE still block in this league.

[R_S]

Yeah, I am not proclaiming Jesse James to be the next Gates/Gonzalez or Gronk, but he and Grimble are playing about as well as we could have hoped for. Enjoy it.

I am a firm believer that when it comes to blocking, it does take time to get good at it. No substitute for game action and learning the techniques and just dealing with the speed of the game. With practice and the CBA and all, physical contact, real game like situations are hard to come by, really hurts a player's development to learn how to both block and tackle.

The one thing though about Grimble and James, they do seem to have "it" when it comes to catching the ball. They have both shown hands and athleticism that many were quick to doubt. I am so tired of the Spaeth comparisons, he never had the ability to be a weapon in the passing game, just as DJ Johnson does not. Sure, both of those players CAN catch a dump off, a check down but can they contort their bodies, highpoint a ball, tap their toes to get in bounds for the catch? No, and they will never be that type of player.

James and Grimble can be average blockers for all I care, but if they turn out to be above average pass catchers and Ben finds them 10 times in the redzone for TDs that is all that matters.

You hear a lot of talk about what they have to do to average 30 points a game, well, it starts with Ben throwing more TDs. 32 is his career high, he should be shooting for 50. And to get there you have to get more TD production out of your TEs. I would rather have TEs better at catching the ball.

It is sort of like how I would rather have CBs better in coverage and average against the run. Yes, in a perfect world we all want that CB who is great at both, and yes, it would be great to have a TE who is great at blocking and catching, but you usually have to pick one. Which do you want?

You motherf#cking son of a b!tch you did it a again. Great post.