Dick Lebeau out as DC

[86n96]

My .02

The back story with Butler is intriguing. How much does Butler get paid? The whole waiting in the wings approach can only go on for so long, even with a mutual understanding between Butler and management.

Dick Lebeau is a legend but he's 77 years old! I mean, all due respect but if Butler is being courted by other teams to be the DC, how long could this go on?

This is what I think:

- Lebeau was fed up with the state of the organization and the guys he's been given on defense. I don't think he sees eye to eye with ColberTomlin and things were getting hairy.

- he respects the shit out of the Rooneys and Butler as the heir apparent. He realizes if he wants any shot at coaching somewhere else, the time to leave was now. This way Butler gets his promise fulfilled, steelers don't have to "fire" anyone and Dick becomes a Tier 1 DC candidate. Also agree he's likely headed to the desert.

- I still don't like Mike Tomlin. I'm sorry, I think he's talented and he's a decent coach but he's not the guy to take this organization to the next level.

so, an NFL legend and innovator with over 50 years in the league didn't have any say over who they draft? you don't think he's consulted before every defensive personnel move? because you'd be wrong.

[Stosh-67]

My .02

The back story with Butler is intriguing. How much does Butler get paid? The whole waiting in the wings approach can only go on for so long, even with a mutual understanding between Butler and management.

Dick Lebeau is a legend but he's 77 years old! I mean, all due respect but if Butler is being courted by other teams to be the DC, how long could this go on?

This is what I think:

- Lebeau was fed up with the state of the organization and the guys he's been given on defense. I don't think he sees eye to eye with ColberTomlin and things were getting hairy.

- he respects the shit out of the Rooneys and Butler as the heir apparent. He realizes if he wants any shot at coaching somewhere else, the time to leave was now. This way Butler gets his promise fulfilled, steelers don't have to "fire" anyone and Dick becomes a Tier 1 DC candidate. Also agree he's likely headed to the desert.

- I still don't like Mike Tomlin. I'm sorry, I think he's talented and he's a decent coach but he's not the guy to take this organization to the next level.

Well put

[Legacy User]

right click and save it. Steelers.com won't keep it forever.

[jeemie]

All these powerful people in the organization...Lebeau...Tomlin...Ben...are just helpless victims of circumstance, being run roughshod by whoever they're being run roughshod over at the moment.

These poor poor poor guys....

[Legacy User]

My .02

The back story with Butler is intriguing. How much does Butler get paid? The whole waiting in the wings approach can only go on for so long, even with a mutual understanding between Butler and management.

Dick Lebeau is a legend but he's 77 years old! I mean, all due respect but if Butler is being courted by other teams to be the DC, how long could this go on?

This is what I think:

- Lebeau was fed up with the state of the organization and the guys he's been given on defense. I don't think he sees eye to eye with ColberTomlin and things were getting hairy.

- he respects the shit out of the Rooneys and Butler as the heir apparent. He realizes if he wants any shot at coaching somewhere else, the time to leave was now. This way Butler gets his promise fulfilled, steelers don't have to "fire" anyone and Dick becomes a Tier 1 DC candidate. Also agree he's likely headed to the desert.

- I still don't like Mike Tomlin. I'm sorry, I think he's talented and he's a decent coach but he's not the guy to take this organization to the next level.

so, an NFL legend and innovator with over 50 years in the league didn't have any say over who they draft? you don't think he's consulted before every defensive personnel move? because you'd be wrong.

Lebeau guaranteed Laurantis if he was going to be available that he would be a Steeler. Instead MT got his man in Z Hood. A whole bunch of square peg round hole ILB draft picks later say Lebeau's input wasn't exactly the final word. With that in mind this would had been a more talented team if LeBeau got his way one that one pick alone.

[Legacy User]

My .02

The back story with Butler is intriguing. How much does Butler get paid? The whole waiting in the wings approach can only go on for so long, even with a mutual understanding between Butler and management.

Dick Lebeau is a legend but he's 77 years old! I mean, all due respect but if Butler is being courted by other teams to be the DC, how long could this go on?

This is what I think:

- Lebeau was fed up with the state of the organization and the guys he's been given on defense. I don't think he sees eye to eye with ColberTomlin and things were getting hairy.

- he respects the shit out of the Rooneys and Butler as the heir apparent. He realizes if he wants any shot at coaching somewhere else, the time to leave was now. This way Butler gets his promise fulfilled, steelers don't have to "fire" anyone and Dick becomes a Tier 1 DC candidate. Also agree he's likely headed to the desert.

- I still don't like Mike Tomlin. I'm sorry, I think he's talented and he's a decent coach but he's not the guy to take this organization to the next level.

so, an NFL legend and innovator with over 50 years in the league didn't have any say over who they draft? you don't think he's consulted before every defensive personnel move? because you'd be wrong.

Lebeau guaranteed Laurantis if he was going to be available that he would be a Steeler. Instead MT got his man in Z Hood. A whole bunch of square peg round hole ILB draft picks later say Lebeau's input wasn't exactly the final word. With that in mind this would had been a more talented team if LeBeau got his way one that one pick alone.

As far as I remember Lebeau did not guarantee anything...simply said he would like to draft him at 32

[bradshaw2ben]

It's not the "organization". It's Tomlin that gassed BA. It's Tomlin that hired Haley. It's Tomlin that he met with before resigning.

So how in the fuck do you figure a SB winning HC making 6 million a year has nothing to say about his staff? Do you have any idea how fucking stupid that is? Do you really think anyone in the organization would have any respect for him if this were the case?

because it was reported and confirmed by Bouchette and Dulac and Lolley that AR2 fired Arians despite Tomlin wanting to keep him.

This is the Pittsburgh Steelers, where the organization trumps any individual not named Rooney.

So call me stupid, but that's the way it is here, and it's been that way here for some time.

[Legacy User]

As far as I remember Lebeau did not guarantee anything...simply said he would like to draft him at 32

We are both going on memory so saying that my remembrance is wrong therefore more or less invalid is illogical on your part. My main point still stands that Lebeau's input on defensive draft choices was probably somewhat irrelevant if Tomlin felt strongly otherwise.

[bradshaw2ben]

I think everyone's opinion is irrelevant if the scouting department doesn't rate them highly or if KC doesn't like the pick.

[Legacy User]

As far as I remember Lebeau did not guarantee anything...simply said he would like to draft him at 32

We are both going on memory so saying that my remembrance is wrong therefore more or less invalid is illogical on your part. My main point still stands that Lebeau's input on defensive draft choices was probably somewhat irrelevant if Tomlin felt strongly otherwise.

A. I never said you were wrong, only offered an opposing viewpoint (and I'm not sure what you are trying to say in the bolded given that nothing in my argument precluded to the validity of your argument - its totally possible to have a valid, but unsound, argument if your premises are false).

B. Where did you hear that LeBeau guaranteed that he would draft him? the only thing I can find is Lauranitis himself saying that Lebeau hoped he would slip to 32. That seems like quite a bit to infer that LeBeau was getting overridden in the draft room.

Laurinaitis said every time he sees Pittsburgh Steelers defensive coordinator Dick LeBeau, the former Buckeye says "I hope you slip to us," at the last pick in the first round, No. 32. Laurinaitis said he'd be honored to join the Super Bowl champs, but he hopes it doesn't come to that.

http://www.cleveland.com/osu/index.ssf/ ... aurin.html

C. And yes if Mike Tomlin does feel strongly about a player he should override Dick...that is literally his job as the HC. If Dick did not like it, I can't imagine he is going to find it different anywhere else.

[Steelperch]

Some of you guys are way over thinking this. Lebeau didn't leave because he was unhappy, he left because they told him they didn't want him back. He even said in an interview he was surprised they didn't want him back.

Now why he wasn't brought back is up for debate. Whether they were unhappy with the progress pf the defense or they didn't think they could keep Butler for another year or Tomlin wants to move to a 4-3 are all possibilities.

[Legacy User]

As far as I remember Lebeau did not guarantee anything...simply said he would like to draft him at 32

We are both going on memory so saying that my remembrance is wrong therefore more or less invalid is illogical on your part. My main point still stands that Lebeau's input on defensive draft choices was probably somewhat irrelevant if Tomlin felt strongly otherwise.

A. I never said you were wrong, only offered an opposing viewpoint (and I'm not sure what you are trying to say in the bolded given that nothing in my argument precluded to the validity of your argument - its totally possible to have a valid, but unsound, argument if your premises are false).

B. Where did you hear that LeBeau guaranteed that he would draft him? the only thing I can find is Lauranitis himself saying that Lebeau hoped he would slip to 32. That seems like quite a bit to infer that LeBeau was getting overridden in the draft room.

Laurinaitis said every time he sees Pittsburgh Steelers defensive coordinator Dick LeBeau, the former Buckeye says "I hope you slip to us," at the last pick in the first round, No. 32. Laurinaitis said he'd be honored to join the Super Bowl champs, but he hopes it doesn't come to that.

http://www.cleveland.com/osu/index.ssf/ ... aurin.html

C. And yes if Mike Tomlin does feel strongly about a player he should override Dick...that is literally his job as the HC. If Dick did not like it, I can't imagine he is going to find it different anywhere else.

all I said, its how I remember it. You went and got the qoute. I wasn't far off.

[Legacy User]

Some of you guys are way over thinking this. Lebeau didn't leave because he was unhappy, he left because they told him they didn't want him back. He even said in an interview he was surprised they didn't want him back.

Now why he wasn't brought back is up for debate. Whether they were unhappy with the progress pf the defense or they didn't think they could keep Butler for another year or Tomlin wants to move to a 4-3 are all possibilities.

I never read that.

It's not consistent with " I resigned this job..." nor is it constent with-

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000456557/article/dick-lebeaus-resignation-caught-steelers-by-surprise

[Legacy User]

Except for the fact that there is zero mention of anything close to a guarantee...so how does this show dick was being undermined or not listened to? Maybe dick himself liked Ziggy more, who knows?

[Steelafan77]

Any rumor yet as to who might be candidates to fill the DC role besides Butler? I'm sure Butler is considered a shoe in but could there be a better candidate they might be eye balling is my question.

[Legacy User]

He was great but it was time. As it was time for Noll in 1991.

[Legacy User]

He was great but it was time. As it was time for Noll in 1991.

Interesting analogy. The Chin was such an overdue breath of fresh air. He rejuvenated the franchise.

Will a safe DC choice like Butler bring the same revolutionary change to the defense? If he can, he'll be with us only a season or two.

[steelmann58]

i asked some Steelers writers about who will be the next DC and all said Butler

[swissvale72]

Some of you guys are way over thinking this. Lebeau didn't leave because he was unhappy, he left because they told him they didn't want him back. He even said in an interview he was surprised they didn't want him back.

Now why he wasn't brought back is up for debate. Whether they were unhappy with the progress pf the defense or they didn't think they could keep Butler for another year or Tomlin wants to move to a 4-3 are all possibilities.

Exactly right, Perch....and most likely answer is the biz about Butler.

[V DUB]

When they brought LeBeau back in '04, the defense was full of young potential. They bought in to his defense, & damned if they didn't fuck up the league for their tenure.

That group is gone, with another round of high picks taking their place. I wonder if they thought the generation gap was just getting to large for the new faces to buy in? Christmas story time with LeBeau & guys in their early twenties seems like a grab your headphones moment, to me.

[blu]

Rooney gave his word to Butler that he would be DC within 2 years. Who thought Methuselah would still want to coach?

[Legacy User]

Except for the fact that there is zero mention of anything close to a guarantee...so how does this show dick was being undermined or not listened to? Maybe dick himself liked Ziggy more, who knows?

Except its how I remember. I dint say I was infallible to some certain degree.

[SteelPowerful]

- I still don't like Mike Tomlin. I'm sorry, I think he's talented and he's a decent coach but he's not the guy to take this organization to the next level.

Are you kidding?! He already has!

People write some of the most asinine shit on this site.

[Kodiak]

I think the OC and DC have a say in who they draft for their respective units, but it's a 3-headed monster with Tomlin and Colbert.

I'm not sure who to assign blame, but reality is Lebeau's defenses have been on the decline as guys brought here by Cowher started leaving/retiring or just getting old....Harrison, Hampton, Keisel, Ike and Troy were all Cowher guys and the cornerstone of those defenses. Aaron Smith only averaged 6 games a year his last 3 years from 2009-11. Plus Farrior, and maybe even Larry Foote. Ryan Clark, too.

Hopefully it's trending up, but the only defensive players worth a damn drafted since Cowher left have been Timmons and Woodley, and to lesser extent Gay and Worilds. Although I like McClendon, too. And Heyward.

I hope they've turned it around, but our defensive drafts were pretty poor overall for about 5-6 years there. Needed to hit on a least 3-4 more guys to keep reloading, and haven't gotten a single bonafide star.

[steelmann58]

scouts and men at the top need to do better

[Havoc]

- I still don't like Mike Tomlin. I'm sorry, I think he's talented and he's a decent coach but he's not the guy to take this organization to the next level.

Are you kidding?! He already has!

People write some of the most asinine shit on this site.

Since the steelers last had a post season win....

... the ravens have 7 post season wins.

Tomlin has only had a post season win in 2 different seasons.

This team has done nothing yet. It was nice that we won the division, but we got beat by the team we have been looking up to in our division for years now.

We had to have Keisel and Harrison rescue this season from disaster (on the defensive side of the ball). I would not count on this again from either of them. We are going to need young players to dominate on D but we do not know if this is going to happen.

[Kodiak]

and the schedule is brutal next year.....Need 1 more player on offense because they will have to be incredible to carry the defense to the playoffs.

Load-up in the secondary and play defense for turnovers. I'd guess that was a factor in Lebeau's departure

[Legacy User]

Butler and Tomlin have a history of working together that pre-dates their time with the Steelers.

Butler was the defensive coordinator at Arkansas State in 1998 when Tomlin was the defensive backs coach. Two years earlier, they were on the same staff together at University of Memphis.

[SteelPowerful]

Since the steelers last had a post season win....

... the ravens have 7 post season wins.

Tomlin has only had a post season win in 2 different seasons.

This team has done nothing yet. It was nice that we won the division, but we got beat by the team we have been looking up to in our division for years now.

We had to have Keisel and Harrison rescue this season from disaster (on the defensive side of the ball). I would not count on this again from either of them. We are going to need young players to dominate on D but we do not know if this is going to happen.

So you arbitrarily discount what has been done under Tomlin before the Ravens began their run? Once again - asinine. The Ravens are a well-run organization. They have done a better job with personnel than the Steelers have and Ozzie probably has more to do with that the Harbaugh. Once again the people on this board don't know half the shit they are talking about. Tomlin has reached the Super Bowl twice. Not many coaches have done that. The Steeler fan base needs to shut the hell up with its double standards.

[Havoc]

Since the steelers last had a post season win....

... the ravens have 7 post season wins.

Tomlin has only had a post season win in 2 different seasons.

This team has done nothing yet. It was nice that we won the division, but we got beat by the team we have been looking up to in our division for years now.

We had to have Keisel and Harrison rescue this season from disaster (on the defensive side of the ball). I would not count on this again from either of them. We are going to need young players to dominate on D but we do not know if this is going to happen.

So you arbitrarily discount what has been done under Tomlin before the Ravens began their run? Once again - asinine. The Ravens are a well-run organization. They have done a better job with personnel than the Steelers have and Ozzie probably has more to do with that the Harbaugh. Once again the people on this board don't know half the shit they are talking about.

I didn't post anything about Tomlin in this thread. That post you originally responded to was not mine.

Except I did say in my post Tomlin has had post season wins in a total of 2 different seasons... you can make of that what you will.

And I am saying, we do not know yet if this team has "arrived" to perennial sb contender for the next few years for a couple of the reasons I stated.

This defense this season was not good enough to win a super bowl. And it's not going to be next season either unless it is better, and we do not know if it will be or not.