happy w/ win..Tomlin Haley you gotta do much fucking better

[jeemie]

he would literally have to fire the Owner's handpicked OC and probably go against the Owner's multiple-times-stated desire to run this horizontal shit to protect Ben from himself.

Not a single person here blamed Noll when Joe Walton sucked and they didn't blame Cowher for Ray Sherman. When they asked Noll to fire his Coordinators, he refused and they forced him to resign. Chaz Fuckin Noll!

The Head Coach has a shitload of stuff on his plate and, yes, of course he talks about the plan ahead of time and he reviews that OC's performance weekly... but he doesn't design plays, he doesn't design an offense, and he doesn't call plays-- with very few exceptions. I think his background is primarily on the defensive side and I think the spends a lot more hands on time there-- which is natural because that unit has more obvious problems.

Whatever percentage blame you want to put on Tonlin, there is ZERO doubt that Todd Haley is a horrible OC and should have been relieved of his responsibilities-- at least of playcalling duties-- a long ass time ago. He's bad and let's not make excuses for him.

Art Rooney has never said he likes the horizontal shit.

That is simply untrue.

And I damn well blamed Noll for Walton. So did Merrill Hoge.

If Tomlin hates what Haley is doing, yet is powerless to change things, then he is emasculated as a head coach. Tomlin does not come out with any reputation intact if you blame it all on Haley and Rooney.

[Legacy User]

he would literally have to fire the Owner's handpicked OC and probably go against the Owner's multiple-times-stated desire to run this horizontal shit to protect Ben from himself.

Not a single person here blamed Noll when Joe Walton sucked and they didn't blame Cowher for Ray Sherman. When they asked Noll to fire his Coordinators, he refused and they forced him to resign. Chaz Fuckin Noll!

The Head Coach has a shitload of stuff on his plate and, yes, of course he talks about the plan ahead of time and he reviews that OC's performance weekly... but he doesn't design plays, he doesn't design an offense, and he doesn't call plays-- with very few exceptions. I think his background is primarily on the defensive side and I think the spends a lot more hands on time there-- which is natural because that unit has more obvious problems.

Whatever percentage blame you want to put on Tonlin, there is ZERO doubt that Todd Haley is a horrible OC and should have been relieved of his responsibilities-- at least of playcalling duties-- a long ass time ago. He's bad and let's not make excuses for him.

Exactly

Ben Bell AB Bryant.....in my book easily 4 of the top 10 offensive players in the nfl....one of the top 5 OL units....and we struggle to score over 20pts ?

[StillerDownSouth]

he would literally have to fire the Owner's handpicked OC and probably go against the Owner's multiple-times-stated desire to run this horizontal shit to protect Ben from himself.

Not a single person here blamed Noll when Joe Walton sucked and they didn't blame Cowher for Ray Sherman. When they asked Noll to fire his Coordinators, he refused and they forced him to resign. Chaz Fuckin Noll!

The Head Coach has a shitload of stuff on his plate and, yes, of course he talks about the plan ahead of time and he reviews that OC's performance weekly... but he doesn't design plays, he doesn't design an offense, and he doesn't call plays-- with very few exceptions. I think his background is primarily on the defensive side and I think the spends a lot more hands on time there-- which is natural because that unit has more obvious problems.

Whatever percentage blame you want to put on Tonlin, there is ZERO doubt that Todd Haley is a horrible OC and should have been relieved of his responsibilities-- at least of playcalling duties-- a long ass time ago. He's bad and let's not make excuses for him.

Exactly

Ben Bell AB Bryant.....in my book easily 4 of the top 10 offensive players in the nfl....one of the top 5 OL units....and we struggle to score over 20pts ?

Easy with the koolaid....no way Ben or Bryant are top 10 offensive players in the league. MB prob isn't top 30 WR in the league right now. Ben is prob still a top 4-5 QB right now. I am hoping the light comes on for MB but he has either been boom or bust thus far in his career and has been more bust than boom.

[Legacy User]

he would literally have to fire the Owner's handpicked OC and probably go against the Owner's multiple-times-stated desire to run this horizontal shit to protect Ben from himself.

Not a single person here blamed Noll when Joe Walton sucked and they didn't blame Cowher for Ray Sherman. When they asked Noll to fire his Coordinators, he refused and they forced him to resign. Chaz Fuckin Noll!

The Head Coach has a shitload of stuff on his plate and, yes, of course he talks about the plan ahead of time and he reviews that OC's performance weekly... but he doesn't design plays, he doesn't design an offense, and he doesn't call plays-- with very few exceptions. I think his background is primarily on the defensive side and I think the spends a lot more hands on time there-- which is natural because that unit has more obvious problems.

Whatever percentage blame you want to put on Tonlin, there is ZERO doubt that Todd Haley is a horrible OC and should have been relieved of his responsibilities-- at least of playcalling duties-- a long ass time ago. He's bad and let's not make excuses for him.

Exactly

Ben Bell AB Bryant.....in my book easily 4 of the top 10 offensive players in the nfl....one of the top 5 OL units....and we struggle to score over 20pts ?

Easy with the koolaid....no way Ben or Bryant are top 10 offensive players in the league. MB prob isn't top 30 WR in the league right now. Ben is prob still a top 4-5 QB right now. I am hoping the light comes on for MB but he has either been boom or bust thus far in his career and has been more bust than boom.

Highly inaccurate. 30 wr in the nfl more talented than MB ? Im done. Enjoy your reality

[Obviously]

he would literally have to fire the Owner's handpicked OC and probably go against the Owner's multiple-times-stated desire to run this horizontal shit to protect Ben from himself.

Not a single person here blamed Noll when Joe Walton sucked and they didn't blame Cowher for Ray Sherman. When they asked Noll to fire his Coordinators, he refused and they forced him to resign. Chaz Fuckin Noll!

The Head Coach has a shitload of stuff on his plate and, yes, of course he talks about the plan ahead of time and he reviews that OC's performance weekly... but he doesn't design plays, he doesn't design an offense, and he doesn't call plays-- with very few exceptions. I think his background is primarily on the defensive side and I think the spends a lot more hands on time there-- which is natural because that unit has more obvious problems.

Whatever percentage blame you want to put on Tonlin, there is ZERO doubt that Todd Haley is a horrible OC and should have been relieved of his responsibilities-- at least of playcalling duties-- a long ass time ago. He's bad and let's not make excuses for him.

Again, the "Company Man" theory which is just a sliver difference from the "Potted Plant" theory.

[bradshaw2ben]

he would literally have to fire the Owner's handpicked OC and probably go against the Owner's multiple-times-stated desire to run this horizontal shit to protect Ben from himself.

Not a single person here blamed Noll when Joe Walton sucked and they didn't blame Cowher for Ray Sherman. When they asked Noll to fire his Coordinators, he refused and they forced him to resign. Chaz Fuckin Noll!

The Head Coach has a shitload of stuff on his plate and, yes, of course he talks about the plan ahead of time and he reviews that OC's performance weekly... but he doesn't design plays, he doesn't design an offense, and he doesn't call plays-- with very few exceptions. I think his background is primarily on the defensive side and I think the spends a lot more hands on time there-- which is natural because that unit has more obvious problems.

Whatever percentage blame you want to put on Tonlin, there is ZERO doubt that Todd Haley is a horrible OC and should have been relieved of his responsibilities-- at least of playcalling duties-- a long ass time ago. He's bad and let's not make excuses for him.

Again, the "Company Man" theory which is just a sliver difference from the "Potted Plant" theory.

You guy are stuck in the mindset of a different era, different franchise. The HC here is a CEO for a company with a very strong Board that features an extremely visible and powerful founding family. Tomlin is Doug McMillon.

Doug McMillon might have a lot of influence over the success of Walmart and he is "in charge" and "the buck stops with him", because he's sure as hell going to get fired if the performance of the company sags or the stock price drops, but how many major decisions does he make with impunity? Far fewer than you'd think.

[alancac98]

he would literally have to fire the Owner's handpicked OC and probably go against the Owner's multiple-times-stated desire to run this horizontal shit to protect Ben from himself.

Not a single person here blamed Noll when Joe Walton sucked and they didn't blame Cowher for Ray Sherman. When they asked Noll to fire his Coordinators, he refused and they forced him to resign. Chaz Fuckin Noll!

The Head Coach has a shitload of stuff on his plate and, yes, of course he talks about the plan ahead of time and he reviews that OC's performance weekly... but he doesn't design plays, he doesn't design an offense, and he doesn't call plays-- with very few exceptions. I think his background is primarily on the defensive side and I think the spends a lot more hands on time there-- which is natural because that unit has more obvious problems.

Whatever percentage blame you want to put on Tonlin, there is ZERO doubt that Todd Haley is a horrible OC and should have been relieved of his responsibilities-- at least of playcalling duties-- a long ass time ago. He's bad and let's not make excuses for him.

Exactly

Ben Bell AB Bryant.....in my book easily 4 of the top 10 offensive players in the nfl....one of the top 5 OL units....and we struggle to score more than 14 pts ?

Fixed it for ya. As noted earlier or in another thread - our "high powered" offense scored 14 points and the Brown's offense scored 18! Sounds encouraging doesn't it.

[stinger8]

Lots of blame to go around on offense yesterday. The vaunted O line was relatively impotent, and the rookie receivers two holding penalties negated nice gains. Some shitty throws to boot. I understand and accept to a degree rust for Bell and Bryant.

Play calling was overall below average needs to be better however the JJ touchdown on the delay and release at the goal line was very nicely designed and executed. Objectivity would be swell.

Interesting no bitching about Mitchell and a D that struggled some what against a rookie QB??

[jeemie]

You guy are stuck in the mindset of a different era, different franchise. The HC here is a CEO for a company with a very strong Board that features an extremely visible and powerful founding family. Tomlin is Doug McMillon.

Doug McMillon might have a lot of influence over the success of Walmart and he is "in charge" and "the buck stops with him", because he's sure as hell going to get fired if the performance of the company sags or the stock price drops, but how many major decisions does he make with impunity? Far fewer than you'd think.

But that doesn't mean Doug McMillon has zero power or influence in the company. You expect me to believe if Mike Tomlin is displeased with what Todd Haley is doing, he has absolutely ZERO levers of influence to do anything about it?

The following is somewhat of a simplification, so let's not nitpick but focus on the general argument:

We keep seeing the same shit from Haley year after year...a bullshit offense relying mostly on supreme execution of the players, with almost no help from his scheme to assist in that execution. Plays to the intermediate/deep middle are practically non-existent (save when they're in no huddle, it appears). Schemes to get players wide open seem to be non-existent (else our offensive players suck more than we think they do).

There might be tweaks every year (like the screen game from last year) but essentially this is what we see...year after year...leading to 30+ points if everyone executes flawlessly, and a struggle to get to double digit points otherwise.

Really only three situations are possible:

*We're vastly overrating the skill level of our offense. If this is so, then not much can be done, save to get better players. That reflects on Tomlin's and Colbert's abilities to scout out offensive talent that can play in today's NFL
*Tomlin is on board with what Haley is doing. If so, then Tomlin is complicit in the crapfest on offense we're seeing.
*Tomlin is NOT on board with what Haley is doing, in which case, he either has ZERO influence in the organization (i.e. he can't make Haley change to suit what he wants), or he lacks the courage or the motivation to speak out as to what he sees is wrong.

There really are no other possibilities than these.

And NONE of these possibilities reflect well on Mike Tomlin.

[Legacy User]

he would literally have to fire the Owner's handpicked OC and probably go against the Owner's multiple-times-stated desire to run this horizontal shit to protect Ben from himself.

Not a single person here blamed Noll when Joe Walton sucked and they didn't blame Cowher for Ray Sherman. When they asked Noll to fire his Coordinators, he refused and they forced him to resign. Chaz Fuckin Noll!

The Head Coach has a shitload of stuff on his plate and, yes, of course he talks about the plan ahead of time and he reviews that OC's performance weekly... but he doesn't design plays, he doesn't design an offense, and he doesn't call plays-- with very few exceptions. I think his background is primarily on the defensive side and I think the spends a lot more hands on time there-- which is natural because that unit has more obvious problems.

Whatever percentage blame you want to put on Tonlin, there is ZERO doubt that Todd Haley is a horrible OC and should have been relieved of his responsibilities-- at least of playcalling duties-- a long ass time ago. He's bad and let's not make excuses for him.

Again, the "Company Man" theory which is just a sliver difference from the "Potted Plant" theory.

You guy are stuck in the mindset of a different era, different franchise. The HC here is a CEO for a company with a very strong Board that features an extremely visible and powerful founding family. Tomlin is Doug McMillon.

Doug McMillon might have a lot of influence over the success of Walmart and he is "in charge" and "the buck stops with him", because he's sure as hell going to get fired if the performance of the company sags or the stock price drops, but how many major decisions does he make with impunity? Far fewer than you'd think.

Truth

[Legacy User]

They really seem to be easing Martavis back into action with all these screens and two yard passes.

I agree Haley is at best an average OC. But the O will still hit an elite level at some point hopefully sooner mainly on the play of the superstars

[Legacy User]

[/quote] JJ touchdown on the delay and release at the goal line was very nicely designed and executed. [/quote]

I disagree.....and I will go further

I guarantee we see that poorly conceived poory done bs again this year and it blows up in their face.

To me that play is pretty much Haley in a nutshell

No rhyme or reason to it
Poorly conceived to begin with poorly executed as well
Got lucky it "worked" against a bad team

[bradshaw2ben]

Another option: Tomlin is unhappy with the results and works with Haley to try and gets more of what he wants but it's glacial change, like everything else at the Pittsburgh Steelers. Hell, they're still "developing" Landry Jones.

Actually, Landry Jones and Todd Haley are perfectly analogous: both so obviously lack 'it', yet an enormous investment has been made in trying to make each work, and the argument is continually made that changing them means a short-term step backwards that the organization is unwilling to take.

Sometimes when Tomlin says "We don't live in our fears" I think he sending a message to the organization as a whole.

[stinger8]

JJ touchdown on the delay and release at the goal line was very nicely designed and executed. [/quote]

I disagree.....and I will go further

I guarantee we see that poorly conceived poory done bs again this year and it blows up in their face.

To me that play is pretty much Haley in a nutshell

No rhyme or reason to it
Poorly conceived to begin with poorly executed as well
Got lucky it "worked" against a bad team[/quote]

You definitely are much smarter than me cause I saw a play that seemed to work just fine, got us 6 points. Seemed like JJ was pretty open and basically walked in.

Please be kind enough to remind us you called that when it "blows up in their face"

[Legacy User]

Another option: Tomlin is unhappy with the results and works with Haley to try and gets more of what he wants but it's glacial change, like everything else at the Pittsburgh Steelers. Hell, they're still "developing" Landry Jones.

Actually, Landry Jones and Todd Haley are perfectly analogous: both so obviously lack 'it', yet an enormous investment has been made in trying to make each work, and the argument is continually made that changing them means a short-term step backwards that the organization is unwilling to take.

Sometimes when Tomlin says "We don't live in our fears" I think he sending a message to the organization as a whole.

I think it's also that tomlin doesn't really know and might not even care. That is he's mainly a defensive guy and gives the offense a lot of latitude whether it's Haley arians Ben munchak etc.

IOW tomlin just wants it "to work." I think he's much more personally invested in the D.

Do it's not something on offense that tomlin can "fix" because he's not in the details. He probably offers high level things like let's try more of X. But I doubt he's breaking down film.

When the O doesn't do well like this browns then they meet and talk. But I don't see tomlin trying to actually solve things.

[Havoc]

.

[R_S]

Reminder: Todd Haley is a literal cuckold. The man is a defective. Winning is not in his nature.

this is gold

[jeemie]

Another option: Tomlin is unhappy with the results and works with Haley to try and gets more of what he wants but it's glacial change, like everything else at the Pittsburgh Steelers. Hell, they're still "developing" Landry Jones.

Actually, Landry Jones and Todd Haley are perfectly analogous: both so obviously lack 'it', yet an enormous investment has been made in trying to make each work, and the argument is continually made that changing them means a short-term step backwards that the organization is unwilling to take.

Sometimes when Tomlin says "We don't live in our fears" I think he sending a message to the organization as a whole.

I think this is a HUGE stretch, particularly the last line of your post.

[Legacy User]

I'm taking a wait and see approach for the Vikings. Let's see Bell, MB and OL in the flow for a full practice week. Home opener. Haley will surely be conservative but opportunity here to put up 4+ tds.

All that really matters is steelers get the 1or 2 seed and play up to snuff in the SB. Ha. Great being a steelers fan when that's pretty much your base expectations. Lol

[Legacy User]

I think that the offense got caught between not wanting to show a lot and having to deal with not before seen highly aggressive defense with a lot of new talent and a new DC. OL was a little shell shocked as evidenced by the holding penalties, but towards the end, it seemed to find its groove. Ben said it best this offense is "wait and see" and I take him at his word. Heck we eliminate the penalties this game might have been a cakewalk.

http://www.espn.com/blog/nflnation/post/_/id/247671/ben-roethlisberger-is-right-this-is-a-wait-and-see-steelers-offense

I think that the goal is to unveil the offense (like a fully operational Death Star) versus the Ravens. Up until then, it is going to be working on issues and packages finding the right mix.

[Legacy User]

I think fans are under appreciating the browns too thinking it shoulda been 55-3.

They have a stout D up front and a smart DC. They got a shot in the arm of hope with this new qb. They're a very young team so they don't have the losing baggage. They're at home in a brand new season.

I thought we'd win but I was going to post in the score game something like 20-13. I don't post in the score game because it's bad luck. But felt it would be closer game.

That said it could have been a bigger when to have the Steelers converted at some key times. And that's an ongoing problem.

[bradshaw2ben]

Another option: Tomlin is unhappy with the results and works with Haley to try and gets more of what he wants but it's glacial change, like everything else at the Pittsburgh Steelers. Hell, they're still "developing" Landry Jones.

Actually, Landry Jones and Todd Haley are perfectly analogous: both so obviously lack 'it', yet an enormous investment has been made in trying to make each work, and the argument is continually made that changing them means a short-term step backwards that the organization is unwilling to take.

Sometimes when Tomlin says "We don't live in our fears" I think he sending a message to the organization as a whole.

I think this is a HUGE stretch, particularly the last line of your post.

I'm certain you do. That middle paragraph is nail and hammer, though.

[Legacy User]

I think fans are under appreciating the browns too thinking it shoulda been 55-3.

They have a stout D up front and a smart DC. They got a shot in the arm of hope with this new qb. They're a very young team so they don't have the losing baggage. They're at home in a brand new season.

I thought we'd win but I was going to post in the score game something like 20-13. I don't post in the score game because it's bad luck. But felt it would be closer game.

That said it could have been a bigger when to have the Steelers converted at some key times. And that's an ongoing problem.

I'm riding with this. Fans here are sometimes like the Bears fans on SNL.

"Im going Ben and Dikta by themselves tag team grudge match style- 145-3 over the Browns"

[Legacy User]

Yesterday's game, in terms of playcalling showed the stark difference between Todd Haley and his counterparts.

I thought the Browns looked for more dynamic in what they called. You couldn't get a read on what might come next. They did their best given what they had to try and keep the Steelers off balance.

Toddy Haley on the other hand was coached into a corner. He was predictable from the start, and the only reason the Steelers had any success was due to talent.

Seems that in these games, the opponent's offense gets more out of lesser skill players whereas the Steelers offense, lauded for the talent they have... seem to underwhelm and only win the basis of tremendous individual efforts.

Todd might design a great offense... he just can't call it during a game. I feel like he gets dragged down quickly into a few things he's comfortable with and that's it for the day

[Legacy User]

Another option: Tomlin is unhappy with the results and works with Haley to try and gets more of what he wants but it's glacial change, like everything else at the Pittsburgh Steelers. Hell, they're still "developing" Landry Jones.

Actually, Landry Jones and Todd Haley are perfectly analogous: both so obviously lack 'it', yet an enormous investment has been made in trying to make each work, and the argument is continually made that changing them means a short-term step backwards that the organization is unwilling to take.

Sometimes when Tomlin says "We don't live in our fears" I think he sending a message to the organization as a whole.

Your Wal Mart allegory works well here in this regard because I believe that Haley is granted a lot of leeway because in the eyes of the FO and ownership he has accomplished the mission of saving Ben from Ben. So when the offense doesn't do what we as fans think it should we go back to what are ownerships goals here. Honestly, if Arians were still the OC, Ben might be retired by now.

The FO and coaching staff believes that someone has to come in and win that job from Landry and they aren't going to spend a lot of money or draft picks (until this year) to do so. While most can overcome him from a talent standpoint, knowing the playbook aspect is key- thus the big armed, highly athletic, extremely intelligent Dobbs addition. His up and down accuracy is as a direct result of his poor footwork- which can be improved. And I firmly believe from seeing this kid destroy SEC defenses with WRs had butter sticks for hands.

[jebrick]

I think there is a lot of variance in the 1st games of the year. New things are trotted out that teams haven't seen. My guess is that the Steelers did not show much new and the Browns had a lot new. We will see a lot in the Minn game. Bradford can pick them apart if they give his Wr room. And their defense is tough.

[jeemie]

I think there is a lot of variance in the 1st games of the year. New things are trotted out that teams haven't seen. My guess is that the Steelers did not show much new and the Browns had a lot new. We will see a lot in the Minn game. Bradford can pick them apart if they give his Wr room. And their defense is tough.

If this wasn't Haley's pattern year after year, I could buy this.

But this is what we get with Haley. When the Browns with a rookie QB are allowed to look more dynamic than us with a 14-year HoF veteran...all I can say is "WHAT THE FUCK?!?!?!?!?!?" And regardless of what anyone says, Mike Tomlin enables this.

But to be honest...I expected this....my 34-20 prediction notwithstanding (gotta learn not to try and guess a different score from other players in the score game and just go with my gut).

People can claim I'm wrong, and maybe I am, but you can't go through preseason and only have your starters work with each other for two series the entire preseason and not expect them to look like shit in the first couple of games. IMO, the Steelers have shifted WAY too far down the "just make sure no one gets injured in preseason" track and need to re-establish a balance so the first team isn't completely rusty on opening day.

Byes are won or lost on one game. Playoff seeding often comes down to one game. You can't treat games 1-3 of the regular season like preseason games 5-7. That's a recipe for an extra week of playoffs and road playoff games...making a Super Bowl that much harder.

[bradshaw2ben]

So when the offense doesn't do what we as fans think it should we go back to what are ownerships goals here. Honestly, if Arians were still the OC, Ben might be retired by now.

If the Steelers had the OL they have now while Arians were still the OC, they would be the toast of the NFL. They finally invested in OL that could pass protect and then cut out the insides of the great pass game they had-- all they were missing was an OL. The fact that they didn't give Arians any draft, salary, nor free agency capital until the very end of his tenure is an important consideration.

[Legacy User]

I think there is a lot of variance in the 1st games of the year. New things are trotted out that teams haven't seen. My guess is that the Steelers did not show much new and the Browns had a lot new. We will see a lot in the Minn game. Bradford can pick them apart if they give his Wr room. And their defense is tough.

If this wasn't Haley's pattern year after year, I could buy this.

But this is what we get with Haley. When the Browns with a rookie QB are allowed to look more dynamic than us with a 14-year HoF veteran...all I can say is "WHAT THE FUCK?!?!?!?!?!?" And regardless of what anyone says, Mike Tomlin enables this.

But to be honest...I expected this....my 34-20 prediction notwithstanding (gotta learn not to try and guess a different score from other players in the score game and just go with my gut).

People can claim I'm wrong, and maybe I am, but you can't go through preseason and only have your starters work with each other for two series the entire preseason and not expect them to look like shit in the first couple of games. IMO, the Steelers have shifted WAY too far down the "just make sure no one gets injured in preseason" track and need to re-establish a balance so the first team isn't completely rusty on opening day.

Byes are won or lost on one game. Playoff seeding often comes down to one game. You can't treat games 1-3 of the regular season like preseason games 5-7. That's a recipe for an extra week of playoffs and road playoff games...making a Super Bowl that much harder.

Good post. No agenda for me, but I respectfully disagree with B2B and that's fine. Imho this is Tomlin and Haleys offense, I might throw Ben in there as well except we have heard and read about complaints and pushback from Ben for change to the offense and playcalls. Pushback from Tomlin?? Nope not a peep, this is literally Tomlin and Haleys offense so for me when we are complaining about this horizontal shit, we are looking straight at Tomlin and Haley.

Question for you guys, if getting rid of haley meant tying Tomlin to him and canning both of them how many of you would pull the trigger and fire them both?

[Donnie Brasco]

Good post. No agenda for me, but I respectfully disagree with B2B and that's fine. Imho this is Tomlin and Haleys offense, I might throw Ben in there as well except we have heard and read about complaints and pushback from Ben for change to the offense and playcalls. Pushback from Tomlin?? Nope not a peep, this is literally Tomlin and Haleys offense so for me when we are complaining about this horizontal shit, we are looking straight at Tomlin and Haley.

Question for you guys, if getting rid of haley meant tying Tomlin to him and canning both of them how many of you would pull the trigger and fire them both?

Good question. I definitely feel like a fresh look in terms of an OC is in order as I believe there are better people out there, so I'd definitely can Haley.
But as much as I'm not a Tomlin fan, are there really appreciably better coaches out there? I don't think so. I just wish Tomlin would be a bit more hands on with the offense. He's now let Haley and Arians do their own thing when that's not proven to be the best approach. I truly believe Tomlin knows his coaches limitations, but doesn't seem inclined to intervene...it's weird