Kozora: Tomlin Offers Lame Excuses For Steelers Bad Matchups

[Havoc]

Dude yes he forced it.

And you act like having one more play is a bad thing.

Having one more play is better than having no more plays.

Situational awareness.

Having 1 more play is a bad thing if we don't score a TD on it. We don't get another.

Ben thought AB would drag the route and threw to where he thought AB would be. How is that situational awareness?

Ben was telling the truth when he never would have imagined the NT getting blocked into the pick, and the NT didn't get blocked into the pick until Ben's arm was moving forward.

Agree to disagree I guess. Occasionally clusterfuck happens and that's how I see it.

[Havoc]

OK Jeemie, you can disregard my agree to disagree, that's boring

[Havoc]

I looked at the play on the all 22 from the ez view yet again. I stopped the film at many points to get a good view of everything which you really need to do to see what is happening on this play.

It does not appear that Ben threw blindly into the middle of the field.

As soon as Ben recovers the bad snap he gets his head up and looks straight down the middle of the field reading the play. It appears that while he is in contact with Conner (bumping into each other) that Ben kept his head up looking straight down the middle of the field reading the play. There was a lane to throw thru.. He then turns and looks at AB, and as I stated, when he is looking at AB and starts his throwing motion drawing the football back there was still a lane to throw thru.

I will say this again... Ben's arm going forward and the NT getting blocked into the pick happen simultaneously.

It's easy to pile on the QB who I agree deserves some of the criticism he receives, but in this case our playmaker didn't give up on the play which makes more sense in that situation not less. You have to get the football in the ez if at all possible.

Ben's explanation of the play which was bashed on this site by some is probably correct.

[jeemie]

B2B your response is a fail on both aspects.

*The throw to JuJu wasn’t a blind throw.
*It wasn’t to the crowded middle of the field...JuJu had one on one.

As for Ben’s explanation, no way was Brown getting to the spot Ben threw to because Brown’s path was to that spot was blocked.



Bad throw...should never have been thrown. Too many things went wrong on the play...with one play left in his back pocket, Ben never should have forced the issue.

[W&M_Steeler]

I can't believe people are still trying to defend Ben on this play. It was an obvious, inexcusable fuck-up. Frankly, Ben's lame excuses and buck-passing about this play have lowered my opinion of him somewhat. He should know better. Passing the blame is a bad look for him.

[tbsteel]

I can't believe people are still trying to defend Ben on this play. It was an obvious, inexcusable fuck-up. Frankly, Ben's lame excuses and buck-passing about this play have lowered my opinion of him somewhat. He should know better. Passing the blame is a bad look for him.

People still excuse the INT at the end of the Pats game last year that was another panicked, discombobulated, forced bad decision that lost us the game.

All you need to know is if those plays were made by Aaron Rodgers or Eli or Rivers they would be seen in a completely, completely different light on here. It's just how it is.

[W&M_Steeler]

I can't believe people are still trying to defend Ben on this play. It was an obvious, inexcusable fuck-up. Frankly, Ben's lame excuses and buck-passing about this play have lowered my opinion of him somewhat. He should know better. Passing the blame is a bad look for him.

People still excuse the INT at the end of the Pats game last year that was another panicked, discombobulated, forced bad decision that lost us the game.

All you need to know is if those plays were made by Aaron Rodgers or Eli or Rivers they would be seen in a completely, completely different light on here. It's just how it is.

Roethlisberger is my all-time favorite Steeler (I was born in the 1980s so while I appreciate the 1970s Steelers they are historical figures for me with less direct emotional investment into them). But the fact is that Ben is getting too sloppy and is killing the Steelers with terrible interceptions at the worst possible moments. At this point he turning wins into losses almost as often as he is turning losses into wins. It was frustrating to hear him make excuses because it indicates that he thinks he has no room to improve. I don't understand the defend Ben despite all evidence types.

[bradshaw2ben]

I can't believe people are still trying to defend Ben on this play. It was an obvious, inexcusable fuck-up. Frankly, Ben's lame excuses and buck-passing about this play have lowered my opinion of him somewhat. He should know better. Passing the blame is a bad look for him.

People still excuse the INT at the end of the Pats game last year that was another panicked, discombobulated, forced bad decision that lost us the game.

All you need to know is if those plays were made by Aaron Rodgers or Eli or Rivers they would be seen in a completely, completely different light on here. It's just how it is.

COMPLETELY different play. NE play was a decent play call, a dart, right on the money, thrown to an open WR... who was egregiously held and pulled back while the defender pulled himself forward into deflecting the football. No hold, it's a TD unless Rogers drops it.

The Denver play wasn't going to work, regardless and the throw was ill-advised, even though Ben apparently thought it was going to work.

And Jeemie, you said "never throw blindly into the middle of the field". The throw I posted is blind as hell and between the numbers. From his own EZ. It couldn't be any riskier. Ben actually said in his presser that he couldn't see the safety, so he hoped he wouldn't get there... or words to that effect.

Live by the grey, die by the grey, bud.

[W&M_Steeler]

Live by the grey, die by the grey, bud.

If "the grey" now means that Ben will routinely throw ill-advised passes into the middle of the defense within 5 yards of the endzone, like he did against Atlanta and Denver, then we're going to die by it more often than we live by it.

[Havoc]

How many of you guys commenting on the play have scrubbed the ez all 22 view? I am telling you if you break it down from that view, you get a different perspective of the play, you can see better what Ben saw.

I am telling you it was not a blind throw into the middle of the field, even Jeemie's pic does not support that.

The narrative that Ben threw blindly into the middle of the field is bullshit.

Regarding AB's route, there was nothing preventing him from adjusting the route and then dragging the route as opposed to continuing at an angle. Yes, Ben's throw would have been low if he had done so, probably at his ankles.

[Havoc]

It appears to me, this play boils down to this...

AB was supposed to drag the route, not angle it toward the back of the EZ. He was not running a slant route. So, since there was a defender in his path, what is the adjustment that AB was supposed to make?

Was AB supposed to adjust his route and continue the drag (he could have taken one quick step to his left around the defender and then dragged the route across the field), or continue at an angle toward the back of the EZ?

I do not know the answer but I will say, seems it would be better if he adjusted and dragged which was the reason for the drag to begin with (so the db cannot undercut the route as Ben stated).

I'm not blaming anyone for the play, just to be clear.

[COR-TEN]

How many of you guys commenting on the play have scrubbed the ez all 22 view?

no, no, no, no. You can't say that here. Average fans that watch once or record a broadcast view are waaaaaaay more informed and equally smart about what they watch as those that scrub the All 22 ez view. And mentioning it just makes them feel butthurt.

And I agree with you. It was a clusterfuck. But BR needs to eat that ball. Period.

[Legacy User]

How many of you guys commenting on the play have scrubbed the ez all 22 view?

no, no, no, no. You can't say that here. Average fans that watch once or record a broadcast view are waaaaaaay more informed and equally smart about what they watch as those that scrub the All 22 ez view. And mentioning it just makes them feel butthurt.

And I agree with you. It was a clusterfuck. But BR needs to eat that ball. Period.

I certainly have no idea what the "process" is, but the "result" so far this year has included Ben throwing some (without-the-benefit-of-the-all-22) seemingly reckless, dumb picks.

[Havoc]

Tunch in his breakdown of the play defends Pouncey. Why did he do that? Because you could blame Pouncey for blocking the NT into the route, but noone wants to do that because it's too easy to react to the network broadcast and blame the qb.

In Tunch's breakdown, he does not blame anyone for the play. I also heard him on SNR commenting on it and he again did not blame anyone for the play and again defended Pouncey saying he did "too good of a job blocking but you can't blame him for that".

Clusterfuck is still the best conclusion beginning with the playcall in that situation, in my view.

[bradshaw2ben]

How many of you guys commenting on the play have scrubbed the ez all 22 view?

no, no, no, no. You can't say that here. Average fans that watch once or record a broadcast view are waaaaaaay more informed and equally smart about what they watch as those that scrub the All 22 ez view. And mentioning it just makes them feel butthurt.

And I agree with you. It was a clusterfuck. But BR needs to eat that ball. Period.

I certainly have no idea what the "process" is, but the "result" so far this year has included Ben throwing some (without-the-benefit-of-the-all-22) seemingly reckless, dumb picks.

The only one I think was truly indefensible on the reckless, dumb scale was Denver.

The lob to AB vs Atlanta wasn't my first choice, but it's a ball that AB traditionally catches, the game was more or less under control, and Ben was trying to get something going with AB that day. It also had the long-term effect of turning the season on its axis. Before that, more forcing throws, after that... he's been pretty great, aside from last play in Denver.

The INT to Macdonald was a TD that Ben just lost his grip and missed the throw. I don't really buy this narrative that Ben's been overly sloppy with the football since halftime of the Atlanta game.

Before lob INT:
128/203... 1515 yds... 63.1%... 7.46 YPA... 9 TD (4.4%)... 6 INT (3.0%)... 4 fumbles
88.19 QB rating
After:
213/314... 2430 yds... 67.8%... 7.74 YPA... 17 TD (5.4%)... 7 INT (2.2%)... 2 fumbles
99.62 QB rating
Career:
64.3%... 5.1% TD... 2.7% INT... 7.8 YPA
94.1 QB rating

[W&M_Steeler]

Ben has more interceptions than any starter except for Darnold. That's sloppy. You can say that he makes up for it with "the grey", but I am not seeing it. He's nowhere near the lead in TD passes. Sure, he leads the league in passing yards, but he had been ending too many drives with interceptions to make that matter much.

Overall Ben has merely been very good this year. He has had moments of phenomenal play, but he has had just as many moments of horrific play. Unfortunately, this team and coaching staff is not good enough to win with merely very good play from Ben.

[bradshaw2ben]

If you think Ben has equal amounts of great and horrific play his year... maybe you’re missing something.

[Havoc]

.

[W&M_Steeler]

If you think Ben has equal amounts of great and horrific play his year... maybe you’re missing something.

He's been mostly good, punctuated with occasional brilliant play and occasional terrible play. For every miracle 97 yard TD pass there's a bad red zone interception or bad miss of a wide open receiver.

[bradshaw2ben]

If you think Ben has equal amounts of great and horrific play his year... maybe you’re missing something.

He's been mostly good, punctuated with occasional brilliant play and occasional terrible play. For every miracle 97 yard TD pass there's a bad red zone interception or bad miss of a wide open receiver.

100% false. Give me just the examples off the top of your head, and you'll see it won't hold water.

[W&M_Steeler]

If you think Ben has equal amounts of great and horrific play his year... maybe you’re missing something.

He's been mostly good, punctuated with occasional brilliant play and occasional terrible play. For every miracle 97 yard TD pass there's a bad red zone interception or bad miss of a wide open receiver.

100% false. Give me just the examples off the top of your head, and you'll see it won't hold water.

You don't even think that the Atlanta end zone interception was a bad play on Ben's part. If you can excuse that play, you can excuse damn near anything. Most people are more objective.

[bradshaw2ben]

You don't even think that the Atlanta end zone interception was a bad play on Ben's part. If you can excuse that play, you can excuse damn near anything. Most people are more objective.

I never said that. I said he takes that risk at times, and it may have ultimately helped more than it hurt... but I didn't think the situation made it a good choice.

So, great, and I'll give you Denver end of the game. That's two.

Now, how about those other numerous examples you're asserting? I'd especially like to hear about the ones after that EZ INT vs Atlanta.

[Gonzo]

You could add the entirety of the first browns game
And the lollipop silly pass versus the chargers

[bradshaw2ben]

You could add the entirety of the first browns game
And the lollipop silly pass versus the chargers

Chargers INT wasn’t not a horrible WTF choice— ball slipped when on its way to a receiver open for a TD. And aside from the red zone INT and maybe a little rust, Ben wasn’t that bad in Cleveland, especially considering the weather, pass pro issues, and drops/poor play from surrounding cast.

But we’re talking about AFTER the EZ INT vs ATL to now.
Mathe assertion was that “Ben has been reckless/sloppy with the football” since ATL, which is dead wrong.

[swissvale72]

You could add the entirety of the first browns game
And the lollipop silly pass versus the chargers

Chargers INT wasn’t not a horrible WTF choice— ball slipped when on its way to a receiver open for a TD. And aside from the red zone INT and maybe a little rust, Ben wasn’t that bad in Cleveland, especially considering the weather, pass pro issues, and drops/poor play from surrounding cast.

But we’re talking about AFTER the EZ INT vs ATL to now.
Mathe assertion was that “Ben has been reckless/sloppy with the football” since ATL, which is dead wrong.

B2B...seriously...if you believe that the bolded is true, you're off your freakin' rocker!! Ben was horrendous in the opener!! Also....he was baaaad for the initial 44 minutes of the Jax game, but Ben does have the ability to be shitty and still win.