Some Positivity and a Fresh Mindset

[Ice]

Swiss, I refer you again to Scunge's (seemingly) well researched posts about Bell becoming a fumbler toward the end of his time with the Steelers. Bell's fumbles took lucky bounces, Conner's did not.

Why are you trying to use logic in a discussion with Swiss?

Don't have access to Scunge's "well researched posts," but I do have access to documented statistics.

*Last year, Connor, in 280 touches, fumbled 4 times, losing 2.
*Bell, in 2017, his final year with the Steelers, in 406 touches (428 counting the playoff game), fumbled 3 times, losing 2.

Where were all the "lucky bounces?" What's that about logic, Slobber??

So, they both lost two fumbles, Conner averaged more yards per game, per carry and per catch, and is currently playing for approximately 10% of the price the Steelers offered Bell. Yeah, we're in deep shit.

[swissvale72]

That's a different argument, Ice. I was responding specifically to the fumble convo...and Ive said from the beginning, never commented on the money, just performance

[Ice]

The yards per game, carry, catch and TD improvements don't count as performance, now that we've established that they both lost exactly two fumbles?

No chance that a 2nd year starter (who has, if you want to go out on the interwebs and look, been training his ass off) might take steps to improve going from year one to year two?

It's not that hard to see some positives.

Unfortunately, over a hundred pages of evidence exist that you're not going to change your mind.

[955876]

Connor did better than most of us, including myself, thought he would last year. Does that make him a net positive? Maybe,

Maybe? Kid had a pro bowl year his first season as a starter. It’s also quite unreasonable to expect that a RB will never put the ball on the ground. It’s football. It happens.

Odd logic to have this much contempt for a kid making his first ever career start for fumbling (after carrying the ball more times than he ever had in a game) all the while pining for the team to do whatever it took to keep Bell (they tried BTW) who is the very fucking douche that selfishly put the team in the position to begin with.

If not for Bell being a c*nt it would have been him carrying the ball that day with Connor giving him a break here and there.

So who is more at fault really?

The kid making his first ever career start or the douche that turned down a contract which would have made him the highest paid RB by far?

Instead he chose to say fuck you to his teammates, the front office, and YOU...

I’ll take Connor everyday over a dickhead like Bell that can’t get his transmission out of 3rd gear and yet thinks he is some sort of generational talent.

As soon as he loses even a tiny bit of whatever “burst” he has left he will be highly mediocre. Steelers dodged a bullet with this one.

Thanks for quoting me, '95, while leaving out the final three words of the sentence. I have no contempt for the kid...just presenting the full narrative of his '19 season. Don't know why it's so hard for you, and others, to accept, that while this kid performed beyond expectations, he had two huge fumbles, both of which arguably cost his team games.

My bad. The “I guess so” changes everything.

I’ve never stated his fumble wasn’t a factor in the loss. It definitely was.

Difference here though is that I’m placing WAY more blame on the 15 year veteran QB that turned it over FIVE times on the day over the kid making his first career start that turned it over once.

And had already surpassed a career high in carries for a game to boot.

Ben and his dipshit coach lost that game way more than Connor did.

[swissvale72]

The yards per game, carry, catch and TD improvements don't count as performance, now that we've established that they both lost exactly two fumbles?

No chance that a 2nd year starter (who has, if you want to go out on the interwebs and look, been training his ass off) might take steps to improve going from year one to year two?

It's not that hard to see some positives.

Unfortunately, over a hundred pages of evidence exist that you're not going to change your mind.

I never said he wouldn't improve. I said that the story of James Connor's 2018 season includes not only the superlatives that are widely acclaimed on this esteemed website, but those two fumbles as well, one of them definitely costing his team a win (all the bullshit denying this reality aside) and won arguably costing another win.

I don't hate the kid; I don't hold the kid in contempt. I hope he fuckin' lights up the league this year...just hoping he holds onto the football as well.

Oh...and Steelers won both games in which Bell lost fumbles. Sorry, but it makes a difference. Steelers lose to the Colts in '05 playoffs and Jerome Bettis is Bill Buckner...doubt there's Grill 36 on the North Side.

[swissvale72]

Swissvale:

Thanks for quoting me, '95, while leaving out the final three words of the sentence. I have no contempt for the kid...just presenting the full narrative of his '19 season. Don't know why it's so hard for you, and others, to accept, that while this kid performed beyond expectations, he had two huge fumbles, both of which arguably cost his team games.[/quote]

95:
My bad. The “I guess so” changes everything.

I’ve never stated his fumble wasn’t a factor in the loss. It definitely was.

Difference here though is that I’m placing WAY more blame on the 15 year veteran QB that turned it over FIVE times on the day over the kid making his first career start that turned it over once.

And had already surpassed a career high in carries for a game to boot.

Ben and his dipshit coach lost that game way more than Connor did.[/quote]

Swissvale:

No argument from me about the dipshit coach...but Steelers had already overcome Ben's picks and had the game by the ass.

[955876]

We were in a tight game because Ben had turned it over 5 times.

That is as much a factor as Connor’s fumble.

Ben plays like the 15 year veteran he should be playing like and protects the ball better it likely is an entirely different story.

[swissvale72]

We were in a tight game because Ben had turned it over 5 times.

That is as much a factor as Connor’s fumble.

Ben plays like the 15 year veteran he should be playing like and protects the ball better it likely is an entirely different story.

Game was no longer tight when Connor fumbled....Steelers had a 14-point lead, had the ball, and 7 minutes left. Steelers were winning going away....and then.....

[Ice]

Football is a team sport, Swiss.

Games, whether it fits your ongoing agenda or not, aren't decided by one play, and even if they are, I'd refer you to TB's post that follows your logic and points to all of the other players you could and should be having a neverending cow about.

[swissvale72]

Football is a team sport, Swiss.

Games, whether it fits your ongoing agenda or not, aren't decided by one play, and even if they are, I'd refer you to TB's post that follows your logic and points to all of the other players you could and should be having a neverending cow about.

Speaking of Cow....so many of you asshats have been having a full on herd since AB in December.

I'm merely pointing out that Connor's season included a pair of fumbles that cost games, regardless of how strenuously you asshats engage in machinations to deny it.

[Ice]

As long as by "machinations," you mean statistics, a view of last season that extends beyond one play in a Week One game and logic, then sure.

Congratulations on waiting this long to bring Your Mancrush AB into the discussion, though. Admirable restraint.

[955876]

We were in a tight game because Ben had turned it over 5 times.

That is as much a factor as Connor’s fumble.

Ben plays like the 15 year veteran he should be playing like and protects the ball better it likely is an entirely different story.

Game was no longer tight when Connor fumbled....Steelers had a 14-point lead, had the ball, and 7 minutes left. Steelers were winning going away....and then.....

And maybe it’s a 17, or 21, or 28 point lead if our “HOF” bound QB shows up ready for week 1 instead of playing like a kid making his first NFL START. A color blind one at that.

[swissvale72]

As long as by "machinations," you mean statistics, a view of last season that extends beyond one play in a Week One game and logic, then sure.

Congratulations on waiting this long to bring Your Mancrush AB into the discussion, though. Admirable restraint.

Now by machinations, I mean a denial of the fuckin obvious. And the mancrush od the week in which you and your friends engage is with that JAG from Jax, Moncrief.

[swissvale72]

We were in a tight game because Ben had turned it over 5 times.

That is as much a factor as Connor’s fumble.

Ben plays like the 15 year veteran he should be playing like and protects the ball better it likely is an entirely different story.

Game was no longer tight when Connor fumbled....Steelers had a 14-point lead, had the ball, and 7 minutes left. Steelers were winning going away....and then.....

And maybe it’s a 17, or 21, or 28 point lead if our “HOF” bound QB shows up ready for week 1 instead of playing like a kid making his first NFL START. A color blind one at that.

That's weak, '95...Steelers had Browns dead to rights with 7 minutes left. And funny how now to defend Connor, asshats herein are more than willing to thrown "Chip on his shoulder" Ben, the guy who will spread the ball around and won't even miss the best receiver in the NFL, under the bus.

And, I'm the one being accused of being illogical, yet there's abundant whataboutism to counter my arguments.
*The Connor narrative must include his two game-costing fumbles: "What about Ben and his picks?"
*The Connor narrative must include his two game-costing fumbles: "What about Bell and his lucky bounces?
(which doesn't seem to have happened).
*Steelers will miss a receiver with legendary work ethic and production: "What about him throwing shit off the balcony and driving 100mph on McKnight Road?

[Ice]

Conner, improvement on Bell in every statistical category, in his first year as a starter, with room to get even better. But what about his fumble in Week One?

Two sides to your coin, dude. Some people just choose to see the positive one, rather than trashing current Steelers to pine away for has beens who quit on their team.

You could also spell the guy's name correctly. He's been on the team for going on three years.

[swissvale72]

Conner, improvement on Bell in every statistical category, in his first year as a starter, with room to get even better. But what about his fumble in Week One?

Two sides to your coin, dude. Some people just choose to see the positive one, rather than trashing current Steelers to pine away for has beens who quit on their team.

You could also spell the guy's name correctly. He's been on the team for going on three years.

Whatabout the misspelling??? Priceless

Here's where you, and your fellow asshats, are all wet, Ice. There's no "trashing" from me. I've said the kid performed above expectations. But the narrative of James CONNER (satisfied?) 2018 season also includes two fumbles, one of which undoubtedly cost his team a win, and one which contributed mightily to a loss. That's all.

And now Antonio Brown is a "has been?" Here's the other fallacy in which you and others continue to engage. There's a difference between "pining away" as you accuse, and not drinking the fuckin' Kool-Aid that's in abundance on this esteemed website, not buying the addition by subtraction argument, not necessarily believing that the Pittsburgh Steelers can lose players of this caliber, continue to be coached by the same fuckin' idiot, and somehow come out of it as an improved football team.

[Lynch]

I always drink the kool aid this time of year. Sometimes I spike it with vodka.

[Scunge]

Antonio Brown is not a has been, but he is not the dominant, once-in-a-lifetime player that many claim either.

My argument the past few years is that Brown was very fortunate to be in an offense that EXCESSIVELY targeted him, featured him and that he had a Hall of Fame QB throwing to him.

My argument is that you can take any sufficiently talented WR, pair him with Ben, feature him, target him 150 times, and you will get much the same results.

JuJu was targeted 79 times as a rookie, then he was targeted 166 times in his 2nd season and responded with 111 catches and 1,426 yards. It really is that simple.

Be it Hines Ward, Holmes, Wallace, Brown, JuJu, if Ben is throwing the ball to you, targeting you over 100+ times in a season, the production, the stats will follow. This is not something that is unique to Antonio Brown because he was somehow 'special'.

Bell did indeed start fumbling the last 24 games of his Steelers career, 7 times in that span. My theory is that teams were starting to play him differently, starting to figure him out, that and the speed and quickness that he had were diminishing because of his injuries.

Funny how two virtual rookies, Conner and Samuels, combined for 16 TDs and 5 100 yard games and were better in nearly every category than Bell in 2017. And this was at one tenth the cost.

What Bell did as a Steeler was underwhelming to me. They fed him the ball, gave him his carries and catches and the most he could ever do in a season was 11 TDs?? I long argued that he should be producing 20+ TDs a season, every season with that kind of workload, yet he never did. And then Conner and JaySam in their first season together combine for 16 TDs?? And now with Snell??

I can see that trio combining for 22-25 touchdowns this season, double of what Bell ever did.

I see 2019 being a repeat of 2018 when it comes to Antonio Brown. There will be those distraught, all gloomy and doomy and predicting the end for our offense without Brown. And then just like last season, the offense will just plug in the next man/men and the offense will continue on as if nothing ever happened. Last season we didn't have Bell, plugged in Conner and then Samuels and the offense got better?? We set team records for red zone offense??

How do we go from having a Red Zone percentage of 50% in 2017 with Bell and then go to 73.5% with Conner and Samuels??

Maybe, just maybe Bell and Brown were holding this offense back. If Brown is not here being excessively fed the football, if Randy gets Ben to spread the football, distribute the football, not force things and end up with INTs maybe Ben has a career year WITHOUT Brown, maybe the offense does too.

Many worry about the 15 TDs that left town with Brown from last season. I celebrate the 10 INTs that left town with Brown because of Ben forcing the ball to Brown so much. Those 15 TDs are just going to be caught by other people this year, the difference is that if 5 of those 10 INTs from last season are not made this season then maybe Ben and the offense scores 5 more TDs.

[Ice]

If Bell had honored his contract, Conner wouldn't have been in the game to fumble, Swiss. Therefore, Bell was responsible for Conner's fumble.

Bell is an almost 30 year old RB whose best days are behind him. Your Mancrush is also leaving his prime, and will never again perform to the level he did while he was in Pittsburgh. Even if you take the egos and on and off field horse shit out of the way, which I won't, they are still a pair of players who aren't the type that successful teams sink a ton of cap and term into.

You want to live in the past, I get it. Whether that past is Week One of 2018, or the good old days of Bell and Brown where we won nothing, you're welcome to stay there.

Multiple posts in multiple threads, which you have likely ignored because they don't fit the three agendas you've been stuck on since January, have detailed the positive changes in the coaching staff as a whole since the end of the season.

How about joining us in 2019, dude?

[swissvale72]

If Bell had honored his contract, Conner wouldn't have been in the game to fumble, Swiss. Therefore, Bell was responsible for Conner's fumble.

Bell is an almost 30 year old RB whose best days are behind him. Your Mancrush is also leaving his prime, and will never again perform to the level he did while he was in Pittsburgh. Even if you take the egos and on and off field horse shit out of the way, which I won't, they are still a pair of players who aren't the type that successful teams sink a ton of cap and term into.

You want to live in the past, I get it. Whether that past is Week One of 2018, or the good old days of Bell and Brown where we won nothing, you're welcome to stay there.

Multiple posts in multiple threads, which you have likely ignored because they don't fit the three agendas you've been stuck on since January, have detailed the positive changes in the coaching staff as a whole since the end of the season.

How about joining us in 2019, dude?

You have reached a new level of stupidity ICE and that really is saying something! Now you're blaming Bell for Connor putting the ball on the ground! Call it man crushes are you want. When last in the Pittsburgh Steeler uniform, both Bell and brown found the Endzone twice . Yet we are at the believe that minus these two guys and coached by the same idiot this team will be better in 2019. Again, I hope you're right, but I'm not buying it

[swissvale72]

Antonio Brown is not a has been, but he is not the dominant, once-in-a-lifetime player that many claim either.

My argument the past few years is that Brown was very fortunate to be in an offense that EXCESSIVELY targeted him, featured him and that he had a Hall of Fame QB throwing to him.

My argument is that you can take any sufficiently talented WR, pair him with Ben, feature him, target him 150 times, and you will get much the same results.

JuJu was targeted 79 times as a rookie, then he was targeted 166 times in his 2nd season and responded with 111 catches and 1,426 yards. It really is that simple.

Be it Hines Ward, Holmes, Wallace, Brown, JuJu, if Ben is throwing the ball to you, targeting you over 100+ times in a season, the production, the stats will follow. This is not something that is unique to Antonio Brown because he was somehow 'special'.

Bell did indeed start fumbling the last 24 games of his Steelers career, 7 times in that span. My theory is that teams were starting to play him differently, starting to figure him out, that and the speed and quickness that he had were diminishing because of his injuries.

Funny how two virtual rookies, Conner and Samuels, combined for 16 TDs and 5 100 yard games and were better in nearly every category than Bell in 2017. And this was at one tenth the cost.

What Bell did as a Steeler was underwhelming to me. They fed him the ball, gave him his carries and catches and the most he could ever do in a season was 11 TDs?? I long argued that he should be producing 20+ TDs a season, every season with that kind of workload, yet he never did. And then Conner and JaySam in their first season together combine for 16 TDs?? And now with Snell??

I can see that trio combining for 22-25 touchdowns this season, double of what Bell ever did.

I see 2019 being a repeat of 2018 when it comes to Antonio Brown. There will be those distraught, all gloomy and doomy and predicting the end for our offense without Brown. And then just like last season, the offense will just plug in the next man/men and the offense will continue on as if nothing ever happened. Last season we didn't have Bell, plugged in Conner and then Samuels and the offense got better?? We set team records for red zone offense??

How do we go from having a Red Zone percentage of 50% in 2017 with Bell and then go to 73.5% with Conner and Samuels??

Maybe, just maybe Bell and Brown were holding this offense back. If Brown is not here being excessively fed the football, if Randy gets Ben to spread the football, distribute the football, not force things and end up with INTs maybe Ben has a career year WITHOUT Brown, maybe the offense does too.

Many worry about the 15 TDs that left town with Brown from last season. I celebrate the 10 INTs that left town with Brown because of Ben forcing the ball to Brown so much. Those 15 TDs are just going to be caught by other people this year, the difference is that if 5 of those 10 INTs from last season are not made this season then maybe Ben and the offense scores 5 more TDs.

You really think those 10 pics left town with a B? I know there's disbelief that been forced the ball to OB keep him happy. I tend to believe it was more the case that a beat was the guy that he could most and on… To get open and to make the catches. Also tend to believe that the number of targets juju had last year was to at least in part to a be drawn with double teams. This year, jujube drawn with double teams? Will he be as productive? Excuse the voice to text, but I think you ass hat's can decipher except ICE probably can't without every word spelled perfectly

[Ice]

If Bell had honored his contract, Conner wouldn't have been in the game to fumble, Swiss. Therefore, Bell was responsible for Conner's fumble.

Bell is an almost 30 year old RB whose best days are behind him. Your Mancrush is also leaving his prime, and will never again perform to the level he did while he was in Pittsburgh. Even if you take the egos and on and off field horse shit out of the way, which I won't, they are still a pair of players who aren't the type that successful teams sink a ton of cap and term into.

You want to live in the past, I get it. Whether that past is Week One of 2018, or the good old days of Bell and Brown where we won nothing, you're welcome to stay there.

Multiple posts in multiple threads, which you have likely ignored because they don't fit the three agendas you've been stuck on since January, have detailed the positive changes in the coaching staff as a whole since the end of the season.

How about joining us in 2019, dude?

You have reached a new level of stupidity ICE and that really is saying something! Now you're blaming Bell for Connor putting the ball on the ground! Call it man crushes are you want. When last in the Pittsburgh Steeler uniform, both Bell and brown found the Endzone twice . Yet we are at the believe that minus these two guys and coached by the same idiot this team will be better in 2019. Again, I hope you're right, but I'm not buying it

It's about the same level as blaming one of the six turnovers as the reason they lost, and then whining about it to justify your sorry decision to whine about the loss of your selfish, quitter, toxic man crushes and live in a past where the Steelers won exactly as many Super Bowls as they've already won without them. Your stupid posts on this subject have polluted this site for months. You've gone full troll, and have added less of substance than Lynch to the conversation since January. It's like a broken 8 track, to put it in terms you'll understand.

I mean, what's a win for you in continuing with this crap? Do think the 1,117th time, someone is just going to break down and agree with you? Nobody else wants to live in the past, wish your guys were still on the team, etc. You know this. So, are you really this desperate for any kind of attention you can get, or can you come up with something new to add and move on?

[swissvale72]

If Bell had honored his contract, Conner wouldn't have been in the game to fumble, Swiss. Therefore, Bell was responsible for Conner's fumble.

Bell is an almost 30 year old RB whose best days are behind him. Your Mancrush is also leaving his prime, and will never again perform to the level he did while he was in Pittsburgh. Even if you take the egos and on and off field horse shit out of the way, which I won't, they are still a pair of players who aren't the type that successful teams sink a ton of cap and term into.

You want to live in the past, I get it. Whether that past is Week One of 2018, or the good old days of Bell and Brown where we won nothing, you're welcome to stay there.

Multiple posts in multiple threads, which you have likely ignored because they don't fit the three agendas you've been stuck on since January, have detailed the positive changes in the coaching staff as a whole since the end of the season.

How about joining us in 2019, dude?

You have reached a new level of stupidity ICE and that really is saying something! Now you're blaming Bell for Connor putting the ball on the ground! Call it man crushes are you want. When last in the Pittsburgh Steeler uniform, both Bell and brown found the Endzone twice . Yet we are at the believe that minus these two guys and coached by the same idiot this team will be better in 2019. Again, I hope you're right, but I'm not buying it

It's about the same level as blaming one of the six turnovers as the reason they lost, and then whining about it to justify your sorry decision to whine about the loss of your selfish, quitter, toxic man crushes and live in a past where the Steelers won exactly as many Super Bowls as they've already won without them. Your stupid posts on this subject have polluted this site for months. You've gone full troll, and have added less of substance than Lynch to the conversation since January. It's like a broken 8 track, to put it in terms you'll understand.[/quot

Yet, being an unparallelled dumb fuck, You keep responding? And now, perhaps reaching the depths of stupidity, but I'm confident you have further to go, you blame a guy that is in street clothes for another player fumbling

[Ice]

Really just tired and irritated at your useless, recycled garbage posts shitting on every thread. Get a life, or maybe a new act that you haven't been running into the ground for months. Maybe you wouldn't have to resort to lame profanity and childish name calling if you had either one or the other. Jesus.

[Lynch]

Yet, being an unparallelled dumb fuck, You keep responding? And now, perhaps reaching the depths of stupidity, but I'm confident you have further to go, you blame a guy that is in street clothes for another player fumbling

I believe ice has been smoking ice for quite some time now. When tweekers get all geetered out like that they can't help themselves.

[swissvale72]

Really just tired and irritated at your useless, recycled garbage posts shitting on every thread. Get a life, or maybe a new act that you haven't been running into the ground for months. Maybe you wouldn't have to resort to lame profanity and childish name calling if you had either one or the other. Jesus.

Boo hoo hoo!! Poor baby ICE is getting irritated!

For the record, you fucking crybaby, the lead off to this op raise questions about Conor, there was a response to that assessment, I then gave my opinion. If that's considered shitting on a thread, then I guess I'm guilty

[Louis Lipps Service]

Oh look, another thread where Swiss is crying. Who woulda thunk?

[swissvale72]

Oh look, another thread where Swiss is crying. Who woulda thunk?

ICE's twin dumbfuck weighing in. Who woulda thunk?

[swissvale72]

Oh look, another thread where Swiss is crying. Who woulda thunk?

ICE's twin dumbfuck weighing in. Who woulda thunk?

[Louis Lipps Service]

Oh look, another thread where Swiss is crying. Who woulda thunk?

ICE's twin dumbfuck weighing in. Who woulda thunk?

Hey, I'm just saying, you keep blaming everyone else for devolving threads...yet you're the common denominator in all of them.