Was Ben Actually That Bad

[Steeler Owl]

Wrong question. The question should be was he good enough. The answer to that throughout his career leans heavily to yes. The answer regarding Raiders game is no. A career pedestrian QB outplayed him.

[K_C_]

For those who are in the “Ben is washed” camp or “Ben can’t hit anyone in stride”, I’d like to hear your comments on these throws which I posted earlier in the thread:

41 yards to DJ. (Third throw in the highlights. First two throws are also quality.)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JsRjocbnDlg

52 yards to Claypool.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rQ5vpJhv1-M

If I may, I believe the rejoinder is going to go something like: Ben is a Hall of Fame QB. Of course he is still going to have flashes. But he is no longer going to be consistently great on every drive, every throw, and certainly not the entirety of every game.

Indeed, it might be helpful to stipulate what washed means.

Ben is slower to react now. Slower in his ability to make a decision and for his body to do what his brain wants. He can’t evade pass rushers at all. When he’s forced to tuck it and run, he looks like a 1930’s Mummy movie.

He doesn’t have the same zip on his passes. What was once an elite arm is now pretty good. He has zero chemistry with his receivers anymore and I’m not sure they believe in him 100% anymore. I don’t think Ben believes in himself anymore all that much. He looks frustrated because he isn’t able to do what once came so easy.

That’s my take and why I think he’s washed.

[stinger8]

Well back from 18 days in beautiful Italia. I watched the Raider game in Rome at La Boticella pub, renowned Steeler bar owned and run by Giovanni who was born in Rome but grew up in Toronto.... a Canadian running the Steeler bar in Rome. Wow.. Sat beside Gina from the Burgh on her honeymoon (her husband, a nice fella is from Oakland so who got the last laugh ).

Its early things can change, agree maybe some more work will help, but essentially reading lots of Benonite propaganda, the Benabling is approaching a fever pitch. I think it appears to be obvious, he is at the end of the line, 18 NFL seasons is a long time and he is not built to be a marathon type athlete. I will be happy to eat crow if required but if not when will the Benonites come out and stop with the excuses, stop with the look he made A great throw here bullshit after several mediocre throws and admit their lack of objectivity???

[Stallworth16]

I’m content to hear you guys actually watched those throws. I didn’t expect to change anyone’s mind but the trajectories on those throws are top notch.

Stinger8, we don’t see eye to eye on Ben, but I was in Italy in 2019, it’s beautiful indeed and thanks for sharing about your trip.

[K_C_]

I’m content to hear you guys actually watched those throws. I didn’t expect to change anyone’s mind but the trajectories on those throws are top notch.

Stinger8, we don’t see eye to eye on Ben, but I was in Italy in 2019, it’s beautiful indeed and thanks for sharing about your trip.

Just curious, where do you rank Ben among the QB’s in the AFC North right now?

[Stallworth16]

KC, I wouldn’t even try to rank QBs after two games. I do think Ben’s pec injury may affect him this week. My current stance that Ben is still good is based on what I’m seeing on the field and in his throws and reads, while dealing with a young offensive line that is far from together yet, and a new OC. I would expect even more trouble from Mason if he gets on the field.

Tom Brady has shown that is not a question of age but performance. Ben has experience and a good arm after surgery. I think he’s got more left in the tank.

[Jobu]

that were high fiving over the Haley hire because he was finally going to force Ben to play “the right way”.

Well, to be fair there, getting Ben to mature as a QB really isn’t forcing anything and was only for his own benefit. And the offense in general.

Not doing basic & elementary things such as hitting an open check down rather than getting sacked is smart football rather than “forcing the right way”

Just saying.

Other QBs manage to sling it around and still do basic things like hitting a check down.

It’s excuse making to not hold Ben to that standard.

Other than Tom Brady, the greatest QB to ever play the game, no one else measures up.
3 Super Bowl appearances, two championships.
Yeah, they needed to teach the guy a lesson…horseshit!
I wonder how Todd Haley’s high school team is doing this season…

[K_C_]

KC, I wouldn’t even try to rank QBs after two games. I do think Ben’s pec injury may affect him this week. My current stance that Ben is still good is based on what I’m seeing on the field and in his throws and reads, while dealing with a young offensive line that is far from together yet, and a new OC. I would expect even more trouble from Mason if he gets on the field.

Tom Brady has shown that is not a question of age but performance. Ben has experience and a good arm after surgery. I think he’s got more left in the tank.

Okay, I'll check back with you down the road.

[K_C_]

that were high fiving over the Haley hire because he was finally going to force Ben to play “the right way”.

Well, to be fair there, getting Ben to mature as a QB really isn’t forcing anything and was only for his own benefit. And the offense in general.

Not doing basic & elementary things such as hitting an open check down rather than getting sacked is smart football rather than “forcing the right way”

Just saying.

Other QBs manage to sling it around and still do basic things like hitting a check down.

It’s excuse making to not hold Ben to that standard.

Other than Tom Brady, the greatest QB to ever play the game, no one else measures up.
3 Super Bowl appearances, two championships.
Yeah, they needed to teach the guy a lesson…horseshit!
I wonder how Todd Haley’s high school team is doing this season…

Ben's last Super Bowl appearance was a decade ago.

[Roeth2Rudolph]

I wonder how Todd Haley’s high school team is doing this season…

The offense is probably on par with the Steelers lol

[zeke5123]

Wrong question. The question should be was he good enough. The answer to that throughout his career leans heavily to yes. The answer regarding Raiders game is no. A career pedestrian QB outplayed him.

Ben didn't play on defense. Carr was picking on the back ups of the back ups.

[K_C_]

Wrong question. The question should be was he good enough. The answer to that throughout his career leans heavily to yes. The answer regarding Raiders game is no. A career pedestrian QB outplayed him.

Ben didn't play on defense. Carr was picking on the back ups of the back ups.

Carr also outplayed Lamar Jackson who just beat Patrick Mahomes and the Chiefs.

...and the game sealing, perfectly thrown bomb from Carr schooled one of my favorite Steelers players who is hardly a back up, Minkah Fitzpatrick.

Carr also picked up numerous first downs all on his own, something Ben refuses to do.

[Steeler Owl]

Wrong question. The question should be was he good enough. The answer to that throughout his career leans heavily to yes. The answer regarding Raiders game is no. A career pedestrian QB outplayed him.

Ben didn't play on defense. Carr was picking on the back ups of the back ups.

No but a bunch of guys who had given up 400+ yards to the Ravens were playing defense for LV. Good thing a mummy from a 30's movie wasnt trying to tackle Carr.

Someone asked where Ben would rank among AFC QB? About even with Davis Mills?

[RemoAZ]

Todd Haley Says He Had ‘Good’ Relationship With Ben Roethlisberger But Admits It Was A Tenuous Situation

https://steelersdepot.com/2021/09/todd- ... situation/

[Havoc]

It's going to be funny if this offense starts producing with Ben at the helm at some point this season after all the nay sayers.

Good grief on the writing off the vet HOF QB who's arm has not yet fallen off a cliff.

Even our WRs will come alive if this OL can become a solid unit AND we will get production from our 1st round pick.

We did a major overhaul on the OL, it's only September. Has Turner hit his peak this season? I don't know. Maybe we can get some push in the run game at RT if Banner makes an appearance at some point this season. Chuks ceiling is a wall off finesse LT... didn't he start football late if I recall correctly? Maybe he'll be a late bloomer who is not ready and out of position at RT. And we are starting 2 rookies... what will they look like late this season?

It's September football!

Canada looks like Randy 2.0 so far. Ryan Clark noted (article Steelman58 linked) that Canada loves him some lateral offense.

I saw that too in that article.

Not good.

[Stallworth16]

Ringer article from today on Canada and Ben. There’s some interesting stuff in here:

https://www.theringer.com/nfl/2021/9/24 ... att-canada

[DP39]

Ringer article from today on Canada and Ben. There’s some interesting stuff in here:

https://www.theringer.com/nfl/2021/9/24 ... att-canada

Thanks, Stallworth. Good article. Granted, it doesn't answer all of the OC/QB questions, but it does give us insight into a few of the issues that some here have been seeing with their own eyes for a while now.

As for the Ben and Brady comparison, it's not quite fair; Brady's O line gives him way more time and a much better pocket to make his plays.

[COR-TEN]

Ringer article from today on Canada and Ben. There’s some interesting stuff in here:

https://www.theringer.com/nfl/2021/9/24 ... att-canada

This article confirms something I've suspected since the beginning of last year. BR is afraid to throw INT's in the middle of the field, and doesn't trust his WR's to either break up the pass or catch the ball while contested. He only trusts JuJu.

[Roeth2Rudolph]

They're just parroting what Lynch said on twitter.

[Kodiak]

This article confirms something I've suspected since the beginning of last year. BR is afraid to throw INT's in the middle of the field, and doesn't trust his WR's to either break up the pass or catch the ball while contested. He only trusts JuJu.

But you should know, when watching Ben in the two minute drills or no huddle (when he actually calls the plays), that this simply is not true. This is just more silly bullshit - Ben has NEVER been shy about throwing the ball into tight windows or overly concerned with interceptions. So why anyone would think Ben is afraid of throwing to the middle of the field is beyond me.

Ben runs the plays that are called. For the people who still don't believe that, he literally told us just this past week.

Avoiding the middle of the field starts with Mike Tomlin - you know, he of the "not living in our fears" and "probing" and "easing". This offense doesn't scheme guys open in the middle of the field. Hasn't for years and years. The complaints of the "U-shaped" offense aren't a recent development. It's completely obvious that the U-shaped offense is Tomlin's dictate.

[Orangesteel]

Tomlin and probing. Name a more famous duo?!

[stinger8]

This article confirms something I've suspected since the beginning of last year. BR is afraid to throw INT's in the middle of the field, and doesn't trust his WR's to either break up the pass or catch the ball while contested. He only trusts JuJu.

But you should know, when watching Ben in the two minute drills or no huddle (when he actually calls the plays), that this simply is not true. This is just more silly bullshit - Ben has NEVER been shy about throwing the ball into tight windows or overly concerned with interceptions. So why anyone would think Ben is afraid of throwing to the middle of the field is beyond me.

Ben runs the plays that are called. For the people who still don't believe that, he literally told us just this past week.

Avoiding the middle of the field starts with Mike Tomlin - you know, he of the "not living in our fears" and "probing" and "easing". This offense doesn't scheme guys open in the middle of the field. Hasn't for years and years. The complaints of the "U-shaped" offense aren't a recent development. It's completely obvious that the U-shaped offense is Tomlin's dictate.

This is the epitome of BENABLING, which is rampant here. "Ben runs the plays that are called" where then is Ben that goes no huddle and calls all his own plays?? He is lauded for drawing plays in the dirt and now he calls the plays that are called. Fuck the constant "spin" and excuses are dizzying.

[Kodiak]

This is the epitome of BENABLING, which is rampant here. "Ben runs the plays that are called" where then is Ben that goes no huddle and calls all his own plays?? He is lauded for drawing plays in the dirt and now he calls the plays that are called. Fuck the constant "spin" and excuses are dizzying.

It's not spin. It's a fact, a fact Ben has STATED more than once. I'm not "BENABLING", just stating the obvious. Don't be such a douche with your alternate "facts".

You come off as either a moron or someone who never played organized sports. Ben is not the OC and never has been. It's not rocket science. He runs the plays that are called, like every other QB that ever played the position. When they decide to go hurry-up or no huddle, THEN he's calling a lot of the plays himself. And, actually, that is a bit of hyperbole, too, as I remember Arians years ago saying he's still talking to Ben over the radio in those situations and "reminding him to call a running play once in a while".

Ignoring coaches and going rogue on playcalls is not, and never has been, tolerated for long in any sport on any level. So, yeah, Ben runs the plays that are called.

[Professor Half Wit]

This article confirms something I've suspected since the beginning of last year. BR is afraid to throw INT's in the middle of the field, and doesn't trust his WR's to either break up the pass or catch the ball while contested. He only trusts JuJu.

But you should know, when watching Ben in the two minute drills or no huddle (when he actually calls the plays), that this simply is not true. This is just more silly bullshit - Ben has NEVER been shy about throwing the ball into tight windows or overly concerned with interceptions. So why anyone would think Ben is afraid of throwing to the middle of the field is beyond me.

Ben runs the plays that are called. For the people who still don't believe that, he literally told us just this past week.

Avoiding the middle of the field starts with Mike Tomlin - you know, he of the "not living in our fears" and "probing" and "easing". This offense doesn't scheme guys open in the middle of the field. Hasn't for years and years. The complaints of the "U-shaped" offense aren't a recent development. It's completely obvious that the U-shaped offense is Tomlin's dictate.

I wish someone would provide a passing chart indexed to routes run for every play for the past three seasons.

[Jizz Mop]

Anyone know anyone who specializes in Stats Projects?

[stinger8]

This is the epitome of BENABLING, which is rampant here. "Ben runs the plays that are called" where then is Ben that goes no huddle and calls all his own plays?? He is lauded for drawing plays in the dirt and now he calls the plays that are called. Fuck the constant "spin" and excuses are dizzying.

It's not spin. It's a fact, a fact Ben has STATED more than once. I'm not "BENABLING", just stating the obvious. Don't be such a douche with your alternate "facts".

You come off as either a moron or someone who never played organized sports. Ben is not the OC and never has been. It's not rocket science. He runs the plays that are called, like every other QB that ever played the position. When they decide to go hurry-up or no huddle, THEN he's calling a lot of the plays himself. And, actually, that is a bit of hyperbole, too, as I remember Arians years ago saying he's still talking to Ben over the radio in those situations and "reminding him to call a running play once in a while".

Ignoring coaches and going rogue on playcalls is not, and never has been, tolerated for long in any sport on any level. So, yeah, Ben runs the plays that are called.

I am not going to pull out my sports playing "resume", that would be douchish. But I would bet, a significant amount, that I played sports, football specifically, at a much higher level than you.

The Pittsburgh Steelers right now have a lot of problems, just like I have been saying all off season. I predicted they would be right around 500, we will see how that turns out, but right now that sure looks probable. I asked B2B to save a specific post, as I don't have the technical know how or motivation to figure out how to find that stuff.

The QB is not the specific reason they are it looks like a 500ish team, again I will be happy to eat crow if they put it together and go on a run. Your messiah has played meh so far and he owns that, all your excuses are just that excuses, You know the saying excuses are for.....??

Here is a recent QB rating from NFL.com where your cult leader is ranked 19th after 2 games. Right now he is behind Teddy Bridgewater, Baker Mayfield (just like I said), Tyrod Taylor, David Jones you know a whos who of QB excellence.

https://www.nfl.com/news/nfl-qb-index-w ... n-rankings

I agree that better O line play would be a big help, might get #7 to jump from 19 to 13 or 14 but that's it, best case middle of the pack, With an elite (healthy) D that could be playoff team. Lots of might's and could's in there.

"See the situation as it is not as you wish it was or want it to be".

[Professor Half Wit]

Anyone know anyone who specializes in Stats Projects?

Indeed. Sure, Ben runs the plays that are called. But that does not mean that no routes are run over the middle and no one is telling Ben which receiver to throw to. He’s the QB. He scans the field and he decides whom to throw to. Kodiak and others may be right that no routes go over the middle or rarely do or are lazily designed routes when it happens. Don’t believe it.

Passing charts. Indexed to the routes run. Ben’s past three seasons. Would love to see it.

[Roeth2Rudolph]

A project of that magnitude could be tackled by one man and one man only.

[Deebo]

Well Ben was certainly bad yesterday