Laundry Jones - Fury legend or crashes back to Earth?

[Havoc]

I will add this to the Jones equation today...

Zero plays made with his legs. Young Ben did this. Medium aged Ben did this. Lot's of qb's do this.

I will say this again... 13 points is not enough. And Landry had all the weapons on offense for 4 quarters today.

The fact Landry did not help his team by making any key scrambles for a first down is a factor.

If a guy is going to be a statue, his passing numbers had better be good unless you are putting it in the EZ with the run game.

That performance from Landry today is how you play well enough to think you have a chance but it really isn't good enough.

[Steelcody7]

Haley's idiocy deserves it's own thread, my avatar should remind everyone of that.

The Steelers success rests with Ben Roethlisberger. He's that damn valuable and good. Taking Bell out on 3rd and 4th down EVER is fucking stupid. I don't fault Landry Jones for the play calling. His second INT was caused by Brown, but it was tipped before ever reaching Brown. It wasn't a good throw.

[jeemie]

I agree with you Havoc, that Jones was not great. He wasn't giving you the kind of game where a QB can will his team to victory when nothing else is working.

But he was not trash, and that is the accusation from which I was defending him.

[Steelcody7]

I agree with you Havoc, that Jones was not great. He wasn't giving you the kind of game where a QB can will his team to victory when nothing else is working.

But he was not trash, and that is the accusation from which I was defending him.

I was harsh, but he wasn't good.

I believe his QBR was 60. Several key misses.

[K_C_]

I don't recall that being a TD drop by Williams, I thought it was a first down drop.

Guys drop passes on occasion. That is part of it. Noone dropped a pass in the EZ. I didn't see anything different from Jones on the field from his numbers except the bad fortune of the 1 pick and maybe getting blind sided for a FF.

Only a retard doesn't score if that ball is caught....at the 1 yard line.

With no one else near him.

[Legacy User]

Landry Jones is trash, why aren't there 20 threads saying so?

Vick got blasted and even he did much better than Jones 3 fucking turnovers.

Landry Jones was average, not trash. He did come back to earth, but does not deserve to be ripped on like that.

When allowed to play, save for one pass where he lost track of the underneath defender and threw a bad interception, he made the throws when he had to. Williams dropped a likely TD pass...at the very least, would have made it first and goal in close. Second INT was on Brown. Final turnover was a great individual play by Tamba Hali

They went almost a full quarter without Bell getting a touch.

They went almost a full quarter without Jones throwing a pass.

How is that kind of play calling setting up your third string QB up for success?

I agree...one thing we learned thru this is jones is not a wasted roster spot...but vick is..

[Havoc]

I don't recall that being a TD drop by Williams, I thought it was a first down drop.

Guys drop passes on occasion. That is part of it. Noone dropped a pass in the EZ. I didn't see anything different from Jones on the field from his numbers except the bad fortune of the 1 pick and maybe getting blind sided for a FF.

Only a retard doesn't score if that ball is caught....at the 1 yard line.

With no one else near him.

That's actually a very poor assessment of that play.

He ran out of bounds at the 3 yd line for what would have been a first down if he had hung onto the football. There is zero indication he would have scored on that play. There is zero indication he was not going to run out of bounds if he had hung onto the football.

Also, there was a defender closing on him while Williams had his back turned to the defender trying to catch the football.

That was not a TD drop. It was a first down drop.

[Minkah'n History]

Hey "Cody" ( ...anybody named "Cody" just needs to come out of the closet)

One of those INT's was on Antonio Brown.

Deangelo Williams dropped what should have been a TD pass.

Landry played fine.

I know you expected greatness. Sorry you didn't get it.

No, you're wrong...he definitely didn't play "fine". If you think he played fine then good luck trying to win an NFL game with any QB turning it over 3 times.

Fine? He was erratic throughout the game...his deep throws weren't even thrown in bounds to let our playmakers go get em.

Having said that, this is what should expect from a 3/4 string QB...did he play winning football? I don't think he did.

[Havoc]

3rd and 2 from the 6 and Williams dropped the pass between the 1 and the goal line with body momentum carrying him toward the EZ. Not the end of the world but the little things do matter and it definitely could have changed the momentum of the game if we could have taken the lead.

That's a very poor assessment of that play.

He ran out of bounds at the 3 yd line for what would have been a first down if he had hung onto the football. There is zero indication he would have scored on that play. There is zero indication he was not going to run out of bounds if he had hung onto the football.

Also, there was a defender closing on him while Williams had his back turned to the defender trying to catch the football.

That was not a TD drop. It was a first down drop.

[stinger8]

Haters gonna hate. The guy was starting his first NFL game, on the road, in a hostile environment against a pretty good D. Our #1 QB was about the same his first season, go check the stat lines. #3 was responsible for the 1 interception, the other 2 turnovers were not on him. Saying he was responsible for a fumble when he got rocked, blind side is just silly. Villy looked like the rookie he is on that play, but that's what rookies do, part of the process.

He actually had better numbers than I predicted. I said about 170 yards passing he had 209. The difference was our D, did not hold down a pretty bad offense. Lots of guys talking about our D, bending and not breaking, but we were ranked 23rd in yards per game and 27 in pass D. Sooner or later it catches up with you. 2 sacks very little pressure. Jones played well enough to give us a chance if we could have played inspired D. Dont forget the 4th down gamble which I did not like that took points off he board. In a game like this you kick FG's, play tough D, hope for a key turnover and win 17 to 14.

We have a legit number 2, Colbert did not waste another pick.

[Thrillsseeker]

Tomhaley & Co. basically wasted two quarters with just backwards ass playcalling. On the 5 minute drive in the second quarter that ended in the complete failure of a 4th and 1 play, Bell was kicking everyone's ass up and down the field, and he is taken out of the game when you need one yard because apparently he has shown he cannot obtain an important yard (SAN DIEGO).

Before my time but my uncle told me that Paul Brown had both Jim Brown and LeRoy Kelly who was supposed to be a hell of a RB and played them both. How the fuck can they do that back in the stone age and cant do the same with Bell & Williams, Throw in Bryant, Heath, DivaBrown and you have one fuckin potent offense, even with Jones being erratic.

Exactly. Instead Haley calls shit plays with a back up to the fucking back up forcing a passing O instead of hammering down with the running game. Or even the screen pass or a dink and dunk approach using the RB's. Oodles of fucking time eliminating Bell was just fucking ridiculous.

I, admit wanted Haley to stick around this season so Ben and the team wouldn't have to learn a different/terminology etc.

I'm currently sitting on, he can't fucking leave town soon enough.

[jeemie]

Exactly. Instead Haley calls shit plays with a back up to the fucking back up forcing a passing O instead of hammering down with the running game. Or even the screen pass or a dink and dunk approach using the RB's. Oodles of fucking time eliminating Bell was just fucking ridiculous.

It's not that he called a pass-heavy offense or a run-heavy offense...it's just that he went from one to the other with seemingly no plan on how it would fit together.

Haley's job should have been simple. Landry can run Haley's offense. So all Haley had to do was game plan for Landry to run his offense.

He didn't do that- instead we were subjected to a long run where Jones never threw a pass, a long run where Le'veon bell never touched the ball, subbing out our skill guys with Will Johnson and Darius Heyward-Bey, etc.

How in the world was any of that going to assist Landry Jones in finding a groove?

Just run the fucking offense. Then, if Jones was still scattershot, you would have at least known it was him.

But Haley did not help his third-string QB AT ALL.

PS Another thing I am curious about. What I know about football could fit on the head of a pin. But why is it that coaches (and not just our coaches, but most coaches) always try and protect a QB that's struggling by only letting him pass on obvious passing downs and distances? It is blindingly obvious to me that this just puts more pressure on a struggling QB, and yet it seems most coaches opt for this strategy- run on first, run on second, and only on third down let the QB pass...and then only if you have to.

It seems a better way would be to find safe, easy passing plays in NON-obvious passing situations to try and get the QB in some sort of a groove- because in today's NFL, you cannot win if your QB struggles, and trying to hide him simply does not work.

is there something I'm missing? is it just the extremely risk-averse nature of coaches that make them pursue this sub-optimal strategy?

[Havoc]

Exactly. Instead Haley calls shit plays with a back up to the fucking back up forcing a passing O instead of hammering down with the running game. Or even the screen pass or a dink and dunk approach using the RB's. Oodles of fucking time eliminating Bell was just fucking ridiculous.

It's not that he called a pass-heavy offense or a run-heavy offense...it's just that he went from one to the other with seemingly no plan on how it would fit together.

Haley's job should have been simple. Landry can run Haley's offense. So all Haley had to do was game plan for Landry to run his offense.

He didn't do that- instead we were subjected to a long run where Jones never threw a pass, a long run where Le'veon bell never touched the ball, subbing out our skill guys with Will Johnson and Darius Heyward-Bey, etc.

How in the world was any of that going to assist Landry Jones in finding a groove?

Just run the fucking offense. Then, if Jones was still scattershot, you would have at least known it was him.

But Haley did not help his third-string QB AT ALL.

PS Another thing I am curious about. What I know about football could fit on the head of a pin. But why is it that coaches (and not just our coaches, but most coaches) always try and protect a QB that's struggling by only letting him pass on obvious passing downs and distances? It is blindingly obvious to me that this just puts more pressure on a struggling QB, and yet it seems most coaches opt for this strategy- run on first, run on second, and only on third down let the QB pass...and then only if you have to.

It seems a better way would be to find safe, easy passing plays in NON-obvious passing situations to try and get the QB in some sort of a groove- because in today's NFL, you cannot win if your QB struggles, and trying to hide him simply does not work.

is there something I'm missing? is it just the extremely risk-averse nature of coaches that make them pursue this sub-optimal strategy?

You and I agree on the impact of passing for lighting up scoreboards.

I skimmed over the article that you posted in another thread. Is there anything in the article addressing bad to mediocre qb's and backup qb's?

The only thing I noticed in that article is the impact of passing when you have a difference making QB. It looked to me like they then compared teams with difference making qb's to teams with bad to average qb's. Like I said I did not read it, I only skimmed over some of it so maybe that is not correct.

I do wonder if the same "rules" apply when playing your 4th qb.

Also, plug and play backup qb's and plug and play backup point guards are probably more the exception than the rule. Even if the backup can run the "system" there are often going to be skillset differences the coach is going to try to milk or hide (we hope).

[Jobu]

I don't recall that being a TD drop by Williams, I thought it was a first down drop.

Guys drop passes on occasion. That is part of it. Noone dropped a pass in the EZ. I didn't see anything different from Jones on the field from his numbers except the bad fortune of the 1 pick and maybe getting blind sided for a FF.

Only a retard doesn't score if that ball is caught....at the 1 yard line.

With no one else near him.

That's actually a very poor assessment of that play.

He ran out of bounds at the 3 yd line for what would have been a first down if he had hung onto the football. There is zero indication he would have scored on that play. There is zero indication he was not going to run out of bounds if he had hung onto the football.

Also, there was a defender closing on him while Williams had his back turned to the defender trying to catch the football.

That was not a TD drop. It was a first down drop.

I had to check my DVR...this is true. He would've had the 1st down...highly unlikely he scores. Stepped OOB around the 3 with a DB closing quickly.

[jeemie]

I had to check my DVR...this is true. He would've had the 1st down...highly unlikely he scores. Stepped OOB around the 3 with a DB closing quickly.

Important thing is it's first down instead of fourth down.

[jeemie]

Exactly. Instead Haley calls shit plays with a back up to the fucking back up forcing a passing O instead of hammering down with the running game. Or even the screen pass or a dink and dunk approach using the RB's. Oodles of fucking time eliminating Bell was just fucking ridiculous.

It's not that he called a pass-heavy offense or a run-heavy offense...it's just that he went from one to the other with seemingly no plan on how it would fit together.

Haley's job should have been simple. Landry can run Haley's offense. So all Haley had to do was game plan for Landry to run his offense.

He didn't do that- instead we were subjected to a long run where Jones never threw a pass, a long run where Le'veon bell never touched the ball, subbing out our skill guys with Will Johnson and Darius Heyward-Bey, etc.

How in the world was any of that going to assist Landry Jones in finding a groove?

Just run the fucking offense. Then, if Jones was still scattershot, you would have at least known it was him.

But Haley did not help his third-string QB AT ALL.

PS Another thing I am curious about. What I know about football could fit on the head of a pin. But why is it that coaches (and not just our coaches, but most coaches) always try and protect a QB that's struggling by only letting him pass on obvious passing downs and distances? It is blindingly obvious to me that this just puts more pressure on a struggling QB, and yet it seems most coaches opt for this strategy- run on first, run on second, and only on third down let the QB pass...and then only if you have to.

It seems a better way would be to find safe, easy passing plays in NON-obvious passing situations to try and get the QB in some sort of a groove- because in today's NFL, you cannot win if your QB struggles, and trying to hide him simply does not work.

is there something I'm missing? is it just the extremely risk-averse nature of coaches that make them pursue this sub-optimal strategy?

You and I agree on the impact of passing for lighting up scoreboards.

I skimmed over the article that you posted in another thread. Is there anything in the article addressing bad to mediocre qb's and backup qb's?

The only thing I noticed in that article is the impact of passing when you have a difference making QB. It looked to me like they then compared teams with difference making qb's to teams with bad to average qb's. Like I said I did not read it, I only skimmed over some of it so maybe that is not correct.

I do wonder if the same "rules" apply when playing your 4th qb.

Also, plug and play backup qb's and plug and play backup point guards are probably more the exception than the rule. Even if the backup can run the "system" there are often going to be skillset differences the coach is going to try to milk or hide (we hope).

The first set of graphs only had data from playoff teams.

The correlation graphs later in the article were graphs of the correlation between rushing efficiency and wins and passing efficiency and wins. The data there included the rushing, passing, and wins stats of EVERY team from 2003 to 2012.

[Legacy User]

Le'veon Bell rushed he ball 17x and caught another 4 balls. 21 touches was far far too low a number with a Landry Jones at QB. If ever there was a game to run the wheels off Bell, and get him closer to 30-35 touches be it rushing or receiving and sprinkle in some PA passing, that was the game. Having Laundry try to do a Dan Marino impersonation and throw the ball around the yard 29x was stupid.

[lifelongsteel]

Le'veon Bell rushed he ball 17x and caught another 4 balls. 21 touches was far far too low a number with a Landry Jones at QB. If ever there was a game to run the wheels off Bell, and get him closer to 30-35 touches be it rushing or receiving and sprinkle in some PA passing, that was the game. Having Laundry try to do a Dan Marino impersonation and throw the ball around the yard 29x was stupid.

Yes. This whole Landry didn't pass enough argument is a) actually not true (game time without a pass is being presented as the issue when pass/run ratio and down distance mix were all fine) and b) on it's face a ridiculous position to take anyway

[jeemie]

Le'veon Bell rushed he ball 17x and caught another 4 balls. 21 touches was far far too low a number with a Landry Jones at QB. If ever there was a game to run the wheels off Bell, and get him closer to 30-35 touches be it rushing or receiving and sprinkle in some PA passing, that was the game. Having Laundry try to do a Dan Marino impersonation and throw the ball around the yard 29x was stupid.

It is still funny how the team went so run-heavy in the middle of the first half, and then went all "gun-slingy" in the second half while only trailing 9-3 to start the third quarter and 16-10 by the end of it.

But personally I think more could have been done to put Jones in better positions to succeed the entire game.

Doesn't mean we would have won, as Jones was decidedly average, and our defense was DECIDEDLY mediocre.

But the game plan, in my mind, had zero flow, and zero "build".

[Legacy User]

Le'veon Bell rushed he ball 17x and caught another 4 balls. 21 touches was far far too low a number with a Landry Jones at QB. If ever there was a game to run the wheels off Bell, and get him closer to 30-35 touches be it rushing or receiving and sprinkle in some PA passing, that was the game. Having Laundry try to do a Dan Marino impersonation and throw the ball around the yard 29x was stupid.

It is still funny how the team went so run-heavy in the middle of the first half, and then went all "gun-slingy" in the second half while only trailing 9-3 to start the third quarter and 16-10 by the end of it.

But personally I think more could have been done to put Jones in better positions to succeed the entire game.

Doesn't mean we would have won, as Jones was decidedly average, and our defense was DECIDEDLY mediocre.

But the game plan, in my mind, had zero flow, and zero "build".

I agree with you Jeems, they didn't put Landry in the best position to succeed at all, that's why imo making Bell more the focal point of the offense with the odd play action pass throw in was the best option. Zero flow zero build is on point as well.

[Kodiak]

I agree with you Jeems, they didn't put Landry in the best position to succeed at all, that's why imo making Bell more the focal point of the offense with the odd play action pass throw in was the best option. Zero flow zero build is on point as well.

On the bright side, they saved their trick plays for when Ben is back and making the defense his bitch

[Legacy User]

I agree with you Jeems, they didn't put Landry in the best position to succeed at all, that's why imo making Bell more the focal point of the offense with the odd play action pass throw in was the best option. Zero flow zero build is on point as well.

On the bright side, they saved their trick plays for when Ben is back and making the defense his bitch

They've definitely been saving Bell split out wide as a WR like we were getting used to seeing.

[Havoc]

It's not that he called a pass-heavy offense or a run-heavy offense...it's just that he went from one to the other with seemingly no plan on how it would fit together.

Haley's job should have been simple. Landry can run Haley's offense. So all Haley had to do was game plan for Landry to run his offense.

He didn't do that- instead we were subjected to a long run where Jones never threw a pass, a long run where Le'veon bell never touched the ball, subbing out our skill guys with Will Johnson and Darius Heyward-Bey, etc.

How in the world was any of that going to assist Landry Jones in finding a groove?

Just run the fucking offense. Then, if Jones was still scattershot, you would have at least known it was him.

But Haley did not help his third-string QB AT ALL.

PS Another thing I am curious about. What I know about football could fit on the head of a pin. But why is it that coaches (and not just our coaches, but most coaches) always try and protect a QB that's struggling by only letting him pass on obvious passing downs and distances? It is blindingly obvious to me that this just puts more pressure on a struggling QB, and yet it seems most coaches opt for this strategy- run on first, run on second, and only on third down let the QB pass...and then only if you have to.

It seems a better way would be to find safe, easy passing plays in NON-obvious passing situations to try and get the QB in some sort of a groove- because in today's NFL, you cannot win if your QB struggles, and trying to hide him simply does not work.

is there something I'm missing? is it just the extremely risk-averse nature of coaches that make them pursue this sub-optimal strategy?

You and I agree on the impact of passing for lighting up scoreboards.

I skimmed over the article that you posted in another thread. Is there anything in the article addressing bad to mediocre qb's and backup qb's?

The only thing I noticed in that article is the impact of passing when you have a difference making QB. It looked to me like they then compared teams with difference making qb's to teams with bad to average qb's. Like I said I did not read it, I only skimmed over some of it so maybe that is not correct.

I do wonder if the same "rules" apply when playing your 4th qb.

Also, plug and play backup qb's and plug and play backup point guards are probably more the exception than the rule. Even if the backup can run the "system" there are often going to be skillset differences the coach is going to try to milk or hide (we hope).

The first set of graphs only had data from playoff teams.

The correlation graphs later in the article were graphs of the correlation between rushing efficiency and wins and passing efficiency and wins. The data there included the rushing, passing, and wins stats of EVERY team from 2003 to 2012.

I could not read the graphs.

[Havoc]

I had to check my DVR...this is true. He would've had the 1st down...highly unlikely he scores. Stepped OOB around the 3 with a DB closing quickly.

Important thing is it's first down instead of fourth down.

The important thing in context of that discussion is that it was a 1st down instead of a TD.

[jeemie]

I could not read the graphs.

Absolutely no correlation between rushing efficiency and wins. Nice correlation between passing efficiency and wins.

[COR-TEN]

I could not read the graphs.

Absolutely no correlation between rushing efficiency and wins. Nice correlation between passing efficiency and wins.

What article is this from? link?

[jeemie]

https://thepowerrank.com/2014/01/10/whi ... -playoffs/

[Havoc]

https://thepowerrank.com/2014/01/10/which-nfl-teams-make-and-win-in-the-playoffs/

Thanks for posting those graphs, Jeemie.

[lifelongsteel]

Thanks for posting. Makes a ton of sense, since the avg pass play goes for about 1.8 x more yards than the average run play.

Any charts that show won/loss records of teams that ran it 6 straight times on one possession within one game?

I'm assuming they all lost

[steeledge]

I could not read the graphs.

Welcome to SteelerFURY, Mr. Tomlin...