Should Tomlin be on the Hot Seat?

[StillerInCT]

Wait, Mike Tomlin did this?

You sure?

Why didn't he turn last year's defense into something potentially special?

To be fair, Tomlin should get some credit for the defensive play. We sure as hell shat on him when it wasn't up to snuff.

Why was the defense so shitty last year and so much improved this year?

Yeah, Tomlin figured shit out.

Guys got experience and frankly Lebeau had tenure. Tomlin made it clear when he came in it was Lebeau's defense. I think the improvement in the defense has a lot to do with Lebeau leaving and these guys simplifying it. Don't forget we're pretty young on that side of the ball and he was they've been turning over a historic defense while simultaneously trying to give Ben weapons.

[jeemie]

You have to love the way facts are portrayed to fit someone's agenda - "Nearly five straight years without a playoff win."

Well try this......three straight years without a playoff appearance.

So far, Noll and Cowher have Tomlin clearly beat given this criterion.

If the Steelers miss the playoffs, that will be three out of the last four years, and will include that five straight years without a playoff win.

Is that really loads better than the three years in a row Cowher missed the playoffs, or the four straight years Noll missed them?

Tomlin's been to the playoffs five times in his 8+ seasons as head coach.

He's only won post-season games in two of them.

Is that really something to brag about?

We miss this year and the dude does deserve to start feeling the heat.

It should not take 3-5 years to get back to true Super Bowl contending status anymore. Not when you have the QB.

[K_C_]

So it was Lebeau's defense and Tomlin didn't intervene when it sucked.

Interesting.

What does Mike Tomlin DO exactly?

[StillerInCT]

So it was Lebeau's defense and Tomlin didn't intervene when it sucked.

Interesting.

What does Mike Tomlin DO exactly?

I get what you're saying but it's not that black & white. Lebeau is legendary and a Hall of Famer. I don't know many coaches in the league, excluding Belichick, that would overrule Lebeau. The guy built and coached some of the best defenses in history.

And I'm in the hot seat camp. Tomlin isn't completely useless.

[SteelPowerful]

If the Steelers miss the playoffs, that will be three out of the last four years, and will include that five straight years without a playoff win.

Is that really loads better than the three years in a row Cowher missed the playoffs, or the four straight years Noll missed them?

Like I said, everyone can frame facts to fit his/her agenda. Thanks for providing another example.

What matters is that no matter which way you frame it, this guy is not any worse than his predecessors. His predecessors were not fired, and he will not be fired either. Tomlin is basically Bill Cowher 2.0.

[SteelPowerful]

He's only won post-season games in two of them.

That is laughable. He has 2 Super Bowl appearances. How many coaches in the last two decades have two Super Bowl appearances?

Spin on my brother.

That's like saying the Steelers' drafts have sucked without comparing it to how the rest of the league has done.

And the Steelers have not experienced one losing season under him.


Your take is laughable and nothing but spin.

[StillMadAtSlobber]

Tomlin's greatest determining factor will be his talent evaluation. He's Bill Cowher redux. Cowher could restock the shelves like no other. I'm not sure Tomlin has that ability.

What are you referring to?

O-line: restocked w/injuries check
D-line: restocked w/injuries and 1 turd check
RBs: restocked w/injuries, jettisoned debris check
WR: restocked tops in league check
LB: restocked, developing average OLB, above average ILB check
DB: in triage, some developing, some clusterfucks, biggest weakness of team
QB: elite starter, maybe average backup check

[jeemie]

He's only won post-season games in two of them.

That is laughable. He has 2 Super Bowl appearances. How many coaches in the last two decades have two Super Bowl appearances?

Spin on my brother.

That's like saying the Steelers' drafts have sucked without comparing it to how the rest of the league has done.

And the Steelers have not experienced one losing season under him.


Your take is laughable and nothing but spin.

Standards are higher now.

Maybe that's unfair to Mike Tomlin, but it is what it is.

You simply cannot have a QB of Ben's caliber and go as long as we have without playoff success.

Remember, neither Cowher nor Noll had a QB of Ben's caliber for much of their down periods. You can say they are partly to blame for that, but again...it is what it is.

We do not taste playoff success this season and Tomlin's seat deserves to be hot.

That's not spin...that is the way it is.

[K_C_]

He's only won post-season games in two of them.

That is laughable. He has 2 Super Bowl appearances. How many coaches in the last two decades have two Super Bowl appearances?

Spin on my brother.

That's like saying the Steelers' drafts have sucked without comparing it to how the rest of the league has done.

And the Steelers have not experienced one losing season under him.


Your take is laughable and nothing but spin.

How ya gonna spin it when we miss the playoffs this year?

[StillMadAtSlobber]

Perhaps if fucking Tomlin had built a decent O-Line for Ben to be behind in XLV, they would have beaten Green Bay. If he had done that maybe Mendy doesn't fumble that ball either. Yes, had Tomlin built that line after the likes of Faneca retired, after Hartings retired, and not giving a fucking huge contract to that oxygen thief Willie Colon, then yes, we all might be posting here that Tomlin's up there with Lombardi and the Emperor. Instead, the fucker is continuously schooled by Belichick, Harbaugh and just recently Marvin fucking Lewis.

The Rooneys were giving out some loyalty/reward contracts after XL. Willie Colon was one of those.

[StillMadAtSlobber]

Wait, Mike Tomlin did this?

You sure?

Why didn't he turn last year's defense into something potentially special?

To be fair, Tomlin should get some credit for the defensive play. We sure as hell shat on him when it wasn't up to snuff.

Why was the defense so shitty last year and so much improved this year?

Yeah, Tomlin figured shit out.

Because Lebeau is gone. Its obvious to anyone who isnt in a permanent state of Tomlin inspired rage.

[K_C_]

Because Lebeau is gone. Its obvious to anyone who isnt in a permanent state of Tomlin inspired rage.

Oh, so Tomlin just allowed the defense to be shitty because Lebeau was the coordinator.

I see.

Sweet.

That's not utterly moronic. Noooooo. It isn't.

[jeemie]

Because Lebeau is gone. Its obvious to anyone who isnt in a permanent state of Tomlin inspired rage.

Oh, so Tomlin just allowed the defense to be shitty because Lebeau was the coordinator.

I see.

Sweet.

That's not utterly moronic. Noooooo. It isn't.

No more moronic than assuming he has absolutely no influence on the defense now.

And to be honest, we lost more games due to an inconsistent offense than a shitty defense even last year.

[K_C_]

Because Lebeau is gone. Its obvious to anyone who isnt in a permanent state of Tomlin inspired rage.

Oh, so Tomlin just allowed the defense to be shitty because Lebeau was the coordinator.

I see.

Sweet.

That's not utterly moronic. Noooooo. It isn't.

No more moronic than assuming he has absolutely no influence on the defense now.

And to be honest, we lost more games due to an inconsistent offense than a shitty defense even last year.

So he has an immense amount of influence on the defense now, but didn't last year. He simply allowed it to be shitty.

Okay.



...and while last year's offense was inconsistent, last year's defense was embarrassing.

Big difference.

[StillMadAtSlobber]

Because Lebeau is gone. Its obvious to anyone who isnt in a permanent state of Tomlin inspired rage.

Oh, so Tomlin just allowed the defense to be shitty because Lebeau was the coordinator.

I see.

Sweet.

That's not utterly moronic. Noooooo. It isn't.

No, your post is moronic. Actually the majority of your latest replies have been.
Your series of posts, is displaying an utter ignorance of the reality of this situation.
You are displaying levels of ignorance that would give Tomlin a challenge to match.

Its obvious by everything previously noted, that Tomlin didnt get total control over the franchise when he started. He was told to work with the coaches that we had and LeBeau had control over the D. You know this. Your remarks about this to the contrary clearly show your head is lodged somewhere between your lower and willie colon. Your obstinancy in having it both ways and spouting the same thing is pretty transparent.

With Lebeau finally forced out, Butler and Tomlin can do what they want with the D. How much is who's responsibility is unknown. Its pretty obvious that Tomlin's handprints have been over some of our LB draft picks, Tomlin has secondary coaching experience and Butler line.

[K_C_]

Because Lebeau is gone. Its obvious to anyone who isnt in a permanent state of Tomlin inspired rage.

Oh, so Tomlin just allowed the defense to be shitty because Lebeau was the coordinator.

I see.

Sweet.

That's not utterly moronic. Noooooo. It isn't.

No, your post is moronic. Actually the majority of your latest replies have been.
Your series of posts, is displaying an utter ignorance of the reality of this situation.
You are displaying levels of ignorance that would give Tomlin a challenge to match.

Its obvious by everything previously noted, that Tomlin didnt get total control over the franchise when he started. He was told to work with the coaches that we had and LeBeau had control over the D. You know this. Your remarks about this, clearly show your head is lodged somewhere between your lower and willie colon however. Your obstinancy in having it both ways and spouting the same thing is pretty transparent.

With Lebeau finally forced out, Butler and Tomlin can do what they want with the D. How much is who's responsibility is unknown. Its pretty obvious that Tomlin's handprints have been over some of our LB draft picks, Tomlin has secondary coaching experience and Butler line.

Wait so into what, his 8th fucking year, your dumbfuck ass is telling me Tomlin didn't have the power to take control of a horrific defense because Dick Lebeau was untouchable?



Then a few months later, Lebeau is forced out.

Forced out.

Lebeau.

But Tomlin, I'm being told.....by your retard-level ass, didn't have the power to take control of his defense.

Got it.

[SteelPowerful]

Standards are higher now.

Maybe that's unfair to Mike Tomlin, but it is what it is.

You simply cannot have a QB of Ben's caliber and go as long as we have without playoff success.

Remember, neither Cowher nor Noll had a QB of Ben's caliber for much of their down periods. You can say they are partly to blame for that, but again...it is what it is.

We do not taste playoff success this season and Tomlin's seat deserves to be hot.

That's not spin...that is the way it is.

Standards are higher? You are falling prey to media bullshit. By these standards, Coughlin would never have gotten his second Super Bowl with the Giants. And yes, he is one of the few coaches with two Super Bowl appearances in the last 20 years. And you can take that back to 40 or even 50 years for that matter. There are not that many coaches with two Super Bowl appearances when compared to the entire league.

In addition, the Steelers are not the rest of the league. Not one team comes close to the fewest number of coaches in the last three decades. Talking about the star QB and no other parts of this team is similar to what we call anchoring in psychology. It does not take into consideration the entire context or situation. The Steeler defense has been on the decline the last several years. The Steeler defense is the reason they were "Tebowed" in 2011. The Steelers were giving up leads and games to QBs that could not win starting jobs....Glennon and Gradkowski included. And when Tomlin (or whoever you want to give credit to) finally gets rid of the problem you want to talk about his seat getting warm?

That media piece is trash and nothing more than garbage to give people something to talk about. It worked.

[pickarooney]

So we have a couple of positions here among the Tomlin detractors. 1) If we don't win a playoff game this year (and this holds true if, say, Ben breaks his neck during the game, because, you know, it's a full-proof method for determining Tomlin's coaching value); and 2) this team would be better if Tomlin was fired immediately.

So, to those who take the second position: Let's say you are granted the power to fire Tomlin right now--or, if you prefer, at the end of this season--and promote Munchak, do you really pull the trigger? Do you honestly think that change increases the teams chances of another trophy in Ben's waning years? Do you think Ben wants this change? Or are we better off sticking with a warty Tomlin and hoping we see super-Ben in the playoffs and not the other one before he retires (God knows Ben has let Tomlin down as much as the other way around). I agree that the Tomlin years following Ben's retirement won't likely be pretty. Good coach + no franchise qb isn't good enough in this league. Just ask Chuck Noll, or the almighty Cheat himself. And franchise qbs are (by definition I believe?) hard to come by. But I'm sure some of you will feel like geniuses when Tomlin goes 8-8 with Landry Jones.

And, KC, you're a Blake supporter, right? Would you say that Tomlin has made a good choice in starting him over Allen? That his ability to make game-changing plays makes him the best option we have right now? Or did Tomlin just roll the dice on that? I think that if you honestly can't acknowledge a single thing Tomlin does well or has ever done well then it's much more about your despising the guy than his value as a coach.

[K_C_]

And, KC, you're a Blake supporter, right? Would you say that Tomlin has made a good choice in starting him over Allen? That his ability to make game-changing plays makes him the best option we have right now? Or did Tomlin just roll the dice on that? I think that if you honestly can't acknowledge a single thing Tomlin does well or has ever done well then it's much more about your despising the guy than his value as a coach.

Um.....

Any retard can see that Blake is a better football player (and corner) than Cortez Allen.

Literally anybody.

[SteelPowerful]

By the way...this team went 2-2 without their star QB. How about the record of that other team that lost their star QB? What is it 0-5?

And you want to talk about Tomlin's seat getting warm?

Tomlin drives me nuts with some of his decision making, but he does not deserve to be fired or have his job threatened at this point. The thought of it is ludicrous.

[FortyThree]

Colin Dunlap is an idiot and this is stupid.

Tomlin's never had a losing season, despite 0-4 starts, despite injuries, despite Ben being suspended, etc.

Not only that but he clearly has never lost the locker room throughout all of this. The number of NFL head coaches that are undoubtedly, and demonstratively better than Tomlin can be counted on one hand.

If Ben doesn't get hurt the Steelers are likely sitting at 6-2, maybe 7-1 right now. Hell they could be 5-3 or 6-2 even with Ben's injuries if Scobee makes a field goal or AB holds on to a touchdown pass, if Ben doesn't throw 3 INTs.

Sure they haven't won a playoff game in like 5 years and Tomlin definitely deserves some blame for that, but until it becomes obvious that the players don't want to play for him anymore or the franchise begins an obvious downward spiral, making a change would be stupid. Especially when there's no guarantee they hire someone better than what they have.

Does anyone really want head coach Todd Haley?

[Havoc]

Standards are higher now.

Maybe that's unfair to Mike Tomlin, but it is what it is.

You simply cannot have a QB of Ben's caliber and go as long as we have without playoff success.

Remember, neither Cowher nor Noll had a QB of Ben's caliber for much of their down periods. You can say they are partly to blame for that, but again...it is what it is.

We do not taste playoff success this season and Tomlin's seat deserves to be hot.

That's not spin...that is the way it is.

Standards are higher? You are falling prey to media bullshit. By these standards, Coughlin would never have gotten his second Super Bowl with the Giants. And yes, he is one of the few coaches with two Super Bowl appearances in the last 20 years. And you can take that back to 40 or even 50 years for that matter. There are not that many coaches with two Super Bowl appearances when compared to the entire league.

In addition, the Steelers are not the rest of the league. Not one team comes close to the fewest number of coaches in the last three decades. Talking about the star QB and no other parts of this team is similar to what we call anchoring in psychology. It does not take into consideration the entire context or situation. The Steeler defense has been on the decline the last several years. The Steeler defense is the reason they were "Tebowed" in 2011. The Steelers were giving up leads and games to QBs that could not win starting jobs....Glennon and Gradkowski included. And when Tomlin (or whoever you want to give credit to) finally gets rid of the problem you want to talk about his seat getting warm?

That media piece is trash and nothing more than garbage to give people something to talk about. It worked.

Coughlin has never gone 5 consecutive years without a playoff win as HC of the Giants.

[Orangesteel]

Good is the enemy of great. Ben won't be here forever.

These will be remembered as "The Wasted Years".

[FortyThree]

Tomlin is a mental midget during games who spews poetic cliches at press conferences.

I can't wait for his days as HC are over. He is stubborn, idiotic with clock mgmt with no improvement amd is routinely out coached in games.

I think his win percentage makes it awfully hard to support that he is "routinely out coached." The clock management is extremely bothersome.

Sometimes talent can carry a coach.

Barry Switzer if you will.

I will never be convinced that Tomlin is a good head coach.

That's dumb.

"Despite all evidence to the contrary, I will never be convinced that the Earth is round."

"Even though I am not floating in the air, you can't tell me that gravity exists."

"Sure Wayne Gretzky is the most prolific goal scorer of all-time, but you'll never change my mind...he wasn't the best player of all-time."

[SteelPowerful]

Coughlin has never gone 5 consecutive years without a playoff win as HC of the Giants.

That's not the point. Between 2007 and 2011 the media and fans were calling for his job. That's the point.

And here we have the media basically saying that Tomlin's job should be threatened. Get it now?

And I don't fall prey to considering one's arbitrary idiotic standards.

"Five years without a playoff win?"

How about a losing season?
What about three straight years without a playoff appearance?

[FortyThree]

Should Chuck Noll have been on the hot seat after, let's see ... a full decade of mediocrity? Imagine the board names had this site existed...

Noll never went 5 years in a row without a playoff win.

Neither did Cowher.

If we fail to get a playoff win this year, it will be 5 years in a row.

Tomlin's never had a losing season.

Cowher did. So did Noll.

If we count everything after the Steelers first made the playoffs under Noll, he coached the Steelers to four losing seasons. Noll also had a 4 year stretch where not only did the Steelers not win a playoff game, they didn't even make the tournament.

Cowher coached the Steelers to three, including a three-year stretch of no playoffs.

Comparing Cowher and Tomlin at this same point in their careers is interesting too because Cowher is at the end of a three year spiral of no playoffs and two losing seasons. Tomlin...isn't.

So yeah, if you want to compare them you can find ways in which Tomlin is worse. You can also find ways in which he's better.

[K_C_]

I love seeing all this Tomlin support.

I love it!

Boy is that shit gonna evaporate as time goes on and his teams continue to flame out.

...and that's WITH Roethlisberger under center!

[Legacy User]

Some people are just in denial.

[SteelPowerful]

You call this Tomlin support? My responses are more about addressing the idiotic criticism of the man. He damn sure has flaws, but he should not be fired for them. And people want Munchak as a coach? Are you serious? I bet some of the people on this board would even consider bringing Whisenhunt aboard.

[FortyThree]

I love seeing all this Tomlin support.

I love it!

Boy is that shit gonna evaporate as time goes on and his teams continue to flame out.

...and that's WITH Roethlisberger under center!

Some of us actually like and support the Steelers even if we have irrational hatreds for players/coaches.