wh played thier last steeler game?

[Legacy User]

Fielding punts isn't as easy as just catching it. And fielding them in practice and fielding them in live action are two different animals. I don't know if any of you guys were ever a punt returner, but concentrating and looking up at a football, while 11 guys are running towards you full speed, with the intent of knocking you in to next week, takes a special kind of attitude. It takes a lot of practice and a shit load of nerve.
That said...Wheaton was an abortion.

cept that weaton has returned kicks too; not hugely different then punts...its not like hes a full time stock broker and plays ymca football mens league. and if it so hard why wasn't there other guys ready?

[Jobu]

Fielding punts isn't as easy as just catching it. And fielding them in practice and fielding them in live action are two different animals. I don't know if any of you guys were ever a punt returner, but concentrating and looking up at a football, while 11 guys are running towards you full speed, with the intent of knocking you in to next week, takes a special kind of attitude. It takes a lot of practice and a shit load of nerve.
That said...Wheaton was an abortion.

cept that weaton has returned kicks too; not hugely different then punts...its not like hes a full time stock broker and plays ymca football mens league. and if it so hard why wasn't there other guys ready?

Returning kicks is nothing like returning punts.
As for having other guys ready... we'd have to ask Mike Tomlin. But I'm sure they were confident thar Wheaton was more than capable...they were wrong.

[Jobu]

I agree especially with the game he had Sunday.
you know he wants the steelers sack record.

Harrison will be back, if he wants to be back. I don't think he gives two shakes about any sack record.

[Donnie Brasco]

But I'm sure they were confident thar Wheaton was more than capable...they were wrong.

Just like they were confident with Archer and then Jones.

But people love them some Mikey T! Think Belicheck puts up w/ the ST's fiasco all season long?

[steelmann58]

I happen to agree that he might not want the sack record but his play was not slowing down so I think if he wants to come back don't see the steelers saying NO like some media guys are saying.

[Jobu]

I happen to agree that he might not want the sack record but his play was not slowing down so I think if he wants to come back don't see the steelers saying NO like some media guys are saying.

He's certainly not the player he was 5/6years ago, but he still brings plenty of positives to the team. He was probably the Steelers best defender on the field Sunday, not named Tuit. If he decides to play another year, the Steelers should, and likely will welcome him back with open arms. The media guys are dolts!

[steelmann58]

I agree about some in the Media being Dolts and yes he not a defensive MVP but better than some of our OLB

[COR-TEN]

I'd keep Toussaint.

Why I don't understand is why they didn't play toddman that much. Or did they? Anybody know his snap count?

I also don't think Wheaton is gone. The pass he missed should never have been thrown, so I can't blame him. Regardless if it went through his hands.

I can however, blame him for his special teams fuck ups.

I hope Miller is gone. Adams. Vick. Blake. Legursky.

I hope they keep Boykin. Something tells me there are personality conflicts with that guy?

WHAT THE FUCK?

The guy drops a sure TD pass but you don't blame him because the throw shouldn't have been made?

Not so fast. That throw in the end zone was into double coverage, and the safety, I think, ran into him right when the ball arrived. Not an easy catch. An ill advised thrown when a first down was within reach.

[jeemie]

WHAT THE FUCK?

The guy drops a sure TD pass but you don't blame him because the throw shouldn't have been made?

Not so fast. That throw in the end zone was into double coverage, and the safety, I think, ran into him right when the ball arrived. Not an easy catch. An ill advised thrown when a first down was within reach.

Many comments here...the perspective of being two days removed helps.

1) It was not a "sure TD pass". It was underthrown because Ben threw off his back foot over some oncoming pressure. Wheaton had a step- a "sure TD pass" leads him a little so he can waltz into the EZ in stride.
2) Talib grabbed Wheaton's face mask and pulled his head a little. Clear DPI that wasn't called. I missed it watching it live- but the officials were in better position than I was. They shouldn't have. They called Gay for breathing on a receiver later- they should have called this.
3) Ben and/or the OC has to share culpability because the goal should have been made clear that the object of the play was to pick up the first down. Therefore, Wheaton's route should not have been high up on the list of progressions unless the defender covering him fell down and Wheaton was streaking COMPLETELY free.
4) Miller was free from jump, and even if Ben couldn't see him right away, the presence of two other defenders in the area of Wheaton should have let him know this. Landry Jones hit Miller on a very similar play, with even more pressure in his face, earlier this season. if Landry Jones can do it, Ben can too.

This is where the practice on third and short of "taking the shot with one on one coverage every time" came back to bite the Steelers in the ass. I'm thinking it was ingrained into Ben's instincts, and so he took that shot at a most inopportune time.

The Steelers really really really need to seriously re-think this philosophy going forward. Continually going to the well on a low percentage play is not an optimal strategy for longer-term success.

[SteelPowerful]

bam morris wrote:


Jobus Rum wrote:

Fielding punts isn't as easy as just catching it. And fielding them in practice and fielding them in live action are two different animals. I don't know if any of you guys were ever a punt returner, but concentrating and looking up at a football, while 11 guys are running towards you full speed, with the intent of knocking you in to next week, takes a special kind of attitude. It takes a lot of practice and a shit load of nerve.
That said...Wheaton was an abortion.

cept that weaton has returned kicks too; not hugely different then punts...its not like hes a full time stock broker and plays ymca football mens league. and if it so hard why wasn't there other guys ready?
Returning kicks is nothing like returning punts.
As for having other guys ready... we'd have to ask Mike Tomlin. But I'm sure they were confident thar Wheaton was more than capable...they were wrong.

Returning punts is a lot harder. The ball is coming at you from a different angle and has a different spin. Kick returns are a lot easier. It is much easier to muff a punt than a kickoff.

[K_C_]

I'd keep Toussaint.

Why I don't understand is why they didn't play toddman that much. Or did they? Anybody know his snap count?

I also don't think Wheaton is gone. The pass he missed should never have been thrown, so I can't blame him. Regardless if it went through his hands.

I can however, blame him for his special teams fuck ups.

I hope Miller is gone. Adams. Vick. Blake. Legursky.

I hope they keep Boykin. Something tells me there are personality conflicts with that guy?

WHAT THE FUCK?

The guy drops a sure TD pass but you don't blame him because the throw shouldn't have been made?

Not so fast. That throw in the end zone was into double coverage, and the safety, I think, ran into him right when the ball arrived. Not an easy catch. An ill advised thrown when a first down was within reach.

The ball hit Wheaton SQUARELY in the hands.

Good WR's make that catch. AB makes that catch. That's why I was concerned when Cotch signed elsewhere HE makes that catch with his eyes closed.

Bryant, Wheaton, DHB? They make that catch once in awhile. Sometimes. Not very often if it's contested.

That's a big problem with this receiving corps and why I hope Coates is ready to make tough, contested grabs.

[COR-TEN]

The ball hit Wheaton SQUARELY in the hands.

Michael Vick's pass to AB in the end zone during the Rats game hit him SQUARELY in the hands. The pass to MB in the endzone during the Broncos game hit him SQUARELY in the hands. Miller also had a ball bounce off his hands in the cincy game.

Having said that, I'd like a gif or a replay. Can't find one.

[jeemie]

The ball hit Wheaton SQUARELY in the hands.

Good WR's make that catch. AB makes that catch. That's why I was concerned when Cotch signed elsewhere HE makes that catch with his eyes closed.

Bryant, Wheaton, DHB? They make that catch once in awhile. Sometimes. Not very often if it's contested.

That's a big problem with this receiving corps and why I hope Coates is ready to make tough, contested grabs.

How many times does AB or Cotch make that catch when their face mask is getting tugged? 100% of the time? I think not.

When those things happen, anything can happen.

Ben did not throw a perfect pass. He underthrew the pass so that it could be contested. Wasn't necessarily his fault he had to throw it off his back foot, but it is what it is.

When a pass is contested, even the greats will sometimes drop it.

[jeemie]

The ball hit Wheaton SQUARELY in the hands.

Michael Vick's pass to AB in the end zone during the Rats game hit him SQUARELY in the hands. The pass to MB in the endzone during the Broncos game hit him SQUARELY in the hands. Miller also had a ball bounce off his hands in the cincy game.

Having said that, I'd like a gif or a replay. Can't find one.

I'll make one tonight- am looking at the All 22 in detail then.

[jeemie]

The ball hit Wheaton SQUARELY in the hands.

Michael Vick's pass to AB in the end zone during the Rats game hit him SQUARELY in the hands. The pass to MB in the endzone during the Broncos game hit him SQUARELY in the hands. Miller also had a ball bounce off his hands in the cincy game.

Having said that, I'd like a gif or a replay. Can't find one.

Of all those passes, Vick's pass to AB was the best.

Thrown while perfectly leading AB so it couldn't be contested, and ONLY AB could catch it.

Was an easier catch than the one Wheaton had to make.

[K_C_]

The ball hit Wheaton SQUARELY in the hands.

Michael Vick's pass to AB in the end zone during the Rats game hit him SQUARELY in the hands. The pass to MB in the endzone during the Broncos game hit him SQUARELY in the hands. Miller also had a ball bounce off his hands in the cincy game.

Having said that, I'd like a gif or a replay. Can't find one.

You named one AB dropped.

You'll have trouble naming many more.

Wheaton drops I would guess, an average of one pass per game. Maybe more, not sure.

Miller's had several drops this year. He's not reliable at all anymore. Obviously neither is Bryant or DHB.

Antonio Brown is beyond reliable. Comparing Wheaton to AB in terms or reliability is FUCKING SILLY.

[K_C_]

The ball hit Wheaton SQUARELY in the hands.

Good WR's make that catch. AB makes that catch. That's why I was concerned when Cotch signed elsewhere HE makes that catch with his eyes closed.

Bryant, Wheaton, DHB? They make that catch once in awhile. Sometimes. Not very often if it's contested.

That's a big problem with this receiving corps and why I hope Coates is ready to make tough, contested grabs.

How many times does AB or Cotch make that catch when their face mask is getting tugged? 100% of the time? I think not.

When those things happen, anything can happen.

Ben did not throw a perfect pass. He underthrew the pass so that it could be contested. Wasn't necessarily his fault he had to throw it off his back foot, but it is what it is.

When a pass is contested, even the greats will sometimes drop it.

Wheaton's not one of the greats by any stretch of the imagination and he's seriously unreliable when the ball is in the air.

That's the thing. When AB dropped that pass from Vick, you were shocked. I mean, jaw on the floor shocked.

When Wheaton dropped the pass from Ben, you were like; "Oh, that's par for the course for Markus."

That's the difference. As for Cotch, like AB his hands are among the best in the NFL. He makes that catch. Plain and simple.

[jeemie]

The ball hit Wheaton SQUARELY in the hands.

Good WR's make that catch. AB makes that catch. That's why I was concerned when Cotch signed elsewhere HE makes that catch with his eyes closed.

Bryant, Wheaton, DHB? They make that catch once in awhile. Sometimes. Not very often if it's contested.

That's a big problem with this receiving corps and why I hope Coates is ready to make tough, contested grabs.

How many times does AB or Cotch make that catch when their face mask is getting tugged? 100% of the time? I think not.

When those things happen, anything can happen.

Ben did not throw a perfect pass. He underthrew the pass so that it could be contested. Wasn't necessarily his fault he had to throw it off his back foot, but it is what it is.

When a pass is contested, even the greats will sometimes drop it.

Wheaton's not one of the greats by any stretch of the imagination and he's seriously unreliable when the ball is in the air.

That's the thing. When AB dropped that pass from Vick, you were shocked. I mean, jaw on the floor shocked.

When Wheaton dropped the pass from Ben, you were like; "Oh, that's par for the course for Markus."

That's the difference. As for Cotch, like AB his hands are among the best in the NFL. He makes that catch. Plain and simple.

Thank you for telling me what I was thinking at the time.

I wouldn't have known it but for you.

Markus Wheaton dropped two passes all year, BTW.

[K_C_]

Thank you for telling me what I was thinking at the time.

I wouldn't have known it but for you.

No problem. Nobody (including you) was surprised Wheaton dropped that ball.

...and you know it.

Always happy to help.

[jeemie]

Thank you for telling me what I was thinking at the time.

I wouldn't have known it but for you.

No problem. Nobody (including you) was surprised Wheaton dropped that ball.

...and you know it.

Always happy to help.

As I added once I looked it up- Markus Wheaton dropped two passes all year long.

You see how you do when you're getting your face-mask pulled on a contested pass.

PS Antonio Brown also had two dropped passes in 2015.

[Jobu]

bam morris wrote:


Jobus Rum wrote:

Fielding punts isn't as easy as just catching it. And fielding them in practice and fielding them in live action are two different animals. I don't know if any of you guys were ever a punt returner, but concentrating and looking up at a football, while 11 guys are running towards you full speed, with the intent of knocking you in to next week, takes a special kind of attitude. It takes a lot of practice and a shit load of nerve.
That said...Wheaton was an abortion.

cept that weaton has returned kicks too; not hugely different then punts...its not like hes a full time stock broker and plays ymca football mens league. and if it so hard why wasn't there other guys ready?
Returning kicks is nothing like returning punts.
As for having other guys ready... we'd have to ask Mike Tomlin. But I'm sure they were confident thar Wheaton was more than capable...they were wrong.

Returning punts is a lot harder. The ball is coming at you from a different angle and has a different spin. Kick returns are a lot easier. It is much easier to muff a punt than a kickoff.

Right. Catching a punt, the coverage team is usually right on top of the returner, who is at the mercy of his blockers. Returning kicks, the returner is usually 15-18 yards into the return before encountering the coverage. He has time to read the field.
The only similarity is they are both ST returns. Other than that...night and day.

[zeke5123]

Thank you for telling me what I was thinking at the time.

I wouldn't have known it but for you.

No problem. Nobody (including you) was surprised Wheaton dropped that ball.

...and you know it.

Always happy to help.

As I added once I looked it up- Markus Wheaton dropped two passes all year long.

You see how you do when you're getting your face-mask pulled on a contested pass.

PS Antonio Brown also had two dropped passes in 2015.

So, Brown has much better hands than Wheaton, as Brown had more attempts?

[COR-TEN]

The point I was trying to make is that on the Vick throw to AB, the defenders arm got in between AB's and contested the catch. It wasn't his fault. Hard catch to make. Same thing happened with Wheaton yet he gets the shit. Same thing happened with MB circus catch. Most missed that the defender was pulling at MB's arm.

I'm taking Jeemie's word for it that the defender pulled his face mask. In real time, I saw the ball and defender get there at the same time, albeit a bit under thrown, into double coverage. Not.An.Easy.Catch. Not.A.Smart.Throw.

BR likes to throw into double coverage and expect his all pro WR's to make the catch. I remember one long throw to AB into double coverage in one of the last few games. One defender bumped the other out of the way, preventing what would surely have been an interception. He got lucky, and bases his throws on the skill of his receiver. Great. Situationally, obviously. Not in this case.

I'm not arguing that Wheaton didn't shrink in the biggest game of his life. I just cannot blame him for not making a spectacular catch amidst double coverage with an ill advised, under thrown ball.

[jeemie]

So, Brown has much better hands than Wheaton, as Brown had more attempts?

1% drop rate v 2% drop rate is a statistically insignificant difference.

[zeke5123]

Can we really say double coverage? I seem to recall only one defender making a play on the ball.

[jeemie]

The point I was trying to make is that on the Vick throw to AB, the defenders arm got in between AB's and contested the catch.

Um...not really.

His arm glanced off Brown's shoulder...never hooked under his arm...never touched the ball.

http://www.nfl.com/gamecenter/201510010 ... playbyplay

[K_C_]

I'm not arguing that Wheaton didn't shrink in the biggest game of his life. I just cannot blame him for not making a spectacular catch amidst double coverage with an ill advised, under thrown ball.

Nothing spectacular about it, though.

Hit him in the hands, or I should say, the ball went right thru his hands.

[jeemie]

I'm not arguing that Wheaton didn't shrink in the biggest game of his life. I just cannot blame him for not making a spectacular catch amidst double coverage with an ill advised, under thrown ball.

Nothing spectacular about it, though.

Hit him in the hands, or I should say, the ball went right thru his hands.

With a defender in front of him interfering and grabbing his face mask.

Not an easy catch at all.

[COR-TEN]

The point I was trying to make is that on the Vick throw to AB, the defenders arm got in between AB's and contested the catch.

Um...not really.

His arm glanced off Brown's shoulder...never hooked under his arm...never touched the ball.

http://www.nfl.com/gamecenter/201510010 ... playbyplay

Um,,,yes, really. His arm collided with AB's shoulder and altered his arms. At the last second. Should have made the catch but not easy either.

You're link is the cockrell int.

[jeemie]

Ooops- must have copied and pasted the link after it switched to a new video.

http://www.nfl.com/gamecenter/201510010 ... playbyplay

Hit his shoulder pad...if the arm moved at all, I didn't see it.