Stanley Cup Championship #5....Postscript

This is where old posts that do not fit into any of the new forum categories are dumped.
Orangesteel
Posts: 13435
Joined: Sun Sep 22, 2019 3:23 pm

Re: Stanley Cup Championship #5....Postscript

Post by Orangesteel » Mon Jun 12, 2017 8:33 pm

Dan Smith--BYU wrote:Watched Sullivan presser, that dude is the Belichick of hockey without the surliness.

By the way, an off the wall observation, his voice sounds exactly like Super Dave Osborne.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vCimuL6tGTM


You mean Marty Funkhauser?


“Thoughts are a waste of time for me.” - Michael Pettaway Tomlin

Legacy User
Posts: 288947
Joined: Mon Dec 02, 2019 1:19 am

Post by Legacy User » Mon Jun 12, 2017 8:45 pm

Yep, though his voice changed a little by the time he was on Curb.

Legacy User
Posts: 288947
Joined: Mon Dec 02, 2019 1:19 am

Post by Legacy User » Mon Jun 12, 2017 9:52 pm

SteelPro wrote:

How does him waiving his No Movement Clause allow him to choose his destination? That actually takes away all his leverage to choose where he gets to play.


It's a limited waiver for expansion draft only

User avatar
SteelPro
Posts: 1308
Joined: Tue Sep 24, 2019 7:38 pm

Post by SteelPro » Mon Jun 12, 2017 10:10 pm

steel wrote:
SteelPro wrote:

How does him waiving his No Movement Clause allow him to choose his destination? That actually takes away all his leverage to choose where he gets to play.


It's a limited waiver for expansion draft only


Yeah, he could toil with an expansion club. If I were player I'd rather be a unrestricted free agent. That doesn't seem like a hard choice to me. I think if the Pens can't get a deal done quickly and they feel even the slightest threat of Fleury being selected by Vegas they'll buy him out.
People who quote themselves look like dogs who lick their balls

- Deebo referring to SteelerDayTrader

Legacy User
Posts: 288947
Joined: Mon Dec 02, 2019 1:19 am

Post by Legacy User » Mon Jun 12, 2017 10:47 pm

Great work by the Pens, I was so overjoyed. A few things

I like the fact that this team figured other teams out. It seemed like a new puzzle every round and it took them a couple games to figure it out but when they did- they closed them down. No contested goals in almost 2.5 games

I like hockey brotherhood.It feels like Steelers brotherhood. Guys picking each other up and understanding when the pass the puck and cup (like a torch) to the young guys. You could see them feeding and running plays for Jake just to get him that record.

Speaking of young guys- I can see the team maturing into the guys from last year and this year. Those who came up contributed.

I think my whipping boy for the entire playoffs was Maata- I swear that guy kept the puck in the defensive zone with horrible clearances to the other team- terrible. He even created a few scoring chances with some horrible puck handling. That said when he got his chances in the offensive zone he afforded himself pretty well.

Try not to be too hard on the Nashville fans. They are new to this and they are using the only thing they know- college football-- as the basis of their fandom. Good people they just need a bit of training on hockey class and decorum.

Lastly, since when are we using Antonio Brown as the poster boy for player selfishness? Dude is the best WR in the league and was doing it on a contract that was criminal. He took a minor raise and showed up to camp in spite of it all no headaches, no drama. Is this about the car at Training camp and the end zone dances? If it is, its time to get your priorities straight, man. Geno is a great player who just wants to win- no matter the individual trophies. I think the same can be said for players who wear the black and gold on grass or ice- if they didn't feel like that, they'd be gone. He's lMalkin is like a frigging M-1 out there one arming the puck and fighting off defenders.

We have the best 2 lines in hockey and the best 3 skill guys in football- let that sink in a moment.

Great win and should serve as an inspiration for the Steelers.

zeke5123
Posts: 4888
Joined: Mon Sep 23, 2019 7:43 pm

Post by zeke5123 » Mon Jun 12, 2017 10:55 pm

Steel pro -- you can say: trade me to X team on my NMC and only X team. He waives when the trade is done.

Legacy User
Posts: 288947
Joined: Mon Dec 02, 2019 1:19 am

Post by Legacy User » Mon Jun 12, 2017 11:23 pm

Orangesteel wrote:Can't stop watching the replay of Hagelin's EN.

He was shot out of a cannon. Don't believe he's ever skated harder for a loose puck in his life. The puck was on edge from the blue line in and he did the smart thing by guiding it in the net.

CHAMPIONS!

Hagelin is so fast it's almost silly. NHL level skaters aren't supposed to be beaten by as much as he beats them by.

Lucking into having Carl Hagelin in a foot race for the Cup is a laughably fortuitous situation to end up in.

User avatar
SteelPro
Posts: 1308
Joined: Tue Sep 24, 2019 7:38 pm

Post by SteelPro » Mon Jun 12, 2017 11:54 pm

Zeke5123 wrote:Steel pro -- you can say: trade me to X team on my NMC and only X team. He waives when the trade is done.


Even if we are going with the assumption that Fleury can basically approve any trade to any where, how many teams do you think actually want to add players that they have to worry about protecting prior to the expansion draft? I'm not even sure trades are permitted. I though there was a freeze. And again, waiving this NMC allows him to be taken by Vegas who could choose just to keep him. I don't think Fleury wants that and I doubt the Pens would like to see that happen to him. Bottom line is this all being done with Fleury's blessing. He could have just chosen not to waive the NMC for Vegas and they would have been forced to buy him out. Once again Fleury did the team a solid.
People who quote themselves look like dogs who lick their balls

- Deebo referring to SteelerDayTrader

Legacy User
Posts: 288947
Joined: Mon Dec 02, 2019 1:19 am

Post by Legacy User » Tue Jun 13, 2017 12:10 am

prophet wrote:
Orangesteel wrote:Can't stop watching the replay of Hagelin's EN.

He was shot out of a cannon. Don't believe he's ever skated harder for a loose puck in his life. The puck was on edge from the blue line in and he did the smart thing by guiding it in the net.

CHAMPIONS!

Hagelin is so fast it's almost silly. NHL level skaters aren't supposed to be beaten by as much as he beats them by.

Lucking into having Carl Hagelin in a foot race for the Cup is a laughably fortuitous situation to end up in.

Not to piss in anyone's Wheaties, but Subban had to stop and change directions whereas Hagelin was already moving. Hainsey would have smoked Subban given those same circumstances.

Legacy User
Posts: 288947
Joined: Mon Dec 02, 2019 1:19 am

Post by Legacy User » Tue Jun 13, 2017 12:52 am

I thought last year Letang was the real playoff MVP.

Amazing they could win it all again without him.

swissvale72
Posts: 2973
Joined: Wed Sep 25, 2019 1:43 am

Post by swissvale72 » Tue Jun 13, 2017 2:05 am

Few more thoughts....

Not only have Penguins treated us to two consecutive Stanley Cups, but some damn exciting hockey enroute. Think about it.

Opening series both years, Penguins took in five games.

Then there's Washington. Pens win two overtime games last year, including the series clincher. They lose that, it's back to Washington for Game 7, which nobody wants. Well...nobody wants, except it's exactly what we got this year and, contrary to most expectations, Pens shut out the Caps behind MAF, 2-0.

Then, ECF both years go seven games. Last year, Pens climb out of a 3-2 hole, and win the finale, hanging onto a one-goal lead for the final half of the game. This year, biggest goal in Penguins history to win a double-OT affair in Game 7.

Both finals go six games, both exciting affairs, this year, ending with arguably the second most important goal in Penguins history.

How about that....two most important goals in Penguins history registered with a 17-day period.

Little more....
*Said this last night, take out Hagelin's empty netter, and during the 13 games of the semis and finals, Pens were held to one goal seven times....and won TWICE. Shutting out the opponent three times helped...in Pens remaining five wins in those series, they surrender three goals once, two goals three times and one goal once.

A certain symmetry to all these two years.

Legacy User
Posts: 288947
Joined: Mon Dec 02, 2019 1:19 am

Post by Legacy User » Tue Jun 13, 2017 2:54 am

yep..teams been an exhausting joy in my life!!....speaking of excitement..rember the back to back heart attack finals vs red wings? I aged several years on those unreal series and closing moments. :shock:
has a ''rookie'' goaltender ever won 2 Stanley cups? amazing feat indeed by murray..

User avatar
bradshaw2ben
Site Admin
Posts: 30409
Joined: Sat Sep 21, 2019 2:51 am
Location: Los Angeles
Contact:

Post by bradshaw2ben » Tue Jun 13, 2017 7:37 am

fractal, if they let Bonino, Cullen, Kunitz, & Daley go-- that's a hell of a lot of role playing talent to replace in one off season. All four of those guys were incredibly important contributors in the cup run. I'll bet you they figure out some way to keep at least two of those guys.

Hell, Cullen & Kunitz might have been two of their 3 best players last night.
“We are the stupidest fucking franchise ever.” — Smithessmokin

swissvale72
Posts: 2973
Joined: Wed Sep 25, 2019 1:43 am

Post by swissvale72 » Tue Jun 13, 2017 11:11 am

Bit of an oddity (maybe not) that I found in checking the plus/minus on the scoresheet. Hagelin had a +2, Kunitz had a 0. Impossible I thought, as Kunitz assisted on the Hornquist goal. Well...upon further review, Kunitz passed to Schultz, immediately left the ice in favor of Hagelin, who was on the ice when Hornquist potted the winner.

alancac98
Posts: 768
Joined: Mon Sep 23, 2019 12:41 pm

Post by alancac98 » Tue Jun 13, 2017 11:52 am

bradshaw2ben wrote:fractal, if they let Bonino, Cullen, Kunitz, & Daley go-- that's a hell of a lot of role playing talent to replace in one off season. All four of those guys were incredibly important contributors in the cup run. I'll bet you they figure out some way to keep at least two of those guys.

Hell, Cullen & Kunitz might have been two of their 3 best players last night.


I think they will get deals done with Bonino and Daley. Love to see Cullen come back, but it would be hard not to go out on a run like this. If he does leave, I think they need to bring him back as a coach to teach how to win faceoffs!

alancac98
Posts: 768
Joined: Mon Sep 23, 2019 12:41 pm

Post by alancac98 » Tue Jun 13, 2017 11:52 am

Crosby video of his year! Amazing run he has had this year.

https://sports.yahoo.com/mario-lemieux-touts-sidney-crosby-one-best-time-172627500.html

User avatar
fractalsteel
Posts: 3907
Joined: Sun Sep 22, 2019 1:21 pm
Location: Next to the pony wall removing a circular column

Post by fractalsteel » Tue Jun 13, 2017 1:48 pm

bradshaw2ben wrote:fractal, if they let Bonino, Cullen, Kunitz, & Daley go-- that's a hell of a lot of role playing talent to replace in one off season. All four of those guys were incredibly important contributors in the cup run. I'll bet you they figure out some way to keep at least two of those guys.

Hell, Cullen & Kunitz might have been two of their 3 best players last night.


Cullen is the wild card because it is up to him. At another million a year he would be welcomed back. Might leave it up to his young sons to make the decision. Those boys are little hellions.
Bonino is the youngest of the group and probably the most important one. Making nearly 2 million a year and coming off back to back cups as a key part might make him too expensive on the open market. I read that he could be looking at offers of up to 4 million a year which the Pens won't pay.
Kunitz is so close to being done. If he would accept a million a year I'd guess the team would think about it. At 3.7 million(current salary) the Pens won't renew those numbers.
Daley gets hurt too much and is replaceable.
The Pens could have nearly 13 million freed up in cap space before they figure out what is going to happen with Fleury's contract. That gives them a chance to improve the back end and maybe a third line center.

Dea and Sundqvist will compete for the fourth line center job leaving the third line open unless Cullen comes back or Bones takes a ridiculous discount contract.

I still can't believe that Cullen had anything left in the tank at the end. All the minutes he played the last quarter of the regular season when Malkin was out should have fried him. Incredible athlete he is.

And you are right about all the extra games the Pens have played the past two post seasons. More than half a season. And it will be weird when we watch Sullivan and crew finally lose a playoff series.
All that comes after the 3peat.

User avatar
Pabst
Posts: 7436
Joined: Sun Sep 22, 2019 8:14 pm

Post by Pabst » Tue Jun 13, 2017 2:12 pm


User avatar
jeemie
Posts: 8178
Joined: Sun Sep 22, 2019 10:32 pm

Post by jeemie » Tue Jun 13, 2017 2:32 pm

Pabst wrote:Just in case anyone missed this gem: https://twitter.com/NHLonNBCSports/status/874119301166399488


Saw that happen live- laughed my head off.
“Yeah we suck, be there is a chance we could suck slightly more if we try to correct the problem.” - Art Deuce (summarized by SteelPerch)

User avatar
bradshaw2ben
Site Admin
Posts: 30409
Joined: Sat Sep 21, 2019 2:51 am
Location: Los Angeles
Contact:

Post by bradshaw2ben » Tue Jun 13, 2017 2:41 pm

Jeemie wrote:
Pabst wrote:Just in case anyone missed this gem: https://twitter.com/NHLonNBCSports/status/874119301166399488


Saw that happen live- laughed my head off.

BTW, from what I could tell, he had those boys trained to not touch the Cup-- you know where they are headed in about 15 years.
“We are the stupidest fucking franchise ever.” — Smithessmokin

User avatar
bradshaw2ben
Site Admin
Posts: 30409
Joined: Sat Sep 21, 2019 2:51 am
Location: Los Angeles
Contact:

Post by bradshaw2ben » Tue Jun 13, 2017 2:46 pm

I don't know how anybody could see the end of game 6 and think Kunitz is close to done. He was so good in Game 6 and in the previous series Game 7. I don't know what a guy like that is worth, especially if you have to save him during the regular season and since he takes up the spot of a young guy, but it's no coincidence he's won 4 cups.
“We are the stupidest fucking franchise ever.” — Smithessmokin

Legacy User
Posts: 288947
Joined: Mon Dec 02, 2019 1:19 am

Post by Legacy User » Tue Jun 13, 2017 5:03 pm

swissvale72 wrote:Bit of an oddity (maybe not) that I found in checking the plus/minus on the scoresheet. Hagelin had a +2, Kunitz had a 0. Impossible I thought, as Kunitz assisted on the Hornquist goal. Well...upon further review, Kunitz passed to Schultz, immediately left the ice in favor of Hagelin, who was on the ice when Hornquist potted the winner.


and that's exactly why the +/- stat is almost totally worthless

Louis Lipps Service
Posts: 3252
Joined: Tue Sep 24, 2019 4:33 pm

Post by Louis Lipps Service » Tue Jun 13, 2017 5:10 pm

bradshaw2ben wrote:I don't know how anybody could see the end of game 6 and think Kunitz is close to done. He was so good in Game 6 and in the previous series Game 7. I don't know what a guy like that is worth, especially if you have to save him during the regular season and since he takes up the spot of a young guy, but it's no coincidence he's won 4 cups.


His scoring ability is steadily declining to the point where I don't really consider him much of a threat anymore. His hands weren't particularly good this season, although he did have a little bit of a renaissance in the playoffs in that regard. He made some passes during the playoffs that he spent most of the regular season fucking up on a regular basis.

That said, he's certainly a contributor in a lot of areas. He's one of the very few physical presences we have. While I have no problem focusing on a skill/speed approach, you still need a guy like him in your lineup to keep some flexibility, particularly in the playoffs.

So, I'd love to keep him as a 4th/3rd line option. I'd prefer to not to see him on Sid's line particularly often, however. I know Sid likes playing with him and all, but I don't think that's the best spot for him anymore, aside from a lineup tweak here and there to add some physicality (as we saw in some games during the playoff run).

User avatar
jeemie
Posts: 8178
Joined: Sun Sep 22, 2019 10:32 pm

Post by jeemie » Tue Jun 13, 2017 5:50 pm

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZEldgFy6J1w[/youtube]
“Yeah we suck, be there is a chance we could suck slightly more if we try to correct the problem.” - Art Deuce (summarized by SteelPerch)

Hacksaw Jim Duggan
Posts: 1047
Joined: Sun Oct 13, 2019 12:22 am

Post by Hacksaw Jim Duggan » Wed Jun 14, 2017 3:21 am

Kunitz had a great final 7 games. You know what I'd like to see? A fresh, young player getting a full season in the lineup and given a chance to make an impact next postseason. Before those last 7 games, Kunitz was a drain on multiple lines and, in my opinion, was one of the main reasons Sidney Crosby lost the Art Ross. Seven games doesn't a good player make. There's two years of empirical evidence of Kunitz's decline. He'd seem like a great player to keep in the organization as a coach or in another capacity. Cast him into the sunset.

I expect Cullen to retire. Well played, sir.

I expect Hainsey to not be re-signed. Minus a game or two, he was THE worst defensemen I've seen in a Penguins uniform in quite awhile. That includes Rob Scuderi, the player I hate the most in my entire life.

The Penguins will have just enough money to re-sign their own players. If the cap stays flat, which I've heard projected, they might lose a Daley or might have to get creative in finding a replacement for Bonino.

A flat cap ONLY helps the Penguins, as many of their top opponents would need to make heavy cuts just to field a roster under the cap. Chicago for instance is already 4.5 million OVER the cap before re-signing any players.

Here are my expected cap hits a season for RFAs/UFAs:
Schultz 4.5 (The most important player to sign this offseason. I think he comes back at a relative discount. If not, I'd go as high as 5. I wonder if they qualify him and a team offer sheets and the Pens accept the picks. Picks could be used for another D, I suppose.)
Sheary 3 (Needs to prove more to get that mega contract. Struggled when he's needed most. Looks injury prone.)
Dumo 3.75 (Probably the best pure defender on the team. He doesn't score, which will limit his $.)
Daley 2.5 (won't make more than last contract with older age and more injury tread; likes the city and Sid)
Bonino 4 (this may be his time to cash out, and I think this is a pipe dream; however, he's come off a rough regular season and will be coming off a tibia break. if a 3C can be found in a trade that's cheaper, the move will be made. I wouldn't go longer than 3 years on Bonino.)
Kunitz - Retires (see ya)
Hainsey - Unsigned (awful)


The perfect scenario would be for Fleury and Hagelin to be traded/acquired without any salary coming back to the Penguins. Hagelin had a great SCF game 6 and his presence on the second line with Kessel and Malkin was THE best line for the Penguins this year during the regular season; however, the team proved to be successful without him and a lot of guys can compensate for Hagelin's role at pennies of what Hagelin makes. Unfortunately, his disappearance makes the most sense for this team moving forward.


Image

This is the optimal lineup for the team when not accounting for any major trades or major outside FAs , as it maintains the D, which is bolstered by Letang and runs 7 deep with Ruhwedel, opens up an option for a $1.5 million backup goalie or additional money for Bonino, leaves an easy opening for Sprong to be inserted midseason, and allows for an easy addition of a veteran 4th line C. The return of Dom Moore would be great, although I think he wants to stay in Boston.

What's likely to happen is Rutherford will go hog wild this offseason. i wouldn't be surprised if a big name or young kid is traded and if the Penguins look completely different on the blue line. I wouldn't be surprised if a big time winger comes in. I'd welcome major change. I think the team looks flat without it.

User avatar
bradshaw2ben
Site Admin
Posts: 30409
Joined: Sat Sep 21, 2019 2:51 am
Location: Los Angeles
Contact:

Post by bradshaw2ben » Wed Jun 14, 2017 4:41 am

IDK, Hack. I watch the Pens behind the scenes videos and I think: they'd be wise to keep this group together for as long they can with a salary cap, and most of this team's players are going to be willing to sign workable deals to stay, if at all possible.

This group is ridiculously tight.

You can look at players on paper or based on what they did or didn't do this year-- but, truth is: next year is a new year. The only guys I think it's safe to assume are gone are Hainsey, Flower, & Cullen. There's a good possibility they lose a Maata, Cole, Corrado, Wilson, or Rowney in the expansion draft.

Otherwise, I think they keep a lid on that room, with good reason.
“We are the stupidest fucking franchise ever.” — Smithessmokin

Hacksaw Jim Duggan
Posts: 1047
Joined: Sun Oct 13, 2019 12:22 am

Post by Hacksaw Jim Duggan » Wed Jun 14, 2017 5:45 am

bradshaw2ben wrote:IDK, Hack. I watch the Pens behind the scenes videos and I think: they'd be wise to keep this group together for as long they can with a salary cap, and most of this team's players are going to be willing to sign workable deals to stay, if at all possible.

This group is ridiculously tight.

You can look at players on paper or based on what they did or didn't do this year-- but, truth is: next year is a new year. The only guys I think it's safe to assume are gone are Hainsey, Flower, & Cullen. There's a good possibility they lose a Maata, Cole, Corrado, Wilson, or Rowney in the expansion draft.

Otherwise, I think they keep a lid on that room, with good reason.


I think they'll more or less keep the important guys that mold the room, but if there's anything I've learned, you have to have an influx of players that have never been there or are hungry to make a name for themselves. I'd be 100% comfortable with that roster above, which brings the crew back again more or less, but I'd totally get if Rutherford wanted to rock the boat.


I think having entirely the same roster as last season was a minor mistake, mainly because of how that blew up in the team's face after 2009 when they brought back the same team pretty much in 2010 and typically is a bad idea in the NHL and other sports (Super Bowl hangover, no repeat NHL champs in 20ish years). Although it was the same team going into this year, think of how different it looked at the end of the season. Fehr was traded. Guentzel, Archibald, Hainsey, Streit, Schultz (who basically was a new player in a new role), Ruhwedel, Rowney, and Wilson (who didn't get to experience playoff hockey last year) made this team look vastly different than the last playoff run. With the exception of Streit, all of those guys had at least a moment or played a huge role in this year's playoff run. So, despite it not being entirely by choice, the team looked vastly different this year. I think we saw how these new players were embraced (by the captain) and how well they fit the already strong mold. Look at who Crosby handed the cup to. Yes, Fleury, Kunitz, and Cullen will be huge losses to the atmosphere, but they're necessary decisions and they must be made. The world revolves around the camaraderie of #87, #71, #58, and #81. The captain will make sure that team is tight. It seems like Murray learned a lot from Fleury and is ready to take over that leadership role as well.

It's very important to plan for the future, too. Keeping the squad together too long ends in a tied up cap on an aging Dupuis and Kunitz. Not fun. Only the Penguins can stop the Penguins at this point. I saw that 2009-2016 era pissed away by failing to trade players for assets, being unwilling to keep or get the "right" type of player, failing to have a positive identity, keeping a coach too long, failing to develop any prospects, etc. Let's hope they keep their draft picks, keep developing guys, find ways to get more draft picks, make the right trades, and sign/re-sign the right guys. If they even do this at 75% of capacity, they should be contending all the way till Crosby's last game.

User avatar
Ice
Posts: 7150
Joined: Sun Sep 22, 2019 7:41 pm
Location: Delawhere?

Post by Ice » Wed Jun 14, 2017 11:30 am

I'm okay with them keeping this coach around for a while.
Nothing left to do but smile, smile, smile...

SteelWIll
Posts: 560
Joined: Tue Sep 24, 2019 7:26 pm

Post by SteelWIll » Wed Jun 14, 2017 1:38 pm

sure would like to keep Hagelin's speed--no one else has it and it's invaluable...

Louis Lipps Service
Posts: 3252
Joined: Tue Sep 24, 2019 4:33 pm

Post by Louis Lipps Service » Wed Jun 14, 2017 1:54 pm

SteelWill wrote:sure would like to keep Hagelin's speed--no one else has it and it's invaluable...


Yeah, it's easy to look at his offensive output, compare it to his cap hit and think he needs replaced. And while that cap hit is a little higher than I'd like, I don't think he's as easy to replace as some think.

His forechecking and penalty killing are great assets to have and just his overall speed gives teams headaches when combined with all the other skill we have. I think he's a pretty significant piece to the puzzle.

Locked Previous topicNext topic