Re-watch Offense

[jebrick]

It is more troubling that they did not adjust. Both outside Wr run flies and the TE runs a skinny post. Peppers can only handle one of them. have Rodgers do a crossing route at 10 yardish. Force the defense to change how they are playing.

[bradshaw2ben]

So 3TD catches a game instead of just two?

I hear what you are saying but geeesh, James hauled in two TDs Sunday.

With his size, he's a decent RZ target and hasn't shown to have poor hands.

What we need is better and more consistent playcalling.

He's just very limited in what he can do to get open and doesn't attract attention or concern from the D.

If he isn't attracting attention or concern from the D shouldnt that lead to a bunch of easy TDs?

And I agree on Grimble. He's shown some ability there

If he could get more than 5 yards down field it would

[bradshaw2ben]

It is more troubling that they did not adjust. Both outside Wr run flies and the TE runs a skinny post. Peppers can only handle one of them. have Rodgers do a crossing route at 10 yardish. Force the defense to change how they are playing.

Just running the outside guys on crossing routes 10 yards down field would do it. Outside guy runs a dig or post, inside guy runs a flag or go.

Turn screens into a stop and go-- they bite so hard on the screen action.

Also, different levels crossing-- it's remarkable the lack of imagination utilized.

[955876]

The top two TEs last year in terms of yards (Kelce & Olsen) had 4 and 3 TDs on the season.

James had 3.

My point is that these TE that can move and put up lots of yards but for whatever reason didn't put up a lot of TDs.

I'm not saying James is a stud but at same time don't think a faster TE would necessarily equate to a much better RZ offense. From the 20 maybe. But not when getting down closer. Which we struggle from as well.

Miller was far from a burner and yet he had his share of TDs.

League leader had 8. James (sharing time) was tied for 6th with 3.

The solution can't always be the requirement to field the better athlete in order to win the battle.

I saw a TD on MNF (think it was Vikes game) where the guy was schemed wide the fuck open from down close. How often to we see that here? Ever?

[955876]

Also, different levels crossing-- it's remarkable the lack of imagination utilized.

Was vanilla route trees also an edict from Deuce in addition to the mandate to run at all cost?

[Obviously]

So 3TD catches a game instead of just two?

I hear what you are saying but geeesh, James hauled in two TDs Sunday.

With his size, he's a decent RZ target and hasn't shown to have poor hands.

What we need is better and more consistent playcalling.

and Jesse did a good job on his two TDs-- just not sure it's sustainable to really stress the D. Just makes the catches when you get an opportunity and protect the football.

Many here had problems with Heath, too. Laughable.

[bradshaw2ben]

Obviously, you seem like a smart guy. Do you watch the NFL, other than when the Steelers are playing?

If so, where do you think Jesse James ranks in the hierarchy of current NFL TEs? How would you rate his ability to attack the deep seam?

[DP39]

Obviously, you seem like a smart guy. Do you watch the NFL, other than when the Steelers are playing?

If so, where do you think Jesse James ranks in the hierarchy of current NFL TEs? How would you rate his ability to attack the deep seam?

I'm not entirely sure JJ has ever seen the deep seam, much less attacked it.

[steelclan]

I have all 22 as well and Ben made an awful play on that 3rd and 9. If Ben takes a split second to look to his right he would see Ju Ju streaking by his man with safety leaning towards Bryant. All he had to do is throw ball towards sideline into acres of space in end zone for Ju Ju to run under. If not that then Bell wide open underneath running away from Lber with 20 plus yards of green grass in front of him. Instead he threw into teeth of coverage where both Bryant and AB attracted double & in Bryant's case triple team. I get frustration over screens etc but it is plays like this that put bad teams away and have to be made. AB & Bryant did their jobs by opening up the entire right side of the field Ben has to know this and take advantage of it. Instead Steelers let Browns back in the game.

As to the universal criticism of Haley. Yes he deserves a huge chunk, however, we have a veteran play caller who can change plays. He has that option and we cannot run around screaming at the coaches all day when it is obvious to all of us a simple change in play call is needed. That 2nd 1 situation with crap pass to Bell and piss poor 3rd n 1 conversion was right out of the Bruce Arians play book who btw threw a ton of WR screens and hot routes that used to get people so steamed it was comical. Yet now some of the very same posters think Arians walks on water. Funny how that works.

[steeledge]

I'm officially off the Tomlin train.

I'm not calling for Tomlin's head, but I'm off the train and watching.

This organization DESPERATELY needs a brilliant offensive mind at a high position. We don't have one. SERIOUS problem.

Maybe Haley/Tomlin will adjust enough to get the most out of this personnel group. Or maybe not. I'll believe it when I see it at this point.

So, we've now established that Tomlin is absolutely NOT that "brilliant offensive mind", neither is he the "brilliant defensive coach" everybody expected, nor can he gameplan to save his life...

exactly what fucking purpose does he serve at this point, other than to deflect?!

...enough is enough!

[955876]

I have all 22 as well and Ben made an awful play on that 3rd and 9. If Ben takes a split second to look to his right he would see Ju Ju streaking by his man with safety leaning towards Bryant. All he had to do is throw ball towards sideline into acres of space in end zone for Ju Ju to run under. If not that then Bell wide open underneath running away from Lber with 20 plus yards of green grass in front of him. Instead he threw into teeth of coverage where both Bryant and AB attracted double & in Bryant's case triple team. I get frustration over screens etc but it is plays like this that put bad teams away and have to be made. AB & Bryant did their jobs by opening up the entire right side of the field Ben has to know this and take advantage of it. Instead Steelers let Browns back in the game.

As to the universal criticism of Haley. Yes he deserves a huge chunk, however, we have a veteran play caller who can change plays. He has that option and we cannot run around screaming at the coaches all day when it is obvious to all of us a simple change in play call is needed. That 2nd 1 situation with crap pass to Bell and piss poor 3rd n 1 conversion was right out of the Bruce Arians play book who btw threw a ton of WR screens and hot routes that used to get people so steamed it was comical. Yet now some of the very same posters think Arians walks on water. Funny how that works.

Good post & points. I don't take the time to scrub film but did notice in a few occasions Sunday where we had a wide open option yet Ben was locked-in looking only where he wanted to look.

Seems when the offense is struggling is when his tunnel vision rears its ugly head. Would the offense struggle so as much if he would find these wide open receivers? Likely not.

Seems to that he will ignore players he doesn't trust at these times as well. Maybe the vet Hunter should have gotten the nod over JuJu. Maybe that would not have mattered either.

And while I don't place the MOST blame at Ben's feet, I have felt he has had his hand in the mix with some real stinker games & decisions.

[steelclan]

I have all 22 as well and Ben made an awful play on that 3rd and 9. If Ben takes a split second to look to his right he would see Ju Ju streaking by his man with safety leaning towards Bryant. All he had to do is throw ball towards sideline into acres of space in end zone for Ju Ju to run under. If not that then Bell wide open underneath running away from Lber with 20 plus yards of green grass in front of him. Instead he threw into teeth of coverage where both Bryant and AB attracted double & in Bryant's case triple team. I get frustration over screens etc but it is plays like this that put bad teams away and have to be made. AB & Bryant did their jobs by opening up the entire right side of the field Ben has to know this and take advantage of it. Instead Steelers let Browns back in the game.

As to the universal criticism of Haley. Yes he deserves a huge chunk, however, we have a veteran play caller who can change plays. He has that option and we cannot run around screaming at the coaches all day when it is obvious to all of us a simple change in play call is needed. That 2nd 1 situation with crap pass to Bell and piss poor 3rd n 1 conversion was right out of the Bruce Arians play book who btw threw a ton of WR screens and hot routes that used to get people so steamed it was comical. Yet now some of the very same posters think Arians walks on water. Funny how that works.

Good post & points. I don't take the time to scrub film but did notice in a few occasions Sunday where we had a wide open option yet Ben was locked-in looking only where he wanted to look.

Seems when the offense is struggling is when his tunnel vision rears its ugly head. Would the offense struggle so as much if he would find these wide open receivers? Likely not.

Seems to that he will ignore players he doesn't trust at these times as well. Maybe the vet Hunter should have gotten the nod over JuJu. Maybe that would not have mattered either.

And while I don't place the MOST blame at Ben's feet, I have felt he has had his hand in the mix with some real stinker games & decisions.

Fair cop and given success of that play scheme rather than execution wise it is a shame Steelers didn't run that more. AB & Bryant had entire Browns D following them like a creepy stalker on speed. If this offense wants to be what it can be Steelers have to take advantage of teams willing to put just about half their defense into stopping Bryant/AB. I like DHB as a teamer but not as WR rather add in Hunter's ability to run 9s/posts and it create even more space. Steelers had a rookie safety ready to bite on just about anything and did very little to test him.

[bradshaw2ben]

I have all 22 as well and Ben made an awful play on that 3rd and 9. If Ben takes a split second to look to his right he would see Ju Ju streaking by his man with safety leaning towards Bryant. All he had to do is throw ball towards sideline into acres of space in end zone for Ju Ju to run under. If not that then Bell wide open underneath running away from Lber with 20 plus yards of green grass in front of him. Instead he threw into teeth of coverage where both Bryant and AB attracted double & in Bryant's case triple team. I get frustration over screens etc but it is plays like this that put bad teams away and have to be made. AB & Bryant did their jobs by opening up the entire right side of the field Ben has to know this and take advantage of it. Instead Steelers let Browns back in the game.

As to the universal criticism of Haley. Yes he deserves a huge chunk, however, we have a veteran play caller who can change plays. He has that option and we cannot run around screaming at the coaches all day when it is obvious to all of us a simple change in play call is needed. That 2nd 1 situation with crap pass to Bell and piss poor 3rd n 1 conversion was right out of the Bruce Arians play book who btw threw a ton of WR screens and hot routes that used to get people so steamed it was comical. Yet now some of the very same posters think Arians walks on water. Funny how that works.

Ben can only change from certain called plays to certain audibles, especially when the play comes in late. The most likely is a change between an interior run play and a different run play or interior run play and outside screen. There is an occasional opportunity for a WR running a check with me route on a run play. Very difficult with 10-12 seconds on play clock to change formation and give routes to all the receivers, which is what it would be to switch from, say a WR screen to smash combo on one side and double post on the other. I think the adjustments at the line are generally small ones in this offense. They probably have a handful of go-to audible options for Ben.

[LakecrestSteeler]

So 3TD catches a game instead of just two?

I hear what you are saying but geeesh, James hauled in two TDs Sunday.

With his size, he's a decent RZ target and hasn't shown to have poor hands.

What we need is better and more consistent playcalling.

He's just very limited in what he can do to get open and doesn't attract attention or concern from the D.

+100....Just in terms of passing. I have not watched him enough in blocking situations, but suspect his build can’t make him that dominant.

[steelclan]

James blocked ok he struggles whenever he has to block someone in space. It is one many reasons the screen love affair is so puzzling.

[Legacy User]

I have all 22 as well and Ben made an awful play on that 3rd and 9. If Ben takes a split second to look to his right he would see Ju Ju streaking by his man with safety leaning towards Bryant. All he had to do is throw ball towards sideline into acres of space in end zone for Ju Ju to run under. If not that then Bell wide open underneath running away from Lber with 20 plus yards of green grass in front of him. Instead he threw into teeth of coverage where both Bryant and AB attracted double & in Bryant's case triple team. I get frustration over screens etc but it is plays like this that put bad teams away and have to be made. AB & Bryant did their jobs by opening up the entire right side of the field Ben has to know this and take advantage of it. Instead Steelers let Browns back in the game.

Troof bomb

[jeemie]

I have all 22 as well and Ben made an awful play on that 3rd and 9. If Ben takes a split second to look to his right he would see Ju Ju streaking by his man with safety leaning towards Bryant. All he had to do is throw ball towards sideline into acres of space in end zone for Ju Ju to run under. If not that then Bell wide open underneath running away from Lber with 20 plus yards of green grass in front of him. Instead he threw into teeth of coverage where both Bryant and AB attracted double & in Bryant's case triple team. I get frustration over screens etc but it is plays like this that put bad teams away and have to be made. AB & Bryant did their jobs by opening up the entire right side of the field Ben has to know this and take advantage of it. Instead Steelers let Browns back in the game.

Troof bomb

Ben's best games are when he uses everybody...when eight different guys catch passes.

I'm going to harp on this until I'm blue in the face. Maybe he oughtn't have had only two series of work and every third day off in preseason.

We can't wait four weeks for him to build trust in JuJu and Eli while he forces every other pass to Antonio and Martavis.

[Legacy User]

I for one am ready to stop fretting over the browns win and take on the Vikings

[Jobu]

I for one am ready to stop fretting over the browns win and take on the Vikings

What?!?!?

[Legacy User]

I for one am ready to stop fretting over the browns win and take on the Vikings

Nope, the steelerfury.com board is still working on the book titled "What Happened" in reference to why the win over Cleveland was not as certain as expected.

[Havoc]

I for one am ready to stop fretting over the browns win and take on the Vikings

Nope, the steelerfury.com board is still working on the book titled "What Happened" in reference to why the win over Cleveland was not as certain as expected.

Dumb post jaybird. You are better than that.

That's not what the discussion has been about.

[Legacy User]

I for one am ready to stop fretting over the browns win and take on the Vikings

Nope, the steelerfury.com board is still working on the book titled "What Happened" in reference to why the win over Cleveland was not as certain as expected.

Dumb post jaybird. You are better than that.

That's not what the discussion has been about.

Yes it is.

[Havoc]

Yes it is.

Do you understand anything meaningful about sports?

[steeledge]

I for one am ready to stop fretting over the browns win and take on the Vikings

Nope, the steelerfury.com board is still working on the book titled "What Happened" in reference to why the win over Cleveland was not as certain as expected.

yeah, let's wait until we lose to inferior teams instead of eeking by them to say "What Happened?!"

[Havoc]

Many on this board watch their favorite teams whether football or other sports with deeper and bigger things in mind than the final score.

It's not about the browns game, it's much bigger than that.

[jeemie]

Yes it is.

Actually it's about highlighting yet again that although the Steelers talk big, one game's worth of evidence shows nothing has changed. They still do the stupid things that let inferior teams hang with them with a chance to actually upset them.

Think on the ramifications that the Browns, with a ROOKIE QUARTERBACK, ran a more wide-open, modern offense than the Steelers, with a 14-year veteran future Hall-of-Famer at the helm. We cannot...CANNOT...win a Super Bowl that way.

The ONLY wild card is Ben's attitude. Looks like he's going to put up with much less shit this season, and WILL retire if things don't change.

Of course, here's hoping his attitude leads to better performances from HIM as well.

[bradshaw2ben]

It's true that spreading the ball around-- Ben is a point guard, after all-- is a sign that things are clicking. On the other hand, those other guys rarely got separation early in routes and dropped dimes laid out to them when they did. It's why a good offensive plan and play design is essential, even with loads of talent.

[jeemie]

It's true that spreading the ball around-- Ben is a point guard, after all-- is a sign that things are clicking. On the other hand, those other guys rarely got separation early in routes and dropped dimes laid out to them when they did. It's why a good offensive plan and play design is essential, even with loads of talent.

As Clan pointed out, there were times the other guys were open and Ben didn't go to them.

So it's a mixture of both.

[bradshaw2ben]

It's true that spreading the ball around-- Ben is a point guard, after all-- is a sign that things are clicking. On the other hand, those other guys rarely got separation early in routes and dropped dimes laid out to them when they did. It's why a good offensive plan and play design is essential, even with loads of talent.

As Clan pointed out, there were times the other guys were open and Ben didn't go to them.

So it's a mixture of both.

I understand they sometimes got open but you have to deliver when called upon or you're not always going to get the ball just because you're open.

The INT play was an extreme example, but understand that Ben had a wide open TD on the play before, facing the same defense, and called the same play with a better WR-- logical that he thought he'd have a good shot at that post.

[Obviously]

Yes it is.

Do you understand anything meaningful about sports?

Luca's a "Unicorns and Rainbows" guy. The Steelers can do no wrong and shouldn't be criticized at all.