FIRE TOMLIN NOW PLEASE

[Louis Lipps Service]

That was a total dad joke, but well played

I'm not above that.

[jeemie]

Here’s a question for you, B2B.

How many times did Ben have to engineer a fourth quarter drive because he had squandered earlier attempts to put the game away with ill-advised picks?

[lifelongsteel]

What we're simply arguing here, I think, is whether Ben is one of the super-elite-all-timers, of which I think there are three in the modern era (Montana, Brady, Manning) or "just" an elite 1st ballot HOF (Elway, Marino, Bradshaw, Brees, Favre, Rodgers)

He's the latter. But, he's one historic, Joe Flacco like postseason run, from joining the former.

And to make that historic Flaccoesque run he's going to need to shitcan the bad INT's.

[Louis Lipps Service]

What we're simply arguing here, I think, is whether Ben is one of the super-elite-all-timers, of which I think there are three in the modern era (Montana, Brady, Manning) or "just" an elite 1st ballot HOF (Elway, Marino, Bradshaw, Brees, Favre, Rodgers)

He's the latter. But, he's one historic, Joe Flacco like postseason run, from joining the former.

And to make that historic Flaccoesque run he's going to need to shitcan the bad INT's.

Essentially.

I mean, it's not like anyone here is advocating that we trade or replace Ben. I don't think there's a single, rational, person here that doesn't want him lining up under center for us every Sunday, and I certainly haven't seen any posts suggesting anything along those lines.

So, I think he's very much appreciated.

It's just sometimes aggravating to watch a guy that you know is such a great quarterback occasionally do boneheaded things, and that's where the criticism comes in.

[COR-TEN]

This is the mistake you keep making over and over and over again, and why you're losing the respect of people here.

Not losing my respect. B2B is a positive minded individual, looking for the silver lining in all dark clouds. He is a fundamental building block of SF. I'd stop visiting if he were to disappear. Just like everybody else here, you have to take the posts with either a minuscule grain of salt, or a mountain. Most require a mountain, but a handful, including B2B, deserve your respect and admiration for being positive.

I'm not dissing that. Neither should you.

I'm also not dissing his football IQ, which is probably above 90% of posters. He isn't the only one leaning on perception to make a point.

You guys would take ryan, cousins, watson, dalton, wentz, carr prescott, tannehill, luck, newton and stafford over BR? Really? Mahomes is a one year wonder. Add to that Goff. RIvers, Brees and brady, maybe better than BR. Maybe. Stats can be interpreted anyway you want.

BR is a gunslinger. You have to expect fickle results, but it also opens him up to criticism of not being safe or consistent. But for the most part, BR is on anyones best list with any metric you choose.

[Louis Lipps Service]

This is the mistake you keep making over and over and over again, and why you're losing the respect of people here.

Not losing my respect. B2B is a positive minded individual, looking for the silver lining in all dark clouds. He is a fundamental building block of SF. I'd stop visiting if he were to disappear. Just like everybody else here, you have to take the posts with either a minuscule grain of salt, or a mountain. Most require a mountain, but a handful, including B2B, deserve your respect and admiration for being positive.

I'm not dissing that. Neither should you.

I'm also not dissing his football IQ, which is probably above 90% of posters. He isn't the only one leaning on perception to make a point.

I've acknowledged B2B's football IQ repeatedly in recent weeks. And I think your 90% figure is quite low.

However, knowledge is useless if it gets washed away in the message. And that's what's happening right now as B2B is constantly scrambling to every single post that slights Ben in even the most trivial way.

You guys would take ryan, cousins, watson, dalton, wentz, carr prescott, tannehill, luck, newton and stafford over BR? Really? Mahomes is a one year wonder. Add to that Goff. RIvers, Brees and brady, maybe better than BR. Maybe. Stats can be interpreted anyway you want.

I never said I'd take any of those guys. Neither did anyone else. B2B presented a stat as he was once again running to Ben's defense, and I simply showed how how out of context that stat was by providing a list of all the QBs who were currently outpacing Ben in the stat that B2B chose. The fact that all of those QBs are ahead of Ben only shows how ridiculous B2B was being in quoting that stat in the first place.

BR is a gunslinger. You have to expect fickle results, but it also opens him up to criticism of not being safe or consistent. But for the most part, BR is on anyones best list with any metric you choose.

Ben has always been a gunslinger. But he hasn't always thrown this many INTs. He's on pace to throw the second most INTs in his career. People are complaining not because Ben isn't appreciated or they think he sucks, but because we all know he's capable of more.

[bradshaw2ben]

What we're simply arguing here, I think, is whether Ben is one of the super-elite-all-timers, of which I think there are three in the modern era (Montana, Brady, Manning) or "just" an elite 1st ballot HOF (Elway, Marino, Bradshaw, Brees, Favre, Rodgers)

He's the latter. But, he's one historic, Joe Flacco like postseason run, from joining the former.

And to make that historic Flaccoesque run he's going to need to shitcan the bad INT's.

I don't totally disagree, but few have thrown more shitcan postseason INTs in the modern era than Peyton, yet you have him first. In his 2 Super Bowl runs, he totaled 5TDs and 8 INTs.

And I totally agree that Ben needs to avoid bad INTs. No one is arguing that point. We're arguing about what are bad INTs and whether Ben throws too many for the results he gets.

And as for the, "how many comebacks did Ben have because of his earlier-in-the-game mistakes?"... this is the exact argument used to downplay Elway, and I'll answer your question with a question: "How many interceptions and comebacks did Ben have because his team asked him to protect the D, convert 3rd downs instead of attacking on early downs, etc? How many did he have because his defense gave it up like the prom queen late in games (see all-time great defense in Super Bowl vs Arizona)?"

I think the answer is: sure, Ben isn't perfect. If you think that's my position, you're creating a straw man. I think you can critique his game all day long. But to act like he makes more mistakes or is less accurate or makes more poor decisions than average or even more than other top QBs... it's just not an informed argument. For example, Brees, Brady, Wilson, & Goff all just had killer red zone INTs in the past two weeks. Brees, Brady, and Goff were missing guys on short routes by 3 or 4 feet–stuff you'd crucify Ben for. At least 2/3 of Ben's INTs this year are bad bounces, missed DPI, or mistakes by his receivers. So, what's he have 5 or 6 legit INTs? I'd rather that he try to make great plays and make some mistakes than some theoretical universe where he would only make safe plays. He does pretty well protecting the ball when he's got a lead late, and that's my number one priority for ball security. Cincy game year before last when he threw that little sideline dumpoff right to a LB and Denver this year are pretty much the worst examples I can think of vs a ton of games where he either led to victory late, preserved vistory late, or put his team in position to win and kicker/defense failed.

[bradshaw2ben]

BR is a gunslinger. You have to expect fickle results, but it also opens him up to criticism of not being safe or consistent. But for the most part, BR is on anyones best list with any metric you choose.

Ben has always been a gunslinger. But he hasn't always thrown this many INTs. He's on pace to throw the second most INTs in his career. People are complaining not because Ben isn't appreciated or they think he sucks, but because we all know he's capable of more.[/quote]
Context, man. He's throwing the football a ton... and it won't even make his top 7 worst seasons for INT %... maybe not even top 9, by the time it all shakes out.

Ben INT % by season: 3.7, 3.4, 4.9, 2.7, 3.2, 2.4, 1.3, 2.7, 1.8, 2.4, 1.5, 3.4, 2.6, 2.5, 2.6

[Legacy User]

Noticed the sig Obviously. Class act.

Join the party. All the cool kids are doing it.

[Legacy User]

Noticed the sig Obviously. Class act.

Join the party. All the cool kids are doing it.

[Obviously]

Noticed the sig Obviously. Class act.

Thanks Brother. I believe Polt, DP39 and Lit have it, too. If I missed somebody I apologize. CdnSteelerFan will win.

[Legacy User]

Yo, fire tomlin

[Legacy User]

yea, well, this is all just wishful thinking --

no way does AR2 ever fire Mike Tomlin -- never gonna happen

1. Never had a losing record
2. Went to 2 Super Bowls
3. Hired under his dad's "Rooney Rule" mandate

It's fun to rant and complain, but I know we are stuck with this stupid-mother fucking overrated coach