That was a great game by Mason

[SteelPro]

I think Mason has been outstanding to this point. He looks poised, makes plays, seems like a solid leader, and manages the game very well. But I do agree he really hasn't made any stick throws against tight coverage on intermediate routes. I worry that he will never really be able to get it done in
a two minute must score situation. And I worry that he might not make out very well in poor weather/windy conditions. So yeah, eventually we need to see him make some stick throws. But that isn't something to complain about right now. Give him a sample size of the whole season and see what happens.

[Jobu]

I have a hard time faulting Mason for this short passing game and so many passes at or behind the line of scrimmage.

The past 3 seasons, Big Ben led ALL NFL QBs with 379 such passes. He was the king of Dink and Dunk. You may not like it but this offense has been shifting to this short passing game for some time. Ben has been having a harder time throwing deep balls. Many of the deep balls that he has had the past couple seasons were of the variety where it was a short pass and it was yards after the catch brilliance by a JuJu, or a McDonald stiff arm assisted catch and run, or Brown doing his thing. When Ben does it, it is brilliant, when Mason does it, well, it doesn't count??

So, now with a team decimated with injury at FB and TE, trading for Vannett to be our #2 TE, having to press the rookie Gentry to play more this last game, having a rookie WR in Diontae Johnson, a 2nd year WR in Washington, a 2nd year RB in Samuels. Two of your most experienced skill position players are 3rd year starters in Conner and JuJu??

The intermediate passing game is a work in progress and it is going to take time to develop it with all of this youth. It was going to take time to develop even if Ben was healthy and playing.

To Havoc's point about being tied to Rudolph for the next 15 years and all of the gloom an doom. Man, step away from the ledge. I have no doubt that if the Steelers think another QB is worth drafting that they will do it. I don't see how people are so quick to just dismiss Rudolph so early. Let us see what he can do this season after 14.5 games, shall we??

Good points Scunge. It’s not just the QB that’s young and inexperienced...pretty much all of the offensive skill players are young and inexperienced. It’s a work in progress, for sure.

[Havoc]

I'm not writing off Rudolph. I'm saying I don't see anything in the toolkit that would have caused me to take a flyer on him at that time in Steelers history.

I got into a big sports argument with a buddy over the Mavericks this past off season. He was angry at the FO for not signing any free agents that he wanted. My position was....

The Mavericks are not going to win the championship this season so the important thing is they didn't do something stupid. They could have signed guys with the interest of being more competitive this season or they can take their time and look for the opportunity to sign the right players in future off seasons.

QB is the highest impact player on the field. I don't mind taking flyers on mid round QB's but due to my preference for QB skillsets a flyer on Dobbs made more sense to me.

I love the Hodges kid and I hope he gets a chance to show if he can play in the nfl with the Steelers. I do not know if he can or not.

Maybe Rudolph will become the next Brees but I don't think he has Brees freak level of accuracy. I am open to getting surprised.

[JJT07]

I'm not writing off Rudolph. I'm saying I don't see anything in the toolkit that would have caused me to take a flyer on him at that time in Steelers history.

I got into a big sports argument with a buddy over the Mavericks this past off season. He was angry at the FO for not signing any free agents that he wanted. My position was....

The Mavericks are not going to win the championship this season so the important thing is they didn't do something stupid. They could have signed guys with the interest of being more competitive this season or can they take their time and look for the opportunity to sign the right players in future off seasons.

QB is the highest impact player on the field. I don't mind taking flyers on mid round QB's but due to my preference for QB skillsets a flyer on Dobbs made more sense to me.

I love the Hodges kid and I hope he gets a chance to show if he can play in the nfl with the Steelers. I do not know if he can or not.

Maybe Rudolph will become the next Brees but I don't think he has Brees freak level of accuracy. I am open to getting surprised.

So then this basically comes down to arm strength for you? Certainly important, but not sure it is the most important trait for a QB. I think Mason's arm is strong enough, but time will tell for sure.

[ToddHaleysNineIron]

Personally I don't mind dump offs to RB's that move the chains.
High completion %
More first downs
More TOP

We really haven't seen that the past few years... but then again we were blessed with Ben and AB playing street ball and tearing up defenses.

At the same time our defense was pushed past its limits.

[Havoc]

I'm not writing off Rudolph. I'm saying I don't see anything in the toolkit that would have caused me to take a flyer on him at that time in Steelers history.

I got into a big sports argument with a buddy over the Mavericks this past off season. He was angry at the FO for not signing any free agents that he wanted. My position was....

The Mavericks are not going to win the championship this season so the important thing is they didn't do something stupid. They could have signed guys with the interest of being more competitive this season or can they take their time and look for the opportunity to sign the right players in future off seasons.

QB is the highest impact player on the field. I don't mind taking flyers on mid round QB's but due to my preference for QB skillsets a flyer on Dobbs made more sense to me.

I love the Hodges kid and I hope he gets a chance to show if he can play in the nfl with the Steelers. I do not know if he can or not.

Maybe Rudolph will become the next Brees but I don't think he has Brees freak level of accuracy. I am open to getting surprised.

So then this basically comes down to arm strength for you? Certainly important, but not sure it is the most important trait for a QB. I think Mason's arm is strong enough, but time will tell for sure.

I have not adjusted to today's dink and dunk league

But seriously, I do like a QB that puts fear into defenses with his arm strength.

I also was one of the posters saying I wish we utilized Mendenhall more often on dump offs under Arians.

[Orangesteel]

Winning is more important than statistics. Bill B. once said “stats are for losers”, which is my favorite quote of his, though I have no idea if he even said that. But I love it.

[ToddHaleysNineIron]

I mean I'm sure we've seen the Deshaun Watson answer he gave a reporter about how the coverages affected his decisions in "throwing downfield". When he had his chance, he missed.. maybe 2 of them?

Honestly I think Ben got to the point where his recievers were so good, that even against a coverage - he could still make that throw. The problem is evnetually you start missing more often than you would probably like - especially in the midst of a game. That's when you need to adjust and understand a drive of 7 or 8 dump offs that move the chains can do wonders for the scoreboard and your defense. Going 3 and out too often puts serious strain on that defense, and on the offense to in that they can never get a rhythm.

I just don't think he could adjust to that at times, and who can blame him? Probably had AB in his ear, and had a lot of success to draw from.

The silver lining is while we don't have a HOF qb at the moment, we might have a guy whose efficient in a way we haven't seen, and a lot of teams have been successful with.. maybe there are things we don't see coming that are going to be good for winning football.

[Scunge]

One of the elephants in the room that nobody is talking about is that, yikes, is the left side of that offensive line playing pretty horrible right now??

I never really thought that Big Al was a Pro Bowl LT, but a tier below that on his best days. I think Ramon Foster has been underwhelming, that both he and Al have been really disappointing this season.

Many may point to Matt Feiler having some shaky moments but I expected that with him officially starting at RT. It is one thing to come in for stretches and replace a starter as he did last season when Gilbert went down, quite another to come into the season as the established starter and defenses have studied film on you in the offseason. So, with Feiler, it is understandable, but Al and Foster are vets, have played together, have that cohesion and really shouldn't have bad play.

I am actually amazed that Rudolph has played as well as he has, again, under the circumstances. Young players everywhere, rookies and 2nd year players. Then your starting FB is set to miss 5-6 games, which does the running games no favors. Your #2 TE in Grimble goes on IR, your starting #1 TE misses 1.5 games so far, you trade for a new #2 TE, who looks pretty good. Yeah, you have trouble getting intermediate passes thriving in the offense, don't forget that those young WRs lost their WR coach with the passing of Daryl Drake. Yeah, so they hired Ray Sherman as the interim WR coach, but they are all in a state of flux, adjusting to a new position coach, and the coach developing a rapport, a feel for his young charges.

Honestly? I don't see how Mason doesn't have 2 TDs and 6 INTs instead.

A 16 game season can do wonders for player development. I look at the rookie Diontae Johnson already and think that he has a legitimate chance of going over 1,000 yards this season. Nobody thought that JuJu would do what he did as a rookie, but he chipped away, put game after game together and then at the end of the season came real close to a 1,000 yard season and would have most likely done so had he not been suspended a game for that Burfect block/taunt.

Anyway, I am enjoying this season. If we make the playoffs or we don't and go 5-11, whatever. I am excited to watch Samuels, Johnson, Washington, Vannett, Bush, Nelson, Fitzpatrick, etc.

[Kodiak]

So now Fitchner is saying he really doesn't like the QB sneak, and if your OL and RB can't get the first then you don't deserve it. He's not opposed to it, just not in obvious situations


That's the 2nd OC with that philosophy, which I think puts such dumbfuckery solely on the shoulders of one Mike Tomlin.

[Jobu]

So now Fitchner is saying he really doesn't like the QB sneak, and if your OL and RB can't get the first then you don't deserve it. He's not opposed to it, just not in obvious situations


That's the 2nd OC with that philosophy, which I think puts such dumbfuckery solely on the shoulders of one Mike Tomlin.

I think you’d be surprised at how many football coaches don’t like the QB sneak.

[Kodiak]

I think you’d be surprised at how many football coaches don’t like the QB sneak.

I think I'd be surprised how few coaches regularly don't call the highest % play in that situation.

[Jobu]

I think you’d be surprised at how many football coaches don’t like the QB sneak.

I think I'd be surprised how few coaches regularly don't call the highest % play in that situation.

I didn’t say they were smart...

[stillthere]

Ben made 1 or 2 plays every game his rookie year that were plays few QB's could make plus his monster arm demonstrated his potential to be special.

Ben's 2004 Y/A 8.9 Beastly
Rudolph so far is at 7.0 Pedestrian

Rudolph hasn't played an entire season yet. Those numbers will increase as he gets more comfortable. Also, BR had the benefit of arians, who would routinely call vertical passing plays. And he had Holmes, Burress, and Ward. So far, all rudolph has is JuJu.

I don't understand why you can't see rudolph's upside. He's got the mentality, steel character, and skills and smarts to be a franchise QB imho. That throw to Vannett as an improvised back shoulder - caught inches off the ground - was super impressive. BR would have been sacked on that play. Not the young BR, the one they currently have. Rudolph as good pocket presence. Better than fucking Dalton and a great deal of starting NFL QB's.

I also think rudolph is less arrogant and cocky. More professional than BR was when he was younger. And doesn't have the relationship with fichtner like BR had with arians.

Call me optimistic.

Whisenhunt not Arians.

[El Kabong]

I'm not writing off Rudolph. I'm saying I don't see anything in the toolkit that would have caused me to take a flyer on him at that time in Steelers history.

I got into a big sports argument with a buddy over the Mavericks this past off season. He was angry at the FO for not signing any free agents that he wanted. My position was....

The Mavericks are not going to win the championship this season so the important thing is they didn't do something stupid. They could have signed guys with the interest of being more competitive this season or they can take their time and look for the opportunity to sign the right players in future off seasons.

QB is the highest impact player on the field. I don't mind taking flyers on mid round QB's but due to my preference for QB skillsets a flyer on Dobbs made more sense to me.

I love the Hodges kid and I hope he gets a chance to show if he can play in the nfl with the Steelers. I do not know if he can or not.

Maybe Rudolph will become the next Brees but I don't think he has Brees freak level of accuracy. I am open to getting surprised.

I have no idea what special skill set you think Dobbs has. Arm strength perhaps, but I say accuracy > arm strength, and Rudolph > Dobbs on that score making Rudolph the one to take the flyer on, not Dobbs.

Rightly or wrongly, Dobbs found himself on the field in Oakland last year, was charged with winning the game, and promptly puked all over his shoes. Now we've seen Mason win a game and play better than we've ever seen Dobbs play in other games this year. I have no idea at this point why anyone would prefer Dobbs to Mason.

I like Hodges too, because in the preseason he showed ACCURACY.

[El Kabong]

So now Fitchner is saying he really doesn't like the QB sneak, and if your OL and RB can't get the first then you don't deserve it. He's not opposed to it, just not in obvious situations


That's the 2nd OC with that philosophy, which I think puts such dumbfuckery solely on the shoulders of one Mike Tomlin.

If Fich says he doesn't like qb sneaks, then Fich is the one who doesn't like qb sneaks. Unless you're saying Tomlin should order Fich to call them. We don't know what Tomlin's stance on qb sneaks is.

[Obviously]

41-year old Brady QB sneaks at will and it works. Fuck Sphincter if he doesn't want to employ this strategy.

[Obviously]

I'm not writing off Rudolph. I'm saying I don't see anything in the toolkit that would have caused me to take a flyer on him at that time in Steelers history.

I got into a big sports argument with a buddy over the Mavericks this past off season. He was angry at the FO for not signing any free agents that he wanted. My position was....

The Mavericks are not going to win the championship this season so the important thing is they didn't do something stupid. They could have signed guys with the interest of being more competitive this season or they can take their time and look for the opportunity to sign the right players in future off seasons.

QB is the highest impact player on the field. I don't mind taking flyers on mid round QB's but due to my preference for QB skillsets a flyer on Dobbs made more sense to me.

I love the Hodges kid and I hope he gets a chance to show if he can play in the nfl with the Steelers. I do not know if he can or not.

Maybe Rudolph will become the next Brees but I don't think he has Brees freak level of accuracy. I am open to getting surprised.

I have no idea what special skill set you think Dobbs has. Arm strength perhaps, but I say accuracy > arm strength, and Rudolph > Dobbs on that score making Rudolph the one to take the flyer on, not Dobbs.

Rightly or wrongly, Dobbs found himself on the field in Oakland last year, was charged with winning the game, and promptly puked all over his shoes. Now we've seen Mason win a game and play better than we've ever seen Dobbs play in other games this year. I have no idea at this point why anyone would prefer Dobbs to Mason.

I like Hodges too, because in the preseason he showed ACCURACY.

I automatically dismiss anyone who brings up the rocket scientist as a viable QB. Dobbs makes Kordell look like Joe Montana.

[Jobu]

So now Fitchner is saying he really doesn't like the QB sneak, and if your OL and RB can't get the first then you don't deserve it. He's not opposed to it, just not in obvious situations


That's the 2nd OC with that philosophy, which I think puts such dumbfuckery solely on the shoulders of one Mike Tomlin.

If Fich says he doesn't like qb sneaks, then Fich is the one who doesn't like qb sneaks. Unless you're saying Tomlin should order Fich to call them. We don't know what Tomlin's stance on qb sneaks is.

Tomlin is the head coach. If he wanted the QB to run a sneak, then they would be running them. Stupid is as stupid does...

[El Kabong]

So now Fitchner is saying he really doesn't like the QB sneak, and if your OL and RB can't get the first then you don't deserve it. He's not opposed to it, just not in obvious situations


That's the 2nd OC with that philosophy, which I think puts such dumbfuckery solely on the shoulders of one Mike Tomlin.

If Fich says he doesn't like qb sneaks, then Fich is the one who doesn't like qb sneaks. Unless you're saying Tomlin should order Fich to call them. We don't know what Tomlin's stance on qb sneaks is.

Tomlin is the head coach. If he wanted the QB to run a sneak, then they would be running them. Stupid is as stupid does...

My guess is Tomlin doesn't feel as strongly about the Steelers needing to run qb sneaks as posters here do and is content to let his OC call what he is comfortable with.

[Jobu]

If Fich says he doesn't like qb sneaks, then Fich is the one who doesn't like qb sneaks. Unless you're saying Tomlin should order Fich to call them. We don't know what Tomlin's stance on qb sneaks is.

Tomlin is the head coach. If he wanted the QB to run a sneak, then they would be running them. Stupid is as stupid does...

My guess is Tomlin doesn't feel as strongly about the Steelers needing to run qb sneaks as posters here do and is content to let his OC call what he is comfortable with.

So you don’t think that when his team is regularly failing in 3rd and 4th down short yardage situations that the head coach needs to step in and tell his OC to try something that might have a good chance of working?

[Kodiak]

My guess is Tomlin doesn't feel as strongly about the Steelers needing to run qb sneaks as posters here do and is content to let his OC call what he is comfortable with.

No, one OC believing that bullshit is somewhat remotely credible....when TWO OC's advocate the same thing then that's clearly a directive from the HC. And we all know Tomlin has the brains to fit the bill.

You know, because his gut tells him his OL and RB should be able to get that first down if they just execute.

[Havoc]

Article from Depot

Unlike Rudolph, Roethlisberger Threw Down-Field Regularly In First Few Career Starts

additionally, part of that narrative seems to be that Roethlisberger was also babied too much by former head coach Bill Cowher and offensive coordinator Ken Whisenhunt during his 2004 rookie season. in short, that part of the narrative is mostly centered around Roethlisberger allegedly being forced to play a lot of small ball early during his rookie season much like Rudolph has through his first 10 quarters of play in the NFL. That part of the narrative is false.

https://steelersdepot.com/2019/10/unlik ... er-starts/

[COR-TEN]

Article from Depot

Unlike Rudolph, Roethlisberger Threw Down-Field Regularly In First Few Career Starts

additionally, part of that narrative seems to be that Roethlisberger was also babied too much by former head coach Bill Cowher and offensive coordinator Ken Whisenhunt during his 2004 rookie season. in short, that part of the narrative is mostly centered around Roethlisberger allegedly being forced to play a lot of small ball early during his rookie season much like Rudolph has through his first 10 quarters of play in the NFL. That part of the narrative is false.

https://steelersdepot.com/2019/10/unlik ... er-starts/

Steelers went 15-1 that year behind a monster defense. Being 0-3 alters game plans, yes? With a defense that's just getting to know one another.

I'm going out on a limb and say we're going to see plenty down field passing. Make the ravens think he's going to game manage and play small ball.

[bradshaw2ben]

That monster defense was 6-11 in the 17 games before Ben became the starter.

[Mick]

Not sure anyone ever said Ben wasn’t allowed to go downfield as a rookie. The claim was that he didn’t attempt many passes, which was true, but to a large degree that was because we were always winning. He may very well have led the league in that ‘air yards per attempt’ stat that Rudolph is at the low end of. They are extremely different players.

[R_S]

So now Fitchner is saying he really doesn't like the QB sneak, and if your OL and RB can't get the first then you don't deserve it. He's not opposed to it, just not in obvious situations


That's the 2nd OC with that philosophy, which I think puts such dumbfuckery solely on the shoulders of one Mike Tomlin.

I think you’d be surprised at how many football coaches don’t like the QB sneak.

And all those motherfuckers have never won super bowls like BB. So yeah. When he sneaks the ball with the 41 year old GOAT at QB on 4th and a foot, copycat that. Not rocket science. Dont be dumb and say " if we cant execute and get a yard with our RB. We dont deserve to win." Dumb bastards. If you pass on the play that has a 96% success rate you dont deserve to coach!!!!

[PennyBacker]

Mason had a real strong effort against Cincinnati. He's not the only young player cutting his teeth at the professional level though. His receivers are in similar situations to some extent. Even JJSS. Yes, it is Smith-Schuster's 3rd season, but he is now expected to play the role of a No. 1. That carries a different responsibility than being a playmaking #2 or 3rd option.

Johnson is a young receiver as well, a rookie. Although the Steelers track record selecting receivers is phenomenal from where I sit, this may be the steepest challenge for a young guy to assimilate into since Plex. At least, with expectations that he be able to make a difference quickly.

Hope is that while those two guys do what it is they can be expected to do, which is perform based upon team / personal track record, that Rudolph's rapport with Washington will begin to surface as well. Then things come together when the time is right and Pittsburgh continues to mystify the rest of the NFL with its ability to produce pass catchers.

Moncrief may be in the dog house now, if you will, but he is also a young guy who is a shining example (be that good or bad) for the other young guys. If he keeps his wits about him then perhaps he eventually finds success too. Under that construction, the guys younger than him, and who will have played larger roles than him, will have a quality example of how ups and downs in the business can be expected in the first several years of one's career. ... and he may get cut and banished too. So..fingers crossed he catches some clutch TDs like Cotch did once upon a time.

At any rate, Mason is growing up some with receivers who are growing up too. His performance on the Monday night stage was exceptional in that regard.

[El Kabong]

My guess is Tomlin doesn't feel as strongly about the Steelers needing to run qb sneaks as posters here do and is content to let his OC call what he is comfortable with.

No, one OC believing that bullshit is somewhat remotely credible....when TWO OC's advocate the same thing then that's clearly a directive from the HC. And we all know Tomlin has the brains to fit the bill.

You know, because his gut tells him his OL and RB should be able to get that first down if they just execute.

You're saying when Fich comes out and says that HE doesn't like qb sneaks, he's lying?

[beerbrother]

Mason played significantly better this year than the preseason as a rookie. Wish he had another year on the bench to learn and another offseason for strength & conditioning.

Kind of expect him to improve the more he plays.

I didn't notice it so much watching the game but a few clips of highlights could see Washington open in the background. Rudolph was going through his progression from left to right and never got to him.

Don't have the all-22 or a recording of the game to re-watch but was curious if this was his typical read. He seemed to look left first then dump off to Conner or Samuels.

Maybe what impresses me most from the small sample size (including preseason), is that he doesn't fear the pass rush, keeps looking downfield.

Hopefully the coaches continue into this week with another effective game plan. The running backs coach was probably heavily involved last week. The execution of the wildcat made it seem like it was routine.