AB continues the craziness

[SteelerDayTrader]

Also, regarding mics. The early “ribbon” mics were analog butter. They were very good at capturing a very good performance. They were great for vocals (both sung and spoken). But they were not very controllable (like, if you want more volume, get closer to the mic…if you want still more, sing louder). And they were expensive and fragile.

What makes early recordings sound crappy is not the mic. What makes them sound crappy is what the mic is plugged into. What the disks are mastered on. And what they were played on.

Some of the best recordings I’ve ever heard (technically) were direct-to-disk recordings from the 1970s, using vintage analog ribbon mics. They’re hard to do, because you only have one take. But if the performance is right, the recording is beautiful.

Also, just to stay on topic, AB was a really good wide receiver. Maybe he still is. But as a performing artist, dude should drop the mic now, before he hurts somebody.

^^^^^ This !!!!

[SteelerDayTrader]

Ribbon mics are great for recording tweed era amps as well. Especially octal tweeds.

Ribbon mics were NEVER cheap or "shitty"

In fact cheap recording gear only began to be reality in the 1980s - 90s

[bradshaw2ben]

https://reverb.com/p/vintage-neumann-an ... icrophones

U47 was the tool of choice postwar through the Beatles...they've gone up in price since my last experience with them 20 years ago.

so trading a used Caddy for a good mic might be a good deal:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nrKmNkDcDuk

Mic and recording technology advanced tremendously in the thirties through the war. Listen to the sound quality of an early talkie from about 1930 to the sound quality of Gone with the Wind 1939 In audio, crooning rather than belting was possible because of more intimate sound. Listen to Satch's early Hot Fives recording vs. the duets he did with Ella.

Still waiting for that clean BL Jefferson recording.

Friend of mine did a choir recording in a former East Germany town's recording studio about 15 years ago. They were supposed to pay him cash (around $1000) for the work he did, but at the end of the week, they realized they couldn't come up with the money. He was not happy. They said, "wait-- we have an idea." Someone went to a storage room in the back and came back with two U47s that had been in storage since about 1950. They asked him if he'd accept these in lieu of the cash. He says he said, "Well, I guess it's okay."

[bradshaw2ben]

Sinatra, an all time great was famous for being offbeat in a musical way, e.g. “New York, New York”

SInatra was never off beat. He was intentionally “behind the beat.” Dude was born with a click track in his head. He was also intentionally “below the pitch” sometimes. There’s a HUGE difference between what Sinatra did (please don’t try this at home) and what someone with no ears does (off pitch) or someone with no sense of rhythm does (no idea where the beat is).

Frank's drummer is still kicking, still playing gigs in Burbank. I chat with him sometimes. Great guy and amazing stories. The best one I can tell is:

He played the 1st ever Frank Sinatra gig in Vegas. He said they pulled into town and there was a marquee that said "1st time in Vegas America's #1 blah blah blah Frank Sinatra". The next time they came to Vegas, the Marquee said only, "FRANK SINATRA". The third time they came, the entire marquee just said, "FRANK"

Ribbon mics are persnickety-- they're figure 8 pattern, which makes perspective difficult sometimes, and the old ones would break if you dropped them or if they were too close to something too loud. That's why Royers were a big hit: they could be used in front of a drum kit or Soldano amp on 11 and were pretty heavy-duty.

Also, the best recording of all-time that I know of is the one-microphone, small studio, monophonic recording of Hound Dog by Elvis Presley, which is stunningly pristine and lively for one mic and a whole band.

[K_C_]

I'm aware that the green bullet was a harmonica mic. It was the mic of choice for harmonica players because it produced a "dirty" sound - exemplifying Chicago style blues. Loud and distorted. Little Walter and others like the sonny boy williamson's and Junior wells (who I had the pleasure of getting drunk with) used it.

But something that needs to be noted are the limitations of recording technology of the time. Sound was being recorded with a narrower dynamic range and/or frequency response, not to mention vinyl engraving. Mics weren't the weakest link in the chain.

Glad you didn't get drunk with Little Walter.

He probably would have cut you. That fucker was insane.

[Quixotic]

Sinatra, an all time great was famous for being offbeat in a musical way, e.g. “New York, New York”

SInatra was never off beat. He was intentionally “behind the beat.” Dude was born with a click track in his head. He was also intentionally “below the pitch” sometimes. There’s a HUGE difference between what Sinatra did (please don’t try this at home) and what someone with no ears does (off pitch) or someone with no sense of rhythm does (no idea where the beat is).

Frank's drummer is still kicking, still playing gigs in Burbank. I chat with him sometimes. Great guy and amazing stories. The best one I can tell is:

He played the 1st ever Frank Sinatra gig in Vegas. He said they pulled into town and there was a marquee that said "1st time in Vegas America's #1 blah blah blah Frank Sinatra". The next time they came to Vegas, the Marquee said only, "FRANK SINATRA". The third time they came, the entire marquee just said, "FRANK"

Ribbon mics are persnickety-- they're figure 8 pattern, which makes perspective difficult sometimes, and the old ones would break if you dropped them or if they were too close to something too loud. That's why Royers were a big hit: they could be used in front of a drum kit or Soldano amp on 11 and were pretty heavy-duty.

Also, the best recording of all-time that I know of is the one-microphone, small studio, monophonic recording of Hound Dog by Elvis Presley, which is stunningly pristine and lively for one mic and a whole band.

Elvis was one of the few singers who really could nail it in one take. Because of his movies and the ridiculous costumes from later in his career (and the fact that he was the size of an elephant), people dismiss him. But he was a song stylist and studio craftsman with very few peers. Probably Frank. Maybe Michael Jackson.

Also, his “Santa Claus is Back in Town” is one of my favorite Christmas songs. “Ain’t got no sleigh with reindeer, no bag on my back, but you’re gonna see me comin’ in a big black Cadillac,” “Hang up your stalkings, turn out the lights, cause Santa Claus is comin’ down you’re chimney tonight.” Cracks me up every time.

Also, wonder who’s gonna pay AB a suitcase full of money to wreck their locker room next year.

[bradshaw2ben]

Green bullet and the like are capable of great non-distorted recordings, but only of less dynamic sounds-- singing at a distance, talking, room tone. They crap out when there's high amplitude, thus the harmonica fit.

[COR-TEN]

Not backpedaling. 20s mics were Ok. Listen to Rudy Vallee. By 1947 they were great. That green bullet is not a vocal mic BTW it's mostly a harmonica mic.

Jazz recordings from the 20s and 30s sound like utter shit compared to those from the 50s and especially the 60s. The upright in 20s and 30s recordings sounds like someone is plucking rubber bands.

I dunno. Louis Armstrong Hot House Five/ Seven sessions and Bix Spiderbeck recordings have their charm, although neither of those bands had an upright. String instruments like the guitar and bass didn't really come to be "important" as tonal instruments until amplification. Before they were more percussive.

Glad you didn't get drunk with Little Walter.

He probably would have cut you. That fucker was insane.

True. Junior was happy to drink with a couple of very young white dudes that wished they were his contemporaries - who also paid for his drinks.

[Professor Half Wit]

Not backpedaling. 20s mics were Ok. Listen to Rudy Vallee. By 1947 they were great. That green bullet is not a vocal mic BTW it's mostly a harmonica mic.

Jazz recordings from the 20s and 30s sound like utter shit compared to those from the 50s and especially the 60s. The upright in 20s and 30s recordings sounds like someone is plucking rubber bands.

I dunno. Louis Armstrong Hot House Five/ Seven sessions and Bix Spiderbeck recordings have their charm, although neither of those bands had an upright. String instruments like the guitar and bass didn't really come to be "important" as tonal instruments until amplification. Before they were more percussive.

Forgive me if I'm woefully ignorant, but my impression is that the big bands of 20s and 30s all featured bass players walking their asses off...and sounding like shit compared to the 60s. Count Basie sure as shit had bassists laying down more than percussive sounds. But maybe I misunderstand you.

[COR-TEN]

Jazz recordings from the 20s and 30s sound like utter shit compared to those from the 50s and especially the 60s. The upright in 20s and 30s recordings sounds like someone is plucking rubber bands.

I dunno. Louis Armstrong Hot House Five/ Seven sessions and Bix Spiderbeck recordings have their charm, although neither of those bands had an upright. String instruments like the guitar and bass didn't really come to be "important" as tonal instruments until amplification. Before they were more percussive.

Forgive me if I'm woefully ignorant, but my impression is that the big bands of 20s and 30s all featured bass players walking their asses off...and sounding like shit compared to the 60s. Count Basie sure as shit had bassists laying down more than percussive sounds. But maybe I misunderstand you.

Yes. Absolutely. But in a live performance, the upright got completely lost as a tonal instrument. So did guitar. That's what made Charlie Christian so revolutionary. He turned the guitar into a solo instrument (after amplification), whereas before it was chords, chords chords. The juke joints where John lee hooker played had no amplification. Therefore the picking or strumming style - loud - which differentiates from lightnin' hopkins, who didn't really play for dancing (two different styles from different locations). Shallow guitars (loud) vs big ones(rounder tone) like a martin dreadnought. And. . . recording devices were limited in their frequency response.

[Dan Smith--BYU]

I'm convinced now that this thread is Dan Akyroyd using six different aliases talking to himself. No mention yet of UFOs.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DmDjBONCXEo

No mic or recording equipment in the world could put silk stockings on that pig of a rap track that AB created.

[955876]

One has to wonder what Lemmy would have thought of this chat...

[Dan Smith--BYU]

Is Antonio Brown the male version of Meghan Markle? I mean, having it made like few in history and blowing it and pissing everyone off for no good reason?

[StillMadAtSlobber]

Holy crap there is a lot of old school mic talk in here.

Not a field I know, but I am reveling in my vinyl, picked up a hybrid tube phono stage and will soon swap out my modern Yamaha AV receiver for a vintage Pioneer 1050.

[Professor Half Wit]

Holy crap there is a lot of old school mic talk in here.

Not a field I know, but I am reveling in my vinyl, picked up a hybrid tube phono stage and will soon swap out my modern Yamaha AV receiver for a vintage Pioneer 1050.

Do nothing until you thoroughly consider:

http://www.rogueaudio.com/Products_Cronus_Magnum.htm

[SteelerDayTrader]

Holy crap there is a lot of old school mic talk in here.

Not a field I know, but I am reveling in my vinyl, picked up a hybrid tube phono stage and will soon swap out my modern Yamaha AV receiver for a vintage Pioneer 1050.

Do nothing until you thoroughly consider:

http://www.rogueaudio.com/Products_Cronus_Magnum.htm

$3000 ???? No thanks......lol

[Professor Half Wit]

Holy crap there is a lot of old school mic talk in here.

Not a field I know, but I am reveling in my vinyl, picked up a hybrid tube phono stage and will soon swap out my modern Yamaha AV receiver for a vintage Pioneer 1050.

Do nothing until you thoroughly consider:

http://www.rogueaudio.com/Products_Cronus_Magnum.htm

$3000 ???? No thanks......lol

Dude, 3K does not even begin to touch what Hi Fi gear costs. That's an entry level piece.

Making matters worse, there is no point in buying it if you do not have the turntable and speakers to match it.

I would have thought from all your bloviating in this thread that you of all people would understand that your audio set up is only as good as its weakest link.

[Dan Smith--BYU]

Neal Peart has passed at 67 from brain cancer and not a bizarre gardening accident. I was never a Rush fan but totally respected the skill level.

[the-other-burg]

Do nothing until you thoroughly consider:

http://www.rogueaudio.com/Products_Cronus_Magnum.htm

$3000 ???? No thanks......lol

Dude, 3K does not even begin to touch what Hi Fi gear costs. That's an entry level piece.

Making matters worse, there is no point in buying it if you do not have the turntable and speakers to match it.

I would have thought from all your bloviating in this thread that you of all people would understand that your audio set up is only as good as its weakest link.

Simple rule of thumb -spend at least as much on the speakers as all the electronic components combined.

[StillMadAtSlobber]

Holy crap there is a lot of old school mic talk in here.

Not a field I know, but I am reveling in my vinyl, picked up a hybrid tube phono stage and will soon swap out my modern Yamaha AV receiver for a vintage Pioneer 1050.

Do nothing until you thoroughly consider:

http://www.rogueaudio.com/Products_Cronus_Magnum.htm

That is way above what I want to spend, and a lot of tubes, I would rather just experiment with one. And too much shit I need to fix with the house.

I started rediscovering my vinyl about a year ago after a vinyl party. I got a vintage Yamaha P-550 up and running with a Shure type IV tip. I discovered there was such a thing as record cleaners, and bought a spin clean, making my own fluid from distilled water, iso-propyl, ethanol, rewetting agent and detergent.

I made the mistake of spending lots of time on the stevehoffman forums. I ended up upgrading to a used Rega RP-6 with a some upgrades and it came with an Audio Fidelity X-LPS SS phone stage. I had to replace the Exact cart a couple months ago.

Speakers are modest, Cambridge Soundworks Newton MS-500s and a Klipsch KSW-200.

So after realizing that the vintage Pioneer 1050 upstairs is much better for audio than my Yamaha AVR (TSR-7850) I will put it in service this weekend. I will see how it goes, I don't know if it needs to be recapped.

So the Vincent PHO-701 gives me the ability to roll tubes, modestly or as modest as I want to get buying NOS 12AU7s. I have already placed an order for these:

12AU7 RARE Brimar made longplate, BLACKPLATE, SQUARE GETTER, Old RED Logo. Fine 1950s vintage tube.
12AU7 Amperex orange world logo, Holland
12AU7 RCA blackplate, Old Logo, or made for organ brands. Fine 1950s vintage tube.
12AU7 RCA Cleartop (side getter),
12AU7 / ECC82 Lumley Reference(RFT) 3 mica, made in Germany

This will let me check out the differences between 3-4 major sounds (German/Benelux/UK/US). Its been amazing seeing what the X-LPS did for the records, and I am enjoying slowing tweaking things.

By far at this point, the weakest link is the speakers. However, due to the setup and room limitations, I will never have the ideal layout for a great soundstage. So far every upgrade has been noticeable through my speakers.

Last order from Vinyl Me Please was Aretha Franklin (I never loved a man...), I also grabbed Al Green Call Me and Stones Let it Bleed. If I need to swap from the monthly Essentials again, I will probably grab Sister Rosetta Tharpe if its still available. I swapped for Nils Framme Spaces this month. Otherwise I am a massive prog head.

The VMP releases have been Incredibly quiet vinyl, great stuff.

[El Kabong]

I have a $20 mp3 player I bought at Best Buy in 2007, a $15 pair of sports headphones, and a $15 set of speakers. Rock on.

[Jobu]

I have a $20 mp3 player I bought at Best Buy in 2007, a $15 pair of sports headphones, and a $15 set of speakers. Rock on.

Rock on gyst...right up my alley.

Neal Peart has passed at 67 from brain cancer and not a bizarre gardening accident. I was never a Rush fan but totally respected the skill level.

Loved...absolutely loved Rush!

[SteelerDayTrader]

Do nothing until you thoroughly consider:

http://www.rogueaudio.com/Products_Cronus_Magnum.htm

$3000 ???? No thanks......lol

Dude, 3K does not even begin to touch what Hi Fi gear costs. That's an entry level piece.

Making matters worse, there is no point in buying it if you do not have the turntable and speakers to match it.

I would have thought from all your bloviating in this thread that you of all people would understand that your audio set up is only as good as its weakest link.

Lol.....most audiophile junk is aimed at people who dont really have discerning ears and/or lack good sense....lol

I can tell you with certainty that cronus magnum whatever it is ...is about $200 worth of parts......there are no magic tricks with tube amps other than good lead dress and design.....the huge majority of which was conquered decades ago.......

rogue audio is a PERFECT name.....lol

[Professor Half Wit]

$3000 ???? No thanks......lol

Dude, 3K does not even begin to touch what Hi Fi gear costs. That's an entry level piece.

Making matters worse, there is no point in buying it if you do not have the turntable and speakers to match it.

I would have thought from all your bloviating in this thread that you of all people would understand that your audio set up is only as good as its weakest link.

Lol.....most audiophile junk is aimed at people who dont really have discerning ears and/or lack good sense....lol

I can tell you with certainty that cronus magnum whatever it is ...is about $200 worth of parts......there are no magic tricks with tube amps other than good lead dress and design.....the huge majority of which was conquered decades ago.......

rogue audio is a PERFECT name.....lol

At a certain point, it's dumb to spend major money: the law of diminishing returns. But I can tell you, Rogue Audio's equipment is not a scam. And if you think just any kind of tube set up can handle just any kind of music, well, you've exposed yourself as ignorant about the topic. Everyone, EVERYONE who knows anything about it knows that tubes are excellent for delivering warm sound and full, detailed midrange tones. Everyone, EVERYONE who knows anything about it knows that tubes traditionally are miserable at delivering full, detailed and robust low end tones. Tubes are lousy for bass, especially when it comes to electronic music made on computers. It is has traditionally been a big problem for tubes to deliver massive bass while also supplying that warm midrange experience. What the Magnum does is allow me to luxuriate in Brian Eno's Ambient Land On 4, using tubes to deliver a massive amount of bass through my subwoofer. And I also get to hear Bill Evans the way he was meant to be heard. Worth every penny.

I get that not everyone is going to want to spend that kind of coin. But you are very wrong if you think that amp isn't solving a problem or worth the money. This is an integrated tube amp that can power a hefty subwoofer. This isn't some BS hi fi from the 70s, Skippy.

Also: Rogue Audio is based in Pennsylvania, USA, and all its products are built ON SITE, not sub-contracted to some Chinese factory. Quality, quality, quality.

[Dan Smith--BYU]

Audiophile vs. videophile is a funny thing and it has to do with what we are used to. Everyone is a videophile now because we are used to HDTV and better for all screens. Non-HDTV looks primitive right away. Or football highlights from the 90s. For audio, we are used to mp3s and cheap earbuds, not listening in a quiet room or on good headphones and its become a lost pursuit. Almost no one notices. But if you download HD tracks samples and listen on good phones, you realize what we've been conditioned out of.

[Quixotic]

Audiophile vs. videophile is a funny thing and it has to do with what we are used to. Everyone is a videophile now because we are used to HDTV and better for all screens. Non-HDTV looks primitive right away. Or football highlights from the 90s. For audio, we are used to mp3s and cheap earbuds, not listening in a quiet room or on good headphones and its become a lost pursuit. Almost no one notices. But if you download HD tracks samples and listen on good phones, you realize what we've been conditioned out of.

I have some friends in the studio business who chose to go out of business in large part because of the ubiquitous use of mp3s. It became pointless to make maters to high standards, when the distribution was going to be almost all mp3 (including for broadcast).

And it’s not just a Luddite thing. The same guys came to love digital recording and mixing, just because it was so much more efficient. The two-inch, 24-track, analog equipment (affectionately known as the washing machine) required continuous adjustment and maintenance, that added up to hours-and-hours-and-hours per year. And a lot of the “analog warmth” was actually bleed-through (signal coming bleeding over from another track, that gave the impression of ambient warmth). But using high-end analog mics and preamps, going into a Neve console, and capturing in digital files for editing and mixing, they were able to get a product that reflected the best of both worlds. THEN, to have to dumb down the final output for mp3…it was more than they could stand. And they quit and went into the restaurant and event business (turns out, people love to hang out and drink coffee in decommissioned ware-house/audio studios).

[Dan Smith--BYU]

HD tracks has a high sample rate free download of St. Thomas by Sonny Rollins. Listen to it with headphones, then listen to the mp3 or even the wav file. The difference is ridiculous particularly the clarity and sound of the drumming of Max Roach.

[Lynch]

I grew up listening to music on an old Marantz amp and turntable through AR11 speakers. Mp3s, digital amps, etc really do leave so much out, and sound almost artificial. I'm not sure anyone much younger than me would notice the difference, though I do hear things that most people don't.

[955876]

Most all of my music listening is done in the car. Ride came with a decent system.

If only it would sound as good when I stream from phone rather than just listening to satellite radio.

If anyone knows how to solve that dilemma I’d be real happy.

Lose the bass when streaming.

[Dan Smith--BYU]

The thing is that volume compression probably does help the music push through ambient noise. But in a quiet room or headphones, it's horrible.

Always avoid remasters for that reason. Bob Dylan to his credit has been complaining about volume compression for decades.

To clarify, there's data compression, which removes subtle sounds and information from the recording to make the file smaller, and volume compression which eliminates softer sounds and squeezes all sounds closer to the max volume.

Listen to an unremastered CD of Sade in the mideighties vs 1990 or so and the difference is kind of shocking.