Fichtner, Sarrett and Bradley let go

[Steelperch]

Let’s hope Teryl Austin and Omar Khan hired away. We could use 4 extra 3rd round picks

Teryl Austin getting hired as a DC gets us 2 3rds as well?

I believe it is any advancement made by a minority coach. Maybe it’s just if they get a HC gig, not sure

[tbsteel]

Let’s hope Teryl Austin and Omar Khan hired away. We could use 4 extra 3rd round picks

Teryl Austin getting hired as a DC gets us 2 3rds as well?

I believe it is any advancement made by a minority coach. Maybe it’s just if they get a HC gig, not sure

It's only for minorities hired as either a head coach or a GM. It doesn't apply for assistants becoming an OC or DC.

[Steelperch]

Teryl Austin getting hired as a DC gets us 2 3rds as well?

I believe it is any advancement made by a minority coach. Maybe it’s just if they get a HC gig, not sure

It's only for minorities hired as either a head coach or a GM. It doesn't apply for assistants becoming an OC or DC.

NFL must be racists if they won’t give us a pick for losing an assistant. If we pout loud enough I’m sure we can get our way.

[Scunge]

I am not going to diss James Daniel in any way. Dude had proven, great TEs that he coached up at every place whether it was Denver (Sharpe), Atlanta (Alge Crumpler) and Pittsburgh (Heath Miller), Pro Bowlers all. And he coached up other respectable TEs like Howard Cross (Giants), Matt Spaeth and Jesse James.

Matt Canada and Teryl Austin are two of the bright spots on this team in terms of coaching potential and talent, it would be a shame to lose them both and I feel the Steelers are probably going to promote them

Austin has 5 years of experience as a DC. If you look at his time as a DB coach going through the years of when he was in Seattle, to Arizona, Baltimore and his time as the DC for the Lions, there is an All Star, Pro Bowl laden Who's who of safeties and cornerbacks. Counting Minhak in Pittsburgh too, Austin has something like 7-8 players that he coached that made the Pro Bowl.

Canada? I know much was made of how he would have an impact this year (I was hoping that myself), but I wonder really now if it was hardly anything? If he was made the OC, isn't he being handcuffed if Ben is still the QB? Wouldn't any new OC be in the same position?

Imagine it, you are hired as the Steelers new OC and you have Ben still as your QB, a 39 year old Ben. One who can't move much anymore, one who doesn't want to take snaps under center. And let us be real honest here, the reason why the Steelers don't have him under center is because it is painfully laborious of him to take the snap, then turn and hand the ball to the RB. Ben really slows and dooms the run offense because his footwork and quickness is gone.

A new OC is going to be able to develop and revive the run game with Ben in there? I don't see it. You are stacking the difficulty for that new OC if Ben is still the QB. He is not going to be able to implement new changes, new schemes if he has to take into account a 39 year old QB with limited functionality and has to do workarounds. If the team still wanted to do that then there was no reason to get rid of Randy.

[SteelerDayTrader]

Canada? I know much was made of how he would have an impact this year (I was hoping that myself), but I wonder really now if it was hardly anything? If he was made the OC, isn't he being handcuffed if Ben is still the QB? Wouldn't any new OC be in the same position?

[blu]

I am not going to diss James Daniel in any way. Dude had proven, great TEs that he coached up at every place whether it was Denver (Sharpe), Atlanta (Alge Crumpler) and Pittsburgh (Heath Miller), Pro Bowlers all. And he coached up other respectable TEs like Howard Cross (Giants), Matt Spaeth and Jesse James.

Matt Canada and Teryl Austin are two of the bright spots on this team in terms of coaching potential and talent, it would be a shame to lose them both and I feel the Steelers are probably going to promote them

Austin has 5 years of experience as a DC. If you look at his time as a DB coach going through the years of when he was in Seattle, to Arizona, Baltimore and his time as the DC for the Lions, there is an All Star, Pro Bowl laden Who's who of safeties and cornerbacks. Counting Minhak in Pittsburgh too, Austin has something like 7-8 players that he coached that made the Pro Bowl.

Canada? I know much was made of how he would have an impact this year (I was hoping that myself), but I wonder really now if it was hardly anything? If he was made the OC, isn't he being handcuffed if Ben is still the QB? Wouldn't any new OC be in the same position?

Imagine it, you are hired as the Steelers new OC and you have Ben still as your QB, a 39 year old Ben. One who can't move much anymore, one who doesn't want to take snaps under center. And let us be real honest here, the reason why the Steelers don't have him under center is because it is painfully laborious of him to take the snap, then turn and hand the ball to the RB. Ben really slows and dooms the run offense because his footwork and quickness is gone.

A new OC is going to be able to develop and revive the run game with Ben in there? I don't see it. You are stacking the difficulty for that new OC if Ben is still the QB. He is not going to be able to implement new changes, new schemes if he has to take into account a 39 year old QB with limited functionality and has to do workarounds. If the team still wanted to do that then there was no reason to get rid of Randy.

Has Ben said anything yet in relation to firing Fitchner?

[stillthere]

Canada? I know much was made of how he would have an impact this year (I was hoping that myself), but I wonder really now if it was hardly anything? If he was made the OC, isn't he being handcuffed if Ben is still the QB? Wouldn't any new OC be in the same position?

We saw some of his influence early in the season for about the first 4 or 5 weeks they had the jet motions and appeared to be building off them and then all of a sudden we saw it like twice a game when they ran the pop pass jet sweep to Ray Ray and sometimes Claypool. His offense is a fun one to watch when it is being utilized and allowed to grow off itself.

I for the life of me don't know why we started to never use it down the stretch. The only thing that comes to mind is that Ben didn't like all the motion in the offense or some other aspect of it. If that is the case then hiring Canada may be a signal to Ben to hang it up. If it was Randyland that was opposed to using the new concepts then he got what he deserved by not getting a new contract and Tomlin should be fired for not forcing some of the changes that were working. We were getting rushing yards in the first month of the season then that just went away as did the looks Canada added to the scheme.

[Kodiak]

The real problem finding new coaches is anyone worth a damn has to see Tomlin is on the hotseat and will probably finally be fired (or let go) in a year or two. A new HC should be allowed to come in and hire his own people.


As for Ben "handcuffing the OC", that begins and ends with the HC. All the shit Ben isn't doing is because of Tomlin sucking risk (and, therefore, potential) out of the offense. Ben has always been a good soldier and will run what the OC says. And the shotgun and lack of PA has a lot to do with OL play, as well.

[Kodiak]

We saw some of his influence early in the season for about the first 4 or 5 weeks

And hardly any of it was working. In the best scenarios, Matt Canada's "influence" was creating 2nd and 3rd and long for the offense.

[Orangesteel]

I think a lot of the window dressing motion stuff went away because since Dallas Ben basically was running the offense from the huddle. You can’t effectively run all of that motion stuff if it isn’t based on an overall scheme. This offense went off a cliff; I mean a massive cliff. Earlier in the year we were more balanced and it looked cleaner; later in the year we were a hodge podge on that side of the ball.

The next OC needs to design something that resembles a legit pro style offense. And we need to work some miracles with the roster. I don’t know what to expect.

[Kodiak]

The next OC needs to design something that resembles a legit pro style offense. And we need to work some miracles with the roster. I don’t know what to expect.

Right. Again, look at the offense last year with Duck and Mason and the only real difference was they took more snaps under center. Aside, from the all the Matt Canada stuff this year that really did nothing for the first 5-6 games.

Maybe the new OC won't have to answer to Tomlin. That's the only way I can see it working to attract someone good.

[AirRescueFF]

I really don't know how some of these guys get canned and the RB coach isn't.

And vice versa in 2019.

[Jobu]

The next OC needs to design something that resembles a legit pro style offense. And we need to work some miracles with the roster. I don’t know what to expect.

Right. Again, look at the offense last year with Duck and Mason and the only real difference was they took more snaps under center. Aside, from the all the Matt Canada stuff this year that really did nothing for the first 5-6 games.

Maybe the new OC won't have to answer to Tomlin. That's the only way I can see it working to attract someone good.

New OC...same head coach. More of the same attrition bullshit. Nothing changes.

[Stosh-67]

Darryl Drake coached until he died.
Lebeau coached here until age 80
John Mitchell will be 70 next year.
James Daniels is retiring at 67.

The game has rapidly adopted a college style offense. We have coaches so far removed from the modern game, very little young talent on the staff. We have the lowest paid group of assistant coaches in the NFL. And a fake DC who has the head coach calling plays for him. Tomlin runs the defense and he left the offense up to shit assistants who had to be bailed out by Ben. Tomlin has to get the OC hire right.

And that is why this offense is so stale and predictable.
And you know what, if they were running a basic offense and were crisp, clean and methodical, then maybe it would work......but they can't even do that with all their sloppiness, not on the same page, out of sync, etc, etc.

[RemoAZ]

I am not going to diss James Daniel in any way. Dude had proven, great TEs that he coached up at every place whether it was Denver (Sharpe), Atlanta (Alge Crumpler) and Pittsburgh (Heath Miller), Pro Bowlers all. And he coached up other respectable TEs like Howard Cross (Giants), Matt Spaeth and Jesse James.

Matt Canada and Teryl Austin are two of the bright spots on this team in terms of coaching potential and talent, it would be a shame to lose them both and I feel the Steelers are probably going to promote them

Austin has 5 years of experience as a DC. If you look at his time as a DB coach going through the years of when he was in Seattle, to Arizona, Baltimore and his time as the DC for the Lions, there is an All Star, Pro Bowl laden Who's who of safeties and cornerbacks. Counting Minhak in Pittsburgh too, Austin has something like 7-8 players that he coached that made the Pro Bowl.

Canada? I know much was made of how he would have an impact this year (I was hoping that myself), but I wonder really now if it was hardly anything? If he was made the OC, isn't he being handcuffed if Ben is still the QB? Wouldn't any new OC be in the same position?

Imagine it, you are hired as the Steelers new OC and you have Ben still as your QB, a 39 year old Ben. One who can't move much anymore, one who doesn't want to take snaps under center. And let us be real honest here, the reason why the Steelers don't have him under center is because it is painfully laborious of him to take the snap, then turn and hand the ball to the RB. Ben really slows and dooms the run offense because his footwork and quickness is gone.

A new OC is going to be able to develop and revive the run game with Ben in there? I don't see it. You are stacking the difficulty for that new OC if Ben is still the QB. He is not going to be able to implement new changes, new schemes if he has to take into account a 39 year old QB with limited functionality and has to do workarounds. If the team still wanted to do that then there was no reason to get rid of Randy.

Has Ben said anything yet in relation to firing Fitchner?

With the whole "drawing plays in the dirt" and the other team calling out the plays causing him to go no huddle, if that doesn't make it obvious Fitchner was a problem then he really needs to retire.

[Scunge]

Some good points in this thread, but none more relevant than the question why would anyone WANT to come to Pittsburgh to coach under Tomlin?

I am firmly in the camp now that the Steelers need to move on from Tomlin. You look at Noll, you look at Cowher, they had a coaching tree, they had assistant coaches thrive, prosper and teams took notice and came and signed them away.

Position coaches became offensive and defensive coordinators, OC and DCs became Head Coaches. Where is the success of Tomlin's assistant coaches? Who has came up and been pursued and hired away??

If anything it would appear that Tomlin has fostered a coaching environment where assistant coaches are destined to fail. Again, where are the examples of a position coach moving up the ranks and becoming an OC, a DC, a Head Coach??

Rooney is going to have to really overpay at this point to convince people to come here to coach.

I will say this too, Rooney has to take some of the heat for this messed up situation. I keep saying this and people dismiss it but Tomlin in no way has the power that Noll and Cowher had in terms of hand picking their assistants. I believe that Rooney meddles too much in the hiring and firing process.

If Rooney did fire Tomlin what makes anybody believe that the new Head Coach would be an improvement? Would be allowed to assemble his own assistants? His own OC, own DC, etc?

Cowher was a DC for KC when we hired him as head coach. He had carte blanche to hand pick all of his own assistants with the exception of RB coach Dick Hoak. Hoak was a very close friend of the Rooney family and had a job for life.

Cowher put together an all star coaching staff for his defense. Dom Capers was coming from that great New Orleans defense, he was the DC. Dick LeBeau came from Cincy and was the godfather of the zone blitz defense, he coached the secondary, Marvin Lewis was brought on to coach the LBers.

When the Steelers moved on from Cowher, they also created a new shift in the hiring and firing of coaches and how much power and latitude they gave their head coach.

We are right now at a crossroads, and Rooney has to have a come to jesus moment. What you have been doing is not working, you need to go back to the future, hire a new head coach and allow him to assemble his own coaches and then stay the hell out of the way like your father was wise enough to do with Noll and Cowher. But you want to do things your own way, well how is that working out?

[Jobu]

Some good points in this thread, but none more relevant than the question why would anyone WANT to come to Pittsburgh to coach under Tomlin?

I am firmly in the camp now that the Steelers need to move on from Tomlin. You look at Noll, you look at Cowher, they had a coaching tree, they had assistant coaches thrive, prosper and teams took notice and came and signed them away.

Position coaches became offensive and defensive coordinators, OC and DCs became Head Coaches. Where is the success of Tomlin's assistant coaches? Who has came up and been pursued and hired away??

If anything it would appear that Tomlin has fostered a coaching environment where assistant coaches are destined to fail. Again, where are the examples of a position coach moving up the ranks and becoming an OC, a DC, a Head Coach??

Rooney is going to have to really overpay at this point to convince people to come here to coach.

I will say this too, Rooney has to take some of the heat for this messed up situation. I keep saying this and people dismiss it but Tomlin in no way has the power that Noll and Cowher had in terms of hand picking their assistants. I believe that Rooney meddles too much in the hiring and firing process.

If Rooney did fire Tomlin what makes anybody believe that the new Head Coach would be an improvement? Would be allowed to assemble his own assistants? His own OC, own DC, etc?

Cowher was a DC for KC when we hired him as head coach. He had carte blanche to hand pick all of his own assistants with the exception of RB coach Dick Hoak. Hoak was a very close friend of the Rooney family and had a job for life.

Cowher put together an all star coaching staff for his defense. Dom Capers was coming from that great New Orleans defense, he was the DC. Dick LeBeau came from Cincy and was the godfather of the zone blitz defense, he coached the secondary, Marvin Lewis was brought on to coach the LBers.

When the Steelers moved on from Cowher, they also created a new shift in the hiring and firing of coaches and how much power and latitude they gave their head coach.

We are right now at a crossroads, and Rooney has to have a come to jesus moment. What you have been doing is not working, you need to go back to the future, hire a new head coach and allow him to assemble his own coaches and then stay the hell out of the way like your father was wise enough to do with Noll and Cowher. But you want to do things your own way, well how is that working out?

Good post. Truth.

[Orangesteel]

It’s a great point; no great and up and coming OC or assistant coaches want to come to Pittsburgh and “develop” under Tomlin because he hasn’t been doing that. Where are his assistants going getting HC or big time coordinator jobs? It’s almost like he’s got some old Arkansas State guys on speed dial and coaches in the league know it.

Maybe Canada will be promoted and take that side of the ball in another direction. I’m just sick of Tomlin putting his greasy mitts on everything and running it into the ground, then we have to dismiss/change up coordinators every few years.

Tomlin is done. Period. How long does the ownership really put up with this? I generally detest sports media, but Steelers and Tomlin are legit the laughing stocks of the league right now. Nobody fears Tomlin in the post season...soooo...what are we doing here folks?

[shellwagnerblount]

Some good points in this thread, but none more relevant than the question why would anyone WANT to come to Pittsburgh to coach under Tomlin?

I am firmly in the camp now that the Steelers need to move on from Tomlin. You look at Noll, you look at Cowher, they had a coaching tree, they had assistant coaches thrive, prosper and teams took notice and came and signed them away.

Position coaches became offensive and defensive coordinators, OC and DCs became Head Coaches. Where is the success of Tomlin's assistant coaches? Who has came up and been pursued and hired away??

If anything it would appear that Tomlin has fostered a coaching environment where assistant coaches are destined to fail. Again, where are the examples of a position coach moving up the ranks and becoming an OC, a DC, a Head Coach??

Rooney is going to have to really overpay at this point to convince people to come here to coach.

I will say this too, Rooney has to take some of the heat for this messed up situation. I keep saying this and people dismiss it but Tomlin in no way has the power that Noll and Cowher had in terms of hand picking their assistants. I believe that Rooney meddles too much in the hiring and firing process.

If Rooney did fire Tomlin what makes anybody believe that the new Head Coach would be an improvement? Would be allowed to assemble his own assistants? His own OC, own DC, etc?

Cowher was a DC for KC when we hired him as head coach. He had carte blanche to hand pick all of his own assistants with the exception of RB coach Dick Hoak. Hoak was a very close friend of the Rooney family and had a job for life.

Cowher put together an all star coaching staff for his defense. Dom Capers was coming from that great New Orleans defense, he was the DC. Dick LeBeau came from Cincy and was the godfather of the zone blitz defense, he coached the secondary, Marvin Lewis was brought on to coach the LBers.

When the Steelers moved on from Cowher, they also created a new shift in the hiring and firing of coaches and how much power and latitude they gave their head coach.

We are right now at a crossroads, and Rooney has to have a come to jesus moment. What you have been doing is not working, you need to go back to the future, hire a new head coach and allow him to assemble his own coaches and then stay the hell out of the way like your father was wise enough to do with Noll and Cowher. But you want to do things your own way, well how is that working out?

Yes, I agree with all of that..I was looking for an article I thought I kept..but that was apparently a few hard drive failures ago..lol. But it was about Cowher and how he hired the best OC's he could find and made sure they knew that he would not stand in their way if they got a promotion or better offer with another team. I was like "you'll not be here as long as we'd like, but we want you anyway" This led to great scuttlebutt around the league and they got coaches who were highly motivated to come to P. and thrive. Heavy contrast with the Tomlin era. Most of "his guys" arent'highly thought of. Does anyone even talk about Fichtner or Butler other than Steeler fans? My nephew didn't know who they were...He only knows that "Butler ain't Lebeau, is he?" and "Doesn Randy F. call the plays or does Tomlin? I'm confused" lol..

[steelmann58]

How many changes to a staff before the part ways with the Head man. Tomlin shelf life must be getting close to expire.

[Orangesteel]

This organization needs to stop with the “Steeler Way” and stop with this nonsense that we are the big bad Steelers and that any coach, regardless if position or rank, should be over the moon to come and be part of this franchise.

People don’t think like that anymore. This is a way different league than it was 15 years ago, let alone 30 years ago.

[Kodiak]

Imagine someone calls up Munchak, or even Haley, for the inside scoop. You think either is going to say "Oh, yeah, Tomlin runs a tight ship over there...and you'll learn a lot from him"?

[stillthere]

How many changes to a staff before the part ways with the Head man. Tomlin shelf life must be getting close to expire.

His contract expires after next season. He doesn't have an extension yet. He is a lame duck currently.

I think this is Rooney saying put up or peace out. Would they go to a year to year contract like Butler and Colbert? That would be the opposite of everything that we have hired 3 coaches since 1969 stands for. That is not stability.

[steelmann58]

So Tomlin and Ben and Pouncey deal all end at the same time

[stillthere]

So Tomlin and Ben and Pouncey deal all end at the same time

Vince Williams And DeCastro too.

Haden?

[jebrick]

Darryl Drake coached until he died.
Lebeau coached here until age 80
John Mitchell will be 70 next year.
James Daniels is retiring at 67.

The game has rapidly adopted a college style offense. We have coaches so far removed from the modern game, very little young talent on the staff. We have the lowest paid group of assistant coaches in the NFL. And a fake DC who has the head coach calling plays for him. Tomlin runs the defense and he left the offense up to shit assistants who had to be bailed out by Ben. Tomlin has to get the OC hire right.

And that is why this offense is so stale and predictable.
And you know what, if they were running a basic offense and were crisp, clean and methodical, then maybe it would work......but they can't even do that with all their sloppiness, not on the same page, out of sync, etc, etc.

Position coaches teach technique. If the offense is stale then it is the OC and HC. I think a lot of it is Ben being the OC.

[bradshaw2ben]

I am firmly in the camp now that the Steelers need to move on from Tomlin. You look at Noll, you look at Cowher, they had a coaching tree, they had assistant coaches thrive, prosper and teams took notice and came and signed them away.

well, @scunge you might get your first wave of coaching tree other than BA. Austin & Canada both interviewing. If all of the Steelers assistants weren't 75 years old, they'd probably interview more.

Cowher, however, wow... what an array of future HCs.

[bradshaw2ben]

Darryl Drake coached until he died.
Lebeau coached here until age 80
John Mitchell will be 70 next year.
James Daniels is retiring at 67.

The game has rapidly adopted a college style offense. We have coaches so far removed from the modern game, very little young talent on the staff. We have the lowest paid group of assistant coaches in the NFL. And a fake DC who has the head coach calling plays for him. Tomlin runs the defense and he left the offense up to shit assistants who had to be bailed out by Ben. Tomlin has to get the OC hire right.

And that is why this offense is so stale and predictable.
And you know what, if they were running a basic offense and were crisp, clean and methodical, then maybe it would work......but they can't even do that with all their sloppiness, not on the same page, out of sync, etc, etc.

Position coaches teach technique. If the offense is stale then it is the OC and HC. I think a lot of it is Ben being the OC.

Tell me how Ben is calling FB dive 2x in a row let alone once on 3rd & 1.

[Stlcrtn1974]

How many changes to a staff before the part ways with the Head man. Tomlin shelf life must be getting close to expire.

His contract expires after next season. He doesn't have an extension yet. He is a lame duck currently.

I think this is Rooney saying put up or peace out. Would they go to a year to year contract like Butler and Colbert? That would be the opposite of everything that we have hired 3 coaches since 1969 stands for. That is not stability.

I was thinking the same thing about a lame duck coach. I was at first worried that no one worth anything would want to come for one year then be shown the door. But then I thought it could be a good opportunity to show Rooney what kind of coach you are and possibly be hired to replace Tomlin. While knows though, maybe Tomlin is where Cowher was in 06.

[franco32]

I want hires from outside the org. I want to keep Austin and Canada...but I want outsiders on top of them. We need fresh outside thinking. No outside change leads to stale recycled ideas.

Yes, Ben isn't mobile...but that doesn't mean you can't have variety in your play calls. It just takes creativity. Use more of the short shotgun for example. Get a RB with speed to the outside in the draft....and all of a sudden you can have PITCH plays and threaten the edge.

There is a lot more we can do so we aren't so predictable.