3 93 Darnell Washington TE

[SteelerDayTrader]

I would like to know why he fell to 8th TE taken. I could see him being the 4th or 5th TE taken but Luke Schoonmaker, Brenton Strange and Tucker Kraft where not lighting up the draft talk anywhere.

Missing a meniscus is what I heard here

Assume you didn’t know that when making him #4 overall

Nope…..but given how that board fell it’s 50/50 I woulda taken him anyway

The inside story is the commissioners office nixed numerous trades I had worked out I prior to Richardson being picked and that and Richardson going off the board forced me into plan B mode

I was gonna draft Richardson……trade up for Washington….. add an OL and DL later and call it a day

[jebrick]

I would like to know why he fell to 8th TE taken. I could see him being the 4th or 5th TE taken but Luke Schoonmaker, Brenton Strange and Tucker Kraft where not lighting up the draft talk anywhere.

Missing a meniscus is what I heard here

So the Steelers potentially got a great pick if his knees hold up. I can live with that in the late 3rd

[stillthere]

He played on crap Jaguars teams for most of his career, so I doubt team stats show up well.

My point though is that getting a player like that is fine at 92. At 17? No thanks

My point is would you take Gronk at 17? Yeah, I bet. How about halfway in between? I like the odds.

Could he be that good? Sure! But clearly NFL GM's don't think he will be.

Gronk had 16 TD catches in two college seasons. Washington had 3 TDs over 3 years. All I'm saying is let's pump the brakes a bit before we reserve a spot in Canton. The reality is that guys drafted purely on measureables tend to bust more often than not. As I said, I'll be rooting for him and I'd love to see him turn into Gronk 2.0 and make me eat crow.

I completely get what you are saying but the guy that starts at UGA ahead of Washington is going to be a top 20 pick barring injury next year. As everyone has seen for a few drafts now UGA is stacked with talent. Just more weapons all over the place at every level of the offense and defense. Gronk was probably the best or 2nd best player on his team in college. He got schemed plays, which is smart since he was good at football. I will take Mark Bavaro 2.0 where we drafted him. Bavaro punched tickets in the run game and made clutch catches when he was thrown the ball.

[stillthere]

Well, loss of limbs can definitely put a serious damper on a player's performance.

If all the needed parts stay intact, this guy could be a monster.

I'm not going to lie: I'm a little turned on by bully ball.

If we're going to insist on sticking to this primitive offense, let's at least make it painful for opposing teams' defenses and not just us fans watching it.

Copycat league shit again. Everyone wants to go speed and pass all over on O and the D has to get smaller and faster. Easiest way to beat that is to just out physical everyone. Imagine short yardage package with 6 OL plus Muuth, Washinton, Pickens and Harris in the backfield.

You can line up with 3 players spread out 1 RB and 6 OL
Motion Najee out and now you are 4 wide or trips with 6 OL still.
Have all the big boys up front cap the ends of the line with Muuth and Washington, Pickens iso'd outside you can pass or run.

Depending on what sub package the D brings in you flank it on O. Spread the bigs and bunch up the smalls.

[stillthere]

He played on crap Jaguars teams for most of his career, so I doubt team stats show up well.

My point though is that getting a player like that is fine at 92. At 17? No thanks

^^^^^^ Hater ^^^^^^^^

Part of me wants to call him Low-Wash and dig in my heals until he single handedly wins a Lombardi.

The other part of me realized that I'm not an expert and that continuing to bash a draft pick I didn't like after he wins an MVP award would make me look really stupid.

I believe the nickname Mt. Washington is being tossed about on the internet.

[stillthere]

I feel like game plan with DW is, ok Kenny if you’re ever in trouble just throw it at that dude

Not just throw it at him but throw it above the crossbar and let him elevate above the entire D and snatch the rock.

[Pabst]

I completely get what you are saying but the guy that starts at UGA ahead of Washington is going to be a top 20 pick barring injury next year. As everyone has seen for a few drafts now UGA is stacked with talent. Just more weapons all over the place at every level of the offense and defense. Gronk was probably the best or 2nd best player on his team in college. He got schemed plays, which is smart since he was good at football. I will take Mark Bavaro 2.0 where we drafted him. Bavaro punched tickets in the run game and made clutch catches when he was thrown the ball.

Just so I'm not pigeonholed into people thinking I'm anti-Washington, I just want to repeat that I don't hate the pick. I just didn't like the idea of drafting him too early.

Totally hear what you're saying, and I'll be over the moon if he comes close to what people are saying he can be.

[Professor Half Wit]

Just so I'm not pigeonholed into people thinking I'm anti-Washington, I just want to repeat that I don't hate the pick. I just didn't like the idea of drafting him too early.

Too late.

[COR-TEN]

Well, loss of limbs can definitely put a serious damper on a player's performance.

What? You can't catch a damn football with one leg missing?

Bah.

Pussies.

[rocky mtn stiller]

^^^^^^ Hater ^^^^^^^^

Part of me wants to call him Low-Wash and dig in my heals until he single handedly wins a Lombardi.

The other part of me realized that I'm not an expert and that continuing to bash a draft pick I didn't like after he wins an MVP award would make me look really stupid.

I believe the nickname Mt. Washington is being tossed about on the internet.

Will it be pronounced "Mt. Warshington"?

[stillthere]

Part of me wants to call him Low-Wash and dig in my heals until he single handedly wins a Lombardi.

The other part of me realized that I'm not an expert and that continuing to bash a draft pick I didn't like after he wins an MVP award would make me look really stupid.

I believe the nickname Mt. Washington is being tossed about on the internet.

Will it be pronounced "Mt. Warshington"?

sounds about right.

Hell they may just yell "HHHHEEEEAAAATTTTTHHHHH!!!!!!!" if he catches some passes and trucks a few defenders.

[Deebo]

I believe the nickname Mt. Washington is being tossed about on the internet.

Will it be pronounced "Mt. Warshington"?

sounds about right.

Hell they may just yell "HHHHEEEEAAAATTTTTHHHHH!!!!!!!" if he catches some passes and trucks a few defenders.

Maybe they won't do that since he's not white?

[Scunge]

This pick is awesome. I had to give some history lessons to some younger Steeler fans about former big TEs that we have had over the years.

This pick of Washington makes me think of that time in the early 90's, think Barry Foster running rampant, when we had two kingsized TEs. You had Adrian Cooper who was 6'5" 260-270, and then you had Eric Green who was 6'5" 290-300. I remember Coop being the more nasty of the two in terms of being a blocker and Green was this freak who was so smooth, played like a 185 pound WR as a pass catcher.

I see Washington as a combination of Cooper and Green. He has nastiness as a blocker, has great size and yet has some nimbleness and soft hands to make great catches.

Those 90's Steeler teams were great fun. Once upon a time we had players that were literally bigger, stronger than you, that were nastier than you. We had a 300 pound TE, we had a 300 pound RB, we had a 300 pound ILB (Green, Bettis, and Kirkland). Okay, okay, maybe 300 pounds is a bit hyperbolic, but they were all flirting with 300 pounds.

[RemoAZ]

This pick is awesome. I had to give some history lessons to some younger Steeler fans about former big TEs that we have had over the years.

This pick of Washington makes me think of that time in the early 90's, think Barry Foster running rampant, when we had two kingsized TEs. You had Adrian Cooper who was 6'5" 260-270, and then you had Eric Green who was 6'5" 290-300. I remember Coop being the more nasty of the two in terms of being a blocker and Green was this freak who was so smooth, played like a 185 pound WR as a pass catcher.

I see Washington as a combination of Cooper and Green. He has nastiness as a blocker, has great size and yet has some nimbleness and soft hands to make great catches.

Those 90's Steeler teams were great fun. Once upon a time we had players that were literally bigger, stronger than you, that were nastier than you. We had a 300 pound TE, we had a 300 pound RB, we had a 300 pound ILB (Green, Bettis, and Kirkland). Okay, okay, maybe 300 pounds is a bit hyperbolic, but they were all flirting with 300 pounds.

I remember watching the draft when they took Eric Green. I was like, who? From where? Then they showed film of him catching the ball and destroying guys trying to tackle him. It almost looked unfair. He was a monster out there. Probably the most physically impressive player I ever remember them picking. From their college film anyway.

[COR-TEN]

This pick is awesome. I had to give some history lessons to some younger Steeler fans about former big TEs that we have had over the years.

This pick of Washington makes me think of that time in the early 90's, think Barry Foster running rampant, when we had two kingsized TEs. You had Adrian Cooper who was 6'5" 260-270, and then you had Eric Green who was 6'5" 290-300. I remember Coop being the more nasty of the two in terms of being a blocker and Green was this freak who was so smooth, played like a 185 pound WR as a pass catcher.

I see Washington as a combination of Cooper and Green. He has nastiness as a blocker, has great size and yet has some nimbleness and soft hands to make great catches.

Those 90's Steeler teams were great fun. Once upon a time we had players that were literally bigger, stronger than you, that were nastier than you. We had a 300 pound TE, we had a 300 pound RB, we had a 300 pound ILB (Green, Bettis, and Kirkland). Okay, okay, maybe 300 pounds is a bit hyperbolic, but they were all flirting with 300 pounds.

I remember watching the draft when they took Eric Green. I was like, who? From where? Then they showed film of him catching the ball and destroying guys trying to tackle him. It almost looked unfair. He was a monster out there. Probably the most physically impressive player I ever remember them picking. From their college film anyway.

I remember Bennie Cunningham, who would take the entire defensive backfield for 10 yards before being brought down.

Instead, they targeted diminutive randy grossman. Who in his own right was a beast finding openings in the defense.

[meanjustinbarlow]

This pick is awesome. I had to give some history lessons to some younger Steeler fans about former big TEs that we have had over the years.

This pick of Washington makes me think of that time in the early 90's, think Barry Foster running rampant, when we had two kingsized TEs. You had Adrian Cooper who was 6'5" 260-270, and then you had Eric Green who was 6'5" 290-300. I remember Coop being the more nasty of the two in terms of being a blocker and Green was this freak who was so smooth, played like a 185 pound WR as a pass catcher.

I see Washington as a combination of Cooper and Green. He has nastiness as a blocker, has great size and yet has some nimbleness and soft hands to make great catches.

Those 90's Steeler teams were great fun. Once upon a time we had players that were literally bigger, stronger than you, that were nastier than you. We had a 300 pound TE, we had a 300 pound RB, we had a 300 pound ILB (Green, Bettis, and Kirkland). Okay, okay, maybe 300 pounds is a bit hyperbolic, but they were all flirting with 300 pounds.

Yeah Green and Bettis just missed each other. Can you imagine those two on the same offense??

Harris is going to run wild behind this 2TE set. This team is just under the Bills, Chiefs, Bengals in the AFC if healthy.

[bradshaw2ben]

I suspect the Steelers are going to use a 2 TE set more often but don't be surprised if they also use 1 TE with 88 on the sideline at times.

[DP39]

I suspect the Steelers are going to use a 2 TE set more often but don't be surprised if they also use 1 TE with 88 on the sideline at times.

No doubt. If D-Wash is healthy, I won't be surprised if we get close to 35% (or ~1570 snaps) 2 TE sets for the year -- close to a league high.

Muth should play about ~65% of the O snaps (1160 X ~.65 = 750). That leaves ~810 snaps for DW(470), ZG(190+100 ST snaps)) & CH(150, CH will also get ~70 FB/RB type snaps, on top of his 290 ST snaps). I think DW will also take over Derek Watt's major ST role (290 snaps) -- if he can be trusted to learn it.

So, Total O & ST snaps for all TE/FBs: (sans injuries)

Muth -- 750+25 = 775
DW -- 470+290 = 760
ZG -- 190+110 = 300
CH -- 220+290 = 510

[franco32]

No way he gets that many snaps unless he shows big improvement in his route running. Sure, he'll be a tremendous run blocker. But his routes in college look sloppy and slow. Nothing like his combine performance. He better get a lot more explosion off the line and run crisper routes or he will be a very limited pass catcher.

[stillthere]

No way he gets that many snaps unless he shows big improvement in his route running. Sure, he'll be a tremendous run blocker. But his routes in college look sloppy and slow. Nothing like his combine performance. He better get a lot more explosion off the line and run crisper routes or he will be a very limited pass catcher.

Obviously we have not seen shit other than college tape and underwear olympics tape but if he can run forward 5 yards and turn around and create a wall with his back, it is pretty much a play that cannot be defended without interfering with him. I said earlier in this thread and stick to the concept that anything he adds in the passing game is just a bonus. Stressing and forcing matchups and being able to be flexible with personnel is the real advantage he presents. D goes big spread em out, D goes small it is time to bunch em up and over power them.

[SteelerDayTrader]

No way he gets that many snaps unless he shows big improvement in his route running. Sure, he'll be a tremendous run blocker. But his routes in college look sloppy and slow. Nothing like his combine performance. He better get a lot more explosion off the line and run crisper routes or he will be a very limited pass catcher.

Obviously we have not seen shit other than college tape and underwear olympics tape but if he can run forward 5 yards and turn around and create a wall with his back, it is pretty much a play that cannot be defended without interfering with him. I said earlier in this thread and stick to the concept that anything he adds in the passing game is just a bonus. Stressing and forcing matchups and being able to be flexible with personnel is the real advantage he presents. D goes big spread em out, D goes small it is time to bunch em up and over power them.

[bradshaw2ben]

No way he gets that many snaps unless he shows big improvement in his route running. Sure, he'll be a tremendous run blocker. But his routes in college look sloppy and slow. Nothing like his combine performance. He better get a lot more explosion off the line and run crisper routes or he will be a very limited pass catcher.

Obviously we have not seen shit other than college tape and underwear olympics tape but if he can run forward 5 yards and turn around and create a wall with his back, it is pretty much a play that cannot be defended without interfering with him. I said earlier in this thread and stick to the concept that anything he adds in the passing game is just a bonus. Stressing and forcing matchups and being able to be flexible with personnel is the real advantage he presents. D goes big spread em out, D goes small it is time to bunch em up and over power them.

I think it's really easy to underestimate how quick/fast Washington is because of his size. I think he's more explosive out of his stance and straight up faster than Freiermuth. With a 4.08 SS, he's most definitely quicker than Freiermuth. At that size and speed, and with his blocking threat, his route running doesn't even have to be great. He'll likely be a better MOF weapon than Freiermuth from the get go.

[DP39]

No way he gets that many snaps unless he shows big improvement in his route running. Sure, he'll be a tremendous run blocker. But his routes in college look sloppy and slow. Nothing like his combine performance. He better get a lot more explosion off the line and run crisper routes or he will be a very limited pass catcher.

Obviously we have not seen shit other than college tape and underwear olympics tape but if he can run forward 5 yards and turn around and create a wall with his back, it is pretty much a play that cannot be defended without interfering with him. I said earlier in this thread and stick to the concept that anything he adds in the passing game is just a bonus. Stressing and forcing matchups and being able to be flexible with personnel is the real advantage he presents. D goes big spread em out, D goes small it is time to bunch em up and over power them.

I think it's really easy to underestimate how quick/fast Washington is because of his size. I think he's more explosive out of his stance and straight up faster than Freiermuth. With a 4.08 SS, he's most definitely quicker than Freiermuth. At that size and speed, and with his blocking threat, his route running doesn't even have to be great. He'll likely be a better MOF weapon than Freiermuth from the get go.

Yep.

Next season, we're very likely going to see ~450 snaps (26/game) from a 2 TE set. We will run out of ~75% of those. With DW far and away being your best blocking TE, he should see the field on ~80% of those 2 TE set snaps, or ~360 for the season (21/game). Of the ~470 O snaps I predict he'll see that leaves 110 other 1 TE/OL6 (or ~6/game) type snaps that he should/could get. My biggest ? is how many ST snaps he'll get ( I think a bunch, just not sure).

The other thing to consider with DW (all players actually) and his playing time is where the team had them ranked come draft time. They say they had Muth ranked close to a late 1st and got him in the 2nd. Obviously DW's knee had him pushed down everyone's board some. It's a safe bet they had at least a 2nd round grade on him (and, in a much deeper draft than any of our other TEs came out of). In their view, ZG wasn't more than a 4th or 5th rounder, and CH was a 5th or 6th round type guy, at best.

The Steelers have always given opportunities to higher ranked/drafted players. Hell, Muth played ~700 O snaps as a rookie. I feel pretty comfortable stating DW (as a 2nd round talent) will see ~470 O snaps -- especially with our greater commitment to running the ball (DW's greatest asset, out of ALL of our TEs). I can see DW running 7-10 routes per game while being targeted 3-4 of those routes with ~70% catch rate. As a receiver, I can definitely see him having a 45/500/3 rookie campaign.

[SteelerDayTrader]

I have zero idea about snap numbers

As far as DW goes I’m not really sure if I see him as a ST force but more so a guy who can force defenses to make decisions about what to defend and what not to defend

I hope the Steelers don’t force Muth into the great white hope role they seem to do with some players
and limit DW snaps because of it lol

I like Muth……I think he’d be an IDEAL 2nd fiddle to DW in the Steelers offense.

[SteelerDayTrader]

Most of all I see DW as a red zone weapon although I’d have on the field a large majority of the time all the time

[stillthere]

Obviously we have not seen shit other than college tape and underwear olympics tape but if he can run forward 5 yards and turn around and create a wall with his back, it is pretty much a play that cannot be defended without interfering with him. I said earlier in this thread and stick to the concept that anything he adds in the passing game is just a bonus. Stressing and forcing matchups and being able to be flexible with personnel is the real advantage he presents. D goes big spread em out, D goes small it is time to bunch em up and over power them.

I think it's really easy to underestimate how quick/fast Washington is because of his size. I think he's more explosive out of his stance and straight up faster than Freiermuth. With a 4.08 SS, he's most definitely quicker than Freiermuth. At that size and speed, and with his blocking threat, his route running doesn't even have to be great. He'll likely be a better MOF weapon than Freiermuth from the get go.

Yep.

Next season, we're very likely going to see ~450 snaps (26/game) from a 2 TE set. We will run out of ~75% of those. With DW far and away being your best blocking TE, he should see the field on ~80% of those 2 TE set snaps, or ~360 for the season (21/game). Of the ~470 O snaps I predict he'll see that leaves 110 other 1 TE/OL6 (or ~6/game) type snaps that he should/could get. My biggest ? is how many ST snaps he'll get ( I think a bunch, just not sure).

The other thing to consider with DW (all players actually) and his playing time is where the team had them ranked come draft time. They say they had Muth ranked close to a late 1st and got him in the 2nd. Obviously DW's knee had him pushed down everyone's board some. It's a safe bet they had at least a 2nd round grade on him (and, in a much deeper draft than any of our other TEs came out of). In their view, ZG wasn't more than a 4th or 5th rounder, and CH was a 5th or 6th round type guy, at best.

The Steelers have always given opportunities to higher ranked/drafted players. Hell, Muth played ~700 O snaps as a rookie. I feel pretty comfortable stating DW (as a 2nd round talent) will see ~470 O snaps -- especially with our greater commitment to running the ball (DW's greatest asset, out of ALL of our TEs). I can see DW running 7-10 routes per game while being targeted 3-4 of those routes with ~70% catch rate. As a receiver, I can definitely see him having a 45/500/3 rookie campaign.

Gotta assume Washington will be on FG block and XP block. KO return + front line on hands team is probably a lock as well and probably punt. I am not sure on KO or punt return. Interesting thought exercise this early into the new roster.

[franco32]

Maybe I need to see more film, because the explosion I saw at the combine from Darnell wasn't on his film. 4.08? I didn't see that in pads. That's all I have to go on. If he showed that Gronk level of athleticism in pads, he would have been ahead of Bowers in the pecking order (and Bowers is fantastic).

Darnell just wasn't that guy. I get that big guys look slower on film but go watch Darnell's combine and immediately after watch some of his film. The athleticism doesn't translate to his route running and receiving. Now, at the 93rd pick, I can live with that. But, he's still a project in order to become a complete NFL tight end.

Can he do it? It will be up to our coaching. They have to get the kid to pay attention to detail and work on his stance, footwork, and technique. If he puts in the hours, the sky is the limit for him. If not, he'll just be a blocking TE for the most part.

[Mick]

Maybe I need to see more film, because the explosion I saw at the combine from Darnell wasn't on his film. 4.08? I didn't see that in pads. That's all I have to go on. If he showed that Gronk level of athleticism in pads, he would have been ahead of Bowers in the pecking order (and Bowers is fantastic).

Darnell just wasn't that guy. I get that big guys look slower on film but go watch Darnell's combine and immediately after watch some of his film. The athleticism doesn't translate to his route running and receiving. Now, at the 93rd pick, I can live with that. But, he's still a project in order to become a complete NFL tight end.

Can he do it? It will be up to our coaching. They have to get the kid to pay attention to detail and work on his stance, footwork, and technique. If he puts in the hours, the sky is the limit for him. If not, he'll just be a blocking TE for the most part.

consider watching some Rob Gronkowski tape to calibrate your brain; i’d argue he was the most dominant skill player in the NFL in the past 15 years, but hardly appears explosive relative to any of the players coming out from college this year. He had great hands though. Similarly, i think Washington’s receiving effectiveness will come down to how well he can catch when he extends and uses his length.

A 6’7” player is 15% taller than a 5’9” player, and as a result looks 15% slower on tape than someone with the exact same speed and COD. Eg, a 6’7” guy that runs a 4.30 will look slower than a 5’9” guy that runs a 4.80. I’ll take the 6’7” 4.30 guy tho.

[SteelerDayTrader]

Maybe I need to see more film, because the explosion I saw at the combine from Darnell wasn't on his film. 4.08? I didn't see that in pads. That's all I have to go on. If he showed that Gronk level of athleticism in pads, he would have been ahead of Bowers in the pecking order (and Bowers is fantastic).

Darnell just wasn't that guy. I get that big guys look slower on film but go watch Darnell's combine and immediately after watch some of his film. The athleticism doesn't translate to his route running and receiving. Now, at the 93rd pick, I can live with that. But, he's still a project in order to become a complete NFL tight end.

Can he do it? It will be up to our coaching. They have to get the kid to pay attention to detail and work on his stance, footwork, and technique. If he puts in the hours, the sky is the limit for him. If not, he'll just be a blocking TE for the most part.

consider watching some Rob Gronkowski tape to calibrate your brain; i’d argue he was the most dominant skill player in the NFL in the past 15 years, but hardly appears explosive relative to any of the players coming out from college this year. He had great hands though. Similarly, i think Washington’s receiving effectiveness will come down to how well he can catch when he extends and uses his length.

A 6’7” player is 15% taller than a 5’9” player, and as a result looks 15% slower on tape than someone with the exact same speed and COD. Eg, a 6’7” guy that runs a 4.30 will look slower than a 5’9” guy that runs a 4.80. I’ll take the 6’7” 4.30 guy tho.

[SteelerDayTrader]

How many “big” plays do you really need from a guy over a season ??

A lot if you have a limited focus offense

But if you get to a point where you are spreading the ball around a good bit it can be a lot less on paper

To me DW looks like the kind of player that could elevate his play in big games

Pickens is the ONLY guy of the roster who can do that now. DW could do the same imo

Additionally I think DW also can make a noticeable impact blocking for other players. I don’t think that’s always fully calculated even in Pittsburgh

One thing I’ve noticed for a long long time now is that in every offense since Arians was axed the Steelers don’t really seem to run routes designed to get guys wide open. I think you’ve got to find players who can still win in those situations