What does TJ actually do?

[ToddHaleysNineIron]

It's bliss folks...

no trolling, no nonsense, no stupidity
a simple block, and you can cut straight to actual discussion rather than nonsense.
Starve the gorilla, just block him

[SteelerDayTrader]

Friendly reminder:

When someone tells you no one has ever proved them wrong, that in no way entails that they have demonstrated that they are right.

Even though STD has been refuted with ample evidence, let him claim the contrary. What has he done to demonstrate Watt is not an elite player other than to assume without justification that his preferred standard for measuring such is the only plausible standard for such?

Answer: nothing.

Carry on

False

[Professor Half Wit]

Friendly reminder:

When someone tells you no one has ever proved them wrong, that in no way entails that they have demonstrated that they are right.

Even though STD has been refuted with ample evidence, let him claim the contrary. What has he done to demonstrate Watt is not an elite player other than to assume without justification that his preferred standard for measuring such is the only plausible standard for such?

Answer: nothing.

Carry on

False

Don't see a refutation there. Because you can't. And that's why you didn't bother. Sound familiar?



I'll say again: I dismiss your dumb standard a priori for what makes a player elite. There's no obligation to agree with you. You haven't given any reason for anyone to accept your standard: you assume without justification that your preferred standard for measuring elite players is the only plausible standard for such.

This is how trolls operate. By pretending personal bias is objective truth.

[stillthere]

So, no games are important according to that argument there. I guess that would make it difficult to show up in an important game since you say there are no important games in the NFL.

Lolololz

Now you’re just being obtuse

Mainly because you are incorrect on this

I am quoting you so I will agree that you are wrong on this.

[RemoAZ]

Defensive Player of the Month
https://steelersdepot.com/2023/09/t-j-w ... the-month/

[Jizz Mop]

Defensive Player of the Month
https://steelersdepot.com/2023/09/t-j-w ... the-month/

Yeah but

[stillthere]

Defensive Player of the Month
https://steelersdepot.com/2023/09/t-j-w ... the-month/

Yeah but

Hard to do in only 3 weeks he must be LowWatt

[Texas Black & Gold]

Defensive Player of the Month
https://steelersdepot.com/2023/09/t-j-w ... the-month/

Yeah but

Hard to do in only 3 weeks he must be LowWatt

STD, Is this not enough evidence for an impact player? Surely you must see the value of TJ.

[SteelerDayTrader]

Yeah but

Hard to do in only 3 weeks he must be LowWatt

STD, Is this not enough evidence for an impact player? Surely you must see the value of TJ.

I never said he wasn’t valuable

He disappears in big moments

Like 0-for a career disappears

[Professor Half Wit]

Hard to do in only 3 weeks he must be LowWatt

STD, Is this not enough evidence for an impact player? Surely you must see the value of TJ.

I never said he wasn’t valuable

He disappears in big moments

Like 0-for a career disappears

I dismiss your dumb standard a priori for what makes a player elite. There's no obligation to agree with you. You haven't given any reason for anyone to accept your standard: you assume without justification that your preferred standard for measuring elite players is the only plausible standard for such.

This is how trolls operate. By pretending personal bias is objective truth.

[W&M_Steeler]

Hard to do in only 3 weeks he must be LowWatt

STD, Is this not enough evidence for an impact player? Surely you must see the value of TJ.

I never said he wasn’t valuable

He disappears in big moments

Like 0-for a career disappears

TJ Watt has had plenty of huge plays and big moments. It's not his fault that he was drafted right as the Steelers' 2010s window was closing. He has spent most of his career on mediocre teams with bad offenses.

Watt played in 3 playoff games. In the first two, (Jags 2017, Browns 2020) he didn't do much, but neither did anyone else on D. Besides, he was a rookie in 2017. I ding him a bit for not doing much in the Browns game, but he more than made up for it in the Chiefs playoff game. Unfortunately, that Steelers team had no business being in the playoffs and was totally outmatched by the Chiefs. That's not TJ's fault. He rose to the occasion.

I think there's little evidence Watt is a choker. If through some time warp he could have been drafted in 2013 instead of Jarvis Jones, I am confident that he would have had many big moments in the playoffs in the 2010s.

[Texas Black & Gold]

"He is probably the most impactful defensive player in the league right now," said Ryans.

Even opposing coaches realize how impactful Watt is to the league.

So why can't a "fan" recognize the same?

[Professor Half Wit]

"He is probably the most impactful defensive player in the league right now," said Ryans.

Even opposing coaches realize how impactful Watt is to the league.

So why can't a "fan" recognize the same?

STD is restricting impact play to "crucial moments" (real obvious what that is ), denying Watt does anything ever in crucial moments, and then denying Watt is elite based on his failing to meet STD's standard.

But I've already shown why STD can be blissfully ignored: there's no reason to adhere to STD's standard. And STD has given no reason why anyone should.

My own position, which I do not trollishly presume is what everyone HAS to agree to, is that ALL plays matter in ALL games because ALL plays affect the outcome. And if one accepts all plays matter in all games, Watt is one elite motherfucker. STD can have his personal, private standard. I'm not impressed by it.

End thread.

[955876]

ALL plays matter in ALL games because ALL plays affect the outcome. And if one accepts all plays matter in all games,,,

I think we can all agree that all plays matter.

However, the founders & followers of “Crucial Plays Matter” will take offense to this. They will say that you can’t say that all plays matter because it degrades the importance & significance of claiming that crucial plays matter.

And until you accept that crucial plays matter more, it’s disrespectful and offensive to say that all plays matter.

[Pabst]

Watt played in 3 playoff games. In the first two, (Jags 2017, Browns 2020) he didn't do much, but neither did anyone else on D. Besides, he was a rookie in 2017. I ding him a bit for not doing much in the Browns game, but he more than made up for it in the Chiefs playoff game. Unfortunately, that Steelers team had no business being in the playoffs and was totally outmatched by the Chiefs. That's not TJ's fault. He rose to the occasion.

I remember discussing that Browns game back when it happened. Watt didn't play poorly at all - the left side of the front 7 (Wormley/Marsh/Highsmith) were painfully bad and there were loads of blown coverages. Here's that thread: viewtopic.php?f=2&t=19009&start=120

There's one play in particular where Watt beats Wyatt Teller on a bull rush only for Baker to flip it to an uncovered Nick Chubb.

[Professor Half Wit]

ALL plays matter in ALL games because ALL plays affect the outcome. And if one accepts all plays matter in all games,,,

I think we can all agree that all plays matter.

However, the founders & followers of “Crucial Plays Matter” will take offense to this. They will say that you can’t say that all plays matter because it degrades the importance & significance of claiming that crucial plays matter.

And until you accept that crucial plays matter more, it’s disrespectful and offensive to say that all plays matter.

To be clear, I also deny Watt never makes crucial plays in crucial moments. I'm saying that even if you concede this nonsense to STD (which allows his position to be at its strongest), you can still dismiss him. And when the stongest reading of your argument can be dismissed, you're argument must not be very good.

[Jobu]

Watt played in 3 playoff games. In the first two, (Jags 2017, Browns 2020) he didn't do much, but neither did anyone else on D. Besides, he was a rookie in 2017. I ding him a bit for not doing much in the Browns game, but he more than made up for it in the Chiefs playoff game. Unfortunately, that Steelers team had no business being in the playoffs and was totally outmatched by the Chiefs. That's not TJ's fault. He rose to the occasion.

I remember discussing that Browns game back when it happened. Watt didn't play poorly at all - the left side of the front 7 (Wormley/Marsh/Highsmith) were painfully bad and there were loads of blown coverages. Here's that thread: viewtopic.php?f=2&t=19009&start=120

There's one play in particular where Watt beats Wyatt Teller on a bull rush only for Baker to flip it to an uncovered Nick Chubb.

Plus, it’s easy to scheme away a certain player's impact when you jump out to a 24-0 lead. So easy, even a special teams coach can do it!

[stillthere]

ALL plays matter in ALL games because ALL plays affect the outcome. And if one accepts all plays matter in all games,,,

I think we can all agree that all plays matter.

However, the founders & followers of “Crucial Plays Matter” will take offense to this. They will say that you can’t say that all plays matter because it degrades the importance & significance of claiming that crucial plays matter.

And until you accept that crucial plays matter more, it’s disrespectful and offensive to say that all plays matter.

Do weighty downs matter more than other plays though? Inquiring minds and all that.....

[955876]

ALL plays matter in ALL games because ALL plays affect the outcome. And if one accepts all plays matter in all games,,,

I think we can all agree that all plays matter.

However, the founders & followers of “Crucial Plays Matter” will take offense to this. They will say that you can’t say that all plays matter because it degrades the importance & significance of claiming that crucial plays matter.

And until you accept that crucial plays matter more, it’s disrespectful and offensive to say that all plays matter.

Do weighty downs matter more than other plays though? Inquiring minds and all that.....

Weighty downs plays certainly matter. But not as much as weighty downs during crucial moments against a quality opponent in a big game matter.

[955876]

ALL plays matter in ALL games because ALL plays affect the outcome. And if one accepts all plays matter in all games,,,

I think we can all agree that all plays matter.

However, the founders & followers of “Crucial Plays Matter” will take offense to this. They will say that you can’t say that all plays matter because it degrades the importance & significance of claiming that crucial plays matter.

And until you accept that crucial plays matter more, it’s disrespectful and offensive to say that all plays matter.

To be clear, I also deny Watt never makes crucial plays in crucial moments. I'm saying that even if you concede this nonsense to STD (which allows his position to be at its strongest), you can still dismiss him. And when the stongest reading of your argument can be dismissed, you're argument must not be very good.

Don’t need to explain it to me. This whole argument is dumb.

We’d be significantly worse without Watt. As evidenced by Jibba’s wonderful 1-9 record without him.

So he makes plays that matter. Period.

[SteelerDayTrader]

ALL plays matter in ALL games because ALL plays affect the outcome. And if one accepts all plays matter in all games,,,

I think we can all agree that all plays matter.

However, the founders & followers of “Crucial Plays Matter” will take offense to this. They will say that you can’t say that all plays matter because it degrades the importance & significance of claiming that crucial plays matter.

And until you accept that crucial plays matter more, it’s disrespectful and offensive to say that all plays matter.

To be clear, I also deny Watt never makes crucial plays in crucial moments. I'm saying that even if you concede this nonsense to STD (which allows his position to be at its strongest), you can still dismiss him. And when the stongest reading of your argument can be dismissed, you're argument must not be very good.

False

[Professor Half Wit]

I think we can all agree that all plays matter.

However, the founders & followers of “Crucial Plays Matter” will take offense to this. They will say that you can’t say that all plays matter because it degrades the importance & significance of claiming that crucial plays matter.

And until you accept that crucial plays matter more, it’s disrespectful and offensive to say that all plays matter.

To be clear, I also deny Watt never makes crucial plays in crucial moments. I'm saying that even if you concede this nonsense to STD (which allows his position to be at its strongest), you can still dismiss him. And when the stongest reading of your argument can be dismissed, you're argument must not be very good.

False

If declarative statements were evidence you’d be in business. Too bad.

[W&M_Steeler]

I remember discussing that Browns game back when it happened. Watt didn't play poorly at all - the left side of the front 7 (Wormley/Marsh/Highsmith) were painfully bad and there were loads of blown coverages. Here's that thread: viewtopic.php?f=2&t=19009&start=120

There's one play in particular where Watt beats Wyatt Teller on a bull rush only for Baker to flip it to an uncovered Nick Chubb.

Plus, it’s easy to scheme away a certain player's impact when you jump out to a 24-0 lead. So easy, even a special teams coach can do it!

Perhaps, but let's not forget that the Defense had a significant role in letting the score get to 21-0. They gave up TD drives of 46 and a 65 yards immediately after the opening fumble debacle. Ben and the offense bear most of the responsibility for losing that game, but the Defense didn't exactly cover itself in glory either. I don't think that TJ had a bad game per se, but he was a non-entity. Disappointing. You wouldn't think such a transcendent talent could be completely schemed out of the game. I know the Steelers were playing Cassius Marsh that game, but even still they had a ton of talent on the field.

[Pabst]

Perhaps, but let's not forget that the Defense had a significant role in letting the score get to 21-0. They gave up TD drives of 46 and a 65 yards immediately after the opening fumble debacle. Ben and the offense bear most of the responsibility for losing that game, but the Defense didn't exactly cover itself in glory either. I don't think that TJ had a bad game per se, but he was a non-entity. Disappointing. You wouldn't think such a transcendent talent could be completely schemed out of the game. I know the Steelers were playing Cassius Marsh that game, but even still they had a ton of talent on the field.

From the thread:

-Browns first possession- 3rd and 4. Busted coverage leads to a Landry TD. Watt was double teamed (chipped by Hunt)
- Browns' next possession features runs of 28, 27, and 11 yards for a TD. ALL 3 RUNS ARE AWAY FROM WATT.
- Browns next possession starts on the Steelers' 15 yard line. Hunt runs for an 8 yard TD.....AWAY FROM WATT.
- Next possession is a punt
- Last possession of the first half. On 2nd & 9, Watt is double teamed, and Chubb takes a screen 21 yards. Next, Hunt runs 12 yards AWAY FROM WATT. Then Cleveland scores on a blown coverage (where Watt still gets pressure on Baker).

At this point the game is 35-7.

So yeah, the reason Watt "didn't show up" in the Cleveland game was that the Browns avoided him and went straight after Highsmith/Marsh (who were awful).

[SteelerDayTrader]

Perhaps, but let's not forget that the Defense had a significant role in letting the score get to 21-0. They gave up TD drives of 46 and a 65 yards immediately after the opening fumble debacle. Ben and the offense bear most of the responsibility for losing that game, but the Defense didn't exactly cover itself in glory either. I don't think that TJ had a bad game per se, but he was a non-entity. Disappointing. You wouldn't think such a transcendent talent could be completely schemed out of the game. I know the Steelers were playing Cassius Marsh that game, but even still they had a ton of talent on the field.

From the thread:

-Browns first possession- 3rd and 4. Busted coverage leads to a Landry TD. Watt was double teamed (chipped by Hunt)
- Browns' next possession features runs of 28, 27, and 11 yards for a TD. ALL 3 RUNS ARE AWAY FROM WATT.
- Browns next possession starts on the Steelers' 15 yard line. Hunt runs for an 8 yard TD.....AWAY FROM WATT.
- Next possession is a punt
- Last possession of the first half. On 2nd & 9, Watt is double teamed, and Chubb takes a screen 21 yards. Next, Hunt runs 12 yards AWAY FROM WATT. Then Cleveland scores on a blown coverage (where Watt still gets pressure on Baker).

At this point the game is 35-7.

So yeah, the reason Watt "didn't show up" in the Cleveland game was that the Browns avoided him and went straight after Highsmith/Marsh (who were awful).

False

[SteelerDayTrader]

Lolololz

This thread is hilarious lol !!!!

Look at yourselves. The lengths you go to try avoid simple facts is unreal but I guess I shouldn’t be surprised at this point. Lolololz

Low Watt is a good player. I won’t deny that

He disappears BIG TIME in the clutch

[Texas Black & Gold]

Perhaps, but let's not forget that the Defense had a significant role in letting the score get to 21-0. They gave up TD drives of 46 and a 65 yards immediately after the opening fumble debacle. Ben and the offense bear most of the responsibility for losing that game, but the Defense didn't exactly cover itself in glory either. I don't think that TJ had a bad game per se, but he was a non-entity. Disappointing. You wouldn't think such a transcendent talent could be completely schemed out of the game. I know the Steelers were playing Cassius Marsh that game, but even still they had a ton of talent on the field.

From the thread:

-Browns first possession- 3rd and 4. Busted coverage leads to a Landry TD. Watt was double teamed (chipped by Hunt)
- Browns' next possession features runs of 28, 27, and 11 yards for a TD. ALL 3 RUNS ARE AWAY FROM WATT.
- Browns next possession starts on the Steelers' 15 yard line. Hunt runs for an 8 yard TD.....AWAY FROM WATT.
- Next possession is a punt
- Last possession of the first half. On 2nd & 9, Watt is double teamed, and Chubb takes a screen 21 yards. Next, Hunt runs 12 yards AWAY FROM WATT. Then Cleveland scores on a blown coverage (where Watt still gets pressure on Baker).

At this point the game is 35-7.

So yeah, the reason Watt "didn't show up" in the Cleveland game was that the Browns avoided him and went straight after Highsmith/Marsh (who were awful).

Hmm!
Based on the above stats, I suppose an argument can be made that Watt was so impactful that the Browns ran plays away from him. Thereby, impacting the outcome of a "big game" in critical moments. Granted, not in the way Steelers fans wanted.

[stillthere]

To be clear, I also deny Watt never makes crucial plays in crucial moments. I'm saying that even if you concede this nonsense to STD (which allows his position to be at its strongest), you can still dismiss him. And when the stongest reading of your argument can be dismissed, you're argument must not be very good.

False

If declarative statements were evidence you’d be in business. Too bad.

But but but... HIG factor and all that shit matters too.

[stillthere]

Lolololz

This thread is hilarious lol !!!!

Look at yourselves. The lengths you go to try avoid simple facts is unreal but I guess I shouldn’t be surprised at this point. Lolololz

Low Watt is a good player. I won’t deny that

He disappears BIG TIME in the clutch

Pot meets kettle is the only thing that can be said.

[Professor Half Wit]

Lolololz

This thread is hilarious lol !!!!

Look at yourselves. The lengths you go to try avoid simple facts is unreal but I guess I shouldn’t be surprised at this point. Lolololz

Low Watt is a good player. I won’t deny that

He disappears BIG TIME in the clutch

I’m telling you. This isn’t going to fill the hole in your soul you’re trying to fill.