How I draft our next franchise QB...

[jeemie]

Actually the calculation for the exclusive and non-exclusive tag is different.

The exclusive tag is based off the top five salaries for the COMING year.

The non-exclusive tag is based off the average salaries of the top five over the past five years.

Yes, but I believe that those distinctions don't matter because in either scenario the 120% of the previous years salary would be used because it would be greater. I still don't see how it would be an issue. There were no other big RB contracts that radically changed the landscape, some may say Freeman but it was still for a little more than what McCoy got.

In either scenario, exclusive or non exclusive, 120% will probably be used because it will be greater. So, again, I still see no reason why the Steelers can't use the non exclusive tag on him next season. I know it is a tricky thing to figure out and I am sure we will learn more if it comes to pass.

You are right about all of this, of course, and I've seen nothing that explicitly says doing this would not be legal according to the CBA, save for what Albert Greer told FC, but I bet an owner would not do this unless he was 1000% sure he had a team out there that would give him two draft picks.

There are the other arguments here against your proposal, of course, notably the one about how top ten QBs by and large have not been successful in the NFL, and you're taking a large bet and potentially weakening your team if you do this and your choice at QB doesn't pan out.

But your general principle that there ought to be a plan in place to maximize getting a franchise QB as Ben's replacement is a good one.

[Legacy User]

Who is this mythical can't miss prospect coming out at QB that is worth giving up Bell for in the off-chance that some team would actually give up two first round draft choices to get Bell 1 year early?

Not to mention that Ben could be Brett 2.0 with his retirement talk.

Entitled to your ideas, but it is VERY hypothetical.

Personally,I'd prefer they maximize what they have around Ben while they have Ben.

[USS Steelerworks]

This whole thread is pointless. No team is going to give up two 1st round picks on an injury prone RB on the league substance abuse program knowing they have to sign him at the same time to a record breaking deal when they could get him the following season without having to give up any picks.

If there is a team dumb enough to do it, I'm all for this plan though.

[955876]

Personally,I'd prefer they maximize what they have around Ben while they have Ben.

This.

You do everything you can to win another while he is here.

Hate this lame fear of having a 6-10 or worse season after he's gone. IF they can get their shit together and IF we finally catch some luck on the injury front and manage to win another SB with Ben who the hell cares about a few down years after?

A couple of stinker years is also the quickest path to being good again. Much better than squeaking out 8-8 and slapping yourself on the back for not having a "losing" season.

[Legacy User]

Personally,I'd prefer they maximize what they have around Ben while they have Ben.

This.

You do everything you can to win another while he is hear.

Hate this lame fear of having a 6-10 or worse season after he's gone. IF they can get their shit together and IF we finally catch some luck on the injury front and manage to win another SB with Ben who the hell cares about a few down years after?

A couple of stinker years is also the quickest path to being good again. Much better than squeaking out 8-8 and slapping yourself on the back for not having a "losing" season.

[Legacy User]

But why have stinker years? I mean there's no rule that says you have to.

That's why I like the favre Rodgers model. Get the next franchise qb while you already have one. In one key way steelers have it easier than the pack too. Favre didn't want to retire. Ben really does.

Close to ideal situation if they get a qb and he sits for one or even two years behind Ben. One would be perfect imo.

I don't think the steelers need to sell out to get into the top 5. They moved up 10 sports or so to get polamalu. They win the SB they could get up into the teens by packaging bell with a pick or two more.

I think the key thing to understand here is Ben wants out. No matter how much he smoothes it over it's pretty evident that he's thinking about his family over the team at this point. Only matter of time. Injury probably accelerates this too. They have to be realistic about this.

[955876]

That's why I like the favre Rodgers model.

Can it really be referred to as a "model" if it's literally only happened once in league history?

Well twice if you count Montana/Young but Young was traded for rather than drafted so a bit different.

Even counting Young, two occurances of a team going from one franchise QB to another is hardly a model.

Better to refer to it as being lucky as fuck.

[Legacy User]

That's why I like the favre Rodgers model.

Can it really be referred to as a "model" if it's literally only happened once in league history?

Well twice if you count Montana/Young but Young was traded for rather than drafted so a bit different.

Even counting Young, two occurances of a team going from one franchise QB to another is hardly a model.

Better to refer to it as being lucky as fuck.

Is it luck or is it smart or both? Rodgers was drafted in the 20s sometime right. 24 just looked. The pack had a legend at the helm, fan favorite etc. they had the balls to pull the trigger.

Then they had to deal with some bitchiness. But yeah I see parallels with our current sitch and heck yeah hope it turns out the same way.

[Legacy User]

I mean I love Ben and all but the new kid could go 15-1 like it's '04 all over again

[Legacy User]

And PPS big part like I mentioned in bens this is not like the typical past his due date pro athlete who sadly refuses to hang it up. In Ben it's setting up perfectly for him. More like bettis

[Legacy User]

Better to refer to it as being lucky as fuck.

[jebrick]

That's why I like the favre Rodgers model.

Can it really be referred to as a "model" if it's literally only happened once in league history?

Well twice if you count Montana/Young but Young was traded for rather than drafted so a bit different.

Even counting Young, two occurances of a team going from one franchise QB to another is hardly a model.

Better to refer to it as being lucky as fuck.

Is it luck or is it smart or both? Rodgers was drafted in the 20s sometime right. 24 just looked. The pack had a legend at the helm, fan favorite etc. they had the balls to pull the trigger.

Then they had to deal with some bitchiness. But yeah I see parallels with our current sitch and heck yeah hope it turns out the same way.

The other is the Colts. Suck for Luck.

But overall I think the NFL is cyclical. The Steelers will have a valley but it depends on the organization to turn it around quickly. The Steelers and the Seahawks have shown the way. Build a solid team and then get your QB. Getting a franchise QB on a shitty team tends to break the franchise QB. There are exceptions

[Kodiak]

This whole thread is pointless. No team is going to give up two 1st round picks on an injury prone RB on the league substance abuse program

This season could alleviate those injury concerns. And, I believe, sometimes early next year Bell goes back to Step 0, like anyone who has never tested positive, in the program. Unlike Bryant, there isn't an appeals process it is automatic if he tests clean for 2 years.

Otherwise, I agree no one is giving up 2 #1's for a RB, ESPECIALLY if they can't do a sign and trade deal. There is literally a handful of guys in the league worth 2 #1's, and probably only if you can get a long-term deal in place. Now, if PIT agrees to an extension with Bell, you MIGHT potentially land a #1 and #3....but, again, that scenario is only plausible because Bell would be under L-T contract AND Steelers would be absorbing a large chunk of SB.

[Kodiak]

Let's say a first round pick produces on average 4m of surplus value. Thus two first rounders are worth 8m. Bell wants well above market already plus they'd have to pay the Steelers 8m. Seems highly unlikely.

Zeke droppin' some expected value!!!!

[955876]

Is it luck or is it smart or both?

I'd say more luck than smarts in this instance. The 49ers at the time were a mess. The head coach & GM were fired in the offseason leading up to that draft. They were also now guided by the York's after Debartolo had to relinquish control of the team a few years prior.

New HC Mike Nolan was given both coaching and GM duties. Kinda crazy considering it was his first HC gig in the NFL.

He chose noodle armed Alex Smith #1 overall instead of the strong armed Rodgers. Who was also a local fan favorite being from Northern California as well as playing college ball at Cal.

And here is the kicker, Nolan is on record saying on field performance/potential wasn't his deciding factor. It was that he believed Smith to be a "nicer guy" than the cocky & arrogant Rodgers.

Fine if we are talking bout dudes wanting to date your daughter. Not so much when deciding who will be the better QB.

So how smart were the Packers vs. how dumb was the first year HC and novice GM?

[Kodiak]

But even with this offensive line Ben is taking shots. He has missed 6 games the past two years.

Ben's been brittle his whole career. In theory, getting hit less means less chance of injury...but it still only takes one awkward hit.

I don't think Ben feels he's breaking down. I think he's worried about CTE.

[Legacy User]

We've been deep into the playoffs, and even to the Super Bowl with some crappy "transitional" QB's.

[955876]

I think his frustration with the way the season ended played a role.

What's the point if they are going to continue to defend the NE offense in such a manner?

I'm sure that has had to cross his mind to some degree

[Kodiak]

We've been deep into the playoffs, and even to the Super Bowl with some crappy "transitional" QB's.

O'Donnell's receivers definitely helped him, a lot, but he was a pretty good QB in that era....and quite a bit better than anything we had between Bradshaw and Ben.

[Legacy User]

Is it luck or is it smart or both?

I'd say more luck than smarts in this instance. The 49ers at the time were a mess. The head coach & GM were fired in the offseason leading up to that draft. They were also now guided by the York's after Debartolo had to relinquish control of the team a few years prior.

New HC Mike Nolan was given both coaching and GM duties. Kinda crazy considering it was his first HC gig in the NFL.

He chose noodle armed Alex Smith #1 overall instead of the strong armed Rodgers. Who was also a local fan favorite being from Northern California as well as playing college ball at Cal.

And here is the kicker, Nolan is on record saying on field performance/potential wasn't his deciding factor. It was that he believed Smith to be a "nicer guy" than the cocky & arrogant Rodgers.

Fine if we are talking bout dudes wanting to date your daughter. Not so much when deciding who will be the better QB.

So how smart were the Packers vs. how dumb was the first year HC and novice GM?

Well I'm not trying to analyze the entire historical event, just pointing out that it's very possible to get a franchise qb later in round 1 and do it while you have a top qb. The lucky part is bagging an Aaron Rodgers but the smart part is recognizing the opportunity.

[Kodiak]

...just pointing out that it's very possible to get a franchise qb later in round 1 and do it while you have a top qb.

Why even invest an R1 pick? I mean, it's possible to get a HOFer in R6....

QB is a complete crapshoot. You're more likely to end-up like the Browns and other teams when you start dumping high pick after high pick into finding a franchise QB.

Personally, I think teams overthink it. Accuracy and NFL arm-strength is all I would look for. I think all that stuff about smarts and readyness are highly overrated - too many wasted picks on guys who lacked one or both of the above.

[Legacy User]

11 pages on obtaining our future Bubby Brister

SMH

We need the season to start. Christ.

[Kodiak]

11 pages on obtaining our future Bubby Brister

Well, it's not like we don't already have Dobbs

[Legacy User]

Manning 1
Roethlisberger 11
Flacco 18
Rogers 24
Brees 33
Wilson 75
Brady 199

Those are the only 7 QBs in the nfl currently worth a damn. Notice anything ?

Football is changing. The Cheats and Hawks play differently.

I think Lamar Jackson is my fave QB in the draft so far. He might fall to the 2nd.

[955876]

Well I'm not trying to analyze the entire historical event, just pointing out that it's very possible to get a franchise qb later in round 1 and do it while you have a top qb. The lucky part is bagging an Aaron Rodgers but the smart part is recognizing the opportunity.

It woukd be better to say it's possible rather than very possible as Rodgers situation was very uncommon. But that's just splitting hairs. I get your point.

[955876]

It might be more important to have a coach & OC who know how to give a QB what he needs schematically to succeed than the QB itself.

Not saying QB talent doesn't matter