Mike Mitchell and Troy P

[Legacy User]

Are these guys MIA due to scheme or what? I saw Troy up around the line a few times. Mitchell had one hit that I recall. But since the secondary is getting lit up by the Hoyer's and Glennon's of the league, WTF are these guys doing? That 40 yarder to Jackson at the end, how did it happen? Were Troy and Mitchell where they were supposed to be?

???

[stinger8]

Lot of people dumping on Allen on that long pass. It sure looked like a zone where he followed Murphy for a few steps inside then released him to where a safety "should" be. I THINK that was on Troy and Mitchell (one or other). Our safety play has been below the line, obviously.

[Legacy User]

I'll have to re-watch, but the sad truth is I think the last game might have been Mitchell's best one yet...

[Legacy User]

Allen fucked the dog. But Jackson ran damn near 30 yards AFTER catch. Where the fuck were the safeties?

[Legacy User]

I'll have to re-watch, but the sad truth is I think the last game might have been Mitchell's best one yet...

What the hell did he do?

The secondary is a run away dumpster fire.

Outside of Gay, I see nothing but shit play.

[Legacy User]

Gay isn't very good. Have you watched the All-22? With secondary play that is probably more critical than any other piece if you want to evaluate them fairly.

Otherwise all you see is what happens when the ball is in their area. Even then, I think Allen has more picks than anyone else in the secondary this season (or anyone we've let go in the last 4 seasons) and it's not even close.

Mitchell was pretty solid in run support, but I will re-watch.

It's not a good unit, but it is what it is... You have to evaluate fairly.

[jeemie]

Gay isn't very good. Have you watched the All-22? With secondary play that is probably more critical than any other piece if you want to evaluate them fairly.

Otherwise all you see is what happens when the ball is in their area. Even then, I think Allen has more picks than anyone else in the secondary this season (or anyone we've let go in the last 4 seasons) and it's not even close.

Mitchell was pretty solid in run support, but I will re-watch.

It's not a good unit, but it is what it is... You have to evaluate fairly.

It looked like LeBeau blitzed on that play too.

Sorry- that's a time you want to make sure everything deep is taken away- how is the deep part of the field not absolutely clogged with defenders?

[Legacy User]

As Dejan highlighted in his article my uneducated opinion is I'm not overly happy with overage concepts these days. Not going into detail on how I think it should change because my opinion is irrelevant on the matter. But a simple Tampa 2 drop from a LB or invert a safety into a robber role eliminated that 41 yard play instead of basic 2 man in trail

[Steelperch]

I'll have to re-watch, but the sad truth is I think the last game might have been Mitchell's best one yet...

I thought the same. Mitchell seems to be coming around. Troy is beyond done which tells me Shamarko Thomas must really suck, or the Steelers are too caught up in the name on the back of Polamalu's jersey to make a change. The way they parade Polamalu, Keisel, and Harrison out last in pre-grame intros tells me this is a team stuck in the glory of the past. How must it feel to be Timmons or Heyward and have the franchise put all of the glory towards guys who were washed up 3 years ago instead of their current day stars.

[jeemie]

I'll have to re-watch, but the sad truth is I think the last game might have been Mitchell's best one yet...

I thought the same. Mitchell seems to be coming around. Troy is beyond done which tells me Shamarko Thomas must really suck, or the Steelers are too caught up in the name on the back of Polamalu's jersey to make a change. The way they parade Polamalu, Keisel, and Harrison out last in pre-grame intros tells me this is a team stuck in the glory of the past. How must it feel to be Timmons or Heyward and have the franchise put all of the glory towards guys who were washed up 3 years ago instead of their current day stars.

This was the point I was trying to make in all the positive hype that happened when we re-signed Harrison.

I don't give a shit about our old stars "finishing up their careers right by finishing them here".

Ask Philadelphia fans if Steve Carlton "finished his career the right way".

[bradshaw2ben]

As Dejan highlighted in his article my uneducated opinion is I'm not overly happy with overage concepts these days. Not going into detail on how I think it should change because my opinion is irrelevant on the matter. But a simple Tampa 2 drop from a LB or invert a safety into a robber role eliminated that 41 yard play instead of basic 2 man in trail

It looked like man coverage but big cushions with a single high. Allen followed that route but was a million miles away and got horribly sidetracked in the wash. Troy was caught deciding whether to try and get to the wide open receiver before the completion or taking a proper angle to at least make the tackle. He chose the former but was late getting there, which also meant he missed being the last line of defense.

[stillcajun]

I'll have to re-watch, but the sad truth is I think the last game might have been Mitchell's best one yet...

I thought the same. Mitchell seems to be coming around. Troy is beyond done which tells me Shamarko Thomas must really suck, or the Steelers are too caught up in the name on the back of Polamalu's jersey to make a change. The way they parade Polamalu, Keisel, and Harrison out last in pre-grame intros tells me this is a team stuck in the glory of the past. How must it feel to be Timmons or Heyward and have the franchise put all of the glory towards guys who were washed up 3 years ago instead of their current day stars.

Something is wrong when Shamarko can't get into the game but Brice Mccain can. So are they seriously trying to say that a career ST guy is better than your 3rd Rd "heir apparent" pick. I thought the object was winning w/ your best players on the field. This does not bode well. This would be different if our secondary wasn't leaking like a sieve I could understand but all this guy does is make plays on the field when he's allowed to play that is.

[stillcajun]

Allen fucked the dog. But Jackson ran damn near 30 yards AFTER catch. Where the fuck were the safeties?

Here's an article about that play.

http://www.behindthesteelcurtain.com/steelers-film-room/2014/9/30/6870035/steelers-film-room-secondary-defense-analysis-nfl-week-4

[Steelafan77]

Allen fucked the dog. But Jackson ran damn near 30 yards AFTER catch. Where the fuck were the safeties?

Troy made a comment yesterday that he was to blame for the Murphy 40 yarder.

Strong safety Troy Polamalu: “We were in a Cover 3 (zone) and they were able to find a hole in the coverage. We probably could have done some things to match that route much better. We’ll see what the film shows.

“For me personally in that coverage, I felt I should have been much closer to that play, perhaps even make the play. That’s the disappointing part for me. We’ll see how I can improve to help this team out.” http://www.steelers.com/news/article-1/ ... c9dc020a58

[Legacy User]

Allen fucked the dog. But Jackson ran damn near 30 yards AFTER catch. Where the fuck were the safeties?

Here's an article about that play.

http://www.behindthesteelcurtain.com/steelers-film-room/2014/9/30/6870035/steelers-film-room-secondary-defense-analysis-nfl-week-4

Thanks, Cajun. Well there we go. A bunch of assholes standing around out of position with WTFs going on here looks slapped all over their faces. It's unreal.

[zeke5123]

As Dejan highlighted in his article my uneducated opinion is I'm not overly happy with overage concepts these days. Not going into detail on how I think it should change because my opinion is irrelevant on the matter. But a simple Tampa 2 drop from a LB or invert a safety into a robber role eliminated that 41 yard play instead of basic 2 man in trail

It looked like man coverage but big cushions with a single high. Allen followed that route but was a million miles away and got horribly sidetracked in the wash. Troy was caught deciding whether to try and get to the wide open receiver before the completion or taking a proper angle to at least make the tackle. He chose the former but was late getting there, which also meant he missed being the last line of defense.

That is what I saw. TB ran a combo route, with the slot WR running a fly and the wide out running a skinny post. Allen gave the TB wideout a big cushion, which allowed the slot WR to essentially pick Allen on the fly route. Allen never passed Murphy off, he was still running with him, but had to essentially give an even larger cushion to avoid the slot WR. Then, Troy took a really bad route. If Troy takes a slightly better route, no YAC and the Steelers probably win.

[Legacy User]

It looked to me like 3 guys all anticipated the pass was going to #82.

Then, when Murphy ended up being the guy catching the ball, everyone was out of position.

[Orangesteel]

I'll have to re-watch, but the sad truth is I think the last game might have been Mitchell's best one yet...

I thought the same. Mitchell seems to be coming around. Troy is beyond done which tells me Shamarko Thomas must really suck, or the Steelers are too caught up in the name on the back of Polamalu's jersey to make a change. The way they parade Polamalu, Keisel, and Harrison out last in pre-grame intros tells me this is a team stuck in the glory of the past. How must it feel to be Timmons or Heyward and have the franchise put all of the glory towards guys who were washed up 3 years ago instead of their current day stars.

This is it.

[Steelafan77]

Depot has this particular play all 22 gif.

http://www.steelersdepot.com/2014/09/st ... h-quarter/

[jeemie]

What really worries me is all these guys using the wrong leverage (assuming btsc's analysis is correct, and it looks correct to me).

How hard can it be to remember where your help is? That seems like basic stuff to me.

[stinger8]

That is what I saw. TB ran a combo route, with the slot WR running a fly and the wide out running a skinny post. Allen gave the TB wideout a big cushion, which allowed the slot WR to essentially pick Allen on the fly route. Allen never passed Murphy off, he was still running with him, but had to essentially give an even larger cushion to avoid the slot WR. Then, Troy took a really bad route. If Troy takes a slightly better route, no YAC and the Steelers probably win.[/quote]

Zeke if you read the attached article he Steelers were in cover 3. 3 deep guys 1/3 of the field each. The guy caught the ball very close to the middle of the field which would be the Safety's area. Allen DID pass off the guy as he was supposed to do. Mitchell bit on a short hook, why the fuck I dont know and he and or Troy are your culprits. Its ok to hate but be objective

[zeke5123]

That is what I saw. TB ran a combo route, with the slot WR running a fly and the wide out running a skinny post. Allen gave the TB wideout a big cushion, which allowed the slot WR to essentially pick Allen on the fly route. Allen never passed Murphy off, he was still running with him, but had to essentially give an even larger cushion to avoid the slot WR. Then, Troy took a really bad route. If Troy takes a slightly better route, no YAC and the Steelers probably win.

Zeke if you read the attached article he Steelers were in cover 3. 3 deep guys 1/3 of the field each. The guy caught the ball very close to the middle of the field which would be the Safety's area. Allen DID pass off the guy as he was supposed to do. Mitchell bit on a short hook, why the fuck I dont know and he and or Troy are your culprits. Its ok to hate but be objective[/quote]

I did read the article. I was correct about the combo route (though it was a TE -- my memory failed me). The weird thing about watching the All-22 that someone posted was that Allen doesn't look, at least to me, like he passed it off. I do think that was the playcall, but just look at Allen and ask whether he ever passed his guy off. However, after watching the All-22 you are right the safeties were probably the most to blame.

[zeke5123]

Looking at it again, Allen never had a chance to pass his guy off. He saw the throw and began to break on the throw really when Murphy makes his cut (though he took a terrible angle).

I do think it was a good play design. The combo routes was a nice design The pass rush also needs to disrupt that play a bit longer as well.

[Legacy User]

Vacate the middle of the field is right. Some people are going to say oh Troy is washed up. Mitchell sucks. We should have drafted better. The O should have put away the lowly bucs.

But the middle of the field is wide the fuck open people! I mean I could have gotten 40 yards on that play. They are not defending the middle of the field. One player, any player could be timmons, Spence, Mitchell, any player at all in the middle of the field and that's either a pick or doesn't get thrown.

Here's what I believe it is. Steelers D is designed to stop run, run, pass. Iow how the steelers usually play offense. Teams that push the tempo, spread it out, dink and dunk, crossing passes, picks, misdirections...LeBeau can't handle this. I mean, his brain just can't get there. He still thinks the other team is gonna run it on first down, run it on second down, then drop deep for a long conversion on third.

Teams have been killing the steelers because of this. Untold draft talent has been passed, franchise tags, contracts signed all in order to fulfill the old man's fantasies.

[stinger8]

Vacate the middle of the field is right. Some people are going to say oh Troy is washed up. Mitchell sucks. We should have drafted better. The O should have put away the lowly bucs.

But the middle of the field is wide the fuck open people! I mean I could have gotten 40 yards on that play. They are not defending the middle of the field. One player, any player could be timmons, Spence, Mitchell, any player at all in the middle of the field and that's either a pick or doesn't get thrown.

Here's what I believe it is. Steelers D is designed to stop run, run, pass. Iow how the steelers usually play offense. Teams that push the tempo, spread it out, dink and dunk, crossing passes, picks, misdirections...LeBeau can't handle this. I mean, his brain just can't get there. He still thinks the other team is gonna run it on first down, run it on second down, then drop deep for a long conversion on third.

Teams have been killing the steelers because of this. Untold draft talent has been passed, franchise tags, contracts signed all in order to fulfill the old man's fantasies.

The middle was open cause they were paranoid of a deep out and getting out of bounds and stopping the clock. So they said you can have the middle we tackle the catch and the clock runs. Problem was it was 40 yards down field (after a 27 yard punt).

[Legacy User]

Vacate the middle of the field is right. Some people are going to say oh Troy is washed up. Mitchell sucks. We should have drafted better. The O should have put away the lowly bucs.

But the middle of the field is wide the fuck open people! I mean I could have gotten 40 yards on that play. They are not defending the middle of the field. One player, any player could be timmons, Spence, Mitchell, any player at all in the middle of the field and that's either a pick or doesn't get thrown.

Here's what I believe it is. Steelers D is designed to stop run, run, pass. Iow how the steelers usually play offense. Teams that push the tempo, spread it out, dink and dunk, crossing passes, picks, misdirections...LeBeau can't handle this. I mean, his brain just can't get there. He still thinks the other team is gonna run it on first down, run it on second down, then drop deep for a long conversion on third.

Teams have been killing the steelers because of this. Untold draft talent has been passed, franchise tags, contracts signed all in order to fulfill the old man's fantasies.

The middle was open cause they were paranoid of a deep out and getting out of bounds and stopping the clock. So they said you can have the middle we tackle the catch and the clock runs. Problem was it was 40 yards down field (after a 27 yard punt).

If what you say is true, it's equally stupid. It's "what you put on tape" right?

Nobody fears the steelers defense because LeBeau can be had by anyone so easily. A first year OC with a soul patch gets the latest last laugh. Oh well Dick's giving good stories for the grandkids. That's something positive.

[stillcajun]

What really worries me is all these guys using the wrong leverage (assuming btsc's analysis is correct, and it looks correct to me).

How hard can it be to remember where your help is? That seems like basic stuff to me.

This is confusing as hell to me as well. I would expect this from a rook but a 4-5 yr guy making these same mistakes is freakin mind boggling. Factor in that our secondary have no ball skills whatsoever. Coverage 101 says to play proper technique and when the receiver looks back for the ball then it's best that you do as well. A good portion of our secondary issues would be nullified if they would play the ball in the air instead of grabbing or hitting the receiver.

[COR-TEN]

I'm no defensive (or offensive) expert, but it seems that Allen was playing soft. I mean even if he was supposed to pass the receiver to the safety, he looked lost. The other defensive back seemed lost as well. Didn't know who to cover.

Second, if Steelers were playing cover 3, why the fuck did mitchell bite on a 8-10 yard gain in the middle with a minute left and no timeouts for the Bucs? It would have eaten up another 20 seconds to line them up, and then they would have had a what, 1st and 10 at the 36 yard line with about 40 seconds an no time outs.

Also, TP totally took the wrong angle, but I don't think it would have made a difference. I think they would have still scored. Both previous attempts were likely PI not called.

[Steelafan77]

Poll Question: Where do you place the blame on the late meltdown against Tampa Bay? Answer #1: Tomlin for calling third down play (19%) Answer #2: Brad Wing for poor punt (6%) Answer #3: Dick LeBeau for allowing 41-yard pass (19%) Answer #4: Players for allowing 41-yard pass (56%) Answer #5: The return of Renegade (0%) http://www.post-gazette.com/sports/stee ... 1409300214

Hmmm.....missed this poll. I'll go with the other 56% of the people on this.

[Legacy User]

As I said in another thread, Allen is pretty good playing press coverage, he sucks in zone and giving huge cushions, if we play to his strengths more this doesn't happen