The Last Play of the Denver Game - Not Ben’s Fault!

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LakecrestSteeler
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The Last Play of the Denver Game - Not Ben’s Fault!

Post by LakecrestSteeler » Wed Nov 28, 2018 12:36 pm

Ok, a bit of a teaser headline, but there is some truth to it. I posted a bit of this in B2B’s thread, but thought the play was dark in people’s minds, and needed some sunshine so hopefully the PS can address this problem by reading my thread, or Furians just have to live with the warts of the 7 to 84 combo.

First off JuJu and Washington were not options on this play. JuJu was covered like a bed, and Washington was doing his best AB impersonation to the corner.

I pointed out the all pro block of Okorafor in B2B’s thread and will highlight it again, to show the block, and because some thought Conner could have waltzed into the end zone if Ben had given him the ball. It seems that way until you track number 51 Davis from the Donkos.
Image
As you can see he was spying Conner on this goalline play. About the only run that would have worked, is Conner picking up Davis and Ben with a QB keeper along the awesome front provided by the O line.
Image
With that said let’s turn our attention to AB. AB may actually be at “fault” on this interception, fault in quotes. The picture below shows AB in perfect position for a drag about 1 yard off the goalline. If he does this he can keep the defender on his hip, it would seem. Also, he could have created a pick using the Bronco defender on his right arm. That would have kept the CB at bay.

Image

As you can see he quickly gives up the drag and starts heading towards the back of the end zone on line to the post. This immediately gives the defender ball you man positioning, and the defender has reclaimed the advantage. Ben would need to lob the throw at this point to get it over the defender, and into AB’s hands before the end line. Low probability at the 3 yard line with AB’s speed and height. And look closely, the ball is already released. I think Ben is expecting a drag route.

Image

Instead we get Ben throwing a low trajectory ball at a spot that coincides with a drag route perhaps, but runs into a James Harrison wannabe? I don’t think Pouncey blocked him into the pass...he was pealing off and some how they had the perfect defense called for every option of that play.

If AB runs the drag, he might have caught the ball or been able to bust up the play with the d-linemen.

Obviously we don’t know the answer, but it would explain some things. AB improvises to get open as we know. This is the QB and AB having a strong WiFi connection. So either they were not on the same page with the routes being run; our practice squad provides no heat during the week when they run this play, and our offense is delusional in thinking they could release the ball so early and execute 6 points; or Ben absolutely choked and threw an awful pass.

I am going with the missed drag route and a Harrisonesque D line play.

Either way this play needs to be put to pasture, unless we add the QB keeper along the front provided by the O line. I just don’t think throwing through the trees to the 5’10” guy is going to work on the 3 yard line.
Image



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jebrick
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Post by jebrick » Wed Nov 28, 2018 1:02 pm

If the NT did not get it the CB covering AB would have had it. He was already cutting in front of AB when the pass is intercepted. A soft toss like that was as good as a wounded duck ball when the LOS is the 2.
When you see the writing on the wall, you are in the toilet. -- Fred Sanford

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Steelafan77
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Post by Steelafan77 » Wed Nov 28, 2018 1:03 pm

Was definitely a team loss. Ben insists on taking all the blame for the offense but I have to admit Ben was only a fraction of the trainwreck Sunday. WR's dropsies was huge!

Defense unable to stop a 'Rookie' running back from running for 110 yards @ 7.9 yards a carry pace. No wonder the dude kept talking shit to those dumbasses. They were getting trucked like bitches. By a rookie. The defense couldn't get off the field on 3rd downs. All day.

Definitely a Team Loss in Denver.

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Post by steelcountry » Wed Nov 28, 2018 1:10 pm

jebrick wrote:If the NT did not get it the CB covering AB would have had it. He was already cutting in front of AB when the pass is intercepted. A soft toss like that was as good as a wounded duck ball when the LOS is the 2.

Lakecrest's point is that if AB stays on his original path then the CB can't cut in front of him, which is true. This is ignoring the NT dropping into the passing lane, I can believe that was a fluke that he was in that position though.

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Post by jeemie » Wed Nov 28, 2018 1:32 pm

Dude... Stop.

Just stop.

Ben lost his key with the bad snap and running into Connor. Then he threw blindly into the middle of the field.

The interception is his fault and his fault alone.

Stop making excuses for a 15-year veteran. Ben should know better. End of story.
“Yeah we suck, be there is a chance we could suck slightly more if we try to correct the problem.” - Art Deuce (summarized by SteelPerch)

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Post by jeemie » Wed Nov 28, 2018 2:04 pm

Also, if you watch the play live instead of using screenshots, which never tell the whole story, you’ll see that if Brown had done a drag route he would have smacked into the defender AV was driving into his path...no way could he have put that guy on his right hip.

Again...play was dead with the bad snap and the collision. A 15 year vet should know not to blindly launch an off-balance throw (Ben released because of pressure, not because he was “expecting the drag route”...as actually watching the video would show you) into the middle of a packed end zone.

I don’t get this obsession among some to work overtime to absolve Ben when he fucks up. These folks will criticize almost every other player or coach, but with Ben it’s dig dig dig for a rationalization as to why something wasn’t his fault.

Why is this?
“Yeah we suck, be there is a chance we could suck slightly more if we try to correct the problem.” - Art Deuce (summarized by SteelPerch)

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Post by Legacy User » Wed Nov 28, 2018 2:07 pm

Is this the ALL-22 that you clipped from? Either way that is a lot of work.

Too bad there is no easy way to make these as gifs.

I have no dog in the fight but its cool to at least argue about clips. {So many things went wrong I am more frustrated about this game than the beatdown against the Ravens}.

I give you credit for doing the work.

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Post by Legacy User » Wed Nov 28, 2018 2:10 pm

This reminds me of the game against Denver where Kordell threw an int during a comeback I believe in similar fashion.

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Post by Legacy User » Wed Nov 28, 2018 2:13 pm

Jeemie wrote:Also, if you watch the play live instead of using screenshots, which never tell the whole story, you’ll see that if Brown had done a drag route he would have smacked into the defender AV was driving into his path...no way could he have put that guy on his right hip.

Again...play was dead with the bad snap and the collision. A 15 year vet should know not to blindly launch an off-balance throw (Ben released because of pressure, not because he was “expecting the drag route”...as actually watching the video would show you) into the middle of a packed end zone.

I don’t get this obsession among some to work overtime to absolve Ben when he fucks up. These folks will criticize almost every other player or coach, but with Ben it’s dig dig dig for a rationalization as to why something wasn’t his fault.

Why is this?


I am surprised the infamous Crash from the old Trib Board doesnt haunt this place. He would do 20 pages defending Ben in the offseason. Maybe he is this Madden guy that is a radio personality I hear about all the time from Pittsburgh.

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Post by Stosh-67 » Wed Nov 28, 2018 2:36 pm

Turning our 15 year vet, HOF QB into a RPO quarterback in goal line situations at this point of his career is head scratching, considering.

-We shied away from Ben running the ball for 5+ years
-We would be putting our franchise in less than ideal situations to really get drilled in open field situations in which the QB is clearly a runner and not intent on going down with a feet first slide.
-His injury history or getting banged up.

More importantly, if we were to start incorporating the RPO into our game................we need to work on it and practice it. It is a difficult, fast read and react play that needs everyone on the same page.
-We take a day off every Wednesday, a day we can work on communication for these RPO situations, to not run into one another, to practice these quick read, quick pass, bang bang plays that we have now resorted to.
-We have more than enough options at getting the ball into the endzone.
-A top 5, top 2 OL that has shown success at creating running room with TD runs this year.
-A RB in Conner, who has shown a knack for running the ball into the endzone.
-A hammer of a FB in Nix.
-A FB in Nix that can also get out or slide thru as a passing option.
-Two big TE's to create height mismatches with DB's or LB's
-AB
-JuJu
-Bens ability to roll out, extend a play if the first look is not there.
-His ability to roll right while a RB, A TE and a WR roll with him....one short, one middle, one at the back of the endzone.

We still use very little to none..motion or miss-direction in these situations.
Nothing to get the defensive players moving, shifting, barking out signals or trying to communicate with one another. Nothing to get them thinking or nervous pre-snap.
Three downs, three formations almost the same. No variety, no deception, no creativity........and we were the team that looked clumsy, on different pages, un-prepared and un-practiced in the biggest moment of the game.

Have we not learned from last years Pats ending debacle ............what clumsy, un-prepeared, un-practiced and not on the same page looks like.
Well we have not learned anything and we are still not ready for these moments.

We got lucky with the RPO vs. the Jags. Luckly Ben did not collide harder with Feiler on his dive to the endzone. Lucky he did not cough it up.

We need to rely on at least 4 things, scheme, repetition, skill and execution in these moments.
To me, we are failing on the the first two items, scheme and repetition ( Monday - thru Saturday ), which is diminishing our top level skills and making it more difficult to execute.

Who is going to take charge and say enough is enough.
It starts in practice. Every available day of practice to demand perfection.
To improve communication so we are not burning time outs. 4 wasted time outs in the last two games because of communication is unexceptable.
Communication is ironed out and practiced during the week, so we are prepared for game situations that may arise.

The one thing that needs to end is the turnovers.
They killed that game. Killed momentum.
Turnovers are usually the only way an inferior team can stay in the game, give the opponent a glimmer of I think we can and then give the opponent a look of, we know we can.

Ben has 12 INTs and 6 fumblers in 11 games. giving up the ball 18 times in 11 games........... has to end.
especially Red Zone turnovers.

Teams heading to the playoffs...... and those who will be looking to land a bye have QB's who have not been turning the ball over

Brees 5
Rivers 8
Brady 11

Goff 12
Trubisky 13
Newton 13
Wentz 13
R. Wilson 14
Prescott 14
Luck 15
Cousins 15
Watson 17
Mahomes 17
Ben 18

If there is one common theme in our losses and in our playoff failures........
It has been mostly turnovers that derails this team.
Before most every game, I say to myself or anyone I am watching the game with.
If we do not turn over the ball.................we will win Period.

Needs to end.
"Tomlin has never appreciated the role of scheme and play call in the ability for player's to execute" Kodiak.
viewtopic.php?f=2&t=23975

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DP39
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Post by DP39 » Wed Nov 28, 2018 2:55 pm

Stosh-67 wrote:Turning our 15 year vet, HOF QB into a RPO quarterback in goal line situations at this point of his career is head scratching, considering.

-We shied away from Ben running the ball for 5+ years
-We would be putting our franchise in less than ideal situations to really get drilled in open field situations in which the QB is clearly a runner and not intent on going down with a feet first slide.
-His injury history or getting banged up.

More importantly, if we were to start incorporating the RPO into our game................we need to work on it and practice it. It is a difficult, fast read and react play that needs everyone on the same page.
-We take a day off every Wednesday, a day we can work on communication for these RPO situations, to not run into one another, to practice these quick read, quick pass, bang bang plays that we have now resorted to.
-We have more than enough options at getting the ball into the endzone.
-A top 5, top 2 OL that has shown success at creating running room with TD runs this year.
-A RB in Conner, who has shown a knack for running the ball into the endzone.
-A hammer of a FB in Nix.
-A FB in Nix that can also get out or slide thru as a passing option.
-Two big TE's to create height mismatches with DB's or LB's
-AB
-JuJu
-Bens ability to roll out, extend a play if the first look is not there.
-His ability to roll right while a RB, A TE and a WR roll with him....one short, one middle, one at the back of the endzone.

We still use very little to none..motion or miss-direction in these situations.
Nothing to get the defensive players moving, shifting, barking out signals or trying to communicate with one another. Nothing to get them thinking or nervous pre-snap.
Three downs, three formations almost the same. No variety, no deception, no creativity........and we were the team that looked clumsy, on different pages, un-prepared and un-practiced in the biggest moment of the game.

Have we not learned from last years Pats ending debacle ............what clumsy, un-prepeared, un-practiced and not on the same page looks like.
Well we have not learned anything and we are still not ready for these moments.

We got lucky with the RPO vs. the Jags. Luckly Ben did not collide harder with Feiler on his dive to the endzone. Lucky he did not cough it up.

We need to rely on at least 4 things, scheme, repetition, skill and execution in these moments.
To me, we are failing on the the first two items, scheme and repetition ( Monday - thru Saturday ), which is diminishing our top level skills and making it more difficult to execute.

Who is going to take charge and say enough is enough.
It starts in practice. Every available day of practice to demand perfection.
To improve communication so we are not burning time outs. 4 wasted time outs in the last two games because of communication is unexceptable.
Communication is ironed out and practiced during the week, so we are prepared for game situations that may arise.

The one thing that needs to end is the turnovers.
They killed that game. Killed momentum.
Turnovers are usually the only way an inferior team can stay in the game, give the opponent a glimmer of I think we can and then give the opponent a look of, we know we can.

Ben has 12 INTs and 6 fumblers in 11 games. giving up the ball 18 times in 11 games........... has to end.
especially Red Zone turnovers.

Teams heading to the playoffs...... and those who will be looking to land a bye have QB's who have not been turning the ball over

Brees 5
Rivers 8
Brady 11

Goff 12
Trubisky 13
Newton 13
Wentz 13
R. Wilson 14
Prescott 14
Luck 15
Cousins 15
Watson 17
Mahomes 17
Ben 18

If there is one common theme in our losses and in our playoff failures........
It has been mostly turnovers that derails this team.
Before most every game, I say to myself or anyone I am watching the game with.
If we do not turn over the ball.................we will win Period.

Needs to end.

Great post Stosh!

The crazy part about that list is that Ben has the best O line of all of them...and is one of the most seasoned! Also, that list doenst include Ben's turnovers that have been bailed out by opposing team penalties. Not sure the total, but I gotta think there would be another 3-4 at least on there.

I'm so tired of people saying anything they can to absolve Ben of these things they he is DIRECTLY responsible for. It's getting absurd. I love what Ben can do with his god given talents, but all I've ever wanted (and have bitched about for years now - with others saying "I'm not around him, I don't know what he does" - or "it's not his fault") was for him to work that much harder (like Brees and Rivers for example) to be THE BEST he can possibly be. I don't see him doing that - to the extent he can.

I will add, as I did in another thread, something is recently going on with AB! He is either....
1. playing hurt
2. playing frustrated and not giving it his all
3. pissed off because JuJu is getting closer to be being the #1 WR
4. letting his personal problem effect his level of play OR
5. pacing bets against the Steelers (or to cover).
He seemed to be just off slightly on many occasions....almost like he was throwing the game in very, very subtle ways.

My gut tells me it's a combo of things, but mostly he's butt-hurt over the attention JuJu is getting from Ben (and JuJu's positive brand/image growing - while his isn't as much).

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Post by jewelsongs » Wed Nov 28, 2018 3:22 pm

Stosh-67 wrote:Turning our 15 year vet, HOF QB into a RPO quarterback in goal line situations at this point of his career is head scratching, considering.

-We shied away from Ben running the ball for 5+ years
-We would be putting our franchise in less than ideal situations to really get drilled in open field situations in which the QB is clearly a runner and not intent on going down with a feet first slide.
-His injury history or getting banged up.

More importantly, if we were to start incorporating the RPO into our game................we need to work on it and practice it. It is a difficult, fast read and react play that needs everyone on the same page.
-We take a day off every Wednesday, a day we can work on communication for these RPO situations, to not run into one another, to practice these quick read, quick pass, bang bang plays that we have now resorted to.
-We have more than enough options at getting the ball into the endzone.
-A top 5, top 2 OL that has shown success at creating running room with TD runs this year.
-A RB in Conner, who has shown a knack for running the ball into the endzone.
-A hammer of a FB in Nix.
-A FB in Nix that can also get out or slide thru as a passing option.
-Two big TE's to create height mismatches with DB's or LB's
-AB
-JuJu
-Bens ability to roll out, extend a play if the first look is not there.
-His ability to roll right while a RB, A TE and a WR roll with him....one short, one middle, one at the back of the endzone.

We still use very little to none..motion or miss-direction in these situations.
Nothing to get the defensive players moving, shifting, barking out signals or trying to communicate with one another. Nothing to get them thinking or nervous pre-snap.
Three downs, three formations almost the same. No variety, no deception, no creativity........and we were the team that looked clumsy, on different pages, un-prepared and un-practiced in the biggest moment of the game.

Have we not learned from last years Pats ending debacle ............what clumsy, un-prepeared, un-practiced and not on the same page looks like.
Well we have not learned anything and we are still not ready for these moments.

We got lucky with the RPO vs. the Jags. Luckly Ben did not collide harder with Feiler on his dive to the endzone. Lucky he did not cough it up.

We need to rely on at least 4 things, scheme, repetition, skill and execution in these moments.
To me, we are failing on the the first two items, scheme and repetition ( Monday - thru Saturday ), which is diminishing our top level skills and making it more difficult to execute.

Who is going to take charge and say enough is enough.
It starts in practice. Every available day of practice to demand perfection.
To improve communication so we are not burning time outs. 4 wasted time outs in the last two games because of communication is unexceptable.
Communication is ironed out and practiced during the week, so we are prepared for game situations that may arise.

The one thing that needs to end is the turnovers.
They killed that game. Killed momentum.
Turnovers are usually the only way an inferior team can stay in the game, give the opponent a glimmer of I think we can and then give the opponent a look of, we know we can.

Ben has 12 INTs and 6 fumblers in 11 games. giving up the ball 18 times in 11 games........... has to end.
especially Red Zone turnovers.

Teams heading to the playoffs...... and those who will be looking to land a bye have QB's who have not been turning the ball over

Brees 5
Rivers 8
Brady 11

Goff 12
Trubisky 13
Newton 13
Wentz 13
R. Wilson 14
Prescott 14
Luck 15
Cousins 15
Watson 17
Mahomes 17
Ben 18

If there is one common theme in our losses and in our playoff failures........
It has been mostly turnovers that derails this team.
Before most every game, I say to myself or anyone I am watching the game with.
If we do not turn over the ball.................we will win Period.

Needs to end.


Exactly right.

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Post by Havoc » Wed Nov 28, 2018 3:38 pm

Is RPO our best option in that situation? I do not believe so.

Spread the defense out 4 or 5 wide including a rub route. Let Ben run thru his progressions. If noone is open Ben can buy time and decent chance someone will break free. Give Ben and the offense 4 shots at this... puts a ton of pressure on their defense to cover for 4 downs with Ben scrambling and buying time when needed.

RPO was designed to go to the congested middle of the field where we were not going to be able to run on them most likely anyway. And if we throw, we are throwing into the congested middle of the field. I don't believe we put Ben and the offense in optimal position to succeed on that series.

I think we did the Broncos defense a huge favor.
Throw. The. Football. On. First. Down.

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Post by Legacy User » Wed Nov 28, 2018 3:42 pm

It's never Ben's fault.

Guy is a victim on every one of his int's.

Poor guy.

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Post by LakecrestSteeler » Wed Nov 28, 2018 3:47 pm

seabs926 wrote:
jebrick wrote:If the NT did not get it the CB covering AB would have had it. He was already cutting in front of AB when the pass is intercepted. A soft toss like that was as good as a wounded duck ball when the LOS is the 2.

Lakecrest's point is that if AB stays on his original path then the CB can't cut in front of him, which is true. This is ignoring the NT dropping into the passing lane, I can believe that was a fluke that he was in that position though.


Exactly. I was ignoring the NT. Agree with most of the posts that it was dead the moment of the bad snap and even when the play was getting transmitted to the green dot.

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Post by jeemie » Wed Nov 28, 2018 3:55 pm

Stosh-67 wrote:Turning our 15 year vet, HOF QB into a RPO quarterback in goal line situations at this point of his career is head scratching, considering.

-We shied away from Ben running the ball for 5+ years
-We would be putting our franchise in less than ideal situations to really get drilled in open field situations in which the QB is clearly a runner and not intent on going down with a feet first slide.
-His injury history or getting banged up.

More importantly, if we were to start incorporating the RPO into our game................we need to work on it and practice it. It is a difficult, fast read and react play that needs everyone on the same page.
-We take a day off every Wednesday, a day we can work on communication for these RPO situations, to not run into one another, to practice these quick read, quick pass, bang bang plays that we have now resorted to.
-We have more than enough options at getting the ball into the endzone.
-A top 5, top 2 OL that has shown success at creating running room with TD runs this year.
-A RB in Conner, who has shown a knack for running the ball into the endzone.
-A hammer of a FB in Nix.
-A FB in Nix that can also get out or slide thru as a passing option.
-Two big TE's to create height mismatches with DB's or LB's
-AB
-JuJu
-Bens ability to roll out, extend a play if the first look is not there.
-His ability to roll right while a RB, A TE and a WR roll with him....one short, one middle, one at the back of the endzone.

We still use very little to none..motion or miss-direction in these situations.
Nothing to get the defensive players moving, shifting, barking out signals or trying to communicate with one another. Nothing to get them thinking or nervous pre-snap.
Three downs, three formations almost the same. No variety, no deception, no creativity........and we were the team that looked clumsy, on different pages, un-prepared and un-practiced in the biggest moment of the game.

Have we not learned from last years Pats ending debacle ............what clumsy, un-prepeared, un-practiced and not on the same page looks like.
Well we have not learned anything and we are still not ready for these moments.

We got lucky with the RPO vs. the Jags. Luckly Ben did not collide harder with Feiler on his dive to the endzone. Lucky he did not cough it up.

We need to rely on at least 4 things, scheme, repetition, skill and execution in these moments.
To me, we are failing on the the first two items, scheme and repetition ( Monday - thru Saturday ), which is diminishing our top level skills and making it more difficult to execute.

Who is going to take charge and say enough is enough.
It starts in practice. Every available day of practice to demand perfection.
To improve communication so we are not burning time outs. 4 wasted time outs in the last two games because of communication is unexceptable.
Communication is ironed out and practiced during the week, so we are prepared for game situations that may arise.

The one thing that needs to end is the turnovers.
They killed that game. Killed momentum.
Turnovers are usually the only way an inferior team can stay in the game, give the opponent a glimmer of I think we can and then give the opponent a look of, we know we can.

Ben has 12 INTs and 6 fumblers in 11 games. giving up the ball 18 times in 11 games........... has to end.
especially Red Zone turnovers.

Teams heading to the playoffs...... and those who will be looking to land a bye have QB's who have not been turning the ball over

Brees 5
Rivers 8
Brady 11

Goff 12
Trubisky 13
Newton 13
Wentz 13
R. Wilson 14
Prescott 14
Luck 15
Cousins 15
Watson 17
Mahomes 17
Ben 18

If there is one common theme in our losses and in our playoff failures........
It has been mostly turnovers that derails this team.
Before most every game, I say to myself or anyone I am watching the game with.
If we do not turn over the ball.................we will win Period.

Needs to end.


Why are you acting like we just started doing RPO and haven’t been practicing it?

We have been doing it all year long from all parts of the field...the debate is whether it’s the best thing to do at the goal line where the field is more compact.

Are we really now going to blame Ben screwing up on the coaches again?

Why can’t anyone simply say “BEN FUCKED UP” WITHOUT ADDING ANY “But Brown...” “But Conner” “But Fichtner” “But Tomlin” onto it.

JESUS! Ben got a low snap and then bumped into Conner.

AT THAT POINT THE PLAY WAS DEAD. Ben had ONE CORRECT OPTION LEFT...eat the ball or fall forward if possible and live to fight on fourth down.

HE chose to throw an off balance blind pass into the middle of the field.

It wasn’t Brown’s fault.
It wasn’t Conner’s fault.
It wasn’t Pouncey’s fault.
It wasn’t Fichtner’s fault.
It wasn’t Tomlin’s fault.

It was BEN’S FAULT...PERIOD. END OF STORY.

Come on...you can say it...it doesn’t require a wall of text.
“Yeah we suck, be there is a chance we could suck slightly more if we try to correct the problem.” - Art Deuce (summarized by SteelPerch)

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Post by LakecrestSteeler » Wed Nov 28, 2018 4:07 pm

Jeemie wrote:Dude... Stop.

Just stop.

Ben lost his key with the bad snap and running into Connor. Then he threw blindly into the middle of the field.

The interception is his fault and his fault alone.

Stop making excuses for a 15-year veteran. Ben should know better. End of story.


Jeemie...I am not making excuses, just trying to point out the awful play from start to finish. It probably needs to be scrapped altogether. Of course he threw the ball, but if a drag was supposed to be run, or the combo(#7 & #84) missed reads it is a whole other conversation, and not about turnovers.

Also the Steelers need to look at this play and situations like this. Why is Ben faltering? If it is a trend then quit putting him in these situations with poor play design and split second analysis on BS RPO calls at the 3 yard line. There is no imagination in this play as is evidenced by every and I mean every man being accounted for by Denver.

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Post by LakecrestSteeler » Wed Nov 28, 2018 4:11 pm

Joey's Pitbull wrote:Is this the ALL-22 that you clipped from? Either way that is a lot of work.

Too bad there is no easy way to make these as gifs.

I have no dog in the fight but its cool to at least argue about clips. {So many things went wrong I am more frustrated about this game than the beatdown against the Ravens}.

I give you credit for doing the work.


I do have the all 22, but this is just the broadcast from GamePass and screen shots from the iPhone. It would be nice to do GIfs, but that is another level and I am not even sure they work in the posts. I know how to make them, but they don’t seem to work with IMG or URL.

The screenshots do take it out of context.

But I have no dog either.

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Post by Louis Lipps Service » Wed Nov 28, 2018 4:13 pm

People need to understand that Ben can be great, a Hall of Famer, a Champion, appreciated by the fanbase while ALSO having flaws.

It's not an either/or thing.

Someone saying "Ben fucked that up" isn't commentary that he sucks, we're better without him, or that anyone is going to be happy when he's gone.

It just means he fucked that particular play up and contributed to the loss.

My biggest annoyance with messages boards, the internet, and hell, probably the world right now, is that everything is either/or. If you say something that isn't positive about something, that means you hate it and want to see it fail. Say something positive, then you must love it and want to defend it with every fiber of your being.

I'm soooo, unbelievably tired of that mindset. Not just in sports. But in every arena of the world right now, be it sports, politics, whatever. It's not solving anything, and only creates more and more friction in a world that's about to pop like a balloon because of it.

I wish everyone would make a personal rule, once per day, where they'd just admit being wrong about something. Something major, maybe something minor. Doesn't matter. But just to be able to look at an argument and tell the other person "You know what? You're right.". Man, that'd be so refreshing....

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Post by LakecrestSteeler » Wed Nov 28, 2018 4:17 pm

Jeemie wrote:Also, if you watch the play live instead of using screenshots, which never tell the whole story, you’ll see that if Brown had done a drag route he would have smacked into the defender AV was driving into his path...no way could he have put that guy on his right hip.


I did watch the video obviously to get these screen shots.

Disagree wholeheartedly about AV pushing his guy back. AV did push his guy back, but AB certainly could have rubbed that guy and continued with a drag route.

Again not defending Ben....I admitted it was a teaser thread title, but perhaps a drag route was supposed to be run. The timing says AB would have probably collided with the nose tackle about the same time the ball got there. I think.

The screen shots do take it completely out of context, but until the board gets a gif make, that is what we have. And showing the video does nothing, unless you watch it about 40 times, and even then you don’t have all the answers.

He probably should have spiked it the moment the snap was screwed. Roy McAvoy again!

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jeemie
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Post by jeemie » Wed Nov 28, 2018 4:28 pm

I disagree the play design was bad.

Every player on third down WASN’T accounted for.

Connor would have scored on an inside trap run had the execution been what it needed to be. It was all blocked up. In fact, Ben should have actually run the ball behind Connor once the play WAS fucked up....he would have made yardage and possibly snuck through and scored.

Just like on first down Connor would have walked in on a sweep...Steelers had a clear numbers advantage (although Ben’s read showed he also had JuJu in a one on one matchup on the fade so I understand his temptation to go that way...personally I think a run is a better chance than a fade, but hey...)

Second down was a crapshoot...hard to run against but if the backside wasn’t disrupted causing Decastro to arrive late on his pull, Connor gets to the outside and scores. I’m softening on that one as regarding Ben’s read.

So there were options on all three plays...on all three plays execution did them in.

Steelers have been executing RPO very well all season...except at the goal line.

So maybe there good old power sets or spread are probably better options.

But the play designs themselves are good. The three plays actually fed off one another pretty well, scheme-wise.
“Yeah we suck, be there is a chance we could suck slightly more if we try to correct the problem.” - Art Deuce (summarized by SteelPerch)

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Post by bradshaw2ben » Wed Nov 28, 2018 4:33 pm

First off, an RPO is not about the QB running. It's basically a run play where the QB has the option to pass instead, without having to change the play with an audible.

secondly the bottom of your list, talking about how QB whose teams are in position to get a bye don't turn it over:

Watson 17
Mahomes 17
Ben 18


Are all three guys whose teams are in contention to get a bye.
“We are the stupidest fucking franchise ever.” — Smithessmokin

Stillchest
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Post by Stillchest » Wed Nov 28, 2018 4:33 pm

Louis Lipps Service wrote:People need to understand that Ben can be great, a Hall of Famer, a Champion, appreciated by the fanbase while ALSO having flaws.

It's not an either/or thing.

Someone saying "Ben fucked that up" isn't commentary that he sucks, we're better without him, or that anyone is going to be happy when he's gone.

It just means he fucked that particular play up and contributed to the loss.

My biggest annoyance with messages boards, the internet, and hell, probably the world right now, is that everything is either/or. If you say something that isn't positive about something, that means you hate it and want to see it fail. Say something positive, then you must love it and want to defend it with every fiber of your being.

I'm soooo, unbelievably tired of that mindset. Not just in sports. But in every arena of the world right now, be it sports, politics, whatever. It's not solving anything, and only creates more and more friction in a world that's about to pop like a balloon because of it.

I wish everyone would make a personal rule, once per day, where they'd just admit being wrong about something. Something major, maybe something minor. Doesn't matter. But just to be able to look at an argument and tell the other person "You know what? You're right.". Man, that'd be so refreshing....


GREAT post!!! The Best post, I’ve read today.

It shouldn’t be that difficult to admit you’re mistaken, but for people who exhibit narcissistic behavior, that sort of resolution is not within their mental makeup. It’s quite obvious, who those posters are.

Sadly pathetic.

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DP39
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Post by DP39 » Wed Nov 28, 2018 4:50 pm

bradshaw2ben wrote:First off, an RPO is not about the QB running. It's basically a run play where the QB has the option to pass instead, without having to change the play with an audible.

secondly the bottom of your list, talking about how QB whose teams are in position to get a bye don't turn it over:

Watson 17
Mahomes 17
Ben 18


Are all three guys whose teams are in contention to get a bye.

Which one of those QBs doesn't fit?

I'll give you a hint.....he hasn't been on a ROOKIE contract for a decade!

I'll give you another hint....he has the best O line/protection on the (complete) list!

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Post by Legacy User » Wed Nov 28, 2018 4:58 pm

Yeah you make a good case, lakecrest.

I would say the Steelers tell on that plane is the interior trickery.broncos were clearly gassing interior play at some sort of possibly the shuttle screen they used with juju again.

Easy to Monday morning quarterback but it looks like from hell that play unfolded they should’ve gone flag fade route or a screen on the outside or get the fat boys out there and just punched in straightahead numerous times if need be

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Post by Legacy User » Wed Nov 28, 2018 4:59 pm

Great work Stosh. Lot of substance you outlined.
I dont know about separation because I dont have the All 22 but Ben used to be able to look off a safety and do a hard pump fake to create some room.

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Post by R_S » Wed Nov 28, 2018 5:25 pm

Sounds a hell of a lot like the excuse Ben gave on his radio show. AB didn't run the right route. The only problem is, the ball never even got to AB before it was picked off! Ben is a dickhead. Helluva QB, but a tone deaf dickhead.

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Post by Stillchest » Wed Nov 28, 2018 5:35 pm

R S wrote:Sounds a hell of a lot like the excuse Ben gave on his radio show. AB didn't run the right route. The only problem is, the ball never even got to AB before it was picked off! Ben is a dickhead. Helluva QB, but a tone deaf dickhead.


Since you brought it up, instead of paraphrasing what you choose, please, finish stating the rest of what Ben said on his radio show.

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Post by R_S » Wed Nov 28, 2018 5:36 pm

Stillchest wrote:
R S wrote:Sounds a hell of a lot like the excuse Ben gave on his radio show. AB didn't run the right route. The only problem is, the ball never even got to AB before it was picked off! Ben is a dickhead. Helluva QB, but a tone deaf dickhead.


Since you brought it up, instead of paraphrasing what you choose, please, finish stating the rest of what Ben said on his radio show.


Hold on, i'll post the entire transcript.....

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Post by jeemie » Wed Nov 28, 2018 5:51 pm

it's still yggy wrote:Yeah you make a good case, lakecrest.

I would say the Steelers tell on that plane is the interior trickery.broncos were clearly gassing interior play at some sort of possibly the shuttle screen they used with juju again.

Easy to Monday morning quarterback but it looks like from hell that play unfolded they should’ve gone flag fade route or a screen on the outside or get the fat boys out there and just punched in straightahead numerous times if need be


First play the pass option was an outside fade to JuJu that Ben overthrew. JuJu was “NFL open” on the play but the less risky call would have been the outside sweep to Conner who would have waltzed into the EZ.

Second play the main option was a slant to JuJu. JuJu won the slant but another DB stayed home so Ben handed off to Conner for another sweep. This time backside penetration delayed Decastro’s arrival at the POA and Conner had to/chose to cut inside instead of outside...had he gotten outside, the sweep might still work. But Denver had more defenders bunched in to stop the run to the left, so Romo was right...it was a harder set to run against.

Third play the main option was a Brown slant this time with the run option being an inside trap run.

That run was there, and actually instead of throwing the ball, since the play was screwed up Ben should have simply run behind Conner...he might make it in.

Had the snap been good, Ben may very well have handed off to Conner again.

But the plays actually built well off one another...combo of poor reads/execution killed them.

Obviously, the solution going forward is to simplify things at the goal line. RPO just doesn’t seem to be working there.

But when things go south, Ben has to stop forcing things. Extend? Yes, if he can. But when the play is collapsing and there’s no time to extend...just do something safe with the football.

I don’t see where Ben needs to give up any “gunslinging tendencies” by being just a little smarter, especially in a situation where the only difference between winning and losing is a turnover.

A sack on 3rd down on Sunday was a completely acceptable outcome...I expect a 15-year veteran to understand this.

I don’t believe this is an unreasonable expectation.
“Yeah we suck, be there is a chance we could suck slightly more if we try to correct the problem.” - Art Deuce (summarized by SteelPerch)

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