Slot CB, life without Mike Hilton....

[Scunge]

I had posted in a topic a couple week back about how I thought the defense could evolve WITHOUT Mike Hilton. My theory or opinion was that we had substandard play with our ILBs in coverage and we didn't trust our front seven to do their jobs. No, the Steelers were hedging their bets and using Mike Hilton as a crutch to help in run blitzes, to help with the pass rush, blitzing him often as that 5th defender.

And yeah, Hilton took advantage of the role crafted for him and made some plays and was able to cash in with a big contract with the Bengals. Many hand wringing over the offseason, how would we replace him? Who was the next slot CB? How can we ever find another Hilton?

Well, maybe the answer was that we don't need to replace him. Maybe that role, that position as defined by Hilton was actually a crutch and holding this defense back. For every big play that Hilton made, I feel like there were two bad plays where we got burned for a big play on those blitzes.

Chris Simms did a video yesterday that sort of better explains all of this. He goes into detail how the Steelers were able to use a 4 man rush and drop 7 into coverage and only blitzed something like twice the whole game against Buffalo.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wF6UpPhQFEo

If we have two great pass rushers in Cam and Tuitt and we have a trio of great pass rushers in Watt, Highsmith and Ingram, and two competent coverage ILBs with Bush and Schobert, why not just use a 4 man rush and drop 7 into coverage? Why not have multiple solutions to the slot CB role? Norwood, Pierre, Sutton, Maulet, Fitz, and soon Joseph and Witherspoon, why not use combinations and mix coverages and personel from week to week in filling that slot CB role, tailoring the game plan to a specific offense and specific QB? All of that can breed unpredictability and confusion and leave offenses (QBs) guessing, and isn't that what we want? I feel like we were in a rut with Hilton, and the defense was becoming formulaic and easily defeated in crunch time.

Hilton moving on may have been the best thing for this defense. It forced Butler and Tomlin (and Teryl Austin, can't help but feel he has major input in this) to grow this defense, for themselves to grow and evolve as designers of this defense.

[Ice]

Don't have the info in front of me, but once OLB and ILB were decimated by injury last season, the slot CB hero play and blitzing in general became a lot more necessary.

[K_C_]

Obviously we all loved what we saw from the pass rush and getting pressure on Allen without blitzing is likely the main reason the Steelers emerged victorious.

…..but we’ve only played one game.

Hilton’s effectiveness blitzing was a major weapon and the dude routinely made big plays and big stops.

Maybe the defense won’t miss him but I’m going to need a larger sample size than one game before I buy in, especially with a Raiders team coming in Tomlin always has major problems with.

As great as the defense played, there are going to be games where we struggle to get pressure just sending 4. That’s when Hilton shined brightest. I want to see how our defense looks in those games where blitzing becomes necessary to create pressure and we’ll definitely see some of those games this season.

[LakecrestSteeler]

I had posted in a topic a couple week back about how I thought the defense could evolve WITHOUT Mike Hilton. My theory or opinion was that we had substandard play with our ILBs in coverage and we didn't trust our front seven to do their jobs. No, the Steelers were hedging their bets and using Mike Hilton as a crutch to help in run blitzes, to help with the pass rush, blitzing him often as that 5th defender.

And yeah, Hilton took advantage of the role crafted for him and made some plays and was able to cash in with a big contract with the Bengals. Many hand wringing over the offseason, how would we replace him? Who was the next slot CB? How can we ever find another Hilton?

Well, maybe the answer was that we don't need to replace him. Maybe that role, that position as defined by Hilton was actually a crutch and holding this defense back. For every big play that Hilton made, I feel like there were two bad plays where we got burned for a big play on those blitzes.

Chris Simms did a video yesterday that sort of better explains all of this. He goes into detail how the Steelers were able to use a 4 man rush and drop 7 into coverage and only blitzed something like twice the whole game against Buffalo.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wF6UpPhQFEo

If we have two great pass rushers in Cam and Tuitt and we have a trio of great pass rushers in Watt, Highsmith and Ingram, and two competent coverage ILBs with Bush and Schobert, why not just use a 4 man rush and drop 7 into coverage? Why not have multiple solutions to the slot CB role? Norwood, Pierre, Sutton, Maulet, Fitz, and soon Joseph and Witherspoon, why not use combinations and mix coverages and personel from week to week in filling that slot CB role, tailoring the game plan to a specific offense and specific QB? All of that can breed unpredictability and confusion and leave offenses (QBs) guessing, and isn't that what we want? I feel like we were in a rut with Hilton, and the defense was becoming formulaic and easily defeated in crunch time.

Hilton moving on may have been the best thing for this defense. It forced Butler and Tomlin (and Teryl Austin, can't help but feel he has major input in this) to grow this defense, for themselves to grow and evolve as designers of this defense.

This makes sense to me. Knew trust was a factor with IMLBs when Bush went down. Hilton is how it manifested itself. I am sure there is a similar example on the d-line too with gap control versus the forward pressure mix.

One potential pitfall of the game on Sunday was the luck factor. I felt we had many things bounce our way. Maybe we created the luck. One sparrow does not make the spring.

Luck?:
Pierre basket breaker.
Missed long ball by Allen
Holding calls…will we ever get that many again.
Sutton last second punch out on the side line pass.
Shitty fourth down lateral call.
-nearly zero Steeler offensive line penalties

There were some bounces that went Buffalo’s way too.
-Watt was literally one inch away from a 2nd strip sack, instead of just a sack.
-The hold on Watt that allowed a big pass from Allen.
-a hold or two that the Buffalo CBs got away with.

Could we see Sutton do more Mike Hilton things if luck was a bigger factor? I think Sutton blitzes can still be expected when the front five are not hitting home.

[bradshaw2ben]

Joe Schoebert was basically invisible in coverage Sunday... which is amazing, considering they had him all over the place and covering WRs and whatnot. His abilities in coverage allowed Bush to make more plays along the line and DB did a great job in the flats. After calling for Bush to move to the Buck for more than a year, I could cry seeing it happen on the field.

[zeke5123]

The reason why you get great pass rushers is that they can get home without blitzing. Indeed, they might be able to get home even better without blitzing because the ball always travels faster than the man (i.e., if a good QB can sniff out a blitz he often can find the open receiver quickly; it is harder to find an open man quickly if there are seven in coverage).

I don't have statistical proof for it, but it also seems logical that blitzing less makes blitzing more effective because there is a surprise element to it. Not saying we should only blitz twice a game, but probably only blitz about 4-6 times a game (and mix it up on 2nd and 3rd downs).

[zeke5123]

Obviously we all loved what we saw from the pass rush and getting pressure on Allen without blitzing is likely the main reason the Steelers emerged victorious.

…..but we’ve only played one game.

Hilton’s effectiveness blitzing was a major weapon and the dude routinely made big plays and big stops.

Maybe the defense won’t miss him but I’m going to need a larger sample size than one game before I buy in, especially with a Raiders team coming in Tomlin always has major problems with.

As great as the defense played, there are going to be games where we struggle to get pressure just sending 4. That’s when Hilton shined brightest. I want to see how our defense looks in those games where blitzing becomes necessary to create pressure and we’ll definitely see some of those games this season.

On one hand, one game is one game. On the other hand, Watt is a fantastic pass rusher. Heyward is a fantastic pass rusher. Tuitt is a great pass rusher. Highsmith has shown a lot of promise. Ingram, when healthy, was a great pass rusher. There is every reason to believe that a team with at least 4 great pass rushers can generally get home with 4 great pass rushers. That is, it isn't the result of one game but knowing the players that would fit in the scheme.

I agree with Scunge's post -- I thought Hilton made a lot of visible plays near the LOS, but the scheme that enabled Hilton to be good came at the expense of leaving some gapping holes that a good QB takes advantage of.

[K_C_]

Obviously we all loved what we saw from the pass rush and getting pressure on Allen without blitzing is likely the main reason the Steelers emerged victorious.

…..but we’ve only played one game.

Hilton’s effectiveness blitzing was a major weapon and the dude routinely made big plays and big stops.

Maybe the defense won’t miss him but I’m going to need a larger sample size than one game before I buy in, especially with a Raiders team coming in Tomlin always has major problems with.

As great as the defense played, there are going to be games where we struggle to get pressure just sending 4. That’s when Hilton shined brightest. I want to see how our defense looks in those games where blitzing becomes necessary to create pressure and we’ll definitely see some of those games this season.

On one hand, one game is one game. On the other hand, Watt is a fantastic pass rusher. Heyward is a fantastic pass rusher. Tuitt is a great pass rusher. Highsmith has shown a lot of promise. Ingram, when healthy, was a great pass rusher. There is every reason to believe that a team with at least 4 great pass rushers can generally get home with 4 great pass rushers. That is, it isn't the result of one game but knowing the players that would fit in the scheme.

I agree with Scunge's post -- I thought Hilton made a lot of visible plays near the LOS, but the scheme that enabled Hilton to be good came at the expense of leaving some gapping holes that a good QB takes advantage of.

All those guys you mentioned except Ingram were on the roster last season yet down the stretch, we had difficulty in some games generating pressure with just 4. The Redskins and Browns playoff games (where I’m not even sure Baker got touched for 4 quarters) come to mind.

Again we have some outstanding pass rushers for sure but there will be games where blitzing is necessary, whether that blitz is coming from guys like Devin Bush on the interior or Cam Sutton on the edge, it’s gonna happen.

It’s then we’ll find out if we’ll miss Hilton at all or not. After 1 game the jury most definitely remains out.

[Deebo]

Joe Schoebert was basically invisible in coverage Sunday... which is amazing, considering they had him all over the place and covering WRs and whatnot. His abilities in coverage allowed Bush to make more plays along the line and DB did a great job in the flats. After calling for Bush to move to the Buck for more than a year, I could cry seeing it happen on the field.

I made that same comment: I didn't notice Schoebert at all. Maybe that's a good thing

[zeke5123]

Obviously we all loved what we saw from the pass rush and getting pressure on Allen without blitzing is likely the main reason the Steelers emerged victorious.

…..but we’ve only played one game.

Hilton’s effectiveness blitzing was a major weapon and the dude routinely made big plays and big stops.

Maybe the defense won’t miss him but I’m going to need a larger sample size than one game before I buy in, especially with a Raiders team coming in Tomlin always has major problems with.

As great as the defense played, there are going to be games where we struggle to get pressure just sending 4. That’s when Hilton shined brightest. I want to see how our defense looks in those games where blitzing becomes necessary to create pressure and we’ll definitely see some of those games this season.

On one hand, one game is one game. On the other hand, Watt is a fantastic pass rusher. Heyward is a fantastic pass rusher. Tuitt is a great pass rusher. Highsmith has shown a lot of promise. Ingram, when healthy, was a great pass rusher. There is every reason to believe that a team with at least 4 great pass rushers can generally get home with 4 great pass rushers. That is, it isn't the result of one game but knowing the players that would fit in the scheme.

I agree with Scunge's post -- I thought Hilton made a lot of visible plays near the LOS, but the scheme that enabled Hilton to be good came at the expense of leaving some gapping holes that a good QB takes advantage of.

All those guys you mentioned except Ingram were on the roster last season yet down the stretch, we had difficulty in some games generating pressure with just 4. The Redskins and Browns playoff games (where I’m not even sure Baker got touched for 4 quarters) come to mind.

Again we have some outstanding pass rushers for sure but there will be games where blitzing is necessary, whether that blitz is coming from guys like Devin Bush on the interior or Cam Sutton on the edge, it’s gonna happen.

It’s then we’ll find out if we’ll miss Hilton at all or not. After 1 game the jury most definitely remains out.

Two points:

1. We blitzed a lot last year. My claim is that heavy blitzing makes it actually harder to get to a QB because the QB can easily get rid of the football. Thus, the claim we didn't get home with four last year doesn't hold too much water since we were blitzing a lot and asking Robert Spillane to try to stick with Landry in the slot. Stated differently, our problems last year was that coverage sucked so we blitzed to try to masquerade our problems with coverage but once a QB identified the blitz we exacerbated the coverage problem. I think we fixed the coverage problem (in part by letting Hilton go). But even if we didn't, we aren't exacerbating it by blitzing so much.

2. If Game 1 is any indication, Tomlin is going to rotate starters so that guys like Heyward and Watt are fresher later in the season. If Tuitt comes back healthy, he should be really fresh missing the first six weeks.

[Stosh-67]

All those guys you mentioned except Ingram were on the roster last season yet down the stretch, we had difficulty in some games generating pressure with just 4. The Redskins and Browns playoff games (where I’m not even sure Baker got touched for 4 quarters) come to mind.

Big problem down the strech was our 4 best pass rushers were playing way too many snaps.
Gassed.
If I remember some game day discussion threads that were really down on Cams play.
All those snaps resulted in some pretty poor run defense.

Getting shreaded by the run, play after play after play........ is one of the most depressing and demoralizing things in the World.
Yup...I said world.
Allows the offense to do almost anything...including creating wide open pass catchers.

Snap percentage, last 5 games of 2020, including the playoff game.

Cam -89%, 93, 85, 89, 84, 88
Tuit -75, 72, 88, 75, 84, 79
Watt- 94, 93, 85, 95, 93, 90
Highsm- 83,91,95,84, 97

Those guys snap % on Sunday

Cam - 66%
Watt - 81%
AH - 54%

Ingram - 64%

I would assume that Tuit would have also been in the 60-65% range.

I hope Cams request for less snaps and the overall lower snap percentage on Sunday was an awawekning for this stay that they need to keep the front 7 fresh, need to rotate, need the back up DL to play more, need to limit Ingrams snaps the most of the 3 OLB ( age and injury history ), get a 4th OLB some snaps, etc.

I am hoping the theory on the lower snap percentages was "NOT"..... that it was the first game of the season, and for Watt, he did not play any P.S. games, etc......and that it will be best for this team come 4th quarters, the final strech, the playoffs.

[DP39]

All those guys you mentioned except Ingram were on the roster last season yet down the stretch, we had difficulty in some games generating pressure with just 4. The Redskins and Browns playoff games (where I’m not even sure Baker got touched for 4 quarters) come to mind.

Big problem down the strech was our 4 best pass rushers were playing way too many snaps.
Gassed.
If I remember some game day discussion threads that were really down on Cams play.
All those snaps resulted in some pretty poor run defense.

Getting shreaded by the run, play after play after play........ is one of the most depressing and demoralizing things in the World.
Yup...I said world.
Allows the offense to do almost anything...including creating wide open pass catchers.

Snap percentage, last 5 games of 2020, including the playoff game.

Cam -89%, 93, 85, 89, 84, 88
Tuit -75, 72, 88, 75, 84, 79
Watt- 94, 93, 85, 95, 93, 90
Highsm- 83,91,95,84, 97

Those guys snap % on Sunday

Cam - 66%
Watt - 81%
AH - 54%

Ingram - 64%

I would assume that Tuit would have also been in the 60-65% range.

I hope Cams request for less snaps and the overall lower snap percentage on Sunday was an awawekning for this stay that they need to keep the front 7 fresh, need to rotate, need the back up DL to play more, need to limit Ingrams snaps the most of the 3 OLB ( age and injury history ), get a 4th OLB some snaps, etc.

I am hoping the theory on the lower snap percentages was "NOT"..... that it was the first game of the season, and for Watt, he did not play any P.S. games, etc......and that it will be best for this team come 4th quarters, the final strech, the playoffs.

Great info and insights, Stosh. For a while now, it's been my hope MT finally realizes he needs to use his depth more as a means to making his stars more effective in creating splash plays. Instead of running the wheels off, changes the tires more often so you can do more burnouts! And, it's a self-fulfilling prophecy -- the more splash plays, the bigger your lead, the more your depth gets to keep you stars fresh gameday and season long.

[Scunge]

Some of the things that I had noticed about this Buffalo game was the moving around of our chess pieces on defense. Anybody notice the few plays where Watt was lined up at MLB and then moved down to a DE position? Or how Tre Norwood was back at FS and Fitz lined up in the slot? Or how Melvin Ingram was rotating in for Watt and Highsmith?

If Tuitt comes back after missing the mandatory 3 games imagine he and Cam Heyward are the two DTs.

The two ILBs are Bush and Schobert.

The secondary is Sutton, Haden, Edmunds and Fitz.

Your two OLBs or DEs are Watt and Highsmith but what makes this year's defense so damn intriguing is when you factor in Melvin Ingram.

B2B or anybody for that matter, do you remember Kevin Green when he played for the RAMs? Fritz Shurmur, their DC had this 5 Linebacker defense, his 'Eagle' defense and it makes me wonder if the Steelers couldn't incorporate some aspects of that to evolve our defense and add new wrinkles to it.

If we have Tuitt and Cam as the two inside DTs and you have 5 Linebackers that comprise Watt, Schobert, Bush, Highsmith and Ingram then you can play games with offenses. So, okay, Watt and Highsmith are in essence your DEs and behind that front four you can have Schobert in the middle flanked by Bush and Ingram as they line up as OLBs.

This would not be a base defense you run all the time but if a team is pass happy might this not be a great nickel defense? Big Nickel defense? An offense would know that our two DTs were rushing but the other two could be a surprise. Maybe you have Ingram stacked behind Watt and they are the other two pass rushers as Highsmith drops into coverage. You could have Watt move around looking for better matchup, have Ingram line up in Watt's normal spot and let Watt line up at ILB. All kinds of possibilities.

Having a new 5 Linebacker 'Eagle' defense could give you more of an edge in doing blitzes. Always hated blitzing a corner and then watching LeBeau drop a DE or even a NT into coverage. With 5 LBers you have players more capable of dropping into coverage.

All I know is that the Mike Hilton problem or issue of trying to replace him, or find another slot CB to play like him resolved itself with the addition of Melvin Ingram and Joe Schobert and the development of James Pierre and Cam Sutton. Hilton was a single, specific tool that we tried to use for many projects, sometimes it turned out successful other times not, but now we have many diverse tools to tackle those projects. We can literally pick the right tool for a project, either game to game or moments within a game. I am excited.

You can go with 5 Linebackers or maybe when Joseph is ready you can have a big nickel with 3 safeties. Or you can have Pierre at outside CB and let Cam Sutton sizzle inside at slot CB. Or you can have Norwood or Joseph take reps at FS and let Minah get some time at slot CB.

All of that is what has been missing from this defense. Versatility, not being predictable, this is what I saw in game one and hopefully it evolves and grows the rest of the season.

[Deebo]

B2B or anybody for that matter, do you remember Kevin Green when he played for the RAMs? Fritz Shurmur, their DC had this 5 Linebacker defense, his 'Eagle' defense and it makes me wonder if the Steelers couldn't incorporate some aspects of that to evolve our defense and add new wrinkles to it.

Yup- Kevin Greene and the famed "Elephant" defense with Shurmur

I think it went something like this if memory serves me:

Reporter: why do you call this the elephant with Greene?

Shurmur: well where does an elephant sit and where does an elephant go? Anywhere he wants...

[DP39]

Some of the things that I had noticed about this Buffalo game was the moving around of our chess pieces on defense. Anybody notice the few plays where Watt was lined up at MLB and then moved down to a DE position? Or how Tre Norwood was back at FS and Fitz lined up in the slot? Or how Melvin Ingram was rotating in for Watt and Highsmith?

If Tuitt comes back after missing the mandatory 3 games imagine he and Cam Heyward are the two DTs.

The two ILBs are Bush and Schobert.

The secondary is Sutton, Haden, Edmunds and Fitz.

Your two OLBs or DEs are Watt and Highsmith but what makes this year's defense so damn intriguing is when you factor in Melvin Ingram.

B2B or anybody for that matter, do you remember Kevin Green when he played for the RAMs? Fritz Shurmur, their DC had this 5 Linebacker defense, his 'Eagle' defense and it makes me wonder if the Steelers couldn't incorporate some aspects of that to evolve our defense and add new wrinkles to it.

If we have Tuitt and Cam as the two inside DTs and you have 5 Linebackers that comprise Watt, Schobert, Bush, Highsmith and Ingram then you can play games with offenses. So, okay, Watt and Highsmith are in essence your DEs and behind that front four you can have Schobert in the middle flanked by Bush and Ingram as they line up as OLBs.

This would not be a base defense you run all the time but if a team is pass happy might this not be a great nickel defense? Big Nickel defense? An offense would know that our two DTs were rushing but the other two could be a surprise. Maybe you have Ingram stacked behind Watt and they are the other two pass rushers as Highsmith drops into coverage. You could have Watt move around looking for better matchup, have Ingram line up in Watt's normal spot and let Watt line up at ILB. All kinds of possibilities.

Having a new 5 Linebacker 'Eagle' defense could give you more of an edge in doing blitzes. Always hated blitzing a corner and then watching LeBeau drop a DE or even a NT into coverage. With 5 LBers you have players more capable of dropping into coverage.

All I know is that the Mike Hilton problem or issue of trying to replace him, or find another slot CB to play like him resolved itself with the addition of Melvin Ingram and Joe Schobert and the development of James Pierre and Cam Sutton. Hilton was a single, specific tool that we tried to use for many projects, sometimes it turned out successful other times not, but now we have many diverse tools to tackle those projects. We can literally pick the right tool for a project, either game to game or moments within a game. I am excited.

You can go with 5 Linebackers or maybe when Joseph is ready you can have a big nickel with 3 safeties. Or you can have Pierre at outside CB and let Cam Sutton sizzle inside at slot CB. Or you can have Norwood or Joseph take reps at FS and let Minah get some time at slot CB.

All of that is what has been missing from this defense. Versatility, not being predictable, this is what I saw in game one and hopefully it evolves and grows the rest of the season.

I vaguely remember it and great observations, Scunge. I agree. The possibilities are endless with the makeup of our current D -- and the hopeful return of Tuitt.

I hope our O can quickly mature and put some scoring pressure on our opponents. That would create the perfect scenario for Butler/MT/TA to do their best lab work, imo.

[Ice]

Honestly, 24 ppg will win a lot of games for this team.

[Roeth2Rudolph]

Having two ilb's who can stay on the field helps, as mentioned. I'm hoping the generation of consistent four man pressure continues. The ball-hawking Tre Norwood should be able to hook up a few ints if it does.

[shellwagnerblount]

One of the best threads I've ever read on this forum.
Bravo, gents!
WE have a lot of knowledgeable people on SteelerFury...

[SteelPro]

All those guys you mentioned except Ingram were on the roster last season yet down the stretch, we had difficulty in some games generating pressure with just 4. The Redskins and Browns playoff games (where I’m not even sure Baker got touched for 4 quarters) come to mind.

Big problem down the strech was our 4 best pass rushers were playing way too many snaps.
Gassed.
If I remember some game day discussion threads that were really down on Cams play.
All those snaps resulted in some pretty poor run defense.

Getting shreaded by the run, play after play after play........ is one of the most depressing and demoralizing things in the World.
Yup...I said world.
Allows the offense to do almost anything...including creating wide open pass catchers.

Snap percentage, last 5 games of 2020, including the playoff game.

Cam -89%, 93, 85, 89, 84, 88
Tuit -75, 72, 88, 75, 84, 79
Watt- 94, 93, 85, 95, 93, 90
Highsm- 83,91,95,84, 97

Those guys snap % on Sunday

Cam - 66%
Watt - 81%
AH - 54%

Ingram - 64%

I would assume that Tuit would have also been in the 60-65% range.

I hope Cams request for less snaps and the overall lower snap percentage on Sunday was an awawekning for this stay that they need to keep the front 7 fresh, need to rotate, need the back up DL to play more, need to limit Ingrams snaps the most of the 3 OLB ( age and injury history ), get a 4th OLB some snaps, etc.

I am hoping the theory on the lower snap percentages was "NOT"..... that it was the first game of the season, and for Watt, he did not play any P.S. games, etc......and that it will be best for this team come 4th quarters, the final strech, the playoffs.

They did a poor job rotating the defense front last year. Yes, they were gassed down the stretch. But a lot of that was the enormous number of 3 and outs from the offense.

[Pabst]

But a lot of that was the enormous number of 3 and outs from the offense.

Cannot emphasize this enough. Also turnovers.

The Bills game last year turned on a Ben pick 6 just before halftime.
In the Bengals debacle, 4 of the 5 Bengals scoring drives began in Steelers' territory.
The O turned it over 5 times in the first half of the Browns playoff game.

The Steelers weren't leaning on their D to win games, they were relying on their D to constantly bail out an inept Offense. That's a recipe for failure.

[Roeth2Rudolph]

The offense has been in a death spiral since Todd Haley left. I'm beginning to wonder just how far the elevator goes down.

[Ice]

Obviously we all loved what we saw from the pass rush and getting pressure on Allen without blitzing is likely the main reason the Steelers emerged victorious.

…..but we’ve only played one game.

Hilton’s effectiveness blitzing was a major weapon and the dude routinely made big plays and big stops.

Maybe the defense won’t miss him but I’m going to need a larger sample size than one game before I buy in, especially with a Raiders team coming in Tomlin always has major problems with.

As great as the defense played, there are going to be games where we struggle to get pressure just sending 4. That’s when Hilton shined brightest. I want to see how our defense looks in those games where blitzing becomes necessary to create pressure and we’ll definitely see some of those games this season.

On one hand, one game is one game. On the other hand, Watt is a fantastic pass rusher. Heyward is a fantastic pass rusher. Tuitt is a great pass rusher. Highsmith has shown a lot of promise. Ingram, when healthy, was a great pass rusher. There is every reason to believe that a team with at least 4 great pass rushers can generally get home with 4 great pass rushers. That is, it isn't the result of one game but knowing the players that would fit in the scheme.

I agree with Scunge's post -- I thought Hilton made a lot of visible plays near the LOS, but the scheme that enabled Hilton to be good came at the expense of leaving some gapping holes that a good QB takes advantage of.

All those guys you mentioned except Ingram were on the roster last season yet down the stretch, we had difficulty in some games generating pressure with just 4. The Redskins and Browns playoff games (where I’m not even sure Baker got touched for 4 quarters) come to mind.

Again we have some outstanding pass rushers for sure but there will be games where blitzing is necessary, whether that blitz is coming from guys like Devin Bush on the interior or Cam Sutton on the edge, it’s gonna happen.

It’s then we’ll find out if we’ll miss Hilton at all or not. After 1 game the jury most definitely remains out.

The scheme made Hilton as much as anything else, and if you really want that scheme back, think about what the Raiders did to the Ravens when they did it all game last week. The splash plays look good on Sportscenter, but getting nickled and dimed to death by a competent QB costs you in the win column. How bout we put it another way. 8 million dollars: you can have a) Hilton back or b) Melvin Ingram. If, at this point in the season you're saying A, you have issues.

[K_C_]

On one hand, one game is one game. On the other hand, Watt is a fantastic pass rusher. Heyward is a fantastic pass rusher. Tuitt is a great pass rusher. Highsmith has shown a lot of promise. Ingram, when healthy, was a great pass rusher. There is every reason to believe that a team with at least 4 great pass rushers can generally get home with 4 great pass rushers. That is, it isn't the result of one game but knowing the players that would fit in the scheme.

I agree with Scunge's post -- I thought Hilton made a lot of visible plays near the LOS, but the scheme that enabled Hilton to be good came at the expense of leaving some gapping holes that a good QB takes advantage of.

All those guys you mentioned except Ingram were on the roster last season yet down the stretch, we had difficulty in some games generating pressure with just 4. The Redskins and Browns playoff games (where I’m not even sure Baker got touched for 4 quarters) come to mind.

Again we have some outstanding pass rushers for sure but there will be games where blitzing is necessary, whether that blitz is coming from guys like Devin Bush on the interior or Cam Sutton on the edge, it’s gonna happen.

It’s then we’ll find out if we’ll miss Hilton at all or not. After 1 game the jury most definitely remains out.

The scheme made Hilton as much as anything else, and if you really want that scheme back, think about what the Raiders did to the Ravens when they did it all game last week. The splash plays look good on Sportscenter, but getting nickled and dimed to death by a competent QB costs you in the win column. How bout we put it another way. 8 million dollars: you can have a) Hilton back or b) Melvin Ingram. If, at this point in the season you're saying A, you have issues.

I disagree that the scheme made Hilton. Last week vs the Vikings Hilton had 6 tackles (4 solo) and a TFL.

He is going to do the same thing for Cincy he did in Pittsburgh.

When it comes to Ingram vs Hilton, Ingram was available because many (including the Chargers) thought Ingram was finished.

Looks like all these teams were wrong and I'd have to take Ingram over Hilton because pass rushers are the second most important commodity on any team. IF (and that's a big IF) Ingram stays healthy and continues to play like he did in week one, he was an absolute steal, but make no mistake....Mike Hilton is one helluva player and he's going to make plays all year for the Bengals.

[Roeth2Rudolph]

Hilton made that scheme doable, not the other way around.

[Ice]

Can't say I bothered to check out Hilton with the Bengals. Unless you're like, James Harrison, I really don't pay much attention once you're gone. Hilton was a good, probably very good, slot blitzer, he just left a little to be desired as a slot corner, and the blitzes got predictable and pretty easy for decent QBs and OCs to figure out, and there are too many competently QBed teams in the league in 2021 for it to be a consistently effective strategy. Better to spend the 8 mill on an actual pass rusher, which the FO did. Like I said, I consider the exchange a big win for Colbert and Co. at this point.

[blu]

Can't say I bothered to check out Hilton with the Bengals. Unless you're like, James Harrison, I really don't pay much attention once you're gone. Hilton was a good, probably very good, slot blitzer, he just left a little to be desired as a slot corner, and the blitzes got predictable and pretty easy for decent QBs and OCs to figure out, and there are too many competently QBed teams in the league in 2021 for it to be a consistently effective strategy. Better to spend the 8 mill on an actual pass rusher, which the FO did. Like I said, I consider the exchange a big win for Colbert and Co. at this point.

I was sorry to see Hilton go but am also happier with Ingram here. A better pass rush with less predictable blitzing can be so much better as we all watched last week.

[fractalsteel]

Can't say I bothered to check out Hilton with the Bengals. Unless you're like, James Harrison, I really don't pay much attention once you're gone. Hilton was a good, probably very good, slot blitzer, he just left a little to be desired as a slot corner, and the blitzes got predictable and pretty easy for decent QBs and OCs to figure out, and there are too many competently QBed teams in the league in 2021 for it to be a consistently effective strategy. Better to spend the 8 mill on an actual pass rusher, which the FO did. Like I said, I consider the exchange a big win for Colbert and Co. at this point.

A fair assessment.
When put in a position to use his skills Hilton was a good player for us, but too many kid themselves thinking he could hold up in coverage on a consistent basis.