Ben's Performance Last Sunday -- Historical Significance

[Legacy User]

http://fivethirtyeight.com/features/ske ... lisberger/

I visited the '538' site by clicking on a Yahoo link (Super Bowl odds for all 32 teams). Broncos are the favorites at about 20%.
Several teams are 1% or less. Steelers are 2%.

Anyway, when reading that piece I saw another story about Ben's performance vs. the Colts. I still can't say I completely understand the methodology, but the gist is that Ben's performance was something rarely if ever previously seen.

[Legacy User]

Neat.

[Kodiak]

It's not a fluke he's done this twice.

The "intelligentsia" on this site are fond of holding Ben to unachievable standards, and comparing him to the "elite" QB's without acknowledging differences in talent around him and system/coaching.

What you saw last Sunday is what Ben can do with great protection. Combine that with his ability to extend plays and throw on the run and you have Frankenbitch at QB. He has rare tools, and for the most part PIT has extracted value from that to convert into championships...but it hurts Ben's numbers and the perception of him as a QB.

On a different team we'd probably be debating whether Ben is GOAT instead of a HOFer (much less first ballot). Don't know if he has more or less rings in that scenario...but he's not done yet in either case.

[Havoc]

It's not a fluke he's done this twice.

The "intelligentsia" on this site are fond of holding Ben to unachievable standards, and comparing him to the "elite" QB's without acknowledging differences in talent around him and system/coaching.

What you saw last Sunday is what Ben can do with great protection. Combine that with his ability to extend plays and throw on the run and you have Frankenbitch at QB. He has rare tools, and for the most part PIT has extracted value from that to convert into championships...but it hurts Ben's numbers and the perception of him as a QB.

On a different team we'd probably be debating whether Ben is GOAT instead of a HOFer (much less first ballot). Don't know if he has more or less rings in that scenario...but he's not done yet in either case.

Ben is among the greatest playmaking qb's in league history (he can't move like he used to). This takes special talent. And that special talent in a man his size.... Ben is a physical freak... in a HOF kind of way.

Ron Jaworski on the radio this week said he texted Ben after that game... and wrote something like "you need to send the film of that game straight to Canton". Jaws also said he broke down the game film and that Ben was accurate on 46 of 49 throws.

Ben = BAMF

[Kodiak]

What's hilarious is Ben's "QBR" (ESPN's bullshit "play like Peyton" metric") last week against IND was 99. Suppose that is out of 100, but Brady over the past FIVE weeks is like 92.

cough cough BULLSHIT cough cough

[Legacy User]

It's not a fluke he's done this twice.

The "intelligentsia" on this site are fond of holding Ben to unachievable standards, and comparing him to the "elite" QB's without acknowledging differences in talent around him and system/coaching.

What you saw last Sunday is what Ben can do with great protection. Combine that with his ability to extend plays and throw on the run and you have Frankenbitch at QB. He has rare tools, and for the most part PIT has extracted value from that to convert into championships...but it hurts Ben's numbers and the perception of him as a QB.

On a different team we'd probably be debating whether Ben is GOAT instead of a HOFer (much less first ballot). Don't know if he has more or less rings in that scenario...but he's not done yet in either case.

Just want to point out the irony in this post of a pair of 500 yard games not being a fluke (which I agree with) yet he's held to unachievable standards

I'd think out-dueling Mike Glennon and Brian Hoyer are far more achievable than the greatest single game performance in he history of professional football (twice). But that's just me

[Minkah'n History]

It's not a fluke he's done this twice.

The "intelligentsia" on this site are fond of holding Ben to unachievable standards, and comparing him to the "elite" QB's without acknowledging differences in talent around him and system/coaching.

What you saw last Sunday is what Ben can do with great protection. Combine that with his ability to extend plays and throw on the run and you have Frankenbitch at QB. He has rare tools, and for the most part PIT has extracted value from that to convert into championships...but it hurts Ben's numbers and the perception of him as a QB.

On a different team we'd probably be debating whether Ben is GOAT instead of a HOFer (much less first ballot). Don't know if he has more or less rings in that scenario...but he's not done yet in either case.

Just want to point out the irony in this post of a pair of 500 yard games not being a fluke (which I agree with) yet he's held to unachievable standards

I'd think out-dueling Mike Glennon and Brian Hoyer are far more achievable than the greatest single game performance in he history of professional football (twice). But that's just me

Waaaaaaaaa, you're not funny guy.

[bradshaw2ben]

What I love is: Ben set the all-time single game record for a stat specifically built to measure how great Peyton Manning is... a stat that, arguably, doesn't measure what's great about Ben's play.

[jebrick]

It's not a fluke he's done this twice.

The "intelligentsia" on this site are fond of holding Ben to unachievable standards, and comparing him to the "elite" QB's without acknowledging differences in talent around him and system/coaching.

What you saw last Sunday is what Ben can do with great protection. Combine that with his ability to extend plays and throw on the run and you have Frankenbitch at QB. He has rare tools, and for the most part PIT has extracted value from that to convert into championships...but it hurts Ben's numbers and the perception of him as a QB.

On a different team we'd probably be debating whether Ben is GOAT instead of a HOFer (much less first ballot). Don't know if he has more or less rings in that scenario...but he's not done yet in either case.

I think any elite QB give protection and a defense laying back COULD do. Ben took advantage of the situation and did it.

[bradshaw2ben]

That defense wasn't laying back, they were out of answers-- they were methodically taken apart. That was the #1 defense statistically in the league, right?

[Steelperch]

Just want to point out the irony in this post of a pair of 500 yard games not being a fluke (which I agree with) yet he's held to unachievable standards

I'd think out-dueling Mike Glennon and Brian Hoyer are far more achievable than the greatest single game performance in he history of professional football (twice). But that's just me

Just to point out the irony of the guy that places all of the blame on the QB but fails to see how the gameplan and play calling dramatically effect the performance of said QB.

Vs Hoyer, Haley called 17 runs on the first 21 plays and purposefully took Ben out of the game until they were down 21-3. Oh and Mike Glennon. Ben had a chance to win the game but the head coach took the ball out if his hands on 3rd and 5. Kind of hard for a QB to win the game when all he can do is hand off. Against the Colts they attacked vertically and used play action passing heavily for the first time all year. You saw the results.

[Legacy User]

Waaaaaaaaa, you're not funny guy.

Do you ever find that you have to sit on an ice cream cone to tell what flavor it is?

[Legacy User]

Just want to point out the irony in this post of a pair of 500 yard games not being a fluke (which I agree with) yet he's held to unachievable standards

I'd think out-dueling Mike Glennon and Brian Hoyer are far more achievable than the greatest single game performance in he history of professional football (twice). But that's just me

This is like a one legged man in an ass kicking contest kicking himself in the ass. Just stop already.

[Legacy User]

That defense wasn't laying back, they were out of answers-- they were methodically taken apart. That was the #1 defense statistically in the league, right?

Exactly right.

But, for some odd reason last week, the Colts' D just "let" ben rip them apart.

It was because they let him do it.

[Legacy User]

Just want to point out the irony in this post of a pair of 500 yard games not being a fluke (which I agree with) yet he's held to unachievable standards

I'd think out-dueling Mike Glennon and Brian Hoyer are far more achievable than the greatest single game performance in he history of professional football (twice). But that's just me

Just to point out the irony of the guy that places all of the blame on the QB but fails to see how the gameplan and play calling dramatically effect the performance of said QB.

Vs Hoyer, Haley called 17 runs on the first 21 plays and purposefully took Ben out of the game until they were down 21-3. Oh and Mike Glennon. Ben had a chance to win the game but the head coach took the ball out if his hands on 3rd and 5. Kind of hard for a QB to win the game when all he can do is hand off. Against the Colts they attacked vertically and used play action passing heavily for the first time all year. You saw the results.

It's on Ben to audible and elevate his team to victory.

I kid.

Good post Perch.

[Legacy User]

Just want to point out the irony in this post of a pair of 500 yard games not being a fluke (which I agree with) yet he's held to unachievable standards

I'd think out-dueling Mike Glennon and Brian Hoyer are far more achievable than the greatest single game performance in he history of professional football (twice). But that's just me

This is like a one legged man in an ass kicking contest kicking himself in the ass. Just stop already.

No

Put me on ignore, I'll return the favor

[Legacy User]

Just want to point out the irony in this post of a pair of 500 yard games not being a fluke (which I agree with) yet he's held to unachievable standards

I'd think out-dueling Mike Glennon and Brian Hoyer are far more achievable than the greatest single game performance in he history of professional football (twice). But that's just me

This is like a one legged man in an ass kicking contest kicking himself in the ass. Just stop already.

No

Put me on ignore, I'll return the favor

You've been asking a lot of posters of late to put you on ignore.

Eventually you will be speaking to yourself. Is that your goal?

You're better than that IC. Come on man....I enjoy reading your comments, whether I agree or not.

[Steelperch]

What's hilarious is Ben's "QBR" (ESPN's bullshit "play like Peyton" metric") last week against IND was 99. Suppose that is out of 100, but Brady over the past FIVE weeks is like 92.

cough cough BULLSHIT cough cough

The best single game QBR this year was by Jake Locker vs Cleveland. He went 8-11 for 79 yards and 1 TD. His team lost. Isn't QBR supposed to measure the likelihood of a QB winning a game. I'd love to hear the nerds at ESPN defend how that game was better than Ben's 500 yard, 6 TD, 81% day from last week.

[Legacy User]

I'm tired of being flamed. If you don't like what I have to say don't read it bc I promise I don t read 75% of the posts I'm not quoted in. I just skim, it's not that hard. I don't care what most people have to say. It's their opinion. But they sure the hell care what I have to say and won't deny it

I have 4-5 people on ignore and the list will grow. And I promise those who I do have on ignore I'm not missing anything g that resembles football analysis

[Legacy User]

What's hilarious is Ben's "QBR" (ESPN's bullshit "play like Peyton" metric") last week against IND was 99. Suppose that is out of 100, but Brady over the past FIVE weeks is like 92.

cough cough BULLSHIT cough cough

The best single game QBR this year was by Jake Locker vs Cleveland. He went 8-11 for 79 yards and 1 TD. His team lost. Isn't QBR supposed to measure the likelihood of a QB winning a game. I'd love to hear the nerds at ESPN defend how that game was better than Ben's 500 yard, 6 TD, 81% day from last week.

I don't deal with that shit

Wtf is difference between QBR and regular rating ?

[Legacy User]

If we play small ball this week and put the chains back on Ben (which will be completely obvious), this coaching staff will prove how much of dumbfucks they actually are

[Legacy User]

Just want to point out the irony in this post of a pair of 500 yard games not being a fluke (which I agree with) yet he's held to unachievable standards

I'd think out-dueling Mike Glennon and Brian Hoyer are far more achievable than the greatest single game performance in he history of professional football (twice). But that's just me

Just to point out the irony of the guy that places all of the blame on the QB but fails to see how the gameplan and play calling dramatically effect the performance of said QB.

Vs Hoyer, Haley called 17 runs on the first 21 plays and purposefully took Ben out of the game until they were down 21-3. Oh and Mike Glennon. Ben had a chance to win the game but the head coach took the ball out if his hands on 3rd and 5. Kind of hard for a QB to win the game when all he can do is hand off. Against the Colts they attacked vertically and used play action passing heavily for the first time all year. You saw the results.

Missed this post. I guess I don't understand how QB talent doesn't matter and it's all coaching. May as we'll start handoff monkey and hire best OC in football if you think it gets the same result

And they've run 800 plays but your fixated on 21 of them and they were winning when it happened. Also TB game I can point to 50 things hat could've changed to win that fame. From QB to coaching to defense. I just have higher standars personally for QB than I do coaching or defense

[Legacy User]

And against the colts they tried to manufacture blitz by dumping 2 coverage guys in B gap all day playing man coverage in single high. Ben has eaten that up his whole career. It's the 4 man pressures and 2 deep look they struggle with

[jeemie]

More interesting to me was the story on how Aaron Rodgers is too cautious during comeback attempts because he plays "small ball", taking what the defense gives him and throwing short instead of pushing the ball down field and taking risks.

[Legacy User]

Just want to point out the irony in this post of a pair of 500 yard games not being a fluke (which I agree with) yet he's held to unachievable standards

I'd think out-dueling Mike Glennon and Brian Hoyer are far more achievable than the greatest single game performance in he history of professional football (twice). But that's just me

Just to point out the irony of the guy that places all of the blame on the QB but fails to see how the gameplan and play calling dramatically effect the performance of said QB.

Vs Hoyer, Haley called 17 runs on the first 21 plays and purposefully took Ben out of the game until they were down 21-3. Oh and Mike Glennon. Ben had a chance to win the game but the head coach took the ball out if his hands on 3rd and 5. Kind of hard for a QB to win the game when all he can do is hand off. Against the Colts they attacked vertically and used play action passing heavily for the first time all year. You saw the results.

Missed this post. I guess I don't understand how QB talent doesn't matter and it's all coaching. May as we'll start handoff monkey and hire best OC in football if you think it gets the same result

And they've run 800 plays but your fixated on 21 of them and they were winning when it happened. Also TB game I can point to 50 things hat could've changed to win that fame. From QB to coaching to defense. I just have higher standars personally for QB than I do coaching or defense

What kind of standards did you maintain for the likes of Woodley, Malone, Graham, Brister, O'Donnell, Maddox, Stewart, et al?

[jeemie]

Just want to point out the irony in this post of a pair of 500 yard games not being a fluke (which I agree with) yet he's held to unachievable standards

I'd think out-dueling Mike Glennon and Brian Hoyer are far more achievable than the greatest single game performance in he history of professional football (twice). But that's just me

Just to point out the irony of the guy that places all of the blame on the QB but fails to see how the gameplan and play calling dramatically effect the performance of said QB.

Vs Hoyer, Haley called 17 runs on the first 21 plays and purposefully took Ben out of the game until they were down 21-3. Oh and Mike Glennon. Ben had a chance to win the game but the head coach took the ball out if his hands on 3rd and 5. Kind of hard for a QB to win the game when all he can do is hand off. Against the Colts they attacked vertically and used play action passing heavily for the first time all year. You saw the results.

Missed this post. I guess I don't understand how QB talent doesn't matter and it's all coaching. May as we'll start handoff monkey and hire best OC in football if you think it gets the same result

And they've run 800 plays but your fixated on 21 of them and they were winning when it happened. Also TB game I can point to 50 things hat could've changed to win that fame. From QB to coaching to defense. I just have higher standars personally for QB than I do coaching or defense

A) I suppose it was too much to ask of IC to be honest about his opponents' arguments because once again he takes Perch's argument and twists it into something Perch did not say. As always.

B) So now we're up to "I can name 50 things that could've changed to win the Tampa game", but when asked for specifics we get "I don't have time to go back and look".

[Stosh-67]

Just want to point out the irony in this post of a pair of 500 yard games not being a fluke (which I agree with) yet he's held to unachievable standards

I'd think out-dueling Mike Glennon and Brian Hoyer are far more achievable than the greatest single game performance in he history of professional football (twice). But that's just me

Just to point out the irony of the guy that places all of the blame on the QB but fails to see how the gameplan and play calling dramatically effect the performance of said QB.

Vs Hoyer, Haley called 17 runs on the first 21 plays and purposefully took Ben out of the game until they were down 21-3. Oh and Mike Glennon. Ben had a chance to win the game but the head coach took the ball out if his hands on 3rd and 5. Kind of hard for a QB to win the game when all he can do is hand off. Against the Colts they attacked vertically and used play action passing heavily for the first time all year. You saw the results.

Missed this post. I guess I don't understand how QB talent doesn't matter and it's all coaching. May as we'll start handoff monkey and hire best OC in football if you think it gets the same result

And they've run 800 plays but your fixated on 21 of them and they were winning when it happened. Also TB game I can point to 50 things hat could've changed to win that fame. From QB to coaching to defense. I just have higher standars personally for QB than I do coaching or defense

Winning 3-0 against Cleveland.
In todays NFL...... or for that matter any era........ when a team dominates another team in the first quarter like the PS did to Cleveland . ...running the ball with great success ...possessing the ball ......for almost the whole quarter..... along with a defense that was putting up three and outs.....etc...etc........and only up 3-0 is basically a loss .a huge loss of opportunities....of opportunity wasted. They laid out a recipe for defeat in that first quarter.

its safe to say that a team down 3-0 at that point takes a huge sigh of relief and says.... we took their best shot. We could be down 10-0.
Down 13-0. down 17-0.

If anyone feels being up 3-0 at that point was winning the game.... that the game plan was a winning formula....... then their are no words left to educate otherwise.

[swissvale72]

Correct, Stosh.....following week, Green Bay, at the end of 1Q, had a similar yardage advantage against their opponent....about 175 to minus 8.....they were up 21-0.

[Stosh-67]

Correct, Stosh.....following week, Green Bay, at the end of 1Q, had a similar yardage advantage against their opponent....about 175 to minus 8.....they were up 21-0.

The game plan and play calling in that Cleveland game was insane.
Not taking advantage of the success of the run game was insane.
Maybe historically insane......
Were they going to continue into the second quarter with another 17-4 run pass ratio?...... with the hope of being up 6-0 or 9-0.
With the goal of possessing the ball accomplished.

[Legacy User]

Just want to point out the irony in this post of a pair of 500 yard games not being a fluke (which I agree with) yet he's held to unachievable standards

I'd think out-dueling Mike Glennon and Brian Hoyer are far more achievable than the greatest single game performance in he history of professional football (twice). But that's just me

Just to point out the irony of the guy that places all of the blame on the QB but fails to see how the gameplan and play calling dramatically effect the performance of said QB.

Vs Hoyer, Haley called 17 runs on the first 21 plays and purposefully took Ben out of the game until they were down 21-3. Oh and Mike Glennon. Ben had a chance to win the game but the head coach took the ball out if his hands on 3rd and 5. Kind of hard for a QB to win the game when all he can do is hand off. Against the Colts they attacked vertically and used play action passing heavily for the first time all year. You saw the results.

Missed this post. I guess I don't understand how QB talent doesn't matter and it's all coaching. May as we'll start handoff monkey and hire best OC in football if you think it gets the same result

And they've run 800 plays but your fixated on 21 of them and they were winning when it happened. Also TB game I can point to 50 things hat could've changed to win that fame. From QB to coaching to defense. I just have higher standars personally for QB than I do coaching or defense

Wow. Do you even remember watching this game? I don't have a tenth of the knowledge of the least poster on this board, but even I thought that taking the air out of the ball from play 1 was a bad idea. 17 out of 21 run/pass is a GREAT idea when your up 10 to 21 and then only if your run game is dominating.