What is it with Todd Haley...

[jeemie]

...when his offense gets the ball in primo field position that makes him go ultra-conservative?

This is about 6-7 times now, at least, since 2012 that the defense and special teams have worked together to give the offense the ball around midfield, and he has gone run, run, pass.

This thing is like a loose tooth with me. I do not understand his thinking in these situations, and can't come up with a logical reason for him doing this.

Does anyone have any ideas?

[Legacy User]

I'm not defending him, but I think the idea has to be to get some points when the defense/special teams puts them in a position to score. Don't turn it over, get at least 3 points.

Again, not saying I agree with it, but how many consecutive games has it been with over 30 points scored? I don't have a lot to complain about right now in terms of the overall success of the offense.

[R_S]

I doubt it's truly the case. Did he do that when Denver fumbled in the first quarter? No

I think the times he's gone conservative just stand out in your mind when it doesn't work.

[Legacy User]

You'd have to go back and track each such possession over the course of the year and compare them.

They've had plenty of similar possessions where they successfully throw deep. Yet, you can't do that all the time and expect it to always work. Have to mix it and sometimes what you mix to doesn't work either.

It might be true that it's a real trend. It also might be true that you just get annoyed at a specific sequence and get annoyed whenever it happens.

[BethlehemSteel]

[jeemie]

Your obsession with me is unhealthy.

You need help.

[BethlehemSteel]

nice deflection

[W&M_Steeler]

...when his offense gets the ball in primo field position that makes him go ultra-conservative?

This is about 6-7 times now, at least, since 2012 that the defense and special teams have worked together to give the offense the ball around midfield, and he has gone run, run, pass.

This thing is like a loose tooth with me. I do not understand his thinking in these situations, and can't come up with a logical reason for him doing this.

Does anyone have any ideas?

No idea. I distinctly remember going bat shit crazy when Haley did this during the third quarter of a critical late December Bengals game in 2012. Steelers picked off Dalton, had the ball at the Bengals 30, down 10-7. Went run, run, pass, punt even though the run wasn't getting anywhere that day. Steelers ended up losing 13-10 and being eliminated from the playoffs.

[Legacy User]

Haley is having some great years...my only lingering criticism is it sometimes seems that DWill is the primary receiver on third down.

[lifelongsteel]

#2 in yards
#5 in points
7/14 games against top 10 defenses
Just put up 34 against the best D in the league

Ben misses 4
Bell out most of the season
Bryant misses 5
lost center and LT

Not gonna complain or nitpick

If there is a trend, I assume there is a good reason for it

[langer]

Any of you guys read theoretical physics? Multi-dimensional worlds theory?

We can't yet "see" things that happen in other dimensions but we can measure and see some of the artifacts, effects, and shadowing blurs of other dimensions. I feel like that's the only way you can evaluate Todd Haley's effect on this offense, because so much of it is in Ben's hands and dependent on superior talent.

I feel like, when you have the feeling Todd is having more impact on playcalling and the flow, you can tell a lot about where he is in terms of mindset and ability as a coach. It's not always flattering.

He gets massive credit the more he gets the hell out the way and he gets points for forcing Ben into incorporating the short game (I'll bet Ben's work around the greens is improved) and he gets points for putting all of this in place... but playcalling and feel for the game don't appear to be strengths, from what I can tell. Probably won't get more information until he's gone-- which just might be after we win the Super Bowl.

[Legacy User]

Any of you guys read theoretical physics? Multi-dimensional worlds theory?

We can't yet "see" things that happen in other dimensions but we can measure and see some of the artifacts, effects, and shadowing blurs of other dimensions. I feel like that's the only way you can evaluate Todd Haley's affect on this offense, because so much of it is in Ben's hands and dependent on superior talent.

I feel like, when you have the feeling Todd is having more impact on playcalling and the flow, you can tell a lot about where he is in terms of mindset and ability as a coach. It's not always flattering.

He gets massive credit the more he gets the hell out the way and he gets points for forcing Ben into incorporating the short game (I'll bet Ben's work around the greens is improved) and he gets points for putting all of this in place... but playcalling and feel for the game don't appear to be strengths, from what I can tell. Probably won't get more information until he's gone-- which just might be after we win the Super Bowl.

I totally agree with this. Haley has conceptualized a near perfect offense for the personnel they have. Given Ben's continued development, at this point, he is capable of running the O on gameday Peyton Manning style.

[jeemie]

...when his offense gets the ball in primo field position that makes him go ultra-conservative?

This is about 6-7 times now, at least, since 2012 that the defense and special teams have worked together to give the offense the ball around midfield, and he has gone run, run, pass.

This thing is like a loose tooth with me. I do not understand his thinking in these situations, and can't come up with a logical reason for him doing this.

Does anyone have any ideas?

No idea. I distinctly remember going bat shit crazy when Haley did this during the third quarter of a critical late December Bengals game in 2012. Steelers picked off Dalton, had the ball at the Bengals 30, down 10-7. Went run, run, pass, punt even though the run wasn't getting anywhere that day. Steelers ended up losing 13-10 and being eliminated from the playoffs.

Yes...he also did something similar in the Dallas game before.

This is what I'm talking about.

Not necessarily EVERY time the Steelers get the ball near midfield, but it seems like almost every time we get it near midfield at a critical point in the game...if the game has been going poorly for us...or even kind of average...and suddenly we get a great defensive stop or can effect a sudden change in momentum and seize control of the flow of the game...in these moments, Todd Haley tightens up and gets conservative.

It drives me insane because why would you waste such an opportunity by getting conservative?

Yesterday was a perfect example of this kind of moment. Steelers get a late FG and stagger into the half trailing by 14. The defense comes out to open the second half and finally, FINALLY gets a stop. Britton Colquitt hits a shitty punt, and we are set up in perfect position to begin to erase the misfortunes of the first half...and haley goes run, run, pass.

It's almost like he knows the moment is at hand where he can step up and shine as a coordinator and show everybody he won't let adversity get him down...but he's afraid to do it.

We eventually did step up and win the game...but that opening drive of the second half could have been the defining moment in a demoralizing loss...like it has been in the past. The moment the other team sensed we had given up.

B2B, you said it best in your game thread comment "He (Haley) had 20 minutes to think about that drive...and that is what he came up with".

I know the offense has been stellar this year...but turning point moments don't often come...when they do, you have to step up and seize them.

Haley seems to shrink from them.

[Legacy User]

My biggest problem is his personnel grouping. Wtf with our Wr's would we ever go 13 personnel makes no sense. Every gm we start off in that bs then after gain 2-3 yds Combined on 1st and 2nd down, he brings in 11 personnel. Just dumb as hell it infuriates me to no end.

[stinger8]

Looks like you may not have to worry about his apparent deficiency as I am hearing he is a front runner for the Miami job. Heard it on the radio I think?? I have a feeling he is probably a shitty person, BUT the stats indicate he is a very good O Coordinator, here and in Arizona and thats all I care about. Hate to see him go.

[lifelongsteel]

Looks like you may not have to worry about his apparent deficiency as I am hearing he is a front runner for the Miami job. Heard it on the radio I think?? I have a feeling he is probably a shitty person, BUT the stats indicate he is a very good O Coordinator, here and in Arizona and thats all I care about. Hate to see him go.

People love stats until they don't support their beliefs.

Haley, like Arians, will never be considered a good coordinator here, regardless of results.

[jeemie]

Looks like you may not have to worry about his apparent deficiency as I am hearing he is a front runner for the Miami job. Heard it on the radio I think?? I have a feeling he is probably a shitty person, BUT the stats indicate he is a very good O Coordinator, here and in Arizona and thats all I care about. Hate to see him go.

People love stats until they don't support their beliefs.

Haley, like Arians, will never be considered a good coordinator here, regardless of results.

He has his good points and bad points.

I think his bad points will prevent him from being great.

I want him to be great, not good.

Shrinking from great moments doesn't make one great.

[Legacy User]

...when his offense gets the ball in primo field position that makes him go ultra-conservative?

This is about 6-7 times now, at least, since 2012 that the defense and special teams have worked together to give the offense the ball around midfield, and he has gone run, run, pass.

This thing is like a loose tooth with me. I do not understand his thinking in these situations, and can't come up with a logical reason for him doing this.

Does anyone have any ideas?

No idea. I distinctly remember going bat shit crazy when Haley did this during the third quarter of a critical late December Bengals game in 2012. Steelers picked off Dalton, had the ball at the Bengals 30, down 10-7. Went run, run, pass, punt even though the run wasn't getting anywhere that day. Steelers ended up losing 13-10 and being eliminated from the playoffs.

Yes...he also did something similar in the Dallas game before.

This is what I'm talking about.

Not necessarily EVERY time the Steelers get the ball near midfield, but it seems like almost every time we get it near midfield at a critical point in the game...if the game has been going poorly for us...or even kind of average...and suddenly we get a great defensive stop or can effect a sudden change in momentum and seize control of the flow of the game...in these moments, Todd Haley tightens up and gets conservative.

It drives me insane because why would you waste such an opportunity by getting conservative?

Yesterday was a perfect example of this kind of moment. Steelers get a late FG and stagger into the half trailing by 14. The defense comes out to open the second half and finally, FINALLY gets a stop. Britton Colquitt hits a shitty punt, and we are set up in perfect position to begin to erase the misfortunes of the first half...and haley goes run, run, pass.

It's almost like he knows the moment is at hand where he can step up and shine as a coordinator and show everybody he won't let adversity get him down...but he's afraid to do it.

We eventually did step up and win the game...but that opening drive of the second half could have been the defining moment in a demoralizing loss...like it has been in the past. The moment the other team sensed we had given up.

B2B, you said it best in your game thread comment "He (Haley) had 20 minutes to think about that drive...and that is what he came up with".

I know the offense has been stellar this year...but turning point moments don't often come...when they do, you have to step up and seize them.

Haley seems to shrink from them.

I get your thoughts and thought same...in haleys defense I believe he saw our solid running back was barely used..and thought a running game might work.. catch them thinking pass! ..I think no huddle and ben calling plays are lacking too often and could make this offense even better..

[Legacy User]

I think Haley is doing a fine job. There I said it. Is he perfect no, but who is? just knowing to let Ben drive the car more often than not is good enough in my book. I think its easier to be critical of Tomlin as HC. (game/clock mgmt.) than Haley as an OC. We are the #1 or 2 offense in the league and we are critical of the OC, gotta love us Steelers fans.

[Legacy User]

Bitching about Haley's faults this year is like bitching about ABs endzone antics.

That is one damn fine Camaro tinkerer masking as an offensive coordinator.

[Legacy User]

Looks like you may not have to worry about his apparent deficiency as I am hearing he is a front runner for the Miami job. Heard it on the radio I think?? I have a feeling he is probably a shitty person, BUT the stats indicate he is a very good O Coordinator, here and in Arizona and thats all I care about. Hate to see him go.

I tease my Dolphins fan friend every time he complains about his team...."don't worry, T_dd is gonna fix all of this next year"!

[V DUB]

#2 in yards
#5 in points
7/14 games against top 10 defenses
Just put up 34 against the best D in the league

Ben misses 4
Bell out most of the season
Bryant misses 5
lost center and LT

Not gonna complain or nitpick

If there is a trend, I assume there is a good reason for it

Yep. I couldn't decide whether to quote this or Dan. Questioning 34 vs the best D in the league is straight up nitpicking. I do give Jeemie credit for the bat shit crazy post though, it made me laugh.

[Kodiak]

fyi....saw somewhere Ben is calling 50% of the plays. I think that's total, not just no-huddle.

kind of funny you have to go back to another "dumb" QB named Bradshaw who called more of his own plays

[jeemie]

Yep. I couldn't decide whether to quote this or Dan. Questioning 34 vs the best D in the league is straight up nitpicking. I do give Jeemie credit for the bat shit crazy post though, it made me laugh.

You think it's batshit crazy because you're looking back to it in hindsight.

Think back to the time in the game where that sequence of play calls happened.

The Steelers finally had a defensive stop...they hadn't had one all game save for the fumble.

On O, the Steelers had struggled their way to 13 points...7 of them off a short field from the punt.

That was a critical stop by the D, and a poor punt gave the Steelers prime field position.

And that was what Haley chose to call for his first three plays.

If he hadn't done similar things before in similar situations over the last four years...with devastating results ultimately...I wouldn't have complained so much.

But given all that context, does my post really seem so batshit crazy?

[V DUB]

Yep. I couldn't decide whether to quote this or Dan. Questioning 34 vs the best D in the league is straight up nitpicking. I do give Jeemie credit for the bat shit crazy post though, it made me laugh.

You think it's batshit crazy because you're looking back to it in hindsight.

Think back to the time in the game where that sequence of play calls happened.

The Steelers finally had a defensive stop...they hadn't had one all game save for the fumble.

On O, the Steelers had struggled their way to 13 points...7 of them off a short field from the punt.

That was a critical stop by the D, and a poor punt gave the Steelers prime field position.

And that was what Haley chose to call for his first three plays.

If he hadn't done similar things before in similar situations over the last four years...with devastating results ultimately...I wouldn't have complained so much.

But given all that context, does my post really seem so batshit crazy?

I meant when you called Beth bat shit crazy...carry on but I agreed. On your side on that one.

[Legacy User]

Yep. I couldn't decide whether to quote this or Dan. Questioning 34 vs the best D in the league is straight up nitpicking. I do give Jeemie credit for the bat shit crazy post though, it made me laugh.

You think it's batshit crazy because you're looking back to it in hindsight.

Think back to the time in the game where that sequence of play calls happened.

The Steelers finally had a defensive stop...they hadn't had one all game save for the fumble.

On O, the Steelers had struggled their way to 13 points...7 of them off a short field from the punt.

That was a critical stop by the D, and a poor punt gave the Steelers prime field position.

And that was what Haley chose to call for his first three plays.

If he hadn't done similar things before in similar situations over the last four years...with devastating results ultimately...I wouldn't have complained so much.

But given all that context, does my post really seem so batshit crazy?

Everyone keeps on saying that we're looking back on the game in hindsight and it's influencing our perception.

Could it be that the coaching staff actually capable of having foresight, or dare I say it, a plan?

Could they be thinking, we're down by a lot right now, and if we want to stay in the game, we need to get some points right now -- even if it's only 3?

I'm just thinking out loud.

[jeemie]

Oh, THAT post, Van.

Had forgotten about it already.

[Legacy User]

I'd love to know for sure when and where play calls are coming from Haley and when Ben is calling the play.

If it's true what I've seen on this board, that Ben has taken more control in the past few weeks - that wouldn't surprise me.