OT - Ray Rice suspended

[Legacy User]

I wouldn't bother with this but bloke let me know he blocked me publicly. And the to painful to read stuff makes me laugh my ass off...nothing personnel, I actually think he has a good grasp on the game for a Euro that didn't live it. You know I like me some Irvine Welsh, Paul Reed, James Kelman, John Niven, Fish, Primal Scream..even Jesus and Mary Chain...but they can keep the haggis, old purple tin, ridiculously priced single malts and the recent social engineering/lefty fascism like twitter jail sentences and banning orders.

Steven Smith is a pretentious asshole that makes a living by drifting as far as possible from answering the question and then tying 5 minutes of disjointed nonsense together with a couple of sentences...but no way in hell he should be suspended for a tortured explanation of -



Had to embed it...reminded me of moms on report card day summer of 80.

http://www.theguardian.com/society/2010/sep/05/men-victims-domestic-violence

Let's see Redskins is to evil to be put into print. Every team needs a little gay in the locker room. CTE isn't pseudo science. Title 9 Hip Hip Hooray!!! for the 100 nonstudent, nonrelative viewers of female collegiate sports. Decades of research prove Hgh and all the other non steroid performance enhancement is bullshit...but let's propagate the PED bullshit for the sake of the industry. NFL locker rooms should reflect the latest collegiate unisex facilities. And now despite the fact that NFL players are charged less then half as often in domestic violence cases then the general public 500K plus in fines is no where near enough of a penalty.

Imagine a tranny sports reporter with the surname of GracefulSeahorse that played D-3 ball and is overcoming symptoms of CTE and PTSD due to domestic violence and a star is born

[jeemie]

looks like Fat Cam might be putting Rice in the tabloid dust...with some nasty ass sores and a new motto which I fucking love...might change my nom de plume to " we all have to die some day baby".

No culture problem here. Nothing unusual about the Steelers of the past couple of years. Colbert isn't being deceived. There all targets and there only allegations.

When you show that the Steelers are having significantly more of...or even the same number of...these issues than other teams in the NFL, then you might show that the Steelers have a culture problem.

[Legacy User]

looks like Fat Cam might be putting Rice in the tabloid dust...with some nasty ass sores and a new motto which I fucking love...might change my nom de plume to " we all have to die some day baby".

No culture problem here. Nothing unusual about the Steelers of the past couple of years. Colbert isn't being deceived. There all targets and there only allegations.

When you show that the Steelers are having significantly more of...or even the same number of...these issues than other teams in the NFL, then you might show that the Steelers have a culture problem.

That's the part people just aren't getting. So much of culture is how NOT to be a poor or mediocre team. I guess some of it is the dirty truth...all the shit they get away with is a sort of privilege tied to having a winning team and the value of the individual player. When things are going poorly privilege is yanked and work ethic emphasized. It's not moral, you might not agree with it, but it works.

Keep your eye on Texas this year. Strong is pretty much doing what I'm talking about.

[jeemie]

looks like Fat Cam might be putting Rice in the tabloid dust...with some nasty ass sores and a new motto which I fucking love...might change my nom de plume to " we all have to die some day baby".

No culture problem here. Nothing unusual about the Steelers of the past couple of years. Colbert isn't being deceived. There all targets and there only allegations.

When you show that the Steelers are having significantly more of...or even the same number of...these issues than other teams in the NFL, then you might show that the Steelers have a culture problem.

That's the part people just aren't getting. So much of culture is how NOT to be a poor or mediocre team. I guess some of it is the dirty truth...all the shit they get away with is a sort of privilege tied to having a winning team and the value of the individual player. When things are going poorly privilege is yanked and work ethic emphasized. It's not moral, you might not agree with it, but it works.

Keep your eye on Texas this year. Strong is pretty much doing what I'm talking about.

I understand completely what you're saying.

I disagree it would make a difference to the Steelers' performance otherwise I'd be all for your zero tolerance policy.

[Legacy User]

Smith got damned lucky he didnt get fired on the spot. I fucking hate victim blaming and no it wasnt PC to hold someone accountable for saying mindbogglingly crass and ignorant crap on camera. It doesnt matter if it is sexual assualt, domestic violence and rape we constantly tell women what they should say, what they should wear, how they should act...yeh fucking great meanwhile yet another prep strolls away because we are to busy trying to find ways to mitigate shit instead of nailing the asshole that is the source.

What that lady did or said in the elevator doesnt equate to being cold cocked and dragged around in public like a piece of cattle. The real PC mess is males continually trying to find an angle to explain shitty action against women and patting themselves on the back in a massive group think wank fest.

As my last Commander said it is real simple: "If it were your daughter would you worry about what she said or did when she is victim of abuse? We all know the answer and if we do then it should be the standard for all troops that suffer abuse, period." He was a good boss.

If your commander's daughter created a violent situation and was the one who escalated the situation by initiating the violence......then she wasn't a "victim of abuse" at all. The one she assailed would be the victim of abuse. It's every bit as illegal in this country for a woman to assault a man as it is vice versa, even according to the UCMJ.

Beyonce's sister got off easy, she deserved to get slugged. And if Jay Z had defended himself in that fashion, she would still not have been any kind of victim.

[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tlQeKU9kQV8[/youtube]

[Legacy User]

If you're a dude and you're smart you don't hit chicks. It ALWAYS looks bad at first blush, which is the only blush you're likely to provide 99% of observers.

If a chick starts going apeshit- get away from her and call cops. Taking matters into your own hands will, at best, result in a huge inconvenience.

[Legacy User]

I disagree it would make a difference to the Steelers' performance otherwise I'd be all for your zero tolerance policy.

That's exactly it. I'm not talking about a zero tolerance policy. I'm mostly talking about Mike Adams but I wouldn't be if it was Heyward. I'm talking about digging into Clarks comments and if say Timmons was hot...bad boy LT...say Arnfelt is hot...waiver wire.

And I'm not advocating violence against women. But the media is leading people to believe it's a significant NFL problem...when it's less then half the rate of the general public.

[Steelafan77]

If you're a dude and you're smart you don't hit chicks. It ALWAYS looks bad at first blush, which is the only blush you're likely to provide 99% of observers.

If a chick starts going apeshit- get away from her and call cops. Taking matters into your own hands will, at best, result in a huge inconvenience.

I agree with the walking away part. Involving the cops can complicate matters though. That suggestion is hit or miss. Best response is to simply remove yourself from the environment. Allow the situation to defuse. It goes both ways Jones. A smart woman doesn't have to hit her boyfriend, husband etc... Violence does not resolve issues. Violence initiates more violence leaving the original issue unresolved.

[Legacy User]

I suppose insomnia can lead to controversy but I really find all the chivalry over the top.

A night of drinking results in someone playing dead in the elevator. The police statements said both parties had hit each other...the cops also said there were no visible injuries and both parties said no injuries or medical attention were needed. My opinion is it was a drunk argument that got slightly stupid and sloppily dramatized. My understanding is he has been nailing her since she entered college and she will never have to work a day in her life. They got a kid....and she married him after the fact. No prior criminal or NFL discipline for Rice. I think over half a million dollar fine, Daddy's rep hit, the questions revolving around mommies judgement, and this media frenzy is plenty for a young family to bear.

I think the whole thing being arbitrary is ridiculous. I think the entire BR suspension was ridiculous. But the conduct policy considers number of incidents. It also supposedly considers damage to the shield and that means the celebrity of the player can be part of the determination of discipline. So by those standards it's not ridiculous when compared to the four games that BR ended up with imo. But again, in both these cases the legal damage was plenty. Obviously neither will ever overcome the hit to there reputation, every future incident will call these incidents to mind while we ponder the future discipline of the next player to fuck up, and these things will never reach the degree of closure it does for non celebrities.

This would all be codified but the NFL loves this shit. Because this world has moved to a Kardashion level of no talent required, no such thing as bad publicity...in fact each salacious click milks the cable cash cow. And because at some point they will get to say that NFL players commit these types of offenses at less then half the rate of the general public. https://stat.duke.edu/~dalene/chance/chanceweb/123.nflviol.pdf Maybe Kief should have incuded that in his weepy outrage...I didn't watch but he generally cries during big publicity monologues.

In all honesty I cannot believe how time after time the NFLPA is represented so poorly. The stupidity of what they give up and what they fight for is camp. And I'll tell you something else...the crumbs the NFL tosses the NFLPA are much more concerned with short term profitability then the overall good of the game. These days I often find myself thinking the real problem between labor, management, and the general populations perception of them isn't so much just greed or corruption but the results of negotiation in a world gone stupid.

This is an excellent post.

I agree.

If you're a dude and you're smart you don't hit chicks. It ALWAYS looks bad at first blush, which is the only blush you're likely to provide 99% of observers.

If a chick starts going apeshit- get away from her and call cops. Taking matters into your own hands will, at best, result in a huge inconvenience.

I agree with the walking away part. Involving the cops can complicate matters though. That suggestion is hit or miss. Best response is to simply remove yourself from the environment. Allow the situation to defuse. It goes both ways Jones. A smart woman doesn't have to hit her boyfriend, husband etc... Violence does not resolve issues. Violence initiates more violence leaving the original issue unresolved.

But we are not really talking about smart women here. . .

[rooneytunes]

I could be wrong on this and maybe Rice is suspended for the week leading up to the first game but if not then think about this. Stephen A Smith suspended from ESPN for a week for saying some dumb shit about Domestic Violence. That's 7 days. Ray Rice actually is the one who committed the violence and he is suspended for the first and second game. Second game is on a Thursday so he get Sunday to Thursday. 5 days.

[Jobu]

I could be wrong on this and maybe Rice is suspended for the week leading up to the first game but if not then think about this. Stephen A Smith suspended from ESPN for a week for saying some dumb shit about Domestic Violence. That's 7 days. Ray Rice actually is the one who committed the violence and he is suspended for the first and second game. Second game is on a Thursday so he get Sunday to Thursday. 5 days.

He's suspended the entire game week. Eleven days total.

[rooneytunes]

I could be wrong on this and maybe Rice is suspended for the week leading up to the first game but if not then think about this. Stephen A Smith suspended from ESPN for a week for saying some dumb shit about Domestic Violence. That's 7 days. Ray Rice actually is the one who committed the violence and he is suspended for the first and second game. Second game is on a Thursday so he get Sunday to Thursday. 5 days.

He's suspended the entire game week. Eleven days total.

Ok. Thanks. Still though. 11 days for committing the act. 7 days for saying dumb stuff about it. Still seems off.

[Legacy User]

Bullshit

http://www.cnn.com/2014/07/31/us/baltim ... ?hpt=hp_t1

6 games at least.

[stillthere]

I could be wrong on this and maybe Rice is suspended for the week leading up to the first game but if not then think about this. Stephen A Smith suspended from ESPN for a week for saying some dumb shit about Domestic Violence. That's 7 days. Ray Rice actually is the one who committed the violence and he is suspended for the first and second game. Second game is on a Thursday so he get Sunday to Thursday. 5 days.

it will be from end of preseason thru thursday. so 12 days

[rooneytunes]

http://m.huffpost.com/us/entry/5639565? ... f=politics





Man. Now the government is involved? WTF? Goodell is under fire.

[Ice]

Cowherd actually had a pretty salient point on this after like the 20th dude called his show the other day coming up with bizarre, hypothetical scenarios under which it is "OK" to hit a woman.

Just stop. It isn't OK. Never has been, never will be. If you think it is, fine. I don't want or need to hear about it. SF77 is right. Walk away. Remove yourself from the situation. Involve the authorities, or don't. But domestic violence isn't justifiable or OK. Two games is a joke. Rice should be criminally prosecuted. Was also amused at the "show of solidarity" by his teammates. For fucks sake. Only a Harbaugh could sanction or encourage that meat headed stunt.

[Legacy User]

Ummm...Rice was criminally prosecuted.

I certainly don't condone violence against women...but I also think quite a few of them are sneaky, loud mouthed, bitches that already have plenty of legal protection. I mean, they call 911, no matter what you are going to jail.

So while I'll never strike a woman...and I'm sure there is a gathering of the stats going on...I really don't care. The EMTs found nothing. The cops report says no injuries. He was charged with a felony. That is ridiculous...and if you are poor you have a much larger hassle then Rice did. I look at some of those ridiclous donation gathering stats they put out, and I ask myself how many times have I encountered a visibly battered woman? I have evil friends and the most I have ever heard of was a backhand. Maybe twice in 44 years. I have more sympathy for a 10 year old with a bad brush burn.

[R_S]

Cowherd actually had a pretty salient point on this after like the 20th dude called his show the other day coming up with bizarre, hypothetical scenarios under which it is "OK" to hit a woman.

Just stop. It isn't OK. Never has been, never will be. If you think it is, fine. I don't want or need to hear about it. SF77 is right. Walk away. Remove yourself from the situation. Involve the authorities, or don't. But domestic violence isn't justifiable or OK. Two games is a joke. Rice should be criminally prosecuted. Was also amused at the "show of solidarity" by his teammates. For fucks sake. Only a Harbaugh could sanction or encourage that meat headed stunt.

But But, what if there was a zombie apocalypse and she was infected and trying to eat my brains, then can I hit her?

[Steelafan77]

The reality of this situation is there has always been man on woman (vice versa) violence. Since the dawn of our species. There always will be. The difference now (past 30+ years) is men can be incarcerated for it, and are at an alarming rate. Not sure what the exact numbers are.

In the past it was excepted. Women were secondary citizens for many years in America. Wasn't until late in the 20th century they were granted equal rights and made equal citizens. The problem is, is like everything else man conceived there are plenty of loop holes for both sides to exploit.

This is a world wide issue and in some countries this is an acceptable behavior. Its far worse in other countries that do not police this behavior. Should Ray Rice be imprisoned? Its a matter of opinion. Should he be extra careful the rest of his life? Absofukinglutely. Now that Ray Rice has been convicted by the courts and the court of public opinion all it will take is for this wife of his to get angry (vindictive) for something stupid and play the victim ending Ray Rice at any time for the forseeable future.

For me that's the unfair reality of it. (LoopHole)

[steelclan]

The reality of this situation is there has always been man on woman (vice versa) violence. Since the dawn of our species. There always will be. The difference now (past 30+ years) is men can be incarcerated for it, and are at an alarming rate. Not sure what the exact numbers are.

In the past it was excepted. Women were secondary citizens for many years in America. Wasn't until late in the 20th century they were granted equal rights and made equal citizens. The problem is, is like everything else man conceived there are plenty of loop holes for both sides to exploit.

This is a world wide issue and in some countries this is an acceptable behavior. Its far worse in other countries that do not police this behavior. Should Ray Rice be imprisoned? Its a matter of opinion. Should he be extra careful the rest of his life? Absofukinglutely. Now that Ray Rice has been convicted by the courts and the court of public opinion all it will take is for this wife of his to get angry (vindictive) for something stupid and play the victim ending Ray Rice at any time for the forseeable future.

For me that's the unfair reality of it. (LoopHole)

Loophole? Do you realize how many assaults, rapes and domestic abuse cases dont get reported by women? Can you guess why? Basically you just argued that if Ray Rice hits his missus again it falls under the guise of she instigated it to get him trouble. Aka victim blaming. If this is true what if like the majority of cases she doesnt report it?

Here are some facts for you: preps that commit abuse/assault/rape are overhwhelmingly repeat offenders. So under your reasoning does that mean the vast majority just made a mistake and second time around that damn female pushed him to it?

[Legacy User]

I'm sure those facts work both ways though. I've certainly seen many female repeat offenders over the years when it comes to physical violence against men. And never once did I see any of them suffer any kind of legal consequence for initiating violence. Not once. But like Zivco says, all a women has to do is cry wolf and the dude will be in the back of a squad car just like that. I'll reference a certain relationship between two people I knew well. They were prone to heated arguments but she was prone to escalating it to violence. In fact she would become absolutely unhinged. On two particular instances he defended himself simply by trying to swat her arms away/block them from hitting him. The first instance she lost her balance because she was swinging wildly like Mike Tyson and fell headfirst into a wall several feet away. On the other he accidently caught her in the face while trying to block her psychotic barrage of closed fist punches. On both instances she immediately started screaming about calling the cops. She did, and both times he was cuffed and put in the car with the officer never bothering to get both sides of the story. Luckily I was a witness so he got off. Let's be real, there are tons of women out there who resort to violence as a first tactic because they think they can, or that they're entitled to it. Fuck that noise. And women who pull that shit are not "victims" if they do get clocked.

[Legacy User]

I'm sure those facts work both ways. I've certainly seen many female repeat offenders over the years when it comes to physical violence against men. And never once did I see any of them suffer any kind of legal consequence for initiating violence. Not once. But like Zivco says, all a women has to do is cry wolf and the dude will be in the back of a squad car just like that. I'll reference a certain relationship between two people I knew well. They were prone to heated arguments but she was prone to escalating it to violence. In fact she would become absolutely unhinged. On two particular instances he defended himself simply by trying to swat her arms away/block them from hitting him. The first instance she lost her balance because she was swinging wildly like Mike Tyson and fell headfirst into a wall several feet away. On the other he accidently caught her in the face while trying to block her psychotic barrage of closed fist punches. On both instances she immediately started screaming about calling the cops. She did, and both times he was cuffed and put in the car with the officer never bothering to get both sides of the story. Let's be real, there are tons of women out there who resort to violence as a first tactic because they think they can, or that they're entitled to it. Fuck that noise. And women who pull that shit are not "victims" if they do get clocked.

Other than pointing out that men are often victims of physical domestic abuse, what point are you urging us to draw?

I have no doubt that some women use cultural bias to their advantage. Which is horrible and a terrible, cruel injustice to women who actually suffer abuse. We also all know that men who abuse women serially sometimes end up killing their spouse/partner if left unchecked. Cops see seriously fucked up shit and I have no doubt they tend toward putting the male in the back of the squad car, even after getting both side of the story. What would have us do?

[Legacy User]

I'm talking about states with mandatory arrest on 911 calls. Bloke used "repeat offenders" rather then the big picture of the cycle of abuse. The abused become to see themselves as deserving. The psycholgical, emotional, and financial ties that bind...often times add the lil angel they spawned as a mutual replacement for next go around.

There was a study of the 20 some states that enacted mandatory arrest and it's found it actually has driven the number of domestic violence calls down...and yet the domestic violence homicide rate in those states were 50% greater. And in state after state there was a quick, steep climb in simple assault off DV calls just after enactment...then a steep drop off after the realization of post arrest consequences and word of mouth.

So legitimate cases don't make the call but drunk scorned crazy bitch does....

[Gonzo]

It is nice to see Goodell finally being called to the mat for his duplicitous and scattershot approach to player discipline. And even better to see him digging the hole deeper every time he opens his mouth in this issue.

His last statement - "we cannot make up discipline - we must be consistent"

Idiot

[Ice]

Cowherd actually had a pretty salient point on this after like the 20th dude called his show the other day coming up with bizarre, hypothetical scenarios under which it is "OK" to hit a woman.

Just stop. It isn't OK. Never has been, never will be. If you think it is, fine. I don't want or need to hear about it. SF77 is right. Walk away. Remove yourself from the situation. Involve the authorities, or don't. But domestic violence isn't justifiable or OK. Two games is a joke. Rice should be criminally prosecuted. Was also amused at the "show of solidarity" by his teammates. For fucks sake. Only a Harbaugh could sanction or encourage that meat headed stunt.

But But, what if there was a zombie apocalypse and she was infected and trying to eat my brains, then can I hit her?

You must have listened to the show. Pathetic.

[Steelafan77]

Not worth it. Cause you know it all.

[COS]

It is nice to see Goodell finally being called to the mat for his duplicitous and scattershot approach to player discipline. And even better to see him digging the hole deeper every time he opens his mouth in this issue.

His last statement - "we cannot make up discipline - we must be consistent"

Idiot

Holy fuck what a jackass. Making up discipline is EXACTLY what he's been doing outside of banned substances.

[Legacy User]

Other than pointing out that men are often victims of physical domestic abuse, what point are you urging us to draw?

I have no doubt that some women use cultural bias to their advantage. Which is horrible and a terrible, cruel injustice to women who actually suffer abuse. We also all know that men who abuse women serially sometimes end up killing their spouse/partner if left unchecked. Cops see seriously fucked up shit and I have no doubt they tend toward putting the male in the back of the squad car, even after getting both side of the story. What would have us do?

I'm not urging anybody to come to any particular conclusion. But based on a lot of the things i've witnessed over the years, it grinds my gears when people say that "there's never any acceptable circumstance where it's justified to strike a woman". I do not agree based on the psycho bitches i've observed over the years. And if this scenario were reversed and it was a marquee Steelers player dragging his lady out of an elevator, i'm quite sure i'd see a ton of Steelers fans here with a much more vocal interest in what happened in that elevator prior to that final striking blow. For all the rancor at Ravens fans defending Rice, i think we all know that Steelers fans would be doing the exact same thing. Lord knows it didn't take long to assail the alleged victim's character in the Milledgeville incident. All it took was the tidbit about the DTF pin to come out and just based on that she was almost universally condemned a just a slut who stalked him and came down with a case of buyer's remorse after the fact. For all the bandwagon chivalry I see in this instance, there wasn't a whole lot of that to be found when that particular bit of news broke.

For the record, I think Rice deserves at least 4-6 games. Not because I think he's necessarily a wife batterer, as we don't know the full story of what happened. But he deserves it because of the "damage to the shield" that the video brought, and because there's precedent and there needs to be consistency in punishment from the league.

[Legacy User]

I agree with every bit of this piece:

Excerpt:

ESPN commentator Stephen A. Smith was nowhere near the elevator that day, but he just got knocked out by a chorus of voices and a spineless employer. When Smith commented on the issue, he clearly stated his position that Rice was dead wrong and deserved punishment. Without excusing it, Smith gave his opinion that, in general, when there is violence, sometimes it might be worth asking questions about provocation. He made it clear that there should never be violence, especially by a man against a woman.

For even suggesting that there could be provocation before a fight, Smith is now off the air. Mind you, Smith never tried to justify Rice's actions. Once the outcry began, Smith rushed to apologize. I don't believe that Smith owed anyone an apology. If you listen to his entire statement, he said nothing to suggest that Rice's now-wife, Janay, "had it coming," nor did he make any excuses for Rice's behavior. The only offense he committed was that he blathered so incoherently that he made it hard to see how he managed to get a TV show in the first place.

So, if ESPN wants to take him off the air and replace him with a better commentator, I'm all for it. But I'm disgusted at the rancorous, politically correct swarm that descended upon Smith, and the spineless reaction of the management at ESPN.
And once the swarm gets into "beast mode," there is no recovery.

Why? Plain and simple: sexism.

Recall that a few months ago, Solange Knowles attacked Jay-Z. When that happened, the feminist site Jezebel had this take: "The real tea isn't the fight itself, but what could have possibly gone down between the two to make Solange kick her sister's husband in the balls." In other words, "if she hit him, he must have done something to have it coming." And this was not an outlier view.

Nobody's outrage meter spiked there. No, it was "funny."


I'm not defending Ray Rice. But there's definitely a "sit down and shut up" double standard among those who seek to promote one side of this issue -- and this is less about Smith's comments being inappropriate. The gleeful rush to call for Smith's head is far more inappropriate.

http://www.cnn.com/2014/07/31/opinion/r ... ?hpt=hp_t3