Referees?

[COR-TEN]

I think, if you follow the actual rules, there would be a penalty on every snap. By enforcing the "rules" at the referee's discretion, it allows control over the outcome of the game since it's so subjective. I remember a clear H2H hit on Ward inside the 5 yard line where he was obviously concussed and dropped the ball because of the hit. It was called incomplete. He was taken off the field by trainers and didn't return. Ended up either a field goal or punt. It was Ray Lewis, and the Ravens went on to win the Super Bowl that year, IIRC - when the lights went out. That's just one example but there are so many across 32 teams each Sunday it's not improbable that it's on purpose.

Put me in the group that believes the NFL tries to decide who goes to the Superbowl and who doesn't. I'm not saying it's blatant, but it wouldn't surprise me if owners got together to decide who is more "deserving" and deals are made. That would include which cities are selected to host the championship game. All it takes are a few well placed fouls or non fouls and a game is decided. I'm not saying they do this for every game, but sometimes the unevenness is too obvious that incompetence couldn't possibly be the case.

On the other hand, there's Hanlon's Razor.

Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity. - or ineptitude.

[Legacy User]

Reffing is totally subjective. There is holding going on on every single NFL play. The league knows it, the teams and players know it....it just can't be called on every single play.

Like the hold on Timmons versus the Jets on Jennings TD run.

[Nick79]

I think, if you follow the actual rules, there would be a penalty on every snap.

This is exactly why I think they could easily eliminate 50% of the rules and the game would be faster and flow better. What audience are they playing too? Fantasy players? Maybe? But wouldn't getting rid of motion and formation penalties, and go CFL or Arenaball rules on those things help the offense? They refuse to do that, and all those type of penalties are the most trivial and annoying.

[955876]

The competition committee wanted to emphasize existing rules on illegal contact and holding because some teams took liberties last season. Many point to the dominating performance by the Seattle Seahawks in their Super Bowl victory against Peyton Manning’s Denver Broncos as the reason for the emphasis. Seattle defenders got physical with Denver receivers and held the Broncos to eight points after they set the NFL record for most points in a regular season.

Read more: http://www.post-gazette.com/sports/stee ... z3BbqgQRs8

Freaking pathetic. Proof right there (like we all didn't already realize) that fucking suits in an office are deliberately trying to manipulate the game and its outcome.

Ohhhh nooooos. Pey Pey couldn't beat the big bad Seattle defense. Hey, let's just further fuck with the rules so maybe this year he can.

It's pathetic and sickening to anyone who grew up watching and loving this game.

One of the most interesting things about NFL football to me has always been how different and/or similar styles clash in between the white lines.

That creates interest and provides for great discussion. I used to love sitting around with friends/family and talking/arguing about football. And it used to be about football.

What do you talk about now when discussing the NFL???

The refs, bogus calls, etc etc.

There is no longer any intrigue about match ups. Zippo.

If a team comes along with a good defense the league steps right in and cuts off their balls.

Steelers hit too hard so the league fines them until the entire D plays on eggshells.

Seattle DBs are too good in coverage. Ok, let's throw flags every chance we get.

I hate it. And it's ruining what has for decades been my favorite (by far) sport.

In years past, I couldn't wait for the start of the season. Was always so eager. Not so much now. Especially because watching a game has become an exercise to get through rather than truly enjoy.

The ones I really feel bad for are the kids. Many will never know how great this game once was.

Rant over....

[Legacy User]

Just to pull away from conspiracy.

There is a lot driving this, the biggest of which is technology.

Go watch youtube's of those games in the mid 90's. You get maybe 1 blurry replay, if you are lucky you might get 2 angles. That's still in the mid 90's. Today you have high definition feeds with many different angles. People see the bad calls, people see the holding... and it all goes up as screen caps, gifs, and youtubes the following week.

Life before instant replay was great not because we knew what was a catch and what wasn't, it was great because we didn't have 20 high def angles to show that catch we all agreed was a catch, in fact did touch the very top blades of grass on the ground. Today - if you call that a catch and there is no instant replay - we post 4000 youtube videos about how the league is blowing it.

The past two super bowls have had "holding" receiver controversies (Jimmy Smith holding Crabtree) (Seahawks holding everybody). It's gotta be resolved one way or the other. Personally I'd rather have the league combo the DB's holding with offensive lines pulling people down from behind as they run around them... hands inside is okay - until the guy gets by you and you drag him down.

[Legacy User]

Just to pull away from conspiracy.

There is a lot driving this, the biggest of which is technology.

Go watch youtube's of those games in the mid 90's. You get maybe 1 blurry replay, if you are lucky you might get 2 angles. That's still in the mid 90's. Today you have high definition feeds with many different angles. People see the bad calls, people see the holding... and it all goes up as screen caps, gifs, and youtubes the following week.

Life before instant replay was great not because we knew what was a catch and what wasn't, it was great because we didn't have 20 high def angles to show that catch we all agreed was a catch, in fact did touch the very top blades of grass on the ground. Today - if you call that a catch and there is no instant replay - we post 4000 youtube videos about how the league is blowing it.

The past two super bowls have had "holding" receiver controversies (Jimmy Smith holding Crabtree) (Seahawks holding everybody). It's gotta be resolved one way or the other. Personally I'd rather have the league combo the DB's holding with offensive lines pulling people down from behind as they run around them... hands inside is okay - until the guy gets by you and you drag him down.

In other words, the people are complaining because they are being listened to and given what they want.

I think this is a superb post.

[955876]

It's not what I want...

Hard to take sport seriously that penalizes a 5' 11" DB for laying a pinky finger on a 6' 3" WR that didn't even move the WR from his route.

Or calls roughing the passer when the defender literally fell at the foot of the QB and pulled his sock down. Not even knocking the QB to the ground.

Or during Falcons/Whiners NFC championship, key 3rd and long pass was well off target and falls incomplete. Yet the refs flagged the pass rusher for "roughing" because the hand he stuck in the air in an attempt to block the pass inadvertently (and barely) grazed the QBs helmet AFTER the ball had left his hands and did nothing to "rough" the QB. QB didn't even fall down or get moved in any way. Yet a first down was awarded and the offense went on to score the go ahead TD.

I could go on.

That is excessive enforcement of the rules and directly manipulates outcomes.

At the same time allowing things that are also against the rules based on the player involved.

Like never giving Harrison a holding call even though he at the time was the best pass rusher and was being held countless times.

Or allowing defenders to tee off on Ben.

It's inconsistent and bastardized the game.

[Nick79]

Just to pull away from conspiracy.

There is a lot driving this, the biggest of which is technology.

Go watch youtube's of those games in the mid 90's. You get maybe 1 blurry replay, if you are lucky you might get 2 angles. That's still in the mid 90's. Today you have high definition feeds with many different angles. People see the bad calls, people see the holding... and it all goes up as screen caps, gifs, and youtubes the following week.

Life before instant replay was great not because we knew what was a catch and what wasn't, it was great because we didn't have 20 high def angles to show that catch we all agreed was a catch, in fact did touch the very top blades of grass on the ground. Today - if you call that a catch and there is no instant replay - we post 4000 youtube videos about how the league is blowing it.

The past two super bowls have had "holding" receiver controversies (Jimmy Smith holding Crabtree) (Seahawks holding everybody). It's gotta be resolved one way or the other. Personally I'd rather have the league combo the DB's holding with offensive lines pulling people down from behind as they run around them... hands inside is okay - until the guy gets by you and you drag him down.

In other words, the people are complaining because they are being listened to and given what they want.

I think this is a superb post.

Maybe it should be like golf too! Fans can call in and point out infractions to the ref while they watch the game! LOL!

[Legacy User]

Just to pull away from conspiracy.

There is a lot driving this, the biggest of which is technology.

Go watch youtube's of those games in the mid 90's. You get maybe 1 blurry replay, if you are lucky you might get 2 angles. That's still in the mid 90's. Today you have high definition feeds with many different angles. People see the bad calls, people see the holding... and it all goes up as screen caps, gifs, and youtubes the following week.

Life before instant replay was great not because we knew what was a catch and what wasn't, it was great because we didn't have 20 high def angles to show that catch we all agreed was a catch, in fact did touch the very top blades of grass on the ground. Today - if you call that a catch and there is no instant replay - we post 4000 youtube videos about how the league is blowing it.

The past two super bowls have had "holding" receiver controversies (Jimmy Smith holding Crabtree) (Seahawks holding everybody). It's gotta be resolved one way or the other. Personally I'd rather have the league combo the DB's holding with offensive lines pulling people down from behind as they run around them... hands inside is okay - until the guy gets by you and you drag him down.

Not having gone to youtube to watch replays, and just going off memory, I seem to recall pretty damn clear replays from the 70's. Admittedly not from every angle, but still often pretty clear.

[Nick79]

The problem is in America everybody wants PERFECT outcomes. they can't just "live with it" that a ref made a bad call and move on, they act like it's life or death and must be FIXED! I think soon, I may become a soccer fan over the NFL just because the clock never stops, the rules never change and there are no replays, AND when the ref makes a mistake, the fans just say, "Oh well", and move on.

[Legacy User]

I'm not an alarmist. I'm one of the unlikely few that don't like the "injury prevention" bullshit but don't think those changes altered the game to the degree many do. But I'm by no means pleased with it...

This is another story all together. Flags are up 40% in an NFL that already had to many flags. More then half of the secondary calls I've seen have been non existent or wrong. I hate hate hate the going to the "NFL control center" live...it feels so GD 1984, it is going to take longer, and you watch...first time a point spread is in play on instant replay this year we are going to see some really creative conspiracy theories. And I do think they are going to pressure officials to make more calls in real time...

So I think there are three big reasons for this-

1- Fantasy football money.

2- 70% of purchases of all NFL merchandising is female driven...12 out of the top 15 female jerseys were QBs, same number for youth Jerseys.

3- The big sales of getting Manning or Brady a going away ring.

[Nick79]

2- 70% of purchases of all NFL merchandising is female driven...12 out of the top 15 female jerseys were QBs, same number for youth Jerseys.

Is that true? I would not have thought that women bought most of the NFL merchandise? And even if they do, what makes more penalties appealing to women? Or are you saying high scoring appeals more to women? And if so I think that's BS, as men design and execute high scoring offenses, so obviously many, many, many men like that sort of play too.

[jebrick]

The problem is in America everybody wants PERFECT outcomes. they can't just "live with it" that a ref made a bad call and move on, they act like it's life or death and must be FIXED! I think soon, I may become a soccer fan over the NFL just because the clock never stops, the rules never change and there are no replays, AND when the ref makes a mistake, the fans just say, "Oh well", and move on.

i would tend to say that the NFL is an entertainment industry and they are tweaking their product. As they have said the penalties are subjective so rather than adjust the rules to what they need they can just adjust the subjectiveness of the refs. This is not a rule for safety of the players ( like the hands to the face for the linemen) but an advantage for some.

It is very similar to the NBA of the late 80's-90's ( and mostly today). The superstars had their own "moves" which, although against the rules, were ignored by the refs. Jordon's move was to palm the ball. Ewing was to take 3 steps across the key before shooting. Barkley's was to slowing charge to the basket. Now the NBA refs are trying to call palming on players who grew up watching Jordan's move and thinking it totally legit (because it was never called).

[Nick79]

The problem is in America everybody wants PERFECT outcomes. they can't just "live with it" that a ref made a bad call and move on, they act like it's life or death and must be FIXED! I think soon, I may become a soccer fan over the NFL just because the clock never stops, the rules never change and there are no replays, AND when the ref makes a mistake, the fans just say, "Oh well", and move on.

i would tend to say that the NFL is an entertainment industry and they are tweaking their product. As they have said the penalties are subjective so rather than adjust the rules to what they need they can just adjust the subjectiveness of the refs. This is not a rule for safety of the players ( like the hands to the face for the linemen) but an advantage for some.

It is very similar to the NBA of the late 80's-90's ( and mostly today). The superstars had their own "moves" which, although against the rules, were ignored by the refs. Jordon's move was to palm the ball. Ewing was to take 3 steps across the key before shooting. Barkley's was to slowing charge to the basket. Now the NBA refs are trying to call palming on players who grew up watching Jordan's move and thinking it totally legit (because it was never called).

If it's about entertainment, do they think the delays for flags and replay reviews are entertaining? I'd think they'd be better off and increase entertainment value without so much of that nonsense. Less RULES, Less FLAGS, Less Review= MORE ENTERTAINMENT.

[Legacy User]

The problem is in America everybody wants PERFECT outcomes. they can't just "live with it" that a ref made a bad call and move on, they act like it's life or death and must be FIXED! I think soon, I may become a soccer fan over the NFL just because the clock never stops, the rules never change and there are no replays, AND when the ref makes a mistake, the fans just say, "Oh well", and move on.

i would tend to say that the NFL is an entertainment industry and they are tweaking their product. As they have said the penalties are subjective so rather than adjust the rules to what they need they can just adjust the subjectiveness of the refs. This is not a rule for safety of the players ( like the hands to the face for the linemen) but an advantage for some.

It is very similar to the NBA of the late 80's-90's ( and mostly today). The superstars had their own "moves" which, although against the rules, were ignored by the refs. Jordon's move was to palm the ball. Ewing was to take 3 steps across the key before shooting. Barkley's was to slowing charge to the basket. Now the NBA refs are trying to call palming on players who grew up watching Jordan's move and thinking it totally legit (because it was never called).

If it's about entertainment, do they think the delays for flags and replay reviews are entertaining? I'd think they'd be better off and increase entertainment value without so much of that nonsense. Less RULES, Less FLAGS, Less Review= MORE ENTERTAINMENT.

They're hoping that a season or two of overly aggressive flags pushes secondaries to adjust into a contact-free style of play that will net more yards, and more scoring, and that the flags will naturally decrease as players adjust and figure out that they're basically not allowed touching anyone anymore.

The problem is that removing all contact from pass coverage is virtually impossible. You're always going to have incidental contact when two guys are running downfield at full speed and tracking the same ball. So I don't think they're actually going to get to where they want to be while also removing enough flags to make the game non-aggravating.

And even if they do get there, the game is going to be so watered down that a lot of people are going to lose interest anyways.

[Legacy User]

2- 70% of purchases of all NFL merchandising is female driven...12 out of the top 15 female jerseys were QBs, same number for youth Jerseys.

Is that true? I would not have thought that women bought most of the NFL merchandise? And even if they do, what makes more penalties appealing to women? Or are you saying high scoring appeals more to women? And if so I think that's BS, as men design and execute high scoring offenses, so obviously many, many, many men like that sort of play too.

http://www.bloggingtheboys.com/2014/2/25/5445906/the-female-fan-the-nfls-biggest-domestic-growth-market

I have yet to meet a women that had much more then a social interest in football...really I would put 90% of there primary interest is that no one gets seriously hurt. I'm sure there are exceptions. To me the female jersey sales are mostly about publicity and human interest stories...QB's almost always lead the way in that shit. So my thinking is anything that promotes QBs is going to move merchandising the most with the 70% or so of female driven buys...I realize the number of male dickheads that can't appreciate a good ground game or stifling defense are legion... just fucking with you Nick.

[Nick79]

2- 70% of purchases of all NFL merchandising is female driven...12 out of the top 15 female jerseys were QBs, same number for youth Jerseys.

Is that true? I would not have thought that women bought most of the NFL merchandise? And even if they do, what makes more penalties appealing to women? Or are you saying high scoring appeals more to women? And if so I think that's BS, as men design and execute high scoring offenses, so obviously many, many, many men like that sort of play too.

http://www.bloggingtheboys.com/2014/2/25/5445906/the-female-fan-the-nfls-biggest-domestic-growth-market

I have yet to meet a women that had much more then a social interest in football...really I would put 90% of there primary interest is that no one gets seriously hurt. I'm sure there are exceptions. To me the female jersey sales are mostly about publicity and human interest stories...QB's almost always lead the way in that shit. So my thinking is anything that promotes QBs is going to move merchandising the most with the 70% or so of female driven buys...I realize the number of male dickheads that can't appreciate a good ground game or stifling defense are legion... just fucking with you Nick.

I'm all for it, if it makes sense and the rules favor it. But if not, no, I'm against it. That great '90s D and the Bus toting the rock couldn't get it done, because the passing component was to weak. I'm just a pragmatist, do what works with the current rules.

[COR-TEN]

They're hoping that a season or two of overly aggressive flags pushes secondaries to adjust into a contact-free style of play that will net more yards, and more scoring, and that the flags will naturally decrease as players adjust and figure out that they're basically not allowed touching anyone anymore.

The problem is that removing all contact from pass coverage is virtually impossible. You're always going to have incidental contact when two guys are running downfield at full speed and tracking the same ball. So I don't think they're actually going to get to where they want to be while also removing enough flags to make the game non-aggravating.

And even if they do get there, the game is going to be so watered down that a lot of people are going to lose interest anyways.

But by then a whole new generation will have been weened on the watered down version. It'll just take a few short years. Besides, the major media outlets that reach most fans have already been laying the groundwork for years with the Brady, Manning, Brees orgasms.

[zeke5123]

The flag fest that is the current NFL may explain why more Americans are becoming attracted to fuckin' soccer.

[jebrick]

This is just a repeat of what happened after the 2003 post season where the Pats defense raped the Colts and Manning. Notice the penalties for illegal contract more than double in 2004. Then falls back to where it started in 2003 over the next 5-7 years. It is temporary and will fall off as soon as Manning retires.

[Legacy User]

They're hoping that a season or two of overly aggressive flags pushes secondaries to adjust into a contact-free style of play that will net more yards, and more scoring, and that the flags will naturally decrease as players adjust and figure out that they're basically not allowed touching anyone anymore.

The problem is that removing all contact from pass coverage is virtually impossible. You're always going to have incidental contact when two guys are running downfield at full speed and tracking the same ball. So I don't think they're actually going to get to where they want to be while also removing enough flags to make the game non-aggravating.

And even if they do get there, the game is going to be so watered down that a lot of people are going to lose interest anyways.

But by then a whole new generation will have been weened on the watered down version. It'll just take a few short years. Besides, the major media outlets that reach most fans have already been laying the groundwork for years with the Brady, Manning, Brees orgasms.

I dunno, there a ton of variables in here.

For one, I'd argue that a lot of people are starting to move away from the major media outlets, these days. Data seems to suggest that http://deadspin.com/espns-ratings-are-way-down-this-year-whats-the-matte-722030528

Second, the generation that is supposed to replace us may end up being significantly smaller. Participation in youth football leagues is declining fairly rapidly (http://www.cbssports.com/general/writer/gregg-doyel/24233232/decline-of-pop-warner-football-doesnt-bode-well-for-nfl). Overreactions to recent concussion publicity that goes away in a few years, or a long term issue? Only time will tell, but it's not looking good.

If less people are playing football, will less people watch it? Again, I don't have the answer, but it seems like a logical connection.

And, of course, the next generation is one that is just much more distracted. I grew up on football not just because I played it, but because that was simply what people did on Sundays. Games were as much about spending time with friends and family as they were about the football. Go to church, come home, and watch the game. I'm not sure that the next generation is going to be quite as ingrained in that routine. Families seem to have a hard time just sitting around for an evening meal these days.

It's all speculative, but I think the NFL has a lot of things working against it right now.

[COR-TEN]

They're hoping that a season or two of overly aggressive flags pushes secondaries to adjust into a contact-free style of play that will net more yards, and more scoring, and that the flags will naturally decrease as players adjust and figure out that they're basically not allowed touching anyone anymore.

The problem is that removing all contact from pass coverage is virtually impossible. You're always going to have incidental contact when two guys are running downfield at full speed and tracking the same ball. So I don't think they're actually going to get to where they want to be while also removing enough flags to make the game non-aggravating.

And even if they do get there, the game is going to be so watered down that a lot of people are going to lose interest anyways.

But by then a whole new generation will have been weened on the watered down version. It'll just take a few short years. Besides, the major media outlets that reach most fans have already been laying the groundwork for years with the Brady, Manning, Brees orgasms.

I dunno, there a ton of variables in here.

For one, I'd argue that a lot of people are starting to move away from the major media outlets, these days. Data seems to suggest that http://deadspin.com/espns-ratings-are-way-down-this-year-whats-the-matte-722030528

Second, the generation that is supposed to replace us may end up being significantly smaller. Participation in youth football leagues is declining fairly rapidly (http://www.cbssports.com/general/writer/gregg-doyel/24233232/decline-of-pop-warner-football-doesnt-bode-well-for-nfl). Overreactions to recent concussion publicity that goes away in a few years, or a long term issue? Only time will tell, but it's not looking good.

If less people are playing football, will less people watch it? Again, I don't have the answer, but it seems like a logical connection.

And, of course, the next generation is one that is just much more distracted. I grew up on football not just because I played it, but because that was simply what people did on Sundays. Games were as much about spending time with friends and family as they were about the football. Go to church, come home, and watch the game. I'm not sure that the next generation is going to be quite as ingrained in that routine. Families seem to have a hard time just sitting around for an evening meal these days.

It's all speculative, but I think the NFL has a lot of things working against it right now.

I guess my point is that Roger and ownership is trying to transform the game precisely for the reasons you listed. Imagine a league where concussions are few to non-existent. Will mothers allow their kids to play? Probably. If it's flag football, then the hazard has been engineered out of it, thus increasing viewership and participation. I guess it can go both ways, but I do agree the NFL is in a bit of a jam, but it's still an 8 billion dollar a year industry, and that's nothing to sneeze at.

[Legacy User]

I guess my point is that Roger and ownership is trying to transform the game precisely for the reasons you listed. Imagine a league where concussions are few to non-existent. Will mothers allow their kids to play? Probably. If it's flag football, then the hazard has been engineered out of it, thus increasing viewership and participation. I guess it can go both ways, but I do agree the NFL is in a bit of a jam, but it's still an 8 billion dollar a year industry, and that's nothing to sneeze at.

For sure. Society is kind of pushing them in the direction they're going. And, ultimately, that may actually be a direction that people don't want it to go. The next 10-15 years are going to be very interesting, that's for sure.

[Nick79]

The flag fest that is the current NFL may explain why more Americans are becoming attracted to fuckin' soccer.

It absolutely is a factor for me. It's like a perfect storm, watching and coaching my daughter the last few years, the World Cup this year, I definately have gotten acclimated to watching the game. I have adopted a favorite MLS teams (DC United, also like Seattle), a favorite UEFA Champions League team (Olympiacos/Greece) in addition to USA and Greek National teams, I just can't find a reason to root for any English teams in the BPL?

Definate factors of superiority over the NFL...

1. Rules NEVER CHANGE!!!
2. Clock NEVER STOPS!!!
3. NO REPLAY REVIEWS, just accept the call on the field and LIVE WITH IT!!!!!!

Love #3 the most!

[Legacy User]

I'm sorry there are many reasons the NFL is still superior to soccer. For me at least.

[Nick79]

I'm sorry there are many reasons the NFL is still superior to soccer. For me at least.

Me too, but if there gets a point where they overdue review and increase penalties and rules much more, that could change.