Justin Fields in the pocket & other thoughts

[K_C_]

In other news, Rudolph appears to have an edge over the legendary Malik Willis to BACK-UP future HOFer Will Levis....Can't believe we let that guy go.

I think Rudolph was tired of being dicked around and wanted a chance somewhere else. That dude was the best QB in Latrobe two years ago and he was forced to be third string behind lil ken and Mitch. I'd want out too.

I mean, he's not a starter, but he's a better backup than ken or Mitch will ever be.

Let's see how Will Levis fares before we see if Mason is a starter or not. He did pretty well last season and without a poor decision on the Bills goal line, that ends up a very close game.

Levis has all the talent in the world but that doesn't mean he does anything with it. If he doesn't win, Rudolph will get a shot.

[Stosh-67]

On the fumbles, Dan Orlovsky broke down the fumbles and said it was Fields not adjusting to Herbig's movement. My guess is that it s a communication issue with Herbig or the new offense as Fields has been a QB long enough to know he must adjust when the center has to step.

https://x.com/danorlovsky7/status/18222 ... 7qD0xqd6aA

The Oline was a mess last night. Fautanu would not set his feet on pass sets. Jones, at LT looked very slow out of his stance. Not the same as RT. Much like KP not trusting the pocket, Fields had not much time in some cases. I think he made good throws in the 1st 2 series.

It is going to take a while for the Oline to jell. You could have Chuck Noll and Munchik there and it would still be an issue. Frazier needs to be starting. It was clear he was better than Herbig. They need to set a time limit on this Jones ego trip to the LT. I was impressed with McCormick and Frazier. Fautanu can get out there and block on the move. This will be a very good Oline but perhaps next year or at least after 6 games.

My son showed me this too.
Certainly looks like Fields is not moving to the left or right in unison with the center snap and flow of OL....
But straight back.
Otoh
Herbig almost looks to big and bulky at center.
Yes only
One game a few series.

I liked what I saw from Frazier.

[bradshaw2ben]

Hilarious opening statement and pic, TB

I thought the celebration of getting Fields was odd.

We need a creative mind who is willing to let Fields be what he is to get the most out of his skillset.

Can Justin Fields catch? I think he'd be better as Slash 2.0 than as a full-time QB.

He can't even catch a snap.

[bradshaw2ben]

In other news, Rudolph appears to have an edge over the legendary Malik Willis to BACK-UP future HOFer Will Levis....Can't believe we let that guy go.

Did you watch the game? Rudolph was hideous. If anything, Willis looked a little better. I know TEN's desire is to have an experieinced backup to mentor Levis, but there's no reason it has to be Rudolph. He was awful in the game, if that's the standard we're using.

[bradshaw2ben]

*Payton Wilson is a little rough around the edges, but man he stands out. He has a nose for the ball and movement skills that no one else on the D has. They will have a hard time keeping him off the field.

On the contrary, I think they'll find it hard to put Wilson on the field-- they have 13,840,000 reasons NOT to play him ahead of the guy who's starting at his position.

Elandon Roberts is the best run defender they have, so tough to oust a thumper for a sideline to sideline guy, and they used nickel so little. Besides, Roberts might have been the best cvoverage LB they had last year. Also, they mostly played base or dime, which would have Queen as the only backer.

So, maybe you'll see Wilson and Queen on 2nd and long or vs teams that don't run the ball/prevent situations.

[tbsteel]

*Payton Wilson is a little rough around the edges, but man he stands out. He has a nose for the ball and movement skills that no one else on the D has. They will have a hard time keeping him off the field.

On the contrary, I think they'll find it hard to put Wilson on the field-- they have 13,840,000 reasons NOT to play him ahead of the guy who's starting at his position.

Elandon Roberts is the best run defender they have, so tough to oust a thumper for a sideline to sideline guy, and they used nickel so little. Besides, Roberts might have been the best cvoverage LB they had last year. Also, they mostly played base or dime, which would have Queen as the only backer.

So, maybe you'll see Wilson and Queen on 2nd and long or vs teams that don't run the ball/prevent situations.

Steelers were in nickel over 35% of the time last year, which was pretty low compared to the rest of the league. The year before that they were at 47% (although that was when Watt was done for a good chunk of the year).

I think if Wilson consistently flashes they'll be more comfortable with him and Queen at nickel. Plus I'm expecting a 7-10 record this year and to be down more than usual, so I think Wilson will naturally get more work that way as well.

[bradshaw2ben]

*Payton Wilson is a little rough around the edges, but man he stands out. He has a nose for the ball and movement skills that no one else on the D has. They will have a hard time keeping him off the field.

On the contrary, I think they'll find it hard to put Wilson on the field-- they have 13,840,000 reasons NOT to play him ahead of the guy who's starting at his position.

Elandon Roberts is the best run defender they have, so tough to oust a thumper for a sideline to sideline guy, and they used nickel so little. Besides, Roberts might have been the best cvoverage LB they had last year. Also, they mostly played base or dime, which would have Queen as the only backer.

So, maybe you'll see Wilson and Queen on 2nd and long or vs teams that don't run the ball/prevent situations.

Steelers were in nickel over 35% of the time last year, which was pretty low compared to the rest of the league. The year before that they were at 47% (although that was when Watt was done for a good chunk of the year).

I think if Wilson consistently flashes they'll be more comfortable with him and Queen at nickel. Plus I'm expecting a 7-10 record this year and to be down more than usual, so I think Wilson will naturally get more work that way as well.

I mean-- thing is: every down is a passing down in the NFL if you're not living in the dark ages. Teams play nickel as their base, and to the Steelers that will mean Roberts and Queen. IDK... I'll be pleasantly surprised if they play Wilson a significant amount, especially before the bye. They almost NEVER promote rookies over veterans who are decent/good players until they absolutely have no choice.

[SteelerDayTrader]

It won’t be the WORST thing if Wilson spends a year or two on light duty and works hard developing an NFL physique.

I’d rather start him sooner but the Steelers aren’t gonna do that without being forced by injuries


If all goes well he will play out his rookie deal and get a relatively cheap C2 at the end of which the Steelers will move on

[stillthere]

Hilarious opening statement and pic, TB

I thought the celebration of getting Fields was odd.

We need a creative mind who is willing to let Fields be what he is to get the most out of his skillset.

Dude fumbles a lot. What was his hand size?

Nice.

[stillthere]

Hilarious opening statement and pic, TB

I thought the celebration of getting Fields was odd.

We need a creative mind who is willing to let Fields be what he is to get the most out of his skillset.

Can Justin Fields catch? I think he'd be better as Slash 2.0 than as a full-time QB.

He could field a kick-off and do the throwback across the field and if they try to prevent that pass he is one-on-one with a ST player.

[stillthere]

When/if old man Russ has to sit because of injuries, Justin will work himself into the Tomlin Doghouse pretty quick. Get ready for some Kyle.

Which means they should have kept Mason Rudolph.

[stillthere]

Russ somehow hurt his calf hitting a blocking sled.

Why was he hitting a blocking sled?

I keep hearing/reading this, but I have to believe that Russ wasn’t hitting blocking sled, but actually pushing/pulling a weight sled. Weight sleds are commonly used for strength and conditioning. Given that Russ is known to be a well conditioned athlete, it’s very likely that a weight sled is a normal part of his training regimen.
I know we tend to look for something to blame injuries on, like Roman Wilson and the jet sweep, but more often than not, injuries just happen.

Blocking sled. New conditioning coach and everyone on the team had to push the blocking sled. I am willing to bet the QBs will never be hitting the blocking sled again.

[Dan Smith--BYU]

Pickett looks like garbage for the Eagles. The Steelers fucked up not signing Mason earlier. Fields is a more athletic version of the Mitch fail.

[jebrick]

Pickett looks like garbage for the Eagles. The Steelers fucked up not signing Mason earlier. Fields is a more athletic version of the Mitch fail.

Saying awful does not encompass the wonder that is KP. In the 1st 1/2 last night, KP had 17 drop backs, 4 sacks. Completed 11 passes for 0.7 air yards/comp. He only threw the ball 10+ yards 4 times in the game. 0-4. 5.2 yards/attempt.

[zeke5123]

Pickett looks like garbage for the Eagles. The Steelers fucked up not signing Mason earlier. Fields is a more athletic version of the Mitch fail.

Saying awful does not encompass the wonder that is KP. In the 1st 1/2 last night, KP had 17 drop backs, 4 sacks. Completed 11 passes for 0.7 air yards/comp. He only threw the ball 10+ yards 4 times in the game. 0-4. 5.2 yards/attempt.

Honestly I don’t know how KC or Lake opine on anything football related after being so wrong re KP8.

[langer]

Kenny Football doesn’t have NFL talent.

Sideshow Bob Folds doesn’t have NFL talent.

Russ did, but then his talent for hitting fuckin blocking sleds isn’t NFL caliber.

What did MJG say Chas Noll told him about living on potential…

[PennyBacker]

Limited reps, but Fields ultimate success looks tied to his ability to control the middle of the field. If the linebackers are giving him running lanes, take 5-10 yards on the ground and get down. If the linebackers are creeped up and spying him, attack the middle of the field through the air. If the defense adjusts and begins to use a robber, flex arm strength and beat man coverage deep.

[Burgh Nike]

https://bvmsports.com/2024/08/16/kaboly ... d-running/

Kaboly was saying yesterday that too much running could prevent Fields from developing.

[PennyBacker]

Fields has to run. That is what separates him as an elite talent and got him drafted in the first round.

This cannot become Kordell Stewart 2.0. Stewart had running ability from the QB position well ahead of his era. And yet, the narrative grew that he was not ever going to be a real QB unless he could read a defense and go through his progressions. Two things he was not great at early in his career.

I say encourage Fields to run as much as possible - just hold onto the football!! Let him learn the other aspects of playing the position while prioritizing his best asset right now.

Yes, if he does not eventually learn how to read the defense better and pick up second and third options aside from running he will not be successful long term. But in no way should he be told or encouraged to not take what is there right now while he is learning. Fields does not need to become Stewart 2.0 in terms of telling him he is not a real QB unless he is reading the field like a veteran Roethlisberger could.

Encourage Fields to prioritize what he is good at, and hope for the rest to develop along the way.

[W&M_Steeler]

Fields has to run. That is what separates him as an elite talent and got him drafted in the first round.

This cannot become Kordell Stewart 2.0. Stewart had running ability from the QB position well ahead of his era. And yet, the narrative grew that he was not ever going to be a real QB unless he could read a defense and go through his progressions. Two things he was not great at early in his career.

I say encourage Fields to run as much as possible - just hold onto the football!! Let him learn the other aspects of playing the position while prioritizing his best asset right now.

Yes, if he does not eventually learn how to read the defense better and pick up second and third options aside from running he will not be successful long term. But in no way should he be told or encouraged to not take what is there right now while he is learning. Fields does not need to become Stewart 2.0 in terms of telling him he is not a real QB unless he is reading the field like a veteran Roethlisberger could.

Encourage Fields to prioritize what he is good at, and hope for the rest to develop along the way.

The Steelers aren't going to win anything running a 1930s offense. A QB who can run but isn't a very good passer is about as useful as a WR who can block but can't catch or run routes very well. Passing QBs with mobility (like Pat Mahomes or young Ben) can dominate. Running QBs who can't pass very well have never won anything and probably never will. If Fields can't significantly improve his traditional QB skills (and I doubt he can), then he's not going to be a viable starting QB in the NFL. There's a reason the Bears gave up on him.

As for Kordell- I disagree that he was "ahead of his era." I don't think he would be any more successful as a QB today than he was in the 1990s, for precisely the same reason as Fields. To be a successful starting QB, the QB must have those fundamental passing skills. If they don't then, then the team isn't going to win much of anything no matter how great of an athlete the QB is.

[the-other-burg]

Fields trusts his legs more than he trusts his arm and his brain. That can get you through college ball but it doesn't work out in the NFL.

Thats not something thats easy to unlearn.

There should be a metric that measures that for QB prospects - it would have saved many first round QB busts.

[langer]

Fields doesn’t have talent.

He isn’t a quarterback therefore he doesn’t have talent.

[anpsteel]

Fields has to run. That is what separates him as an elite talent and got him drafted in the first round.

This cannot become Kordell Stewart 2.0. Stewart had running ability from the QB position well ahead of his era. And yet, the narrative grew that he was not ever going to be a real QB unless he could read a defense and go through his progressions. Two things he was not great at early in his career.

I say encourage Fields to run as much as possible - just hold onto the football!! Let him learn the other aspects of playing the position while prioritizing his best asset right now.

Yes, if he does not eventually learn how to read the defense better and pick up second and third options aside from running he will not be successful long term. But in no way should he be told or encouraged to not take what is there right now while he is learning. Fields does not need to become Stewart 2.0 in terms of telling him he is not a real QB unless he is reading the field like a veteran Roethlisberger could.

Encourage Fields to prioritize what he is good at, and hope for the rest to develop along the way.

The Steelers aren't going to win anything running a 1930s offense. A QB who can run but isn't a very good passer is about as useful as a WR who can block but can't catch or run routes very well. Passing QBs with mobility (like Pat Mahomes or young Ben) can dominate. Running QBs who can't pass very well have never won anything and probably never will. If Fields can't significantly improve his traditional QB skills (and I doubt he can), then he's not going to be a viable starting QB in the NFL. There's a reason the Bears gave up on him.

As for Kordell- I disagree that he was "ahead of his era." I don't think he would be any more successful as a QB today than he was in the 1990s, for precisely the same reason as Fields. To be a successful starting QB, the QB must have those fundamental passing skills. If they don't then, then the team isn't going to win much of anything no matter how great of an athlete the QB is.

I disagree

Lamar Jackson won a league MVP, and consistently has the team winning games

Kordell is about the same size, an equal, possibly better, passer, and absolutely faster

[W&M_Steeler]

Fields has to run. That is what separates him as an elite talent and got him drafted in the first round.

This cannot become Kordell Stewart 2.0. Stewart had running ability from the QB position well ahead of his era. And yet, the narrative grew that he was not ever going to be a real QB unless he could read a defense and go through his progressions. Two things he was not great at early in his career.

I say encourage Fields to run as much as possible - just hold onto the football!! Let him learn the other aspects of playing the position while prioritizing his best asset right now.

Yes, if he does not eventually learn how to read the defense better and pick up second and third options aside from running he will not be successful long term. But in no way should he be told or encouraged to not take what is there right now while he is learning. Fields does not need to become Stewart 2.0 in terms of telling him he is not a real QB unless he is reading the field like a veteran Roethlisberger could.

Encourage Fields to prioritize what he is good at, and hope for the rest to develop along the way.

The Steelers aren't going to win anything running a 1930s offense. A QB who can run but isn't a very good passer is about as useful as a WR who can block but can't catch or run routes very well. Passing QBs with mobility (like Pat Mahomes or young Ben) can dominate. Running QBs who can't pass very well have never won anything and probably never will. If Fields can't significantly improve his traditional QB skills (and I doubt he can), then he's not going to be a viable starting QB in the NFL. There's a reason the Bears gave up on him.

As for Kordell- I disagree that he was "ahead of his era." I don't think he would be any more successful as a QB today than he was in the 1990s, for precisely the same reason as Fields. To be a successful starting QB, the QB must have those fundamental passing skills. If they don't then, then the team isn't going to win much of anything no matter how great of an athlete the QB is.

I disagree

Lamar Jackson won a league MVP, and consistently has the team winning games

Kordell is about the same size, an equal, possibly better, passer, and absolutely faster

Hard disagree with you on this one. Kordell wasn't on Lamar's level in any if those categories (other than maybe size I guess). On top of that, Kordell was a horrible choker. Kordell wouldn't be any more successful now than he was when he played, mediocre at best. He didn't have the tools to be a great modern QB, and thinking otherwise essentially amounts to viewing the past through rose-colored glasses.

Besides,Lamar hasn't won anything of significance himself. I think he's overrated. Lamar can't carry Mahomes' jock, but he puts up great regular season fantasy football numbers so he gets hyped.

[anpsteel]

The Steelers aren't going to win anything running a 1930s offense. A QB who can run but isn't a very good passer is about as useful as a WR who can block but can't catch or run routes very well. Passing QBs with mobility (like Pat Mahomes or young Ben) can dominate. Running QBs who can't pass very well have never won anything and probably never will. If Fields can't significantly improve his traditional QB skills (and I doubt he can), then he's not going to be a viable starting QB in the NFL. There's a reason the Bears gave up on him.

As for Kordell- I disagree that he was "ahead of his era." I don't think he would be any more successful as a QB today than he was in the 1990s, for precisely the same reason as Fields. To be a successful starting QB, the QB must have those fundamental passing skills. If they don't then, then the team isn't going to win much of anything no matter how great of an athlete the QB is.

I disagree

Lamar Jackson won a league MVP, and consistently has the team winning games

Kordell is about the same size, an equal, possibly better, passer, and absolutely faster

Hard disagree with you on this one. Kordell wasn't on Lamar's level in any if those categories (other than maybe size I guess). On top of that, Kordell was a horrible choker. Kordell wouldn't be any more successful now than he was when he played, mediocre at best. He didn't have the tools to be a great modern QB, and thinking otherwise essentially amounts to viewing the past through rose-colored glasses.

Besides,Lamar hasn't won anything of significance himself. I think he's overrated. Lamar can't carry Mahomes' jock, but he puts up great regular season fantasy football numbers so he gets hyped.

I don’t think you remember early Kordell, before Cowher decided he had to be made into a pocket QB, and fucked with his mechanics.

That made him a worse passer and destroyed his confidence

It was all over from there

[W&M_Steeler]

I disagree

Lamar Jackson won a league MVP, and consistently has the team winning games

Kordell is about the same size, an equal, possibly better, passer, and absolutely faster

Hard disagree with you on this one. Kordell wasn't on Lamar's level in any if those categories (other than maybe size I guess). On top of that, Kordell was a horrible choker. Kordell wouldn't be any more successful now than he was when he played, mediocre at best. He didn't have the tools to be a great modern QB, and thinking otherwise essentially amounts to viewing the past through rose-colored glasses.

Besides,Lamar hasn't won anything of significance himself. I think he's overrated. Lamar can't carry Mahomes' jock, but he puts up great regular season fantasy football numbers so he gets hyped.

I don’t think you remember early Kordell, before Cowher decided he had to be made into a pocket QB, and fucked with his mechanics.

That made him a worse passer and destroyed his confidence

It was all over from there

I'm not sure what you mean by "early career". I remember when he totally melted down in the 1997 AFCC game against the Broncos. Was he a good QB at some point before that? I don't think so.

Kordell would have had a great career as a WR who had some gadget play throws on occasion- like a better version of ARE. But Kordell preferred to be a not very good QB, so that's his legacy. I really don't see what you guys who wax nostalgic about Kordell are talking about. It certianly wasn't Cowher's fault Kordell wasn't good enough to be a better than mediocre NFL QB.

[anpsteel]

Hard disagree with you on this one. Kordell wasn't on Lamar's level in any if those categories (other than maybe size I guess). On top of that, Kordell was a horrible choker. Kordell wouldn't be any more successful now than he was when he played, mediocre at best. He didn't have the tools to be a great modern QB, and thinking otherwise essentially amounts to viewing the past through rose-colored glasses.

Besides,Lamar hasn't won anything of significance himself. I think he's overrated. Lamar can't carry Mahomes' jock, but he puts up great regular season fantasy football numbers so he gets hyped.

I don’t think you remember early Kordell, before Cowher decided he had to be made into a pocket QB, and fucked with his mechanics.

That made him a worse passer and destroyed his confidence

It was all over from there

I'm not sure what you mean by "early career". I remember when he totally melted down in the 1997 AFCC game against the Broncos. Was he a good QB at some point before that? I don't think so.

Kordell would have had a great career as a WR who had some gadget play throws on occasion- like a better version of ARE. But Kordell preferred to be a not very good QB, so that's his legacy. I really don't see what you guys who wax nostalgic about Kordell are talking about. It certianly wasn't Cowher's fault Kordell wasn't good enough to be a better than mediocre NFL QB.

He had a bunch of interceptions in the first half, running the drop back offense, and almost brought them back in the 2nd half when they let him be Kordell

[W&M_Steeler]

I don’t think you remember early Kordell, before Cowher decided he had to be made into a pocket QB, and fucked with his mechanics.

That made him a worse passer and destroyed his confidence

It was all over from there

I'm not sure what you mean by "early career". I remember when he totally melted down in the 1997 AFCC game against the Broncos. Was he a good QB at some point before that? I don't think so.

Kordell would have had a great career as a WR who had some gadget play throws on occasion- like a better version of ARE. But Kordell preferred to be a not very good QB, so that's his legacy. I really don't see what you guys who wax nostalgic about Kordell are talking about. It certianly wasn't Cowher's fault Kordell wasn't good enough to be a better than mediocre NFL QB.

He had a bunch of interceptions in the first half, running the drop back offense, and almost brought them back in the 2nd half when they let him be Kordell

That whole game was Kordell being Kordell. I don't buy the idea that Cowher is to blame when he sucked but Kordell gets all the credit when he did well, especially in the span of a single game. Sorry, but no amount of athletic talent can turn a crappy QB into a good one. Kordell just didn't have it. Kordell was a few tiers below guys like Lamar Jackson, Mike Vick, and Randall Cunningham. Justin Fields is a good modern day comp for him.

[drmalba]

.
Besides,Lamar hasn't won anything of significance himself. I think he's overrated. Lamar can't carry Mahomes' jock, but he puts up great regular season fantasy football numbers so he gets hyped.

If we had drafted Lamar Jackson - and we absolutely could have drafted him, had our conservative front office not already decided to overreach on a position of need - Tomlin might have another ring. It was without a doubt the biggest miss of the Kevin Colbert era. Anyone arguing anything otherwise is absolutely out of their mind.

[W&M_Steeler]

.
Besides,Lamar hasn't won anything of significance himself. I think he's overrated. Lamar can't carry Mahomes' jock, but he puts up great regular season fantasy football numbers so he gets hyped.

If we had drafted Lamar Jackson - and we absolutely could have drafted him, had our conservative front office not already decided to overreach on a position of need - Tomlin might have another ring. It was without a doubt the biggest miss of the Kevin Colbert era. Anyone arguing anything otherwise is absolutely out of their mind.

What makes you think Jackson would have been any more successful with the Steelers than he has been with the Ravens? Sure, he would have been a better pick than Terrell Edmunds, and he's a hell of a lot better than what the Steelers have at QB now, but he's not the best QB in the league and he wouldn't have gotten Tomlin over the hump.

Face it- if Tomlin couldn't win with the offenses of 2014-2018, he's not going to win with any offense. Maybe a rookie contract Mahomes could have gotten Tomlin over the hump in 2020, but I doubt it. We're cursed with a Marv Lewis / Jeff Fisher tier coach for life who the media fellates like he's a combo of Lombardi, Noll, Walsh, and Gibbs.

I also doubt that Lamar ever wins a Super Bowl at this point, and he might not even ever make one. The time on his athletic peak is limited. But that's a different conversation...